*WARNING: This podcast mentions suicide, sexual abuse & trauma and may be triggering.
Episode Summary
In this episode, Lisa speaks with her lifelong friend Caleb Powers as he tells, for the first time publicly, the story of the SS Marine Electric sinking on February 12, 1983 and his father being lost at sea. Caleb recounts the phone call that changed everything, his father Richard Powers' role as chief engineer and his final act to save lives, and the immediate chaos and grief that followed.
They explore how the disaster shaped Caleb's adolescence—feelings of loneliness, substance use, and a long path through therapy—and how the event spurred industry safety changes. This is part one of a two-part conversation about surviving trauma, loss, and the work of healing.
Episode Sponsored by The HelpHUB™
Struggling with your mental health? Feeling lost, overwhelmed, or just alone? Well, you're not. Welcome to The HelpHUB™—your online destination for mental health resources, treatment options, content, and tools to help meet you exactly where you are in the moment. Visit TheHelpHUB.co to get started.
Takeaways
- Trauma bonding can create lifelong connections and understanding
- Survivor's guilt and the importance of shared grief
- The impact of childhood loss on adult life
- The role of therapy and work in healing from trauma
- The significance of community and support in recovery
Chapters
00:00 - The Unforgettable Bond 02:14 - A Night of Chaos and Connection 04:38 - Life at Sea: A Family Legacy 07:28 - The Fateful Call 09:55 - The Storm and Its Aftermath 12:33 - The Moment of Truth 14:35 - Seeking Solace 17:03 - Finding Comfort in Friendship 21:02 - Confronting Grief and Seeking Closure 22:34 - The Impact of Shared Experiences 23:56 - The Legacy of Loss and Survival 25:07 - Navigating Childhood Trauma 26:47 - The Loneliness of Loss 28:18 - The Isolation of Grief 30:55 - The Weight of Unshared Experiences 33:44 - The Struggle with Substance Abuse 38:34 - Finding Meaning in Tragedy 42:00 - The Journey of Healing and Growth
Mental Health Resources
- If you or someone you know is struggling, please call 988 for help.
- The Survivors Podcast Website – https://thesurvivors.net/
- The HelpHUB™ – Mental health resources, tools, and support networks – https://www.thehelphub.co/
- National Domestic Violence Hotline – Call 1-800-799-SAFE (7223)
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See you next week! In the meantime, keep surviving.
00:00:00 --> 00:00:04 Hey friends, before we dive into this week's episode, just a heads up.
00:00:04 --> 00:00:08 Our podcast talks about suicide, sexual abuse, and other trauma,
00:00:08 --> 00:00:12 and some of what you hear may be triggering. So please listen with care.
00:00:13 --> 00:00:18 This is The Survivors, real stories, raw conversations, and the truth about
00:00:18 --> 00:00:21 what it means to keep going after the hardest things.
00:00:21 --> 00:00:24 We're so glad you're here. Let's keep surviving together.
00:00:26 --> 00:00:33 So some stories stay with you, and they live inside your bones.
00:00:33 --> 00:00:35 And this is one of those stories for me.
00:00:36 --> 00:00:43 Today's guest is not just somebody who I admire and love.
00:00:44 --> 00:00:46 He's one of my oldest friends, Caleb Powers.
00:00:47 --> 00:00:52 Caleb and I have been close, close friends since we were 13.
00:00:52 --> 00:00:58 One of the deepest reasons that he and I share such a bond is because of what
00:00:58 --> 00:01:03 happened on one very, very unforgettable night in the winter of 1983.
00:01:05 --> 00:01:12 His dad, Richard Powers, was the chief engineer of the Marine Electric, the SS Marine Electric.
00:01:12 --> 00:01:16 It was a coal ship, and it sank during a very violent storm off the coast of
00:01:16 --> 00:01:21 Virginia on the 12th of February in 1983. But Caleb's going to talk about that in a little bit.
00:01:22 --> 00:01:27 So some nights become part of your DNA, and this is mine. This is the one that became part of mine.
00:01:27 --> 00:01:29 Hi, honey. Welcome to the pod.
00:01:30 --> 00:01:34 It's good to be here. I'm glad you're here. Very glad you're here.
00:01:34 --> 00:01:36 And you just got a chance to meet Natasha for the first time,
00:01:36 --> 00:01:38 too, which is... Again? Yes.
00:01:39 --> 00:01:44 This is exciting. And for the record, you have never spoken publicly.
00:01:45 --> 00:01:48 Really, not like this. You've never been on a podcast before talking about this, right?
00:01:49 --> 00:01:56 No, no, this is a first. So feeling pretty grateful that you're doing it here, doing it with us.
00:01:56 --> 00:02:01 So before we talk a little bit about that night and the night that everything happened.
00:02:02 --> 00:02:06 I think people should understand, like, our history because it's very long.
00:02:06 --> 00:02:09 We've been close since we were, were we 12 or 13?
00:02:09 --> 00:02:13 Somewhere in there. Somewhere in there. It's all kind of a blur. Eighth grade?
00:02:14 --> 00:02:17 Yeah, eighth grade. And one of the reasons we've stayed so connected over these
00:02:17 --> 00:02:23 years is because we are trauma-bonded in a way that a lot of people will never
00:02:23 --> 00:02:24 be trauma-bonded with anyone.
00:02:25 --> 00:02:30 Because of what happened to your dad only a handful of years after I lost my
00:02:30 --> 00:02:35 own dad. And so I was there the night that everything happened with you and
00:02:35 --> 00:02:37 your dad, but we want to hear it from you.
00:02:38 --> 00:02:45 So take us back to that night and what happened. All right.
00:02:45 --> 00:02:49 So I guess like one of the things that's important,
00:02:50 --> 00:02:58 it's important to know is that every, you know, every like man in my family
00:02:58 --> 00:03:03 on my mom's side and my dad's side made a living at sea.
00:03:04 --> 00:03:10 All the guys on my dad's side were merchant mariners. And then on my mom's side, it was Navy.
00:03:11 --> 00:03:16 My mother's father actually worked in a naval shipyard. My uncle was on submarines.
00:03:16 --> 00:03:19 So there's salt water in our veins. It was kind of destiny.
00:03:19 --> 00:03:24 Like one of those two paths was the path that I was, I think, supposed to take.
00:03:25 --> 00:03:31 And, you know, the life at sea is not, I mean, basically my dad was gone three
00:03:31 --> 00:03:37 months at a time when I was a kid. He would get on a ship in New York and sail to Israel.
