*WARNING: This podcast mentions suicide & trauma and may be triggering.
Episode Summary
In the final regular episode of Season Five of The Survivors, we’re talking about what happens after someone says, “I’m fine.”
Because when you have a feeling they’re not fine, the most important part of the conversation may be what comes next.
How do you move beyond “I’m fine” and create enough space for someone to tell you what’s really going on? What do you ask? What do you listen for? And if you’re worried that someone may be thinking about suicide or self-harm, how do you ask the question directly?
In this episode, we walk through the conversation that could save a life—from noticing subtle signals and asking better follow-up questions to using clear, direct language about suicide. We talk about what to say if someone tells you they’re struggling, how to listen without judgment or immediately trying to fix the problem, and how to stay present when the conversation gets uncomfortable.
And we talk about what happens after that conversation, because checking in once isn’t enough. We share practical ways to keep showing up: set a specific time to check in again, follow through when you say you will, stay connected after a crisis, and remind someone through your actions that they don’t have to carry what they’re going through alone.
You don’t need to be a therapist or a crisis counselor to have a meaningful conversation with someone you’re worried about. You just need to be willing to ask another question, listen to the answer, and stay.
We also share resources, including 988 and The HelpHUB™, where you can find additional crisis resources, tools, and guidance.
Because sometimes the conversation that matters most begins after “I’m fine.”
Episode Sponsored by The HelpHUB™
Struggling with your mental health? Feeling lost, overwhelmed, or just alone? Well, you're not. Welcome to The HelpHUB™—your online destination for mental health resources, treatment options, content, and tools to help meet you exactly where you are in the moment. Visit TheHelpHUB.co to get started.
Key Topics
- Recognizing signs someone is struggling
- Effective ways to ask about mental health
- The role of follow-up after initial support
- How to support someone at risk of suicide
- Resources available for mental health support
- The impact of showing genuine concern
- The importance of not overstepping boundaries
- How to read between the lines in conversations
- The significance of persistent support
- Personal stories of overcoming mental health crises
Takeaways
- Asking 'Are you thinking about harming yourself?' does not plant the idea but validates pain.
- Consistent follow-up can be life-saving, especially after crisis moments.
- Showing up and listening without judgment is crucial.
- People often mask their pain; trust your gut and look for subtle signs.
- Support should be ongoing, not just a one-time check-in.
Mental Health Resources
- If you or someone you know is struggling, please call 988 for help.
- The Survivors Podcast Website – https://thesurvivors.net/
- National Domestic Violence Hotline – Call 1-800-799-SAFE (7223)
- Surviving: Finding Hope After Suicide Loss (Familius Books)
- The HelpHUB™ – Mental health resources, tools, and support networks – https://www.thehelphub.co/
Follow & Connect With Us
📷 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/the_survivors_podcast
🔗 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-survivors-podcast
🎥 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheSurvivorsPodcastChannel
🎵📱TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thesurvivorspodcast
See you next week! In the meantime, keep surviving.
00:00:00 --> 00:00:04 Hey friends, before we dive into this week's episode, just a heads up.
00:00:04 --> 00:00:08 Our podcast talks about suicide, sexual abuse, and other trauma,
00:00:08 --> 00:00:12 and some of what you hear may be triggering. So please listen with care.
00:00:13 --> 00:00:18 This is The Survivors. Real stories, raw conversations, and the truth about
00:00:18 --> 00:00:20 what it means to keep going after the hardest things.
00:00:21 --> 00:00:24 We're so glad you're here. Let's keep surviving together.
00:00:26 --> 00:00:30 So this is, I can't even believe this is our final regular episode of season
00:00:30 --> 00:00:35 five, third full season together, you and me. Isn't that nutty?
00:00:35 --> 00:00:38 It's gone by so fast. I really just, it blows my mind.
00:00:38 --> 00:00:42 It really does. I feel like we just, we just got started. But at the same time,
00:00:