*WARNING: This podcast mentions suicide, sexual abuse & trauma and may be triggering
Episode Summary
In this episode, Lisa & Natasha explore the dangers of the automatic response "I'm fine," and how trauma reshapes honesty in everyday conversations, and practical ways to ask and answer "How are you?" with authenticity and care.
They discuss coping mechanisms like humor, the role of crisis resources such as 988, the meaning behind the semicolon tattoo, dealing with triggers, and how to create safer spaces for vulnerability and support.
Episode Sponsored by The HelpHUB™
Struggling with your mental health? Feeling lost, overwhelmed, or just alone? Well, you're not. Welcome to The HelpHUB™—your online destination for mental health resources, treatment options, content, and tools to help meet you exactly where you are in the moment. Visit TheHelpHUB.co to get started.
Key Topics
- The danger of saying 'I'm fine'
- Alternative ways to respond to 'How are you?'
- The role of trauma and triggers in communication
- The importance of honesty and vulnerability
- Using symbols like the semicolon for mental health awareness
Key Takeaways
- Saying 'I'm fine' often masks true feelings and can lead to emotional disconnection.
- Asking 'What's new with you?' encourages more genuine conversations.
- Sharing honest feelings can foster trust and support.
- Body language and microexpressions are key to understanding true emotions.
- Symbols like the semicolon serve as powerful reminders of resilience.
Chapters
00:00 The Dangers of Saying 'I'm Fine' 02:59 Navigating Vulnerability in Conversations 06:01 Coping Mechanisms: Humor and Trauma 08:50 The Importance of Honest Communication 12:08 Understanding Crisis and Support Systems 15:01 The Semicolon: A Symbol of Survival 18:00 Living with Trauma and Grief 19:37 Understanding Triggers and Personal Responsibility 22:15 Navigating Friendships and Communication 25:46 The Power of Shared Experiences 29:11 Redefining Responses to 'How Are You?' 36:28 Honesty in Conversations and Emotional Safety
Mental Health Resources
- If you or someone you know is struggling, please call 988 for help.
- The Survivors Podcast Website – https://thesurvivors.net/
- The HelpHUB™ – Mental health resources, tools, and support networks – https://www.thehelphub.co/
- National Domestic Violence Hotline – Call 1-800-799-SAFE (7223)
- Surviving: Finding Hope After Suicide Loss (Familius Books)
Follow & Connect With Us
📷 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/the_survivors_podcast
🔗 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-survivors-podcast
🎥 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheSurvivorsPodcastChannel
🎵📱TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thesurvivorspodcast
See you next week! In the meantime, keep surviving.
00:00:00 --> 00:00:04 Hey friends, before we dive into this week's episode, just a heads up.
00:00:05 --> 00:00:09 Our podcast talks about suicide, sexual abuse, and other trauma,
00:00:09 --> 00:00:13 and some of what you hear may be triggering. So please listen with care.
00:00:13 --> 00:00:18 This is The Survivors, real stories, raw conversations, and the truth about
00:00:18 --> 00:00:21 what it means to keep going after the hardest things.
00:00:21 --> 00:00:24 We're so glad you're here. Let's keep surviving together.
00:00:27 --> 00:00:30 So I really wish that we had hit record like 27 minutes ago,
00:00:30 --> 00:00:36 because the conversation that you and I just had ahead of this week's episode,
00:00:36 --> 00:00:39 like, sorry, everybody, it would have been gold.
00:00:40 --> 00:00:43 It just so happens that this was one of those moments where,
00:00:43 --> 00:00:46 like, life is imitating art, you know what I mean?
00:00:47 --> 00:00:53 Where real life is exactly, that's where we went in the last 27 minutes of our
00:00:53 --> 00:01:00 conversation. So we were talking about the whole idea of saying, I'm fine.
00:01:00 --> 00:01:03 Oh, how are you? Oh, my God, I'm fine. I'm so fine.
00:01:04 --> 00:01:10 And it is, I think, one of the most dangerous phrases that we use.
00:01:11 --> 00:01:14 You know, it sounds so harmless when you say it.
00:01:14 --> 00:01:18 It's like such an innocuous thing. It's polite and it's very buttoned up.
00:01:18 --> 00:01:21 It sounds like something you say to just kind of keep the conversation moving.
00:01:21 --> 00:01:23 But most of the time, it's such a lie.
00:01:24 --> 00:01:30 It's such a, and that's what you and I were talking about before we jumped in
00:01:30 --> 00:01:33 the studio about how often we
00:01:33 --> 00:01:38 say that in our lives and just what bullshit it really is in most cases.
00:01:38 --> 00:01:42 I think most of the time, and tell me if you agree with this,
00:01:42 --> 00:01:47 we say it because we just don't have the energy to say what's actually going
00:01:47 --> 00:01:48 on. Would you agree with that?
00:01:49 --> 00:01:53 Oh, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And one thing that I actually started saying,
00:01:53 --> 00:01:56 instead of saying that because I felt like it was a lie.
00:01:57 --> 00:02:02 Was three years ago, you know, after we had lost four family members in a short
00:02:02 --> 00:02:06 time, and I just couldn't even say, I'm okay, I'm fine, or whatever.
00:02:06 --> 00:02:08 I would say, I'm alive.
00:02:09 --> 00:02:12 Yeah. Okay. Fair. That's all I could give. Accurate.
00:02:12 --> 00:02:17 Yeah, because that was literally all I was, was a life.
00:02:17 --> 00:02:23 I had no emotion. If I did, it was too overwhelming. So that is all I could openly admit.
00:02:24 --> 00:02:28 Yeah, I think I'm going to stop asking people how they are, not because I don't
00:02:28 --> 00:02:31 care. I do care. Of course I care.
00:02:31 --> 00:02:38 But I feel like there's such an amazing amount of pressure to have the right answer,
00:02:38 --> 00:02:42 because people don't want to burden people in a lot of cases,
00:02:42 --> 00:02:47 or people don't want to be that honest and be vulnerable.
00:02:47 --> 00:02:52 And I think people just don't feel like they're safe enough in a lot of cases, too. And I agree.
00:02:52 --> 00:02:56 I agree. I actually stopped saying that to a lot of people.
00:02:56 --> 00:03:00 I, you know, I go through periods of time where I listen to a lot of podcasts.