00:03:37 --> 00:03:44 And he'd be gone for three months. and kind of tough to keep a family together.
00:03:44 --> 00:03:50 And so my mother and my father got divorced when I was little,
00:03:50 --> 00:03:51 like maybe three or four.
00:03:52 --> 00:03:57 I stayed very close with my dad. I mean, there was something that was just so
00:03:57 --> 00:04:00 like, how do I describe it, though?
00:04:01 --> 00:04:05 The romance of the merchant mariner life. I mean, it was incredible.
00:04:06 --> 00:04:13 Growing up as a kid and hearing stories about Australia and the Azores and Israel
00:04:13 --> 00:04:18 and just these incredible stories that my dad would tell when he would come
00:04:18 --> 00:04:19 back from these long trips.
00:04:20 --> 00:04:26 He would send us letters and he would illustrate these letters with drawings of kangaroos.
00:04:27 --> 00:04:30 And he would write these. I mean, these were like, you know,
00:04:30 --> 00:04:35 I mean, it's not like quite swashbuckling stuff, but it was certainly something
00:04:35 --> 00:04:36 that captured my imagination.
00:04:36 --> 00:04:43 And so I, I had a, like, I had a fantasy around life at sea and he would bring
00:04:43 --> 00:04:45 back like super cool things.
00:04:46 --> 00:04:51 It's not necessarily politically correct now, but I have sperm whale teeth from
00:04:51 --> 00:04:54 the Azores that were hand-carved.
00:04:54 --> 00:05:00 I've got some of those, I forget what the dolls that sit inside the dolls that
00:05:00 --> 00:05:02 sit inside the dolls. Those are matryoshka dolls.
00:05:02 --> 00:05:10 Yeah, like authentic Russian versions of those. Wooden shoes from Denmark.
00:05:10 --> 00:05:15 And these things would come back from these faraway places, And it was just,
00:05:15 --> 00:05:18 it was just an incredible thing.
00:05:18 --> 00:05:23 And so I, I had a, I had a fantasy about it and, you know, and there was a part
00:05:23 --> 00:05:25 of me that was just drawn to that.
00:05:25 --> 00:05:28 And, you know, everything's bigger when you're a kid, when you're small,
00:05:28 --> 00:05:33 but like my dad was big, he was a big dude. And he had this kind of like.
00:05:34 --> 00:05:38 Swagger. It was like, it was like this, you know, it was like he was always
00:05:38 --> 00:05:41 on a ship, you know, he was always kind of like rocking when he rocked,
00:05:41 --> 00:05:44 when he walked, you know, he just had sea legs.
00:05:45 --> 00:05:47 He was a neat, neat guy.
00:05:48 --> 00:05:52 You know, I found out, like, as I grew up and as my, you know,
00:05:53 --> 00:05:57 my relationship changed with him, my dad was fighting his own demons.
00:05:57 --> 00:06:01 There was no question about that. And I think, you know, part of that life at
00:06:01 --> 00:06:02 sea was wrapped up in that.
00:06:03 --> 00:06:10 And so I had a fascination with, and that was the path for me.
00:06:11 --> 00:06:15 And I would, from time to time, you know, there's some really vivid memories
00:06:15 --> 00:06:21 that I have of, I slept overnight on a ship in New York Harbor.
00:06:23 --> 00:06:29 We drove down and I got to like, you know, bunk with my dad on this ship in
00:06:29 --> 00:06:31 New York Harbor. And then. I don't think I knew that.
00:06:32 --> 00:06:36 No, no, that was. And then there was another one where, when he was working
00:06:36 --> 00:06:39 on the ferry boats down at Woods Hole.
00:06:39 --> 00:06:45 And I got to take a trip with them. You know, we went down there and I hung
00:06:45 --> 00:06:47 out on the engine room and...
00:06:49 --> 00:06:54 I was the wiper boy. Of course you were. And I got a rag. It's a perfect job for you.
00:06:55 --> 00:07:00 And the wiper boy, his job was to carry a rag, and he would go around to all
00:07:00 --> 00:07:03 the gauges in the engine room, and he'd wipe the grease off the gauges.
00:07:04 --> 00:07:07 And I just felt so like, you know, I'm the man.
00:07:07 --> 00:07:11 You were a hot shit back then with your little rag. I was such a hot shit with
00:07:11 --> 00:07:16 my little rag in the engine room. And then we got to Vineyard Haven,
00:07:17 --> 00:07:19 which is where the ferry boats docked.
00:07:19 --> 00:07:24 And he said, hey, come on, this is when we go look at all the pretty girls.
00:07:24 --> 00:07:28 And we went up top and kind of walked around Vineyard Haven a little bit and
00:07:28 --> 00:07:32 then got back on the ship and went back.
00:07:32 --> 00:07:37 So you have these glorified memories of him. Like he was larger than life for sure.
00:07:38 --> 00:07:43 I mean, I remember it. Even just you talking about him before everything happened that year.
00:07:43 --> 00:07:50 That he was this cool dude with this kind of exotic lifestyle in some ways.
00:07:50 --> 00:07:53 And I even remember that back then. What happened?
00:07:53 --> 00:07:57 Take us back to that night, and it's just burned into my own brain.
00:07:57 --> 00:07:59 It's just such a core memory for me.
00:07:59 --> 00:08:02 It's February 12th. It's 1983.
00:08:02 --> 00:08:06 Yeah, it was. So there's sort of a, that
00:08:06 --> 00:08:08 whole prelude was the lead up
00:08:08 --> 00:08:12 to my actual official introduction to
00:08:12 --> 00:08:15 life at sea which was when i was
00:08:15 --> 00:08:18 15 and so at
00:08:18 --> 00:08:21 that point in his career he had he was
00:08:21 --> 00:08:26 he was running a a ship from norfolk virginia to fall river massachusetts he
00:08:26 --> 00:08:33 was living in maine at the time he was no longer doing these you know long hauls
00:08:33 --> 00:08:38 across the ocean It was inshore, it was close,
00:08:39 --> 00:08:43 it was just a standard gig. And that was...
00:08:44 --> 00:08:47 Like that's what you wanted you wanted the one you know
00:08:47 --> 00:08:51 you wanted the run that kept you at you know close to home and and
00:08:51 --> 00:08:54 so it was norfolk to far river and
00:08:54 --> 00:08:56 back and you know a week on or like
00:08:56 --> 00:09:00 two weeks on and then two weeks off there was another there was another engineer
00:09:00 --> 00:09:04 that would you know he'd do two weeks and then my dad would do two weeks and
00:09:04 --> 00:09:09 there it was it was a perfect introduction for me because it wasn't you know
00:09:09 --> 00:09:14 it wasn't two months at sea yeah like like i'd be
00:09:14 --> 00:09:18 You know, a 15-year-old kid would be just stir-crazy at that point. It was like four days.
00:09:19 --> 00:09:23 And that was going to be my introduction to the life at sea,
00:09:23 --> 00:09:28 was I was going to play hooky from school and fly down to Virginia,
00:09:29 --> 00:09:32 get on the boat, sail up to Fall River.
00:09:32 --> 00:09:36 And then that was going to be it. It was like, I think, two days,
00:09:36 --> 00:09:37 maybe three days. I forget what.
00:09:38 --> 00:09:42 But I got the plane ticket, and I told my friends, I'm playing hooky for two
00:09:42 --> 00:09:44 days. We all knew. We all knew you were going.
00:09:44 --> 00:09:49 I'm going to be on a boat with my dad, and this is it. This is like the—this
00:09:49 --> 00:09:51 is my introduction. This is destiny.
00:09:52 --> 00:09:58 And at least that's kind of how I felt. I mean, I really felt like this was—yeah,
00:09:58 --> 00:10:01 this was kind of like the moment I'd been waiting for.
00:10:01 --> 00:10:04 It was your beginning. Yeah. And—.
00:10:05 --> 00:10:10 So the flight was down on a Wednesday, and then we were going to get to Fall
00:10:10 --> 00:10:12 River maybe on Saturday or Sunday.
00:10:13 --> 00:10:17 I don't remember exactly what it was, but the Tuesday, my dad called,
00:10:17 --> 00:10:20 and he said, you can't come.
00:10:20 --> 00:10:23 And I was just heartbroken. I remember.
00:10:23 --> 00:10:30 The disappointment was, you know, just catastrophic. I was so bummed.
00:10:30 --> 00:10:33 I was crying, saying, please, please.
00:10:34 --> 00:10:38 And he said the weather's gonna be bad you can't come you're not gonna have
00:10:38 --> 00:10:44 any fun and i said no i mean this like i mean we all know being the kid who
00:10:44 --> 00:10:47 like wants to do something and the adult says,
00:10:47 --> 00:10:52 because they know better like you're not gonna have any fun and but but being
00:10:52 --> 00:10:55 a 15 year old kid it's it's like the whole thing is gonna be fun it doesn't
00:10:55 --> 00:10:59 matter if if the weather's bad i don't care i just want to go it's gonna be
00:10:59 --> 00:11:03 fun we're gonna eat food on the ship we're gonna sleep on the ship i'm gonna
00:11:03 --> 00:11:07 be the wiper boy again like it doesn't matter and he said no you can't come,
00:11:07 --> 00:11:11 and and i and i and i like hemmed and hawed and hemmed and hawed and finally
00:11:11 --> 00:11:17 like he got really stern with me he was like no you can't go and that's it and
00:11:17 --> 00:11:22 you know i knew i knew enough at that point like all right that's it was that
00:11:22 --> 00:11:25 your last words that you heard from your dad.
00:11:26 --> 00:11:30 Yeah. Yeah, that was it. That was it. And I, you know, sniffles and all,
00:11:31 --> 00:11:34 crying, got off the phone, just super bummed.
00:11:35 --> 00:11:39 Super bummed. And that was that. It was February 1983.
00:11:39 --> 00:11:44 It was friggin' cold out. I mean, it was, there was snow on the ground and it was cold.
00:11:45 --> 00:11:50 We had a storm. It was, it was a storm that night. Yeah, it was the dead of winter.
00:11:50 --> 00:11:56 I mean, you think about what February was like around here this year. Yeah, it was nasty.
00:11:56 --> 00:12:02 And so I went to school like the next day.
00:12:03 --> 00:12:09 This is all like I haven't got into the detail of this part in forever,
00:12:09 --> 00:12:11 so it's not like super clear.
00:12:11 --> 00:12:15 But at some point in the evening, and I don't know if it was like Wednesday
00:12:15 --> 00:12:17 evening or Thursday evening,
00:12:17 --> 00:12:24 I got a phone call And I was upstairs in my room The phone rang And I don't
00:12:24 --> 00:12:28 know you guys Like I felt something Did you answer the phone?
00:12:28 --> 00:12:33 No, no, no, my mom did So we had two phones, one upstairs And this was like,
00:12:33 --> 00:12:40 you know In the day Those kinds of phones Rotary phone And I just,
00:12:40 --> 00:12:41 like there was something,
00:12:42 --> 00:12:50 Like in my Like in my soul, like something Was up The ringing of the phone was different.
00:12:51 --> 00:12:53 I knew somewhere that.
00:12:55 --> 00:12:59 Something had happened. And I ran downstairs and I heard my mother saying,
00:12:59 --> 00:13:03 oh my God, oh my God, oh my God.
00:13:04 --> 00:13:10 And she wrote something on a piece of paper and she held it up to my stepfather.
00:13:10 --> 00:13:16 And I was like kind of looking into the kitchen and she showed it to him and
00:13:16 --> 00:13:19 she put it on the table and I walked over and she put her hand on it.
00:13:19 --> 00:13:25 And she was saying, okay, okay, okay. And she hung up the phone and I pulled
00:13:25 --> 00:13:29 up her hand and on this piece of paper, it said, Dick's ship. And I was like, what?
00:13:29 --> 00:13:35 And it was like, I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, it was right there on a piece of paper.
00:13:35 --> 00:13:39 What did that moment feel like to you? I don't even know if in all these decades,
00:13:39 --> 00:13:41 Kay, if I've ever asked you that.
00:13:41 --> 00:13:45 Did you think it automatically meant that he was gone? No, no.
00:13:45 --> 00:13:52 I think there was a lot of, so i think i think that there's numbness like all
00:13:52 --> 00:13:54 of a sudden everything goes kind of quiet,
00:13:54 --> 00:13:57 you know you're kind of like hearing it's like one
00:13:57 --> 00:14:01 of those like a scene in a movie where you know it's a it's a war movie and
00:14:01 --> 00:14:05 there's a battle and all of a sudden like something explodes nearby and like
00:14:05 --> 00:14:10 you know they get that muffled you can hear rubble kind of tinkling around it's
00:14:10 --> 00:14:17 like muffled sort of so i think that i think it's there's like shock but i didn't i I didn't really,
00:14:17 --> 00:14:21 I didn't think anything catastrophic.
00:14:21 --> 00:14:26 I didn't think, I mean, like you look at these ships, they're 600 and something
00:14:26 --> 00:14:29 feet long. Like nothing could sink that. Mm-hmm.
00:14:30 --> 00:14:37 So I, but I, but like I said, like I had some, something went inside me.
00:14:37 --> 00:14:40 Like I felt when that phone rang,
00:14:40 --> 00:14:47 I felt like something had happened and I knew. You knew it wasn't good.
00:14:47 --> 00:14:52 No, it was definitely, it was definitely not good. And it was actually his sister
00:14:52 --> 00:15:00 who called my mom to tell her. And I don't know a whole bunch about what happened
00:15:00 --> 00:15:02 next, but I remember saying...
00:15:03 --> 00:15:06 I want to go to Lisa's house. It was just, I want to go to Lisa's house.
00:15:07 --> 00:15:10 I will never forget that phone call as long as I live.
00:15:10 --> 00:15:14 I don't even remember calling you. You did. I barely even knew it was you.
00:15:14 --> 00:15:18 Like, there's so much about that night that I remember, and there's so much
00:15:18 --> 00:15:20 that's just, it's foggy for me.
00:15:21 --> 00:15:25 There are just knowings of things that went on. I know that there was a lot
00:15:25 --> 00:15:27 of crying. I know that there was a lot of chaos.
00:15:28 --> 00:15:31 And I remember it was kind of late at night. It was way too late for you to
00:15:31 --> 00:15:33 normally call me. I knew that much.
00:15:34 --> 00:15:39 It was just not a time that you would have called. And I just remember not even
00:15:39 --> 00:15:41 realizing at first that it was you because you were hysterical.
00:15:42 --> 00:15:45 Do you remember that? No. You were just, yeah, you were crying.
00:15:45 --> 00:15:47 You were just overwhelmed, overcome.
00:15:47 --> 00:15:50 Yeah. And you said, I need to come over right now. And I was like,
00:15:50 --> 00:15:53 what? It's a snowstorm. Who's going to take, how are you going to go?
00:15:53 --> 00:15:55 You can't even ride a bike. I mean, you used to ride your bike everywhere.
00:15:56 --> 00:15:59 No, I'm coming over. I'm running over.
00:15:59 --> 00:16:04 I just remember you said something about your dad, but I couldn't understand what you were saying.
00:16:04 --> 00:16:07 And I think maybe 10 minutes later, you showed up at my front. You sprinted.
00:16:08 --> 00:16:11 I don't even think you had a jacket on. No, I didn't.
00:16:11 --> 00:16:14 Your tears were frozen to your face. I remember going downstairs and I opened
00:16:14 --> 00:16:17 up the front door and I went into my mom's room. I said, Mom,
00:16:17 --> 00:16:18 Caleb's coming over. Something's wrong.
00:16:19 --> 00:16:24 And I mean, my mother, you have such an incredible relationship with my mother.
00:16:25 --> 00:16:26 And both of us were waiting.
00:16:26 --> 00:16:32 And you came in the door and you just fell to pieces. You fell apart and somehow
00:16:32 --> 00:16:39 we kind of got it out of you. What, what had gone on and what you were waiting to find out.
00:16:39 --> 00:16:45 Do you remember anything else? Do you remember being there and do you remember what it was like?
00:16:45 --> 00:16:47 I remember it was a cold run.
00:16:48 --> 00:16:54 I definitely was like in a pair of jeans and a t-shirt. And like sneakers.
00:16:55 --> 00:16:58 Managed to get my sneakers on and, you know, I mean, it's like,
00:16:58 --> 00:17:02 just think about what February was like this year. And I did,
00:17:02 --> 00:17:05 I ran whatever the two or three miles to your house.
00:17:05 --> 00:17:07 And I remember getting there and...
00:17:09 --> 00:17:14 You know, I think, like, some people might, might, like, hear that part of the
00:17:14 --> 00:17:16 story and think that that's odd.
00:17:16 --> 00:17:21 You know, as a family huddled around waiting for the news, but, like, I dipped.
00:17:22 --> 00:17:30 And I knew that you had lost your dad. And I knew that, like, you got it.
00:17:31 --> 00:17:35 I did. Like, you understood. And to be...
00:17:36 --> 00:17:42 Like to be, you know, and like you said, like a very special relationship with your mom.
00:17:43 --> 00:17:47 You know, like one of the things that I, ever since we were friends,
00:17:47 --> 00:17:54 long before this, your house was just like a, it was a warm, loving place.
00:17:55 --> 00:18:00 Just my own personal story, there was not, you know, I didn't experience like
00:18:00 --> 00:18:03 a lot of loving, warm places.
00:18:03 --> 00:18:07 And so, like, you and your mom were just a warm place, and that's,
00:18:07 --> 00:18:08 like, where I needed to be.
00:18:08 --> 00:18:13 It also helped, I think, probably that you really basically lived at my house,
00:18:13 --> 00:18:16 more or less. I mean, you were there every morning.
00:18:16 --> 00:18:19 Right. We had a very small graduating class, just for context.
00:18:20 --> 00:18:24 We had, what do we have, like 19 kids in our graduating class at this little private school.
00:18:24 --> 00:18:29 And everybody, my house was right on the other side of the fence to the school.
00:18:29 --> 00:18:33 And every morning, it was such a routine. every morning, my mom went downstairs,
00:18:33 --> 00:18:37 opened up the front door, and everybody, including you, would pile in the house.
00:18:37 --> 00:18:40 It would be you, and it would be Todd, and it would be Jason,
00:18:40 --> 00:18:45 and it was all of our crew would filter through the house, and my mother was
00:18:45 --> 00:18:48 feeding everybody, and then everybody went to school, and what did we do after sports?
00:18:48 --> 00:18:52 At the end of the day, everybody came back, and we would eat more and do homework
00:18:52 --> 00:18:59 and play video games and watch movies, and so you pretty much lived at my house for those years.
00:19:00 --> 00:19:03 Hey it's lisa sugarman co-host of the survivors and
00:19:03 --> 00:19:06 founder of the help hub if you're listening right now
00:19:06 --> 00:19:11 and you're not okay if you're feeling overwhelmed stuck or like you're carrying
00:19:11 --> 00:19:15 more than you can handle please know you don't have to go through it alone you
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00:19:22 --> 00:19:25 counselors like me who are there to listen and support you in the moment.
00:19:26 --> 00:19:31 Reaching out is a brave first step and you owe it to yourself because your life
00:19:31 --> 00:19:36 matters, your story matters and help is always just three numbers away.
00:19:38 --> 00:19:44 Yeah, but it wasn't, I mean, like the fact that you, like you had lost your dad.
00:19:44 --> 00:19:48 Like that was, like I just knew that that's where I needed to be.
00:19:48 --> 00:19:50 And it was just sort of an intuitive thing.
00:19:50 --> 00:19:56 And I remember, you know, a few years earlier when my grandmother, Gladys, passed away.
00:19:56 --> 00:20:00 And my mom said, it's just these weird things that happen in those moments.
00:20:00 --> 00:20:05 And my mom said, you know, Nanny passed away. And I said, I want to go see her.
00:20:06 --> 00:20:08 And my mother's like, what? And I said, I want to go see her.
00:20:08 --> 00:20:13 And so literally we drove right over to the hospital and there was my freshly,
00:20:13 --> 00:20:15 freshly dead grandmother.
00:20:15 --> 00:20:22 There was something about like seeing her in that state was important to me. And so. It's closure.
00:20:23 --> 00:20:28 Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, but, but as a, whatever, a 12 year old or
00:20:28 --> 00:20:34 a 13 year old kid, like that's not, it was like a, it was just a, it was a reaction.
00:20:34 --> 00:20:39 I want to go see her. And the same thing that night, I wanted to be with you and your mom.
00:20:41 --> 00:20:45 You knew in that moment that her and her mother, Lisa and her mother,
00:20:45 --> 00:20:48 witnessing your grief was the safest place for you to do that.
00:20:49 --> 00:20:50 Because Lisa had already been through that.
00:20:51 --> 00:21:00 100%. Like there was literally only one person on the planet who could share in that grief.
00:21:00 --> 00:21:06 And if any of us look back over the arc of our lives, we'll see that it wasn't
00:21:06 --> 00:21:13 an accident that I ended up at that school when you ended up at that school and we became friends.
00:21:14 --> 00:21:21 And it's stuff like this that really brings into focus how there are no coincidences
00:21:21 --> 00:21:28 and that the rest of this story is now looking back on it as a 58-year-old man.
00:21:29 --> 00:21:33 See, because I lived it and like you lived your story, like we think,
00:21:33 --> 00:21:35 eh, you know, it's my story.
00:21:35 --> 00:21:40 It's, you know, somewhat unremarkable because I lived it. But when you really
00:21:40 --> 00:21:42 like stop and think about it, it's like, whoa.
00:21:43 --> 00:21:49 Yeah. Like you actually helped me because I was, I don't want to say I was ambivalent
00:21:49 --> 00:21:54 about sharing this story, but I was thinking, you know, there's so many other
00:21:54 --> 00:21:57 more compelling stories out there. And you're like, what are you kidding me?
00:21:57 --> 00:22:00 That's what I said to you. I'm like, you got to be kidding me.
00:22:01 --> 00:22:06 Because I also have that perspective of I understand the significance of your
00:22:06 --> 00:22:09 dad's boat and what your dad did.
00:22:10 --> 00:22:16 Like, let's also make sure we talk about the fact that the three survivors,
00:22:16 --> 00:22:22 one of whom you just got the chance to meet last year, those three men survived because of your dad.
00:22:24 --> 00:22:28 One of the guys definitely lived because of my dad.
00:22:28 --> 00:22:36 And just for more context, 35 guys went into the water and three came out.
00:22:37 --> 00:22:43 It was the worst maritime disaster, I think, in U.S.
00:22:43 --> 00:22:46 History up to that point. There might have been one other one,
00:22:46 --> 00:22:51 but in terms of modern maritime history, it was, like you said earlier.
00:22:52 --> 00:22:59 There isn't a merchant mariner on Earth that doesn't know about the marine electric. It was catastrophic.
00:23:00 --> 00:23:04 And the last thing my dad did was save my life. That's the thing.
00:23:04 --> 00:23:07 And I'm glad that you're the one who said it because I've been waiting to say that.
00:23:07 --> 00:23:15 And that's just one small piece of what makes your story, in my opinion anyway, so remarkable.
00:23:15 --> 00:23:20 I mean, you're right. We do all have a story, and we all choose to share that
00:23:20 --> 00:23:24 story or not share that story on our own terms.
00:23:25 --> 00:23:28 And you look at the fact that you are a survivor of childhood trauma,
00:23:29 --> 00:23:31 like, period. Let's just look at that.
00:23:31 --> 00:23:37 The fact that you lost your father when you were a child, I never considered myself a survivor.
00:23:37 --> 00:23:41 Childhood trauma survivor until my own therapist was like, you know,
00:23:41 --> 00:23:42 you're a trauma survivor.
00:23:42 --> 00:23:47 And I just never connected those dots for some reason. But like me, you are too.
00:23:47 --> 00:23:55 Natasha, you are too for so many reasons. And I mean, the fact that your father's
00:23:55 --> 00:23:58 ship went down the way that it did, I mean, it was all over the news.
00:23:58 --> 00:23:59 I mean, I remember being in my bedroom.
00:24:00 --> 00:24:04 All of us were huddled in my bedroom around the TV watching the funeral,
00:24:04 --> 00:24:10 watching you at the funeral on the nightly news. It was that big of a story.
00:24:10 --> 00:24:11 The whole thing was covered.
00:24:11 --> 00:24:15 And, you know, obviously it's legendary. And this is your dad.
00:24:15 --> 00:24:20 He was the chief engineer on this boat. And so that all makes it remarkable.
00:24:20 --> 00:24:26 The fact that you were supposed to be on that boat with him and that he,
00:24:26 --> 00:24:31 in this ultimate act of fatherhood and love, saved your life.
00:24:32 --> 00:24:35 And that you've lived all these years surviving
00:24:35 --> 00:24:39 that knowing that having that understanding that
00:24:39 --> 00:24:42 you wouldn't be here and wouldn't
00:24:42 --> 00:24:45 be married to Betsy and have your three kids and and
00:24:45 --> 00:24:49 be living this life if he hadn't done that in a
00:24:49 --> 00:24:53 completely unrelated event I
00:24:53 --> 00:24:56 don't know a couple thousand maybe a thousand miles away
00:24:56 --> 00:24:59 his mother died the same night that he
00:24:59 --> 00:25:02 did are you kidding me how did I not know that
00:25:02 --> 00:25:05 I did not know that
00:25:05 --> 00:25:13 nana powers she was in florida nana powers died the same night that he did i
00:25:13 --> 00:25:19 don't even think she knew about what had happened to her son so my grandmother
00:25:19 --> 00:25:25 and my dad in the same night and i uh.
00:25:26 --> 00:25:33 Yeah, it was all a blur. It was unlikely that he was going to be found alive.
00:25:33 --> 00:25:37 I really didn't think. I had let go of that idea.
00:25:38 --> 00:25:44 And yeah, the funeral, it was at the Mariner's house in the North End. I remember.
00:25:44 --> 00:25:49 Where Merchant Mariners would stay when they were in Boston. The cameras.
00:25:49 --> 00:25:55 I don't know, I just felt very... And, you know, I think what happened,
00:25:55 --> 00:25:58 you know, when you talk about trauma and experiencing this stuff,
00:25:59 --> 00:26:04 man, it's like this loneliness in that room with all of those people and all
00:26:04 --> 00:26:11 of those cameras and everybody mourning the loss of all these men and the tragedy of it all.
00:26:11 --> 00:26:17 And I'm in this room and, like, I feel all alone. And I think that's,
00:26:17 --> 00:26:23 you know, been a huge part of just the legacy of this experience for me is this
00:26:23 --> 00:26:25 profound sense of loneliness.
00:26:26 --> 00:26:36 And it's the thing, it was the product, it was created in this experience.
00:26:36 --> 00:26:39 Experience and it just you know
00:26:39 --> 00:26:43 it just stayed with me for years and
00:26:43 --> 00:26:46 years decades of this
00:26:46 --> 00:26:49 you know this loneliness this feeling of
00:26:49 --> 00:26:55 being by myself well i remember you know i lost my father only a couple few
00:26:55 --> 00:27:00 years before you and i even met and i don't know that you and i ever had long
00:27:00 --> 00:27:04 conversations about it i mean i'm sure at the time you knew as much as everybody
00:27:04 --> 00:27:06 else knew which is that my dad had died of a heart attack,
00:27:06 --> 00:27:09 which, of course, now we all know is not the truth.
00:27:09 --> 00:27:14 And as an adult, I found out he died by suicide. But you didn't know that when
00:27:14 --> 00:27:15 we were kids. I didn't know it.
00:27:16 --> 00:27:20 But I remember I was the only kid I knew.
00:27:20 --> 00:27:23 I was the only kid I knew at our school, certainly, because there were only
00:27:23 --> 00:27:25 19 of us. But I was the only kid.
00:27:26 --> 00:27:30 You know, I was at public school, Bell School, when I was in,
00:27:30 --> 00:27:35 I think, what, fifth grade, going into fifth grade the fall that he passed away.
00:27:35 --> 00:27:40 He passed away in August. And I walked to school that first day in September.
00:27:41 --> 00:27:45 And I felt so completely isolated and alone.
00:27:46 --> 00:27:51 I was in this club of one person that no one could relate to and no one,
00:27:51 --> 00:27:58 no, who the hell knew what to say, what to talk about, how to ask questions, how to support.
00:27:58 --> 00:28:03 The faculty didn't, the teachers didn't, the counselors at school didn't know how to handle it.
00:28:03 --> 00:28:08 So I was completely, I don't want to say hung out to dry because no one was
00:28:08 --> 00:28:10 doing it intentionally, but the world was just not set up for that.
00:28:10 --> 00:28:13 And so you were living in the same world I was living in and you and I were
00:28:13 --> 00:28:15 the only ones who didn't have a parent.
00:28:15 --> 00:28:18 Yeah, it was like the club of two, you know?
00:28:18 --> 00:28:22 It was, it was. And it wasn't, I remember like when I learned that you lost
00:28:22 --> 00:28:30 your dad, I just remember thinking, whoa, like what, I wonder what that's like. Like I had no idea.
00:28:30 --> 00:28:34 I mean, I grew up, you know, there was in a blue collar neighborhood.
00:28:34 --> 00:28:39 There was a garage, like a service station garage in my neighborhood.
00:28:39 --> 00:28:42 There was a cop, there was a guy that, you know,
00:28:42 --> 00:28:46 was a bartender and there was an offshore fisherman
00:28:46 --> 00:28:52 and it's so like my dad he went to see this guy down the street he was an offshore
00:28:52 --> 00:28:58 fisherman and something like 19 i don't know i was probably six the mid-70s
00:28:58 --> 00:29:05 like that guy was lost at sea really yeah and i remember his kids grew up without a dad.
00:29:06 --> 00:29:12 Yeah, and the widow. But meeting you and becoming friends with you and my friend
00:29:12 --> 00:29:18 Lisa, whose dad died, it was really, you're right, it was just otherworldly.
00:29:18 --> 00:29:21 How does that even happen? Does that even happen?
00:29:21 --> 00:29:23 Not to anybody we knew. No.
00:29:24 --> 00:29:30 Mm-mm. No. So do you mind, what changed immediately in your world after your dad died?
00:29:30 --> 00:29:35 Looking for mental health resources that actually fit who you are and where you come from?
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00:30:20 --> 00:30:23 Like that, like that loneliness just dominated.
00:30:25 --> 00:30:31 My life after that was feeling like this profound sense of like uniqueness. And you're right, Lisa.
00:30:32 --> 00:30:37 Like, what do you say? What does a teacher, what does a parent say?
00:30:37 --> 00:30:42 And that's a great question because one of the things that changed was like
00:30:42 --> 00:30:46 everybody was like, oh, it's him.
00:30:47 --> 00:30:48 His dad died.
00:30:49 --> 00:30:52 And I felt that from everybody.
00:30:52 --> 00:30:55 Like instantly and and
00:30:55 --> 00:30:58 you know at 15 years old like you know you
00:30:58 --> 00:31:02 only want to belong like don't stand out thing
00:31:02 --> 00:31:05 anything like anything that's different about you
00:31:05 --> 00:31:09 get rid of it and here i was with
00:31:09 --> 00:31:12 a letter yeah really but it wasn't
00:31:12 --> 00:31:16 you know it wasn't it wasn't like oh he's
00:31:16 --> 00:31:19 you know he's a like he's a troublemaker he's
00:31:19 --> 00:31:23 a bad kid it was just nobody
00:31:23 --> 00:31:26 knew what do you do what do
00:31:26 --> 00:31:33 you do for a kid like that and I think I think that's sort of enhanced that
00:31:33 --> 00:31:42 sense of loneliness was just like you I was the kid that lost a dad like a really
00:31:42 --> 00:31:45 awful story lost his dad and And.
00:31:47 --> 00:31:51 So that changed. I also think that, like, the trauma, I mean,
00:31:51 --> 00:31:53 we're kids. You don't know how to process this.
00:31:54 --> 00:31:58 There's so many, like, that profound sense of loss, just being overwhelmed,
00:31:58 --> 00:32:02 and not having the tools, the wherewithal to process it.
00:32:02 --> 00:32:04 Like, I shut off.
00:32:05 --> 00:32:08 I want to ask you something that we've never talked about before,
00:32:09 --> 00:32:11 that I've been reflecting on a lot in my own life.
00:32:11 --> 00:32:16 So my own therapist asked me not long ago a question that really...
00:32:17 --> 00:32:21 Had a profound impact on me. So I want to say it to you and hear your opinion.
00:32:21 --> 00:32:27 She asked me, back when my father died when I was 10, she said,
00:32:27 --> 00:32:30 who was asking you how you were?
00:32:30 --> 00:32:35 I said, nobody. And look, you, of all people on this planet,
00:32:35 --> 00:32:37 know my mother so well and know
00:32:37 --> 00:32:42 how loving and how present and how supportive she is as a human being.
00:32:43 --> 00:32:47 She, you know, of course, was with me. We were sharing our grief to the extent
00:32:47 --> 00:32:52 that we would cry together and try to carry on life together.
00:32:52 --> 00:32:56 But there were no questions being asked, not even by my mother,
00:32:56 --> 00:33:00 like, how are you? No one knew what to say or how to say it.
00:33:01 --> 00:33:05 And so they didn't say anything. And for me, it was like, not only did they
00:33:05 --> 00:33:10 not ask how I was or what I needed, it was like my father was erased.
00:33:10 --> 00:33:13 Nobody talked about, like, we don't want to talk about, We don't want to talk
00:33:13 --> 00:33:16 about Jim because if we talk about Jim, it's going to make them upset.
00:33:16 --> 00:33:21 It's going to be harder for them. So it was like, not only do I feel completely
00:33:21 --> 00:33:27 isolated and alone, but every memory of my dad now, it felt like he was erased.
00:33:28 --> 00:33:33 Did you feel that? I think I just wanted to be like normal.
00:33:33 --> 00:33:38 So I guess the other thing to, like, we had started experimenting with drugs
00:33:38 --> 00:33:46 and alcohol, and what I experienced in losing my dad was sort of the perfect catalyst for alcohol.
00:33:47 --> 00:33:53 You know, substance abuse, like trying to find a way to manage the feelings
00:33:53 --> 00:34:01 that a 15-year-old boy has with the best, you know, intact parents and a loving home.
00:34:01 --> 00:34:07 Managing just adolescence is hard enough, but throw something like this into
00:34:07 --> 00:34:09 the mix and it's too much.
00:34:09 --> 00:34:14 It's just too much. And so, you know, I just numbed it out. I numbed it out.
00:34:14 --> 00:34:21 And I developed, honestly, if I'm really honest about it, like drugs and alcohol
00:34:21 --> 00:34:22 saved my life at that point.
00:34:23 --> 00:34:26 It made living in this world tolerable for me.
00:34:26 --> 00:34:30 You want to admit right here and now that the first party I ever had was because
00:34:30 --> 00:34:34 you grabbed a case of beer from our school and threw it over the fence to my
00:34:34 --> 00:34:36 yard. And we had a party when my mom was at the school.
00:34:37 --> 00:34:42 Why was there beer at your school? long story I think it was but it was some
00:34:42 --> 00:34:47 event at the school that all the parents came to and they had like a they had
00:34:47 --> 00:34:51 like a bar for the parents and I you know the.
00:34:52 --> 00:34:57 Budding juvenile delinquent that I was. No, you were fully, you were fully a delinquent.
00:34:57 --> 00:35:00 Grabbed the case of beer and chucked it over the fence.
00:35:01 --> 00:35:06 And, but I, like, I found relief from all of that stuff.
00:35:06 --> 00:35:09 And I think the other thing that when you asked that question,
00:35:09 --> 00:35:12 Natasha, the other thought that I had was that I stopped caring.
00:35:13 --> 00:35:16 It was too painful to care about anything.
00:35:16 --> 00:35:22 And that's, I think, the thing that really, like, that's the thing that broke.
00:35:22 --> 00:35:27 Was my desire to, my ability to care about anything, schoolwork,
00:35:28 --> 00:35:30 relationships, integrity, honesty.
00:35:30 --> 00:35:35 Like I just couldn't afford emotionally. And maybe it was because I had nothing,
00:35:35 --> 00:35:39 you know, nothing left emotionally, but I couldn't care about,
00:35:39 --> 00:35:41 yeah, it was too painful to care about anything.
00:35:42 --> 00:35:44 And so it was just easier to disassociate.
00:35:44 --> 00:35:51 Yeah. And, and, you know, So the fact that I did suffer this awful thing,
00:35:51 --> 00:35:58 this terrible experience, just created an excuse, a reason for me to...
00:36:00 --> 00:36:03 Disassociate, to disconnect, to shut down.
00:36:04 --> 00:36:09 And to disappear into alcohol and into drugs.
00:36:09 --> 00:36:13 You know, when I think about you and I think about this whole story and your
00:36:13 --> 00:36:20 life, you've spent your whole life knowing that you were supposed to be on that ship too.
00:36:20 --> 00:36:23 It gets me really emotional as the person who
00:36:23 --> 00:36:26 was there that night watching you walk
00:36:26 --> 00:36:29 through my front door not knowing if your dad was alive
00:36:29 --> 00:36:33 or not that loss that tragedy
00:36:33 --> 00:36:36 that knowing that it was almost you too
00:36:36 --> 00:36:40 has shaped your life it's
00:36:40 --> 00:36:43 it's really shaped your life do you
00:36:43 --> 00:36:53 think about that often yeah absolutely like i mean now lifetime later i look
00:36:53 --> 00:37:01 at that and it's it's I lost everything and gained everything.
00:37:02 --> 00:37:09 In that. Like, I lost everything inside of me, but everything that I am and
00:37:09 --> 00:37:12 have today is because of that.
00:37:12 --> 00:37:19 I mean, I've been in therapy most of my life. I mean, like, that's kind of like, that was the answer.
00:37:19 --> 00:37:22 Like, hey, send him, you know, send him to another therapist.
00:37:23 --> 00:37:26 And for so much of my life that
00:37:26 --> 00:37:29 experience was a bottomless pit
00:37:29 --> 00:37:33 of sadness tragedy loss
00:37:33 --> 00:37:39 that's what it was it was just this awful awful thing and it it's only been
00:37:39 --> 00:37:45 probably in the last 15 years that i can say i got everything because of that
00:37:45 --> 00:37:50 i lost everything and i got everything because of that And I think that's,
00:37:50 --> 00:37:55 I don't know why that shift took place. I think I do. I think it's just work.
00:37:55 --> 00:37:59 I think it's just doing the work and crawling around inside and trying to put
00:37:59 --> 00:38:01 the pieces back together again,
00:38:01 --> 00:38:08 you know, having my own kids and not being a guy that went to sea and all of
00:38:08 --> 00:38:12 a sudden realizing that, like you said, there was a lot of things that happened
00:38:12 --> 00:38:14 after the Marine Electric sank.
00:38:14 --> 00:38:19 And there was a big, you know, there was a big lawsuit because the ship wasn't
00:38:19 --> 00:38:24 seaworthy and there were a lot of things that were happening at that time in the industry.
00:38:24 --> 00:38:29 That boat was actually, I don't know, a couple of months from going into dry
00:38:29 --> 00:38:35 dock or they were going to put it into dry dock and refurb the whole thing or scrap it.
00:38:35 --> 00:38:37 I mean, literally, it was like two months.
00:38:37 --> 00:38:41 And they were, you know, it was like, ah, we'll get a couple of more out of
00:38:41 --> 00:38:46 her. The guys that survived afterwards were in front of Congress saying there
00:38:46 --> 00:38:49 were big-time problems with that boat. I remember.
00:38:50 --> 00:38:58 And so as a result of my dad's sacrifice, I know that there are boys that grow
00:38:58 --> 00:39:00 up with dads who go to sea.
00:39:01 --> 00:39:07 More of them. And there's fewer kids who grow up with what I grew up with.
00:39:07 --> 00:39:12 Survival suits, GPS, tracking, safety, inspections.
00:39:13 --> 00:39:19 Congress went to the Coast Guard and said, this can never happen again.
00:39:19 --> 00:39:23 And the Coast Guard created what we
00:39:23 --> 00:39:25 now know is the Rescue Swimmer program which is
00:39:25 --> 00:39:29 the gold standard in maritime search
00:39:29 --> 00:39:35 and rescue i mean every every you know like a coast guard equivalent around
00:39:35 --> 00:39:40 the world comes to the united states to learn about what we learned about that
00:39:40 --> 00:39:48 night yeah that's right and you know i've met the pilots that fly those choppers and.
00:39:49 --> 00:39:52 So, like, I could talk about that and I could talk about how,
00:39:52 --> 00:39:58 you know, my sober life and how living a sober life after, you know,
00:39:58 --> 00:40:02 what I experienced as a kid and what that's given me. And, I mean, there's just.
00:40:02 --> 00:40:08 There's a lot there. Yeah, there's a lot. There's a lot there other than the
00:40:08 --> 00:40:11 sadness and the loss and the loneliness.
00:40:12 --> 00:40:20 And although that's a very real piece of this, that's not the legacy. No, it's not.
00:40:20 --> 00:40:25 And, you know, I think this is a good place to wrap this part of the conversation.
00:40:25 --> 00:40:29 We decided long ago that this was never going to be one single episode,
00:40:29 --> 00:40:36 that this would be at least two parts. And your story has been part of my history
00:40:36 --> 00:40:39 forever, for most of my life.
00:40:39 --> 00:40:44 But it's also, in my opinion, your story is also one of the most profound examples
00:40:44 --> 00:40:52 that I know about learning how to survive and learning how to live after trauma.
00:40:52 --> 00:40:57 So, in part two, we're just going to keep rolling, but it's going to become part two.
00:40:57 --> 00:41:01 Can we talk a little bit about what happened after?
00:41:01 --> 00:41:05 Like, what happened after the Marine Electric went down, when you know Dad was gone,
00:41:05 --> 00:41:13 and how the grief and the anger and identity and the survival shaped the person
00:41:13 --> 00:41:16 that you are right now? Can we talk about that? No.
00:41:18 --> 00:41:22 Never a straight answer with you. Of course. Oh, that's what we're going to
00:41:22 --> 00:41:25 do. So, Caleb, I love you.
00:41:25 --> 00:41:31 I love you too. I love you so much, and I'm so grateful that you allowed your
00:41:31 --> 00:41:34 story to be heard here for the first time.
00:41:35 --> 00:41:39 We will see you right back here next week. I hope everyone who's listened this
00:41:39 --> 00:41:42 far continues because there's a lot more that we want to talk about and unpack.
00:41:43 --> 00:41:47 And in the meantime, everybody just keep surviving, and we'll meet you right
00:41:47 --> 00:41:48 back here with Caleb next week.
00:41:50 --> 00:41:53 Thanks so much for listening and for being part of the Survivors community.
00:41:54 --> 00:41:58 No matter where you are in your story, you're not alone and you're definitely not broken.
00:41:59 --> 00:42:03 Healing takes time and it looks different for everyone. The fact that you're
00:42:03 --> 00:42:07 still here and still trying means you're already doing the hard work.
00:42:07 --> 00:42:11 If something in today's conversation resonated with you, please share it with
00:42:11 --> 00:42:13 someone who might need to hear it too.
00:42:13 --> 00:42:18 That's how we keep these conversations going and remind each other that there's always hope.
00:42:19 --> 00:42:21 And if you or someone you know is struggling, please remember,
00:42:22 --> 00:42:23 help is always out there.
00:42:23 --> 00:42:28 You can call or text 988 anytime to reach a trained crisis counselor like me.
00:42:28 --> 00:42:31 And for more mental health resources, tools, treatment options,
00:42:31 --> 00:42:35 and content to support your mental health, visit thehelphub.co.
00:42:35 --> 00:42:39 We're so grateful you're part of the Survivors family, and we'll be back next
00:42:39 --> 00:42:43 week with another honest conversation about life after the hardest things.
00:42:43 --> 00:42:47 Until then, take care of yourself and your people and keep surviving.