*WARNING: This podcast mentions suicide, sexual abuse & trauma and may be triggering.
Episode Summary
In this episode, Lisa and Natasha discuss the complexities of family abuse, particularly within polygamous communities.
Natasha shares her personal experiences growing up in the FLDS polygamy cult as the niece of Warren Jeffs, highlighting the hidden abuse and the pressure to maintain a facade of perfection. The conversation emphasizes the importance of breaking the cycle of abuse and finding strength in vulnerability.
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Takeaways
- Family abuse often remains hidden behind closed doors.
- Growing up in a polygamous community, Natasha faced unique challenges.
- The pressure to maintain a facade of perfection was immense.
- Abuse is not always loud; it can be subtle and insidious.
- Breaking the cycle of abuse requires courage and support.
- Vulnerability can be a source of strength and healing.
- It's important to remember that abuse is never the victim's fault.
- Support systems and community can play a crucial role in healing.
- Sharing personal stories can help others feel less alone.
- Healing is a journey that requires time and patience.
Chapters
00:00:01 Introduction and Personal Reflections
00:01:48 Discussing Family Abuse
00:09:12 Natasha's Personal Experiences
00:21:08 Breaking the Cycle and Healing
Mental Health Resources
- If you or someone you know is struggling, please call 988 for help.
- The Survivors Podcast Website – https://thesurvivors.net/
- The HelpHUB™ – Mental health resources, tools, and support networks – https://www.thehelphub.co/
- National Domestic Violence Hotline – Call 1-800-799-SAFE (7223)
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See you next week! In the meantime, keep surviving.
00:00:00 --> 00:00:05 Hey friends, before we dive into this week's episode, just a heads up.
00:00:05 --> 00:00:09 Our podcast talks about suicide, sexual abuse, and other trauma,
00:00:09 --> 00:00:13 and some of what you hear may be triggering. So please listen with care.
00:00:13 --> 00:00:19 This is The Survivors. Real stories, raw conversations, and the truth about
00:00:19 --> 00:00:21 what it means to keep going after the hardest things.
00:00:21 --> 00:00:25 We're so glad you're here. Let's keep surviving together.
00:00:26 --> 00:00:29 Hi. Hey, what's going on? you
00:00:29 --> 00:00:33 know, just felt like talking. You feel like talking? I feel like talking.
00:00:33 --> 00:00:37 I can always talk to you, like every day. I can talk to you,
00:00:37 --> 00:00:41 too. I love talking to you every day. So, want to have another hard conversation?
00:00:43 --> 00:00:48 Yeah, as much as I don't love it, but I'll keep saying it like a dead damn record.
00:00:48 --> 00:00:50 If it helps one person, then it's good enough for me.
00:00:51 --> 00:00:55 You know what? That's all anybody could hope for. You and I have both gotten
00:00:55 --> 00:01:00 feedback from people, heard from people in so many different ways that the things
00:01:00 --> 00:01:03 that we're sharing are hitting people.
00:01:03 --> 00:01:07 They're making people feel like they're less alone. People are seeing themselves
00:01:07 --> 00:01:11 in us and our stories. And so that's the whole point, right?
00:01:12 --> 00:01:17 Yeah. And I do want to share that I have a sweet man that I follow on TikTok and we're friends.
00:01:18 --> 00:01:22 And he shared with me that, so last Wednesday when our first podcast aired.
00:01:24 --> 00:01:29 He had a friend that was on the edge And they had to call the helpline And get
00:01:29 --> 00:01:32 this person some help I don't know if it's male or female,
00:01:32 --> 00:01:37 And then after they were okay He then sent them our podcast And that person
00:01:37 --> 00:01:41 said that our podcast Just the first episode Already made a difference in their
00:01:41 --> 00:01:45 life And that person has then shared it with another person Who is also struggling.
00:01:46 --> 00:01:51 And so right there You know what that's called? Community Community,
00:01:52 --> 00:01:55 And that's what you and I are trying to do. So let's do more of it.
00:01:55 --> 00:02:00 So I know that we talked a lot about, you know, how we want to build up this
00:02:00 --> 00:02:05 first season together and things we want to talk about. And a lot of this is focusing on you.
00:02:05 --> 00:02:09 I mean, people who have been here and listened to the survivors for the first
00:02:09 --> 00:02:11 couple of seasons, they know me, they know my story.
00:02:11 --> 00:02:15 And I really, I want people to know you and I want them to know your story and
00:02:15 --> 00:02:21 your story is so complex. And it's something that so many different people can
00:02:21 --> 00:02:22 connect with in so many different ways.
00:02:23 --> 00:02:31 So today we wanted to talk about that thing that people don't want to believe
00:02:31 --> 00:02:34 can ever happen in their life and in their family, especially,
00:02:34 --> 00:02:41 where the people who you're supposed to be loved and protected by are the ones
00:02:41 --> 00:02:42 who are actually hurting you.