00:03:00 --> 00:03:04 And I do listen to Mel Robbins a lot. And she had a conversation expert on and
00:03:04 --> 00:03:09 she said, the best thing you can ask somebody, especially if it's a coworker
00:03:09 --> 00:03:13 or somebody that you're more of an acquaintance with, what's new with you?
00:03:15 --> 00:03:20 Rather than how are you It leaves you know And that way it oftentimes will go
00:03:20 --> 00:03:22 off Into a really positive direction,
00:03:23 --> 00:03:28 Rather than any Mucky stuff that they might be in So that is something that
00:03:28 --> 00:03:31 I do Try to make a habit of What's new with you,
00:03:32 --> 00:03:35 Yeah, and I like that too, because I think at everyone's core,
00:03:36 --> 00:03:40 they do want to talk about themselves to some degree.
00:03:41 --> 00:03:44 And yeah, I think people want to share the good stuff, of course.
00:03:45 --> 00:03:51 And people, a lot of people, I think, definitely do want to share or need to
00:03:51 --> 00:03:56 share the not great stuff. And I think a lot of people just want to complain, too.
00:03:56 --> 00:04:01 And it may be that the thing they're not fine about is something that has absolutely
00:04:01 --> 00:04:04 nothing to do with them. It's just something in their life that they want to bitch about.
00:04:05 --> 00:04:08 So they're okay to talk about that. So I think that's a good approach.
00:04:08 --> 00:04:10 That's actually a really good approach.
00:04:11 --> 00:04:14 But it also takes the pressure off the question of how are you.
00:04:15 --> 00:04:19 Yeah, absolutely. That underlying pressure to respond to a question that you
00:04:19 --> 00:04:21 may not want to answer, you know?
00:04:22 --> 00:04:28 Yeah, I do. And I think that for a lot of people, especially people who have
00:04:28 --> 00:04:30 been through loss or trauma, which is,
00:04:31 --> 00:04:34 the community that we really try to talk to with this podcast,
00:04:34 --> 00:04:38 it becomes automatic, I think, in a lot of ways.
00:04:38 --> 00:04:41 Like, you don't even check in with yourself first. You just kind of blurt it
00:04:41 --> 00:04:44 out. You just say it. You just say, I'm fine, because it's just easy.
00:04:45 --> 00:04:48 It's just easier than kind of getting into it, than opening that,
00:04:48 --> 00:04:54 kind of opening up that door when you're not sure what you're going to say or
00:04:54 --> 00:04:56 how you're going to close the door again.
00:04:56 --> 00:04:59 And it's easier than trying to say something super complicated it's
00:04:59 --> 00:05:02 just a canned answer do you think it's more
00:05:02 --> 00:05:06 like in your opinion do you think it's more about protecting ourselves
00:05:06 --> 00:05:13 or protecting the other person from hearing the truth i think it's a bit of
00:05:13 --> 00:05:18 both i really do because as you mentioned before you don't have the energy to
00:05:18 --> 00:05:24 be truthful like 100 and for someone like me and probably a lot
00:05:24 --> 00:05:30 of our listeners that have experienced extreme trauma and dealing with some
00:05:30 --> 00:05:35 pretty dark thoughts on a daily basis like you can't say that to a co-worker
00:05:35 --> 00:05:40 you know like last night I really wasn't sure if I could.
00:05:40 --> 00:05:44 Wanted to wake up alive like how do you that's you
00:05:44 --> 00:05:47 i mean not to not to joke about it and i'm really not
00:05:47 --> 00:05:50 joking about it but it's like you don't slide that into casual conversation right
00:05:50 --> 00:05:54 right you know and i have with co-workers
00:05:54 --> 00:05:56 in a joking manner and they didn't like it they said
00:05:56 --> 00:05:59 it made them very uncomfortable and they were people i thought you know
00:05:59 --> 00:06:02 you know consider friends and things like that so i thought it was okay and
00:06:02 --> 00:06:07 they later told me that it made them really uncomfortable i was like okay noted suicidal
00:06:07 --> 00:06:10 ideation jokes are are off the
00:06:10 --> 00:06:12 table got it okay cool thanks and you
00:06:12 --> 00:06:16 know i did say thank you for letting me know because as we
00:06:16 --> 00:06:19 all know that is how i cope i make incredibly inappropriate
00:06:19 --> 00:06:22 jokes about death and suicide and it's just
00:06:22 --> 00:06:27 not everybody's bag and that's okay it isn't but when people understand especially
00:06:27 --> 00:06:29 if someone's listening right now thinking and they've never listened to the
00:06:29 --> 00:06:32 pod before and they're listening like oh my god she she makes inappropriate
00:06:32 --> 00:06:38 jokes about suicide and and ideation friends she She has survived three of her
00:06:38 --> 00:06:40 own attempts on her own life,
00:06:40 --> 00:06:43 has lost five brothers to suicide.
00:06:43 --> 00:06:49 And in a lot of cases with a lot of survivors of trauma, especially suicide
00:06:49 --> 00:06:54 loss, people just cope in the ways that they cope.
00:06:54 --> 00:06:58 And some people in certain situations cope through humor.
00:06:58 --> 00:07:05 And it's the only way to navigate it because it's just too heavy.
00:07:05 --> 00:07:09 Yeah, and we were at my daughter's softball game last night,
00:07:09 --> 00:07:11 and one of the parents that I'm really good friends with.
00:07:12 --> 00:07:15 You know, again, this is people that I've known for only a couple of months,
00:07:15 --> 00:07:20 it's a new season, and I jokingly said something.
00:07:20 --> 00:07:23 Oh boy, and what did you say?
00:07:23 --> 00:07:30 I'm trying to remember exactly what I said And I said well And then I just casually
00:07:30 --> 00:07:32 Well I mean I've got five brothers that are off to themselves And they were
00:07:32 --> 00:07:35 like oh god They were like what,
00:07:36 --> 00:07:43 And I was like, it's okay, I've got spares. Oh, my God. Yeah, that's a tough one.
00:07:46 --> 00:07:53 That's a rough one. And they literally choked. They were like, oh, my God, I'm so sorry.
00:07:53 --> 00:07:59 And I was like, oh, I'm good. And I just carried on like it was just a normal choke.
00:08:00 --> 00:08:06 Yeah, it's hard because you can't ever account for how something's going to land on someone else.
00:08:07 --> 00:08:15 And look, it's your trauma. So that's the way, in a lot of ways, that you cope with it.
00:08:15 --> 00:08:20 I do totally understand being on the receiving end and having somebody be like,
00:08:20 --> 00:08:27 what the hell is this woman doing? How can this person be joking around?
00:08:27 --> 00:08:30 But truth is, it's it's
00:08:30 --> 00:08:33 you know it's your own trauma and the way
00:08:33 --> 00:08:38 that you navigate it is the way that you navigate it and if somebody if somebody
00:08:38 --> 00:08:41 finds it to be too much then they have to do what those co-workers said which
00:08:41 --> 00:08:45 is like hey that's I can't take that and that's okay and that's a mutual respect
00:08:45 --> 00:08:52 and that's actually I think good for them for saying I I'm not okay with that just like,
00:08:53 --> 00:08:57 You have every right to be like, this is what, this is what I'm doing.
00:08:57 --> 00:08:59 This is how I sometimes need to let it out.
00:09:00 --> 00:09:06 And people have to just accept or reserve the right to change the conversation.
00:09:07 --> 00:09:11 And I do, I do appreciate them being honest with me.
00:09:11 --> 00:09:15 And, and the person, the, the couple that I was talking to last night were,
00:09:15 --> 00:09:20 they, you know, they were very sympathetic and things like, I think it just
00:09:20 --> 00:09:22 shocked them, but I think they were okay with it.
00:09:22 --> 00:09:27 And, you know, so you just have to fill each person, you know,
00:09:27 --> 00:09:30 or group of people out and how they respond to it.
00:09:31 --> 00:09:35 But, you know, in getting back to what we were originally talking about is,
00:09:35 --> 00:09:38 you know, when we're saying we're fine, but we're actually not,
00:09:38 --> 00:09:40 and how does that land in...
00:09:40 --> 00:09:46 For us. So how do we convey that message without, A, putting ourselves in an
00:09:46 --> 00:09:51 uncomfortable position, whether it's with co-workers or people that acquaintances
00:09:51 --> 00:09:52 that we don't know very well,
00:09:53 --> 00:09:58 or in what you and I had talked about offline, where I was going through a difficult,
00:09:58 --> 00:10:03 had a difficult day a couple of days ago, and rather than be a burden,
00:10:03 --> 00:10:07 what I felt like was being a burden to you, I chose not to pick up the phone
00:10:07 --> 00:10:09 call and say, hey, Lisa, I need to talk.
00:10:09 --> 00:10:11 Because we do have that kind of a relationship.
00:10:12 --> 00:10:19 But so it's a fine line of realizing I needed support, but I didn't,
00:10:19 --> 00:10:22 those old childhood wounds of not wanting to be a burden.
00:10:24 --> 00:10:30 Ultimately outweighed my need for needing to have a conversation and some support from you.
00:10:31 --> 00:10:35 Yeah, and it's hard because, you know, we can't be there to support someone
00:10:35 --> 00:10:38 when we don't know they're hurting. So there's that whole piece of it.
00:10:39 --> 00:10:42 I think there has to be a shared responsibility.
00:10:42 --> 00:10:47 Like my own reaction to what you're saying is that there has to be a shared responsibility.
00:10:47 --> 00:10:51 Like if it's a relationship that you believe is a close one,
00:10:51 --> 00:10:55 is one that you can trust, a place where you feel safe sharing.
00:10:55 --> 00:11:00 Just because you feel safe with a person sharing doesn't necessarily mean the
00:11:00 --> 00:11:03 person is going to be equipped or willing to listen.
00:11:03 --> 00:11:07 So that's the risk that you run because you don't want to get super vulnerable
00:11:07 --> 00:11:15 and really be honest with the how are you really question and have someone say, well, I'm sorry,
00:11:16 --> 00:11:20 I can't hear the answer to that right now. I can't support that.
00:11:21 --> 00:11:25 I think we have to have a little bit of blind faith. I think you have to do
00:11:25 --> 00:11:31 your part and say, look, I'm really not okay. I really do need someone. Do you think...
00:11:32 --> 00:11:35 You can support me in this moment.
00:11:35 --> 00:11:42 And then it's my job as your friend to say, and it's anybody's job as the person
00:11:42 --> 00:11:45 being asked that question, to just do a quick inventory and say,
00:11:46 --> 00:11:48 yeah, you know what, I do want to be there for you.
00:11:49 --> 00:11:53 I'm going to try and show up the best that I can. I think that's what any of us can do.
00:11:53 --> 00:11:59 When someone's really willing to answer the how are you question fully and not
00:11:59 --> 00:12:01 just give that canned, I'm fine and move on.
00:12:02 --> 00:12:07 I think we have to really give ourselves the ability to say,
00:12:08 --> 00:12:11 I'm not sure how much I can do for you.
00:12:12 --> 00:12:14 I'm not sure if I can do more than just sit and listen to you,
00:12:15 --> 00:12:17 but I will do what's in my capacity to do.
00:12:18 --> 00:12:23 And if that works for you, then you go ahead and have the conversation.
00:12:23 --> 00:12:27 And if it doesn't work for everybody involved, you find a different place to
00:12:27 --> 00:12:33 have a conversation. And maybe in that case, if I'm not available to have it
00:12:33 --> 00:12:37 and you need it and someone else isn't there, you call 988.
00:12:37 --> 00:12:42 You call a crisis line. You reach out to a therapist.
00:12:42 --> 00:12:46 You try and connect with a support group.
00:12:46 --> 00:12:50 You find another way to answer that question honestly.
00:12:51 --> 00:12:54 I think that's the best that any of us can really ever do. You know what is
00:12:54 --> 00:12:57 so interesting is how much we talk about 988,
00:12:58 --> 00:13:05 and yet whenever I am actually in crisis, I never think of it.
00:13:05 --> 00:13:07 It is not my go-to thought. Yeah.
00:13:08 --> 00:13:13 So, all right. I'm glad we're having this conversation because I think a lot
00:13:13 --> 00:13:14 of people end up having this conversation.
00:13:15 --> 00:13:17 I think, number one, and we've talked about this on the pod before,
00:13:17 --> 00:13:22 I think a lot of people don't think that way because they believe,
00:13:22 --> 00:13:29 they still believe that 988 is reserved for someone who is actively suicidal.
00:13:29 --> 00:13:33 Right. I do believe that. I've heard that so many times.
00:13:33 --> 00:13:38 I mean, I'm a crisis lifeline counselor, so I hear these things all the time
00:13:38 --> 00:13:43 from people who were like, I wasn't going to call, I wasn't going to call, and I finally did.
00:13:43 --> 00:13:46 I still feel funny about calling because I'm not suicidal. And I'm like,
00:13:47 --> 00:13:49 well, you don't have to be suicidal to be calling a crisis lifeline.
00:13:49 --> 00:13:54 I mean, people get – there's a misinterpretation because the word crisis and
00:13:54 --> 00:13:59 the word suicide are both in the name, and people focus on suicide hotline.
00:13:59 --> 00:14:03 They don't think, okay, it's also something else. It's also something like,
00:14:03 --> 00:14:05 I'm having a really bad day at work. I need to talk to someone.
00:14:05 --> 00:14:09 There's no one available. I'm in a bad headspace. Well, that is a crisis.
00:14:09 --> 00:14:11 I just got let go from my job.
00:14:13 --> 00:14:22 Or my boyfriend left me or whatever it is that's a crisis,
00:14:22 --> 00:14:27 people just tend to overlook the fact that that's half of the reason why people
00:14:27 --> 00:14:29 use lifelines is because they're just in a crisis.
00:14:30 --> 00:14:32 You don't have to be suicidal. So I think that's why it slides off people's
00:14:32 --> 00:14:35 radar a lot. Let me ask you this.
00:14:36 --> 00:14:43 If you were not fine and I wasn't there or your husband George wasn't there, somebody wasn't there.
00:14:45 --> 00:14:48 Now that I'm saying Crisis Lifeline and it's top of mind, do you think you would call?
00:14:50 --> 00:14:54 Yeah if but if i would remember i think i might should get a tattoo,
00:14:55 --> 00:14:58 i don't have any tattoos okay i
00:14:58 --> 00:15:02 i'm thinking honestly a friend of mine had talked about going getting tattoos
00:15:02 --> 00:15:08 for our birthdays this year and you the semicolon is a you know a kind of like
00:15:08 --> 00:15:12 a world and rennet not renowned where you know it's kind of a symbol for people
00:15:12 --> 00:15:15 that have attempted suicide and survived. Can I tell you a secret?
00:15:16 --> 00:15:25 I'm intimately aware of the suicide, kind of the appropriated suicide logo that
00:15:25 --> 00:15:28 is the semicolon. It was my first tattoo.
00:15:28 --> 00:15:32 Was it really? It was my first tattoo for my father.
00:15:32 --> 00:15:38 Yep. Oh my God. I have it. You can't see it, obviously, but I have it right down here on my hip.
00:15:38 --> 00:15:42 And it was the very first tattoo that I ever got.
00:15:43 --> 00:15:46 In memory and acknowledgement of him.
00:15:46 --> 00:15:52 And just to let people understand why the mental health community has appropriated
00:15:52 --> 00:15:53 the semicolon as a tattoo.
00:15:53 --> 00:15:57 If you think about what a semicolon represents in terms of punctuation,
00:15:57 --> 00:16:03 like what it's used for, it's used, obviously, in a sentence when there's a
00:16:03 --> 00:16:06 continuation of the story. There's more to the story.
00:16:06 --> 00:16:10 So it's obviously, you know, I'm also a writer.
00:16:10 --> 00:16:13 So, you know, in terms of writing, there's more to your story.
00:16:13 --> 00:16:16 And then in terms of mental health and suicide awareness and prevention,
00:16:16 --> 00:16:20 it's a reminder that you don't have to go.
00:16:20 --> 00:16:25 You can stay because there's more to your story. It's not over yet. So I'd.
00:16:26 --> 00:16:29 Love the you know the double meaning for me
00:16:29 --> 00:16:32 in particular but i i love it as a symbol so
00:16:32 --> 00:16:35 when you're thinking about getting that or you're just going to go go full
00:16:35 --> 00:16:39 monty and get 988 across your chest i just
00:16:39 --> 00:16:47 do it no i mean i actually have on my left wrist a scar from a knife on one
00:16:47 --> 00:16:53 of my attempts okay that's like right over the vein because i even had enough
00:16:53 --> 00:16:56 forethought to try to go for the vein.
00:16:57 --> 00:17:01 Fortunately, the knife was not sharp enough to go that deep.
00:17:01 --> 00:17:05 Anyway, so I had a thought to get the semicolon over that scar.
00:17:06 --> 00:17:08 I think that's a beautiful thought. I love it.
00:17:09 --> 00:17:15 And maybe that semicolon will also be a reminder for 988.
00:17:15 --> 00:17:19 So we give that a try. I mean, all I can do is go get the tattoo and wait for
00:17:19 --> 00:17:21 myself to be in crisis again,
00:17:21 --> 00:17:24 because we all know it's gonna happen again hey look you
00:17:24 --> 00:17:27 know life's not a straight line that's why we're that's why
00:17:27 --> 00:17:30 we're talking here every week you know and it's interesting because
00:17:30 --> 00:17:34 i came across a video on social media earlier today
00:17:34 --> 00:17:36 and it said at some point in your life you're
00:17:36 --> 00:17:40 gonna have to stop identifying with your trauma
00:17:40 --> 00:17:43 okay i don't necessarily agree
00:17:43 --> 00:17:46 with that like identifying with like your trauma is your
00:17:46 --> 00:17:49 trauma right or you know basically
00:17:49 --> 00:17:53 just like being that that's what and who you are you
00:17:53 --> 00:17:58 know who you are right and i had to think i just wasn't sure how i felt about
00:17:58 --> 00:18:05 it because it's like first you know again i don't i don't like to be like i
00:18:05 --> 00:18:11 hold the the crown for having a lot of trauma but god damn there's a lot you
00:18:11 --> 00:18:13 are up there yeah you are up there on the.
00:18:16 --> 00:18:22 I'm sorry, but I don't, I just, I can't just forget about it all and just be
00:18:22 --> 00:18:25 like, okay, I'm over it now.
00:18:25 --> 00:18:30 Moving on. It's just not going to happen. That is something that's ever present
00:18:30 --> 00:18:33 in my mind every day. And it's like grief.
00:18:34 --> 00:18:40 Like we don't just stop grieving ever. It's very much like a scar.
00:18:40 --> 00:18:47 It's there. It may not hurt in the same way that it did When the You know I'm
00:18:47 --> 00:18:52 talking injury Obviously when we talk scars When the injury happened Or in the
00:18:52 --> 00:18:57 case of grief When the death or the loss really happened But it's.
00:18:58 --> 00:19:05 You know, you still feel those twangs of pain, the emotional pain attached to it.
00:19:06 --> 00:19:09 You still, the memory of it is still very real. You run your finger over a scar
00:19:09 --> 00:19:12 and you know that something happened there and it's a reminder.
00:19:13 --> 00:19:18 And that's in a lot of ways that I think is what grief kind of becomes over
00:19:18 --> 00:19:24 time in some ways when it gets more muted and we can spend more time with it.
00:19:24 --> 00:19:33 But at no time do I think any of us should forget about the losses or the traumas
00:19:33 --> 00:19:40 because they are so much of what defines where we've been and who we are and
00:19:40 --> 00:19:42 how we choose to live and show up in the world.
00:19:42 --> 00:19:45 So, yeah, I can see why a lot would come up for you.
00:19:46 --> 00:19:51 Looking for mental health resources that actually fit who you are and where you come from?
00:19:51 --> 00:19:54 Then you need to check out the Help Hub. it's not
00:19:54 --> 00:19:58 another generic wellness site it's a free inclusive online
00:19:58 --> 00:20:01 platform built for real people living real
00:20:01 --> 00:20:05 lives people managing stress anxiety depression
00:20:05 --> 00:20:11 trauma and abuse grief or suicide loss at the help hub you'll find the resources
00:20:11 --> 00:20:16 tools treatment options and trauma informed content you need in the moment without
00:20:16 --> 00:20:22 having to dig through endless tabs or start from scratch it's your place to land to take a breath,
00:20:23 --> 00:20:27 and to find exactly what you need when you need it most. Visit thehelphub.co,
00:20:27 --> 00:20:30 where the help you need is just a click away.
00:20:35 --> 00:20:39 Yeah, when you saw that. And also, your triggers.
00:20:39 --> 00:20:48 Granted, we all have our own triggers, but triggers also take you back to a traumatic event.
00:20:48 --> 00:20:53 You know, and I don't know why, again, whenever my nervous system gets overwhelmed,
00:20:54 --> 00:21:00 I kind of go back to being the childhood, you know, little Natasha that didn't
00:21:00 --> 00:21:01 have any control of her situation.
00:21:01 --> 00:21:08 But I guess I'm noticing my triggers a lot more you know recently I was hanging
00:21:08 --> 00:21:12 out with somebody and when I make that and she does it to everybody it's not
00:21:12 --> 00:21:18 just me but when you make her laugh really hard she's like she's laughs laughs
00:21:18 --> 00:21:19 laughs and she's like you're so stupid.
00:21:21 --> 00:21:25 To any normal person that shouldn't bother
00:21:25 --> 00:21:28 them right yeah yeah but I grew
00:21:28 --> 00:21:31 up in a home where my mother constantly told
00:21:31 --> 00:21:36 me and reminded me and my siblings of how stupid and retarded that and she used
00:21:36 --> 00:21:45 that word oh damn all the time is that word yes yes shit yes and so yeah and
00:21:45 --> 00:21:50 so i'm like i had to take a step back and i was like okay my triggers are my responsibility,
00:21:52 --> 00:21:56 and because i you know i i observed her doing it with somebody else i had made
00:21:56 --> 00:21:58 her laugh i'm like okay, it's just something she does.
00:21:59 --> 00:22:03 I get to be responsible for that triggering me. So what do I get to do about it?
00:22:04 --> 00:22:07 Did you say something to her? I didn't. Would you again?
00:22:08 --> 00:22:12 I don't know. If the same thing happened? Again, I'm meeting a lot of new people,
00:22:12 --> 00:22:14 you know, in the last couple of months.
00:22:14 --> 00:22:18 And so it's like, and this is a person that I do want to, you know,
00:22:19 --> 00:22:22 pursue having a good friendship with because I think she's an awesome person.
00:22:23 --> 00:22:27 And so it's like. Maybe all the more reason to have a heart to heart or just
00:22:27 --> 00:22:33 to kind of casually say, hey, you know, that had an effect on me.
00:22:33 --> 00:22:35 And maybe explain why, and then she'll know.
00:22:36 --> 00:22:41 But we're at the point where, you know, when people say your triggers are your
00:22:41 --> 00:22:43 responsibility, not the world's.
00:22:45 --> 00:22:51 No, but part, okay, I understand why somebody says that, but if you're being
00:22:51 --> 00:22:55 triggered by something around you or someone around you,
00:22:55 --> 00:23:00 you reserve the right to call it out and say, hey, listen, it's all what you say.
00:23:00 --> 00:23:04 It's not what you say, it's how you say it. How you say it. And I think in a
00:23:04 --> 00:23:10 lot of cases, it is, I mean, you and I were talking about this a little while ago, just the two of us,
00:23:10 --> 00:23:15 about you can't control what other people say or do or think or how they behave,
00:23:15 --> 00:23:21 but you can absolutely control how you react to it and respond to it.
00:23:21 --> 00:23:24 So it is within your right to
00:23:24 --> 00:23:27 be able to have a mature conversation with someone especially
00:23:27 --> 00:23:29 somebody who you consider to be a friend or you want to be a better
00:23:29 --> 00:23:33 friend and just say hey listen like I just want to let you know that that's
00:23:33 --> 00:23:36 how something landed on me and this is why and it's
00:23:36 --> 00:23:42 not because you're doing anything wrong I'm I'm just making you aware it's maybe
00:23:42 --> 00:23:48 just a case of awareness and also I guess that opens up the door for to let
00:23:48 --> 00:23:56 me know if depending on how she responds if it's even worth pursuing a friendship with this person.
00:23:56 --> 00:24:01 Because if they're not able to take stock in that and adjust or whatever and.
00:24:02 --> 00:24:05 And they're just like, oh, well, whatever, and they just brush it off,
00:24:05 --> 00:24:08 and they're not considerate, then that, I guess, would let me know that, hey,
00:24:09 --> 00:24:14 it's not really worth my time to pursue a friendship with somebody that is going
00:24:14 --> 00:24:18 to, you know, dismiss something like that. See? You just solved your own problem.
00:24:19 --> 00:24:22 Oh, see, this is— It's almost like free therapy in here, isn't it?
00:24:22 --> 00:24:26 It's fantastic. Does anybody else out there feel like they get free therapy with Lisa?
00:24:27 --> 00:24:32 I don't know about that. I do not know about that. I am not qualified to tell
00:24:32 --> 00:24:35 anyone to do anything. No, I know. I know that.
00:24:36 --> 00:24:41 I just, you know, you're just a wonderful person and I really enjoy talking with you.
00:24:41 --> 00:24:47 And I feel so incredibly blessed that we get to do something that we literally
00:24:47 --> 00:24:51 just get to sit here and have conversations about the most random shit.
00:24:52 --> 00:24:54 And hopefully it resonates with people.
00:24:55 --> 00:24:59 And now, and I'm going to toot our own horn now because you just told me these stats.
00:24:59 --> 00:25:03 We are now our podcast is now in all 50 states
00:25:03 --> 00:25:06 and 40 plus countries yes ma'am
00:25:06 --> 00:25:09 i mean talk about blow your mind
00:25:09 --> 00:25:14 i never in a million years thought that people from around the world would want
00:25:14 --> 00:25:20 to listen to what we had to say well they are because the truth of it is everybody
00:25:20 --> 00:25:25 around the world doesn't matter where you are or what kind of a life you lead
00:25:25 --> 00:25:27 so much of what we talk about.
00:25:27 --> 00:25:30 These are the things that everybody's going through just under a different roof,
00:25:30 --> 00:25:34 in my opinion, or spoken in a different language or you know what I mean?
00:25:34 --> 00:25:37 Or it's all it's all relative.
00:25:38 --> 00:25:40 And and we're just calling out. We're just talking about it.
00:25:40 --> 00:25:45 And I think what makes it so much more powerful is the lived experience.
00:25:45 --> 00:25:48 Like we are both extraordinarily trauma informed.
00:25:48 --> 00:25:51 You know, I'm a three-time suicide loss survivor, not to mention the fact that
00:25:51 --> 00:25:57 I've lost more people than I can count on my hands and toes from cancer or accidents
00:25:57 --> 00:26:00 or other types of deaths or illnesses.
00:26:00 --> 00:26:06 And you, as we've talked about, have had your own unfortunate experience with
00:26:06 --> 00:26:14 sexual abuse by your brother and, you know, living in a narcissistic home, domestic abuse.
00:26:14 --> 00:26:17 My god suicide losses
00:26:17 --> 00:26:21 and attempts so together we have
00:26:21 --> 00:26:24 such deep pool of lived
00:26:24 --> 00:26:27 experience to draw from and it's
00:26:27 --> 00:26:31 it's not where you know we don't have any letters after our names we you know
00:26:31 --> 00:26:35 we're not certified qualified in that way academically to be talking about any
00:26:35 --> 00:26:40 of this except for the fact that we have a lifetime's worth of experience dealing
00:26:40 --> 00:26:46 with all of these things and so and I honestly oh my god my dog I don't know if you can hear.
00:26:47 --> 00:26:55 Mabel is barking her ever loving head off we have an incredibly deep,
00:26:56 --> 00:27:01 deep reservoir of experience. And it's real life.
00:27:01 --> 00:27:08 It's real life. And we're just calling it out and sharing it and doing it in
00:27:08 --> 00:27:12 the hopes that some people find those points of connection and can say they
00:27:12 --> 00:27:15 get it and they feel it and they experience it.
00:27:15 --> 00:27:19 And the more we do that, the more other people feel like they have the freedom
00:27:19 --> 00:27:22 to do the same in their own life. It's as simple as that.
00:27:22 --> 00:27:25 That is what we're doing and why we're here. But I love you too, for the record.
00:27:26 --> 00:27:30 And we forgot to mention that today's episode is season, or excuse me,
00:27:30 --> 00:27:33 season five episode. That's right. That's right.
00:27:33 --> 00:27:38 This is the opening of season five, our official third season together. Mm-hmm.
00:27:38 --> 00:27:42 And just going by. So I just can't believe how fast it's going by.
00:27:43 --> 00:27:45 Yeah, I know. Yeah, I know.
00:27:46 --> 00:27:51 And I'm really grateful. I just want everybody out there to know how grateful
00:27:51 --> 00:27:58 and blessed I am. And I don't, I don't take, because time is our most precious resource.
00:27:58 --> 00:28:03 It is. And you taking the time to listen to Lisa and I, and,
00:28:03 --> 00:28:05 you know, the guests that we are now having on,
00:28:05 --> 00:28:11 and just know that it is something that I take very seriously and means the
00:28:11 --> 00:28:14 absolute world to me that you give your time to us.
00:28:15 --> 00:28:18 Well, I feel the same way. I'm glad you said that. I'm very glad that you reminded
00:28:18 --> 00:28:20 me that it's season five.
00:28:20 --> 00:28:23 I know well we just jumped right in like I know
00:28:23 --> 00:28:27 the longer we do this the more comfortable I
00:28:27 --> 00:28:31 know I am getting I I felt like those I feel
00:28:31 --> 00:28:36 like I was really stiff first the it would have been season three you weren't
00:28:36 --> 00:28:40 stiff so everybody go back listen to season three convince her she wasn't stiff
00:28:40 --> 00:28:45 you were I I thought no I mean I mean for context and we're getting we're so
00:28:45 --> 00:28:49 far off track of this episode it's all right we're gonna I'm gonna bring it right back but.
00:28:49 --> 00:28:57 When you started, people have to understand that you had never done any real podcasting.
00:28:57 --> 00:29:01 I think you had done one episode on someone else's podcast, which is the person,
00:29:02 --> 00:29:05 Joe Massa, who put us together from My Suicide Story.
00:29:05 --> 00:29:09 And you had only been a guest once on a podcast.
00:29:10 --> 00:29:15 And you and I met, and I was like, hey, I'm making some changes to the podcast,
00:29:16 --> 00:29:21 and I'm looking for a new co-host. and you didn't even let the sentence come out of my mouth.
00:29:21 --> 00:29:24 And you said, yep, I'm in.
00:29:24 --> 00:29:29 And you dove right in, head first, deep end. And you have been crushing it ever
00:29:29 --> 00:29:32 since. So I don't care what you say. You're killing it.
00:29:33 --> 00:29:35 Absolutely killing it. All right. I'm going to bring it back around.
00:29:35 --> 00:29:36 I'm bringing it back around right now.
00:29:36 --> 00:29:42 So, all right. We're talking about saying the bullshit line, I'm fine.
00:29:42 --> 00:29:46 Every single time someone asks, how are you?
00:29:46 --> 00:29:52 Okay, there's a point, I believe, this is just me, where I think saying I'm
00:29:52 --> 00:29:57 fine stops being protective and starts becoming something else.
00:29:58 --> 00:29:59 I just feel like that.
00:30:00 --> 00:30:05 And I think, what do you think it looks like for you?
00:30:05 --> 00:30:09 Like when when things
00:30:09 --> 00:30:17 start to come out when you when someone says to you how are you and you start
00:30:17 --> 00:30:28 to say i'm fine do you ever do you ever like really consciously just let it all go.
00:30:29 --> 00:30:33 Depends on the person. Yeah, okay. I have to gauge the person.
00:30:34 --> 00:30:39 But I really, I don't, I actually don't use that response anymore. I'm fine.
00:30:39 --> 00:30:42 I just stick with I'm alive. I'm okay.
00:30:43 --> 00:30:48 I'm good. Or I'm great. Happy to be here. It just depends on what my mood is
00:30:48 --> 00:30:49 or how I'm feeling in the moment.
00:30:50 --> 00:30:55 But try something else on for size and see what works for you rather than the
00:30:55 --> 00:30:58 same bullshit answer of I'm fine.
00:31:00 --> 00:31:06 Because pretending to be okay when you're not is, oh, that's such a weight to carry.
00:31:07 --> 00:31:11 And so I would encourage each person out there to find a different way to respond
00:31:11 --> 00:31:16 to that answer, that question honestly, but also in a way that you feel safe to do so.
00:31:16 --> 00:31:20 Yeah, I agree with that. And I think it goes back to the whole cultural phenomenon
00:31:20 --> 00:31:25 of it's okay to not be okay, which has become like the world's mantra right now.
00:31:25 --> 00:31:32 And I love that. I really do love that. But I don't think enough people actually buy into that.
00:31:32 --> 00:31:37 I think it's something that people like to say, but I think fewer people actually act on it.
00:31:37 --> 00:31:43 I think that what you're saying, which is to find something else to say that
00:31:43 --> 00:31:47 kind of lets people know that things aren't great without maybe just opening
00:31:47 --> 00:31:49 up all the floodgates. Maybe you just say, I'm having a hard time, actually.
00:31:50 --> 00:31:52 And you don't worry about how that's going to land on someone.
00:31:53 --> 00:31:57 And you really just leave it up to the person. By saying that,
00:31:57 --> 00:32:00 it gives someone kind of an in or an out.
00:32:00 --> 00:32:04 They can either say something in response like, I'm really sorry,
00:32:04 --> 00:32:05 things are really hard for you.
00:32:06 --> 00:32:10 And then kind of leave it at that if they're not really capable of taking it
00:32:10 --> 00:32:14 on and listening. or someone can dive right in and say, oh, wow,
00:32:15 --> 00:32:18 like you're really having a hard time. I'm so sorry. What's going on?
00:32:18 --> 00:32:26 Tell me about it. I think that's a really safe way of kind of testing those
00:32:26 --> 00:32:32 waters a little bit to see what someone's going to say without having to open
00:32:32 --> 00:32:34 up. You know what I mean? Right.
00:32:35 --> 00:32:43 You know, what has helped you feel safe enough to actually say I'm not okay when someone asks you?
00:32:43 --> 00:32:46 Like you said, obviously, it depends on who you're talking to in the context and the situation.
00:32:47 --> 00:32:52 But, like, what will someone say to make you feel safe enough to be like,
00:32:52 --> 00:32:53 no, I'm actually not okay?
00:32:53 --> 00:32:58 It's their body language. Really? Okay. Interesting. I mean,
00:32:58 --> 00:33:05 because 80% of what we say is actually body language and it's only 20% what comes out of our mouth.
00:33:06 --> 00:33:08 And, you know, again, I...
00:33:10 --> 00:33:16 Growing up the way I did, and hypervigilance is real, and I read body language like I read books.
00:33:17 --> 00:33:26 I pick up on every single micro expression that people have with body language, facial expressions.
00:33:27 --> 00:33:31 Have you ever, sorry, again, I'm getting off topic. Hi, welcome to Natasha's
00:33:31 --> 00:33:34 ADHD Brain. It's okay. Do you want to go for a ride?
00:33:35 --> 00:33:38 No, no, no, let's go. I'm in, I'm in all the way. There was a show that was
00:33:38 --> 00:33:44 on for a while, and he taught people how to read people's facial expressions
00:33:44 --> 00:33:46 based on whether or not they were lying.
00:33:47 --> 00:33:50 I feel like I would be really good at that. I feel like you probably would.
00:33:51 --> 00:33:55 And I think for context, we need to give people who may not know you and your
00:33:55 --> 00:33:59 background some context. We've talked a lot about the trauma that you've been through.
00:33:59 --> 00:34:04 But one of the things we haven't let people know who might not know is that
00:34:04 --> 00:34:08 you were raised in a polygamist cult. You were raised in the FLDS.
00:34:08 --> 00:34:15 Your uncle, unfortunately, is Warren Jeffs, the former prophet of the polygamy
00:34:15 --> 00:34:16 cult that you were raised in.
00:34:16 --> 00:34:19 And you had three moms and you are one of 20 children.
00:34:19 --> 00:34:26 So you have a lot of baggage that you carry.
00:34:26 --> 00:34:32 So it's no wonder that you got so good at just reading people because you had
00:34:32 --> 00:34:34 to do that to keep yourself safe.
00:34:34 --> 00:34:36 Yep. You had no choice.
00:34:38 --> 00:34:42 Learning microexpressions was literally like reading, learning to read as a child.
00:34:43 --> 00:34:47 And I have a feeling I don't have any relationships with any of my siblings
00:34:47 --> 00:34:53 anymore, but I have a feeling that a vast majority of them are probably the same.
00:34:53 --> 00:34:58 Yeah. Yeah. Well, you would almost have to be to just be able to survive.
00:34:58 --> 00:35:04 Yeah. So, you know, it's reading people and, again, like you said earlier,
00:35:04 --> 00:35:07 taking a leaf of faith and seeing how that person will land.
00:35:07 --> 00:35:14 Now, I do have a coworker. He's a kind, sweet man. And he...
00:35:15 --> 00:35:21 He will sometimes ask how I am, you know, he'll ask how I'm doing and based on how I respond.
00:35:22 --> 00:35:26 He will, you know, because I am truthful. I'm like, oh, I'm okay,
00:35:26 --> 00:35:29 or I'm alive, or whatever response.
00:35:29 --> 00:35:34 If it's more on a downturn, he will say, not all the time, but sometimes,
00:35:35 --> 00:35:36 do you want to talk about it?
00:35:36 --> 00:35:41 Okay. And I think he does that out of, like, that's the cultural accepted response.
00:35:41 --> 00:35:45 Like that's how he's supposed to, rather than he actually wants to.
00:35:46 --> 00:35:52 Maybe so, but, you know, at least it shows that there's some kindness there.
00:35:52 --> 00:35:55 Yes, and I do recognize that. Yep, yep.
00:35:55 --> 00:36:01 And, you know, maybe that is more of a canned response, but he doesn't have to say it.
00:36:01 --> 00:36:07 No, he doesn't. He is saying it. So, okay, so let's kind of tie this up in a
00:36:07 --> 00:36:12 way that we can all benefit from it. So we're talking about what do you do when
00:36:12 --> 00:36:15 someone says, you know, how are you? Like, how are you really?
00:36:16 --> 00:36:24 How do you answer in a safe enough way so that people who are receiving it aren't, you know,
00:36:24 --> 00:36:30 aren't going to panic and they feel like they have kind of an escape route or
00:36:30 --> 00:36:33 they can just go ahead and be there to support.
00:36:33 --> 00:36:36 So maybe just saying, I'm not great today.
00:36:36 --> 00:36:40 I'm not great today. And then that leaves it open to the person who's receiving
00:36:40 --> 00:36:48 it to either ask a deeper question or back away, be able to back away from the conversation.
00:36:48 --> 00:36:51 Maybe you say, I'm having a hard day. I am having a hard day.
00:36:51 --> 00:36:55 Same thing. They can go ahead and ask about it or not or say,
00:36:55 --> 00:36:57 I don't really know how I'm doing.
00:36:57 --> 00:37:02 I really don't know how I'm doing. And again, that shows that you're not great. night.
00:37:03 --> 00:37:08 You know, it gives people some honesty, which I think is our responsibility.
00:37:09 --> 00:37:13 And then you'll know if the person comes back and says, you know,
00:37:14 --> 00:37:16 they're there for it, they want to hold space for it.
00:37:16 --> 00:37:21 Well, they've just sent you a pretty valuable signal that they're somebody that
00:37:21 --> 00:37:24 at least in that moment that you can trust and you can talk to. Yeah.
00:37:44 --> 00:37:47 The thing to remember is that it can also really, really isolate us too.
00:37:48 --> 00:37:55 And I think that repeating it can sometimes even disconnect us from what we're
00:37:55 --> 00:37:59 actually feeling when we kind of keep defaulting to that over and over again.
00:37:59 --> 00:38:07 But small moments, even small responses like saying, I'm not really having the
00:38:07 --> 00:38:09 best day, or I don't really know how I am.
00:38:11 --> 00:38:15 Leading with a little bit of honesty, even if you don't want to share everything,
00:38:15 --> 00:38:23 I think is at least enough of a signal to somebody so that they can decide if
00:38:23 --> 00:38:27 they want to pick up the ball and run with it or walk away from it.
00:38:27 --> 00:38:35 And I think that's kind of, it's fairness on both sides of, you know what I mean, of the question.
00:38:35 --> 00:38:39 It allows you to be honest and it allows someone to respond honestly.
00:38:40 --> 00:38:43 Okay. You know, I mean, look, there's no, there's no easy answer to it.
00:38:43 --> 00:38:47 I think, you know, we're also predisposed to ask the question.
00:38:48 --> 00:38:54 And sometimes I think it's just, it's a hard one to ask, and it's an even harder one to answer.
00:38:54 --> 00:38:58 But I think the bottom line to all of it is the more honest that we can be all
00:38:58 --> 00:39:01 the way around as the person who is,
00:39:01 --> 00:39:05 answering the question and the person who's asking, I think,
00:39:05 --> 00:39:08 I think the better conversations and dialogues we're all going to have ultimately
00:39:08 --> 00:39:11 at the end of the day. Okay. Yeah, I agree.
00:39:12 --> 00:39:18 Such amazing advice all the time. I don't think so, but I'm glad you think so.
00:39:18 --> 00:39:23 We will be back right here next Wednesday with all the advice that you can handle.
00:39:23 --> 00:39:28 I'm not sure what it will be about yet, but we'll be offering advice very cheaply.
00:39:28 --> 00:39:33 In fact, it's for free. Be sure to tip your waitress. Be sure to tip your way. Right.
00:39:34 --> 00:39:37 Until then, keep surviving. We'll be back next week.
00:39:39 --> 00:39:42 Thanks so much for listening and for being part of the Survivors community.
00:39:43 --> 00:39:47 No matter where you are in your story, you're not alone and you're definitely not broken.
00:39:48 --> 00:39:52 Healing takes time and it looks different for everyone. The fact that you're
00:39:52 --> 00:39:55 still here and still trying means you're already doing the hard work.
00:39:56 --> 00:40:00 If something in today's conversation resonated with you, please share it with
00:40:00 --> 00:40:01 someone who might need to hear it too.
00:40:02 --> 00:40:07 That's how we keep these conversations going and remind each other that there's always hope.
00:40:07 --> 00:40:10 And if you or someone you know is struggling, please remember,
00:40:10 --> 00:40:11 help is always out there.
00:40:12 --> 00:40:16 You can call or text 988 anytime to reach a trained crisis counselor like me.
00:40:16 --> 00:40:20 And for more mental health resources, tools, treatment options,
00:40:20 --> 00:40:24 and content to support your mental health, visit thehelphub.co.
00:40:24 --> 00:40:28 We're so grateful you're part of the Survivors family, and we'll be back next
00:40:28 --> 00:40:31 week with another honest conversation about life after the hardest things.
00:40:32 --> 00:40:36 Until then, take care of yourself and your people and keep surviving.