00:02:42 --> 00:02:48 And I know that, unfortunately, you have so much experience in that place.
00:02:49 --> 00:02:55 And we're talking about family abuse, the kind that happens behind closed doors, gets covered up.
00:02:56 --> 00:03:00 I mean, you're from polygamist background.
00:03:00 --> 00:03:03 You grew up in the FLDS. We've talked about that a lot the last couple of weeks.
00:03:03 --> 00:03:10 You had to conceal anything that was not perfect, right?
00:03:10 --> 00:03:15 Absolutely. Especially because we were the grandchildren of the prophet, the current prophet.
00:03:16 --> 00:03:20 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're Warren Jeffs' niece. Yeah. So...
00:03:21 --> 00:03:24 To the people who are listening to this conversation, if you grew up afraid
00:03:24 --> 00:03:29 of being in your own house, afraid of your parents or afraid of your siblings,
00:03:29 --> 00:03:32 this is the conversation that you want to be dialed into right now.
00:03:33 --> 00:03:36 You're not the problem and it wasn't your fault.
00:03:36 --> 00:03:40 So this episode right now, just coincidentally, or because we're just master
00:03:40 --> 00:03:48 planners, you and I, is falling during the 16 days of activism against gender-based violence.
00:03:48 --> 00:03:57 And it's a reminder that abuse doesn't just happen in like romantic types of relationships.
00:03:57 --> 00:04:02 It happens inside of families. It happens between parents and children and siblings.
00:04:02 --> 00:04:04 And it happens in homes that look normal, right?
00:04:04 --> 00:04:10 Whatever that is, I'm doing air quotes. So we're here to talk about what it
00:04:10 --> 00:04:17 was like for you growing up in a home where love was replaced by a lot of manipulation
00:04:17 --> 00:04:19 in a lot of ways, a lot of cruelty,
00:04:20 --> 00:04:24 where your siblings, and I know you've been open about your mom,
00:04:25 --> 00:04:29 played a very big role in a lot of the abuse that you endured growing up.
00:04:29 --> 00:04:31 That was not protection at all.
00:04:32 --> 00:04:38 So we're all taught that family is supposed to be sacred and safe, your safe place.
00:04:38 --> 00:04:45 Was there that big feeling of loyalty that you couldn't disrespect the family
00:04:45 --> 00:04:46 or speak badly about the family?
00:04:47 --> 00:04:50 Oh, yeah, 100%. Yeah, and that still happens to this day.
00:04:51 --> 00:04:55 Yeah. Maintaining the status quo. You know, you don't air the dirty laundry.
00:04:55 --> 00:04:57 What happens behind closed doors?
00:04:58 --> 00:05:01 Yeah. Oh, yeah. And that was not unique to just my family.
00:05:02 --> 00:05:08 It was pretty common. A lot of abuse that occurred in many of the polygamous homes. Yeah.
00:05:08 --> 00:05:14 It was a physical, sexual. It was a very common place and it's incredibly sad.
00:05:14 --> 00:05:18 Yeah, it is incredibly sad. Because we all thought it was unique to us.
00:05:19 --> 00:05:23 Our individual families. And then as we've all grown up and started talking
00:05:23 --> 00:05:28 to each other, and people have left the FLDS, and it's like,
00:05:28 --> 00:05:30 oh, wow, we weren't alone. It was happening.
00:05:30 --> 00:05:34 Some worse than others, but it was happening in, I would say,
00:05:34 --> 00:05:35 the vast majority of homes.
00:05:36 --> 00:05:43 Yeah, that's just, it's so sad. Can you talk about when you started realizing
00:05:43 --> 00:05:50 that what was happening in your family wasn't love and that it was abuse. Like, do you remember?
00:05:50 --> 00:05:54 Was there an incident or a time period that.
00:05:55 --> 00:06:00 Where that happened to you? So one of my very first memories that I have is
00:06:00 --> 00:06:06 the mothers would take turns on who was in charge of the children each day because
00:06:06 --> 00:06:09 they worked or did various things outside of the home to bring in extra money.
00:06:10 --> 00:06:13 And just to clarify, you had three mothers in your family.
00:06:13 --> 00:06:18 Yes, there were three mothers. And at one point, I believe there was up to 15 children in the home.
00:06:18 --> 00:06:22 That was the maximum amount that was in the home at the time.
00:06:22 --> 00:06:26 There's a total of 20 of us, but obviously there's an age gap of 25 years from
00:06:26 --> 00:06:28 the oldest to the very youngest.
00:06:29 --> 00:06:36 And so when Martha was in charge of children, when it came time for my nap time,
00:06:37 --> 00:06:40 she would lock me in the bedroom next to the dining room.
00:06:41 --> 00:06:47 And she'd put a copious amount of lotion on my hands and then on the door handle and then lock the door.
00:06:49 --> 00:06:52 And jenny told me she remembers me every day
00:06:52 --> 00:06:55 that every time martha was on kids this
00:06:55 --> 00:06:58 and they would be sitting there eating their lunch listening to
00:06:58 --> 00:07:03 me scream and kick at the door trying to get out and i would fall asleep they
00:07:03 --> 00:07:06 would see my little shadow under the door because i had fallen asleep when the
00:07:06 --> 00:07:12 noise stopped and i was at the base of the door and i remember casually mentioning
00:07:12 --> 00:07:18 this to my mom when I was about 12 or 13 and asked her if I called and she said, absolutely, I didn't.
00:07:18 --> 00:07:22 So as I'm telling my mother about this and she just suddenly remembered,
00:07:23 --> 00:07:25 oh my gosh, it makes sense. And I said, well, what do you mean?
00:07:26 --> 00:07:29 She says, when you were little and I would give you a bath and I would be putting
00:07:29 --> 00:07:35 lotion on you, anytime I went to put it on your hands, you would cry and say, no, mama, I get stuck.
00:07:37 --> 00:07:43 And that memory right there has shaped so many situations in my life where if
00:07:43 --> 00:07:47 I get stuck in a situation, I go into full panic mode.
00:07:47 --> 00:07:51 If there's any type of situation where I feel like I can't get out,
00:07:52 --> 00:07:58 it sends me into a full-on panic, and I sometimes have a panic attack.
00:07:58 --> 00:08:05 You talk about formative memories, you know, core memories of being trapped
00:08:05 --> 00:08:09 as a little kid and you can't get out. That's every little kid's worst nightmare.
00:08:10 --> 00:08:13 And it happened repeatedly. I don't know how many times.
00:08:13 --> 00:08:18 It probably went on for years. Yeah. So, I mean, it's just, there's a lot of,
00:08:18 --> 00:08:24 there's so much abuse that I don't remember, but there are a few core memories that I do have.
00:08:25 --> 00:08:28 The first I I tried and attempted to
00:08:28 --> 00:08:31 run away and threatened many many times but the
00:08:31 --> 00:08:34 youngest I believe I was was probably four or five and
00:08:34 --> 00:08:38 every Saturday night it was because Sunday was a big day we'd go to church and
00:08:38 --> 00:08:43 do all the things and so we'd you know the little foam curlers from the 80s
00:08:43 --> 00:08:47 and my mom would put them in and she always touch them really tight and I remember
00:08:47 --> 00:08:53 one time she smacked me on the head with the brush really hard and then I had to sit there and,
00:08:54 --> 00:08:57 tears streaming down my face as she continued to put the curlers in my hair.
00:08:57 --> 00:09:03 I was in my little peach robe, and I wanted to run away, so I started walking down the street.
00:09:03 --> 00:09:09 I don't think I got far, but that was a very distinct memory of knowing that
00:09:09 --> 00:09:10 my home was no longer safe.
00:09:10 --> 00:09:13 Yeah. As young as probably four or five years old.
00:09:14 --> 00:09:22 How did it build? How did getting hit with a brush or being locked in a room like that evolve?
00:09:23 --> 00:09:26 What did it look like as you got older? So I know you've told me some stories
00:09:26 --> 00:09:32 offline about things that had happened. So,
00:09:33 --> 00:09:37 When I look at each of the mothers, Susan still hit her kids.
00:09:38 --> 00:09:42 And to my knowledge, I don't remember her ever hitting her children with anything other than her hands.
00:09:44 --> 00:09:48 Martha was severely abusive. I mentioned a metal spoon before.
00:09:49 --> 00:09:53 My mom's favorite weapon of choice was a commercial-grade rubber spatula.
00:09:53 --> 00:09:56 It was huge. Yeah, you and I talked about that.
00:09:57 --> 00:10:01 Yeah, so that was her, what I considered, weapon of choice.
00:10:01 --> 00:10:04 One memory that stands out for me there is
00:10:04 --> 00:10:08 she was working in the kitchen doing something
00:10:08 --> 00:10:11 i can't remember what and this
00:10:11 --> 00:10:14 happens a lot where the children are expected to take care of the younger
00:10:14 --> 00:10:17 children and she wanted me and jerusha to go take
00:10:17 --> 00:10:20 him on a walk or something like that and he was
00:10:20 --> 00:10:23 three four maybe and he didn't want
00:10:23 --> 00:10:29 us he wanted his mom and jerusha and i had a very difficult relationship and
00:10:29 --> 00:10:34 we bickered a lot and we were fighting and couldn't get him to calm down we
00:10:34 --> 00:10:41 came back in the house and mom went into a full blind rage because we couldn't control a toddler.
00:10:42 --> 00:10:50 And she proceeded to beat all three of us with that rubber spatula and this
00:10:50 --> 00:10:52 is hard that's okay It's okay.
00:10:52 --> 00:10:58 Watching a toddler get beat and feeling absolutely powerless.
00:10:58 --> 00:11:03 Because if we stood up to her or tried to stop in any way, we would get hit harder.
00:11:04 --> 00:11:11 And when he saw her going for that rubber spatula, he said, no,
00:11:11 --> 00:11:14 mommy, not the rubber spatula.
00:11:15 --> 00:11:20 And from that day on, it became called the rubber spatula. You okay?
00:11:21 --> 00:11:28 Yeah, I'm okay. Somehow it's the abuse that happened to my younger siblings.
00:11:29 --> 00:11:32 I can handle it for me. Well, you're a mom now.
00:11:32 --> 00:11:37 You're sitting here telling us the story as a mom of your own son and daughter,
00:11:37 --> 00:11:40 and you were protective in that way.
00:11:40 --> 00:11:43 You had all those maternal instincts for your younger siblings.
00:11:43 --> 00:11:51 How could you not feel helpless and responsible and affected by that? Yeah, and then...
00:11:51 --> 00:11:57 The three of us went back outside and we consoled each other and just went on with their day.
00:11:58 --> 00:12:01 And then having to come back and sit down to dinner, like everything's okay.
00:12:01 --> 00:12:03 And that happened so many times.
00:12:04 --> 00:12:07 Getting the shit beat out of us and then having to pretend like it never happened.
00:12:08 --> 00:12:12 I'm just so sorry. You were kids. You were little kids.
00:12:12 --> 00:12:15 It wasn't your fault. I know you know that. I know you don't need me to tell
00:12:15 --> 00:12:19 you that. But it's not your fault. It wasn't then. It isn't now.
00:12:20 --> 00:12:25 This is all on the people who abused you it's all on any of the people who abuse
00:12:25 --> 00:12:33 anyone and take advantage in that way and I feel like and I'm just I'm making an educated guess here.
00:12:35 --> 00:12:39 Being in a home like that, being in an environment that was so unpredictable
00:12:39 --> 00:12:42 with a parent who could just like immediately, you know,
00:12:43 --> 00:12:49 flip a switch and they're a different person, probably created a feeling in
00:12:49 --> 00:12:52 you and probably your siblings, too, where you needed to stay invisible.
00:12:53 --> 00:12:59 Like, yes, protect yourself. I mean, which is something that no child should
00:12:59 --> 00:13:01 ever have to feel is invisible,
00:13:02 --> 00:13:08 period, especially from their parent who's supposed to be there to protect you.
00:13:08 --> 00:13:10 But that was about this is about survival for you.
00:13:11 --> 00:13:17 Well, and some of us got really good at disappearing because they learned that
00:13:17 --> 00:13:21 if you didn't speak up, if you just became invincible, if you were the good
00:13:21 --> 00:13:22 child, you wouldn't get beat as much.
00:13:22 --> 00:13:26 So I know there's several of my siblings that fall into that category where
00:13:26 --> 00:13:29 they just learn to just not do anything.
00:13:29 --> 00:13:34 And then as our personalities are developing and some of us became more outspoken,
00:13:34 --> 00:13:39 I would have to say that of all the children, the person that got it the worst
00:13:39 --> 00:13:40 was Klain, and he was the oldest.
00:13:40 --> 00:13:45 Dad was dealing with PTSD from the Vietnam War, and he was a very defiant child.
00:13:46 --> 00:13:50 And, you know, later finding out that he had been severely sexually abused by
00:13:50 --> 00:13:53 my uncles, and that shaped him a lot.
00:13:53 --> 00:13:57 He was a really angry little boy, and so he just, from the get-go,
00:13:57 --> 00:13:58 was a very defiant child.
00:13:58 --> 00:14:01 So he, I think, of all of us, got it the worst.
00:14:02 --> 00:14:09 I know that as I grew and probably it was around the age of 10 that I really
00:14:09 --> 00:14:17 began to realize that I couldn't just stay silent and I would stand up for myself And that also became,
00:14:17 --> 00:14:19 you know, it became a target for my siblings,
00:14:19 --> 00:14:22 you know, mentioning the lotion situation and getting trapped in the room,
00:14:23 --> 00:14:28 I remember a time, you know, when siblings tease each other and,
00:14:28 --> 00:14:34 yeah, but there was several instances where the moms were gone to work and I
00:14:34 --> 00:14:37 was, I don't know, probably 10 or 12.
00:14:37 --> 00:14:43 And Monroe, Jerusha, and Brent were chasing me and being mean and they locked
00:14:43 --> 00:14:46 me in the utility closet, which was a scary room.
00:14:47 --> 00:14:51 No light. It was water heater, water softener, concrete floor,
00:14:51 --> 00:14:55 and they locked me in there. and they tied a string from the door handle to
00:14:55 --> 00:14:59 a door handle across the way so that I couldn't get out.
00:14:59 --> 00:15:02 Physically, I could open it enough to see out, but I couldn't.
00:15:02 --> 00:15:04 And they left me in there for I don't know how long.
00:15:04 --> 00:15:10 Again, screaming, trying to get out. There was no parent present to help me.
00:15:10 --> 00:15:12 And that happened a number of times.
00:15:13 --> 00:15:17 I don't know why I became a target to some of my siblings.
00:15:17 --> 00:15:22 I know that Jerusha and Monro mentioned to me as we became adults.
00:15:23 --> 00:15:29 So my mom had four children within eight years. She spaced her kids out a little bit more.
00:15:30 --> 00:15:36 But there was an age gap. She had difficulty keeping pregnancies.
00:15:36 --> 00:15:39 So there's an eight-and-a-half-year age gap between me and Ward.
00:15:40 --> 00:15:44 And so as it became apparent that my mom, she didn't think she was going to
00:15:44 --> 00:15:47 have any more children, she began to favor me.
00:15:48 --> 00:15:51 And so then Jerusha and Monroe felt neglected.
00:15:52 --> 00:15:55 So that's why I asked them. And
00:15:55 --> 00:16:00 they said, yeah, because you became mom's favorite and we felt neglected.
00:16:00 --> 00:16:04 Yeah. Which is typical. That's not an unusual scenario at all.
00:16:05 --> 00:16:13 What is not the norm is to wake up feeling unsafe, spending all your time and
00:16:13 --> 00:16:15 going back to bed the next day,
00:16:15 --> 00:16:22 feeling like the place that is supposed to be the safest is the house of horrors.
00:16:22 --> 00:16:28 Yeah. It's a place where you are being abused and being victimized and aren't
00:16:28 --> 00:16:35 being protected and aren't being seen as a child who needs to be loved and nurtured
00:16:35 --> 00:16:37 and who needs to be guided.
00:16:37 --> 00:16:40 So you were not only abused by...
00:16:41 --> 00:16:49 Your moms, but your siblings. And healing from family abuse,
00:16:49 --> 00:16:52 like the kind of abuse that you've gone through, isn't about,
00:16:52 --> 00:16:55 I would imagine, it's not about forgiving and forgetting.
00:16:55 --> 00:17:01 I mean, it's about remembering. It's about rebuilding yourself in spite of that,
00:17:01 --> 00:17:03 right? Is it? It would have to be.
00:17:04 --> 00:17:08 It's taken a lot of work and adult conversations, and some of my siblings don't
00:17:08 --> 00:17:12 want to have the conversations and that's fine because they're content and burying
00:17:12 --> 00:17:16 in their heads and that's their survival mechanism. I get that.
00:17:17 --> 00:17:20 What does our friend Mel Robbins always say? Let them.
00:17:21 --> 00:17:27 I'm actually reading the book right now. So it changed a lot of things for me,
00:17:27 --> 00:17:34 but it's a daily struggle of never feeling like enough and never feeling like I matter in my family.
00:17:34 --> 00:17:38 There a lot of the middle children just
00:17:38 --> 00:17:43 got lost in the shuffle the older kids were overly abused and the parents were
00:17:43 --> 00:17:46 really really strict and then they kind of calmed down a little bit with the
00:17:46 --> 00:17:50 middle children and then by the time the last five children rolled around they
00:17:50 --> 00:17:56 were just done and they were severe and severely neglected because they just
00:17:56 --> 00:17:57 didn't want a parent anymore.
00:17:58 --> 00:18:02 And so it's interesting how there's kind of like three generations within our
00:18:02 --> 00:18:05 family and so it's kind of interesting how we each have our own little set.
00:18:05 --> 00:18:08 And then there's those of us that are kind of on the cusp of both.
00:18:08 --> 00:18:11 So, yeah. Yeah.
00:18:11 --> 00:18:15 It changes you in a way that you don't realize until you're older,
00:18:15 --> 00:18:17 and especially once you have children.
00:18:17 --> 00:18:22 And I remember this is, I used to spank my kids when they were little,
00:18:23 --> 00:18:25 and only, you know, with my hands.
00:18:26 --> 00:18:30 But when Dominic was about two or three, I decided, because spanking wasn't
00:18:30 --> 00:18:33 getting through to him, and I was like, I don't want to do this anymore.
00:18:33 --> 00:18:34 I don't want to be this mother.
00:18:35 --> 00:18:37 And this is where I talk about, you make a choice. And I had been listening
00:18:37 --> 00:18:44 to episodes of Super Nanny. And she had some amazing principles that she taught.
00:18:44 --> 00:18:47 And so I started listening and implementing those principles.
00:18:47 --> 00:18:52 And so I can say that I have not spanked my children since Dominic was three years old.
00:18:52 --> 00:18:55 They have no memory of ever being spanked. They have memories of being placed
00:18:55 --> 00:18:59 in a timeout on the stairs. Like every kid ever, right? Yeah.
00:19:00 --> 00:19:04 But you know what? Good for you for breaking that cycle. Good for you for saying
00:19:04 --> 00:19:07 this does not feel right. This is not who I want to be.
00:19:07 --> 00:19:10 This is not what I want for my children.
00:19:11 --> 00:19:18 And that's such a huge part of healing. You're not ignoring that it all happened.
00:19:18 --> 00:19:23 You're making sure that it doesn't carry over into your life with your family.
00:19:24 --> 00:19:26 And it's not defining who you are anymore.
00:19:29 --> 00:19:33 Yeah, it's not about being over it. It's about being in control of it,
00:19:33 --> 00:19:36 which you are at this point.
00:19:37 --> 00:19:40 I am. And saying it stops with me. Yeah.
00:19:41 --> 00:19:46 I just, I can't, especially as my children have grown and I have memories of
00:19:46 --> 00:19:50 things that happened at their age, I couldn't imagine doing that to them.
00:19:51 --> 00:19:55 And especially now, my kids are 12 and 14 now and they bicker and they,
00:19:55 --> 00:19:57 you know, they do normal things.
00:19:57 --> 00:20:00 Would I fly at them in a blind
00:20:00 --> 00:20:04 rage say for example I remember
00:20:04 --> 00:20:08 a time where I was teasing my younger brother Christopher he's five years younger
00:20:08 --> 00:20:15 than me I was probably 13 and I was just teasing him in a normal I felt kind
00:20:15 --> 00:20:22 of way and Susan it was such a vivid memory she flew at me Down the stairs,
00:20:22 --> 00:20:25 there was no light in her eyes. I saw black.
00:20:26 --> 00:20:29 So this is one of your moms? This is the first wife, Susan, yeah.
00:20:30 --> 00:20:32 And she came at me and she choked me.
00:20:32 --> 00:20:37 I freaked out. I ran to my mom. She, of course, got very upset.
00:20:37 --> 00:20:43 She was going to call CPS and she called my dad. And it was this big, huge thing.
00:20:43 --> 00:20:47 And interestingly enough, when we were going through the family photos for Monroe's
00:20:47 --> 00:20:51 funeral in March of 2025, I came across those pictures.
00:20:51 --> 00:20:57 Of my neck. And I had completely forgotten how bad it was.
00:20:58 --> 00:21:01 And then dad came home. The mothers.
00:21:03 --> 00:21:11 I. Nope. We're good. Just everything. Every situation where we were abused in some kind of way.
00:21:11 --> 00:21:13 It just was never addressed.
00:21:14 --> 00:21:19 And it just continued to fester and to boil. And.
00:21:20 --> 00:21:26 I still can't make sense of it. Well, it's hiding a secret. It's a dirty secret.
00:21:26 --> 00:21:30 That's what it is. I mean, you're hitting a kid with a spatula.
00:21:30 --> 00:21:33 You're hitting a kid with a metal spoon. You're choking out a kid.
00:21:33 --> 00:21:41 You're locking a kid in a room and keeping them from coming out. You're trapping them.
00:21:42 --> 00:21:49 You're abusing a child. But the problem is you were living in a community where that was the norm.
00:21:49 --> 00:21:55 That was the way that family dynamics were built, and that was the way that
00:21:55 --> 00:21:59 people interacted, and people were being abused regularly,
00:22:00 --> 00:22:04 and people were being molested, and people were being mistreated,
00:22:04 --> 00:22:08 and everybody's out there doing the same thing.
00:22:08 --> 00:22:13 So it normalizes that kind of behavior, and if no one's talking about it really
00:22:13 --> 00:22:16 being a bad thing, well, then is it really? That's right.
00:22:17 --> 00:22:20 I mean, our parents like, yes. Did our parents do marginally better?
00:22:22 --> 00:22:26 And not, you know, did we get beat as hard as they did? No, they did marginally
00:22:26 --> 00:22:28 better. So I guess in their eyes, they did.
00:22:29 --> 00:22:33 As an objective observer, let me tell you something. If you're sitting here
00:22:33 --> 00:22:37 right now telling me my parents did better because they beat us a little less.
00:22:38 --> 00:22:44 I'm sorry. I'm going to push back on that real hard and say they beat you.
00:22:44 --> 00:22:46 They didn't do better. They didn't.
00:22:47 --> 00:22:53 That's the truth. You know, I mean, that's what we were told. Well, you were a kid.
00:22:54 --> 00:22:58 You were kids trusting your parents to protect you, guide you,
00:22:58 --> 00:23:03 love you, lead you, nurture you, all the things, and they didn't do that.
00:23:03 --> 00:23:09 So if you're listening to this conversation and you've made it this far,
00:23:09 --> 00:23:12 hold on to this for a second.
00:23:12 --> 00:23:14 And we've kind of talked about this. We've kind of alluded to this,
00:23:14 --> 00:23:19 that abuse is not always loud, especially when it's not being talked about.
00:23:19 --> 00:23:22 It's just being done behind closed doors, and everyone's expected to keep it
00:23:22 --> 00:23:24 a secret. So it's not always loud.
00:23:25 --> 00:23:28 And sometimes it hides behind that word family.
00:23:29 --> 00:23:31 Because when you hide everything behind, oh, everything happens,
00:23:32 --> 00:23:33 you know, everybody's family is different.
00:23:33 --> 00:23:36 Well, okay, everybody's family is different. But when you're beating the living
00:23:36 --> 00:23:40 shit out of your kids behind closed doors, that's not the kind of different
00:23:40 --> 00:23:41 that we mean when we say different.
00:23:42 --> 00:23:49 The way that you protected yourself, staying quiet, staying small and tiny and
00:23:49 --> 00:23:54 out of sight and all those things, You learned survival skills at the same time
00:23:54 --> 00:23:57 you were learning how to walk and talk. That's insane.
00:23:57 --> 00:24:05 So this is you right now refusing to carry those secrets anymore.
00:24:05 --> 00:24:06 That's what you're doing here.
00:24:06 --> 00:24:10 The secret of abuse. We've talked about the suicides of your five brothers.
00:24:11 --> 00:24:13 We've talked about you attempting three times.
00:24:13 --> 00:24:17 We've talked about you enduring sexual abuse at the hands of your older brother.
00:24:17 --> 00:24:20 You're not keeping these secrets anymore
00:24:20 --> 00:24:24 you're breaking the cycle and that is so important if
00:24:24 --> 00:24:27 anyone is listening to this conversation and you're
00:24:27 --> 00:24:35 in the thick of it right now and you're in an abusive relationship in any context
00:24:35 --> 00:24:38 whether it's a marriage whether it's your boyfriend or your girlfriend or your
00:24:38 --> 00:24:44 partner or a child or maybe it's an older parent being abused by a child I mean
00:24:44 --> 00:24:47 there's elder abuse that's rampant nowadays days.
00:24:48 --> 00:24:52 To anybody who's listening and who's lived through this, you are not alone.
00:24:52 --> 00:24:58 You're not alone. No. There are people like Natasha. Look, I come from a different place, okay?
00:24:59 --> 00:25:03 I'm not going to lie. I mean, we haven't talked at all about any of this relating
00:25:03 --> 00:25:07 to me because I do not have this lived experience. I grew up in a very different home.
00:25:07 --> 00:25:11 I grew up here in Boston, and I had two loving parents. And,
00:25:11 --> 00:25:14 yeah, unfortunately, it sucks. I lost my dad to suicide. That was horrible.
00:25:16 --> 00:25:24 And I have not had to endure that one time in my entire life because I, okay, I drove the car.
00:25:25 --> 00:25:29 I was a little kid and the car was parked at an angle on our driveway and I
00:25:29 --> 00:25:32 was being a bitch to my mom as a little kid and she got out and said, fine,
00:25:32 --> 00:25:35 stay here, be as angry as you want and then come in the house when you're ready
00:25:35 --> 00:25:39 and I shifted the car into drive and drove right through the garage door and
00:25:39 --> 00:25:42 10 seconds later, my father came home from work around the corner.
00:25:42 --> 00:25:46 I've never told this story out loud and I ran up to my bedroom and locked the
00:25:46 --> 00:25:48 door with that little push button lock on the door.
00:25:49 --> 00:25:53 And my father came up and he freaked out and he saw what happened and he saw
00:25:53 --> 00:25:56 my mother was like in a state because she didn't even know if I got hurt like
00:25:56 --> 00:26:01 I ran right upstairs and my father came like busted into my room and,
00:26:02 --> 00:26:06 and smack me on the ass one time, just bang, you know, open, open hand.
00:26:07 --> 00:26:10 And my father had never, oh my God, my father was the kindest,
00:26:10 --> 00:26:13 sweetest, most passive man in the world, never laid a hand on me.
00:26:13 --> 00:26:17 He went into his office, which was right next door to my bedroom and sobbed
00:26:17 --> 00:26:20 and sobbed and sobbed his eyes out.
00:26:20 --> 00:26:25 And never, of course, laid a hand on me again for the rest of his life as my dad.
00:26:25 --> 00:26:29 But my point is, aside from being smacked on the ass once because I drove a
00:26:29 --> 00:26:30 car through the garage door.
00:26:31 --> 00:26:35 I didn't grow up the way you grew up. I was not abused.
00:26:35 --> 00:26:39 It's really hard for me to actually say to the person who drew up the way you
00:26:39 --> 00:26:40 did, like, I know I was loved.
00:26:40 --> 00:26:43 I felt like I was loved because I want to give you that.
00:26:43 --> 00:26:46 Like, you know what I mean? I don't want you to not have that.
00:26:46 --> 00:26:49 And I love that you have that now with your family and your kids and your husband
00:26:49 --> 00:26:55 and that dynamic. But it makes me feel bad to even say that I had a happy childhood
00:26:55 --> 00:26:57 aside from losing my dad when I was 10.
00:26:58 --> 00:27:02 But you are creating so many points of connection for people who are out here listening.
00:27:02 --> 00:27:06 We don't know who's listening to us, where, when, what they're dealing with.
00:27:06 --> 00:27:12 They could be locked in a closet right now, afraid to go out into a room with their abuser.
00:27:14 --> 00:27:18 What you're doing is showing people that they have the power to break the cycle.
00:27:18 --> 00:27:20 They can make the phone call. They can pack up and leave.
00:27:21 --> 00:27:26 You're showing people that they can break free from a system that is failing
00:27:26 --> 00:27:31 you and a family that may be failing you. And you're giving people courage.
00:27:31 --> 00:27:36 And that's like the end all be all as far as I'm concerned.
00:27:37 --> 00:27:40 So I don't know about you. I know you've said this in the past when we've talked,
00:27:41 --> 00:27:45 that if someone is listening right now and this episode brought up something
00:27:45 --> 00:27:48 for you and you're dealing with something and you really just do not know what
00:27:48 --> 00:27:51 to do, you don't know what your first move could be,
00:27:51 --> 00:27:54 reach out to us. Go to thesurvivors.net.
00:27:54 --> 00:27:57 Follow us on social media. DM us. Send us a message.
00:27:57 --> 00:28:01 Natasha and I will answer. And if I don't have experience with the thing,
00:28:02 --> 00:28:07 I guarantee you Natasha has experience. So I know that both of us really want
00:28:07 --> 00:28:11 desperately for people to feel like they have people in their corner.
00:28:11 --> 00:28:14 So let us be those people in your corner.
00:28:14 --> 00:28:17 And if we can't help you solve the problem, we can help you find somebody maybe who can.
00:28:18 --> 00:28:23 Yes, absolutely. I never, ever want anybody to feel like they're trapped in any kind of situation.
00:28:24 --> 00:28:29 There's always a way out, no matter what. Yeah. So just remember,
00:28:29 --> 00:28:32 obviously, we're saying we're both here. This community is here.
00:28:32 --> 00:28:36 You can also text or call 988,
00:28:36 --> 00:28:43 the Suicide Crisis Lifeline, or you can contact RAINN at 1-800-656-HOPE for
00:28:43 --> 00:28:49 support that's confidential if you're in an abusive situation and you don't know what to do.
00:28:49 --> 00:28:54 We'll put all this info in the show notes and all these numbers and contact
00:28:54 --> 00:28:56 points. You deserve to be safe.
00:28:56 --> 00:28:58 You deserve to have peace.
00:28:58 --> 00:29:02 If you're hurting, you deserve to heal. So...
00:29:03 --> 00:29:10 Next week, we are going to have a conversation about surviving the holidays
00:29:10 --> 00:29:18 and those expectations to be happy and joyful and perfect and celebrate everything,
00:29:18 --> 00:29:20 no matter how you're feeling on the inside.
00:29:21 --> 00:29:25 And that's going to be a big conversation. We kind of touched on that a little bit last week.
00:29:25 --> 00:29:28 I think it was last week, but we're going to touch on it a little deeper from
00:29:28 --> 00:29:29 a different angle next week.
00:29:29 --> 00:29:36 So until then, keep surviving, stay with us, reach out when you need us,
00:29:36 --> 00:29:41 and remember that your story's not over. We're all becoming, right?
00:29:42 --> 00:29:46 Absolutely. And you're stronger than you believe. You really are.
00:29:46 --> 00:29:49 Hey, by the way, just to you, from me to you, I'm pretending right now that
00:29:49 --> 00:29:52 nobody else is listening. From me to you, that was a lot.
00:29:53 --> 00:29:58 And I know it was really hard. And I really love and appreciate you for just putting it out there.
00:29:58 --> 00:30:01 So, blowing you kisses right now. Thank you. I appreciate that.
00:30:01 --> 00:30:04 I'll see you next week, okay? Bye. Bye.
00:30:05 --> 00:30:09 Thanks so much for listening and for being part of the Survivors community.
00:30:09 --> 00:30:14 No matter where you are in your story, you're not alone and you're definitely not broken.
00:30:14 --> 00:30:19 Healing takes time and it looks different for everyone. The fact that you're
00:30:19 --> 00:30:22 still here and still trying means you're already doing the hard work.
00:30:23 --> 00:30:27 If something in today's conversation resonated with you, please share it with
00:30:27 --> 00:30:28 someone who might need to hear it too.
00:30:29 --> 00:30:34 That's how we keep these conversations going and remind each other that there's always hope.
00:30:34 --> 00:30:37 And if you or someone you know is struggling, please remember,
00:30:37 --> 00:30:38 help is always out there.
00:30:38 --> 00:30:43 You can call or text 988 anytime to reach a trained crisis counselor like me.
00:30:43 --> 00:30:47 And for more mental health resources, tools, treatment options,
00:30:47 --> 00:30:51 and content to support your mental health, visit thehelphub.co.
00:30:51 --> 00:30:55 We're so grateful you're part of the Survivors family, and we'll be back next
00:30:55 --> 00:30:58 week with another honest conversation about life after the hardest things.
00:30:59 --> 00:31:03 Until then, take care of yourself and your people and keep surviving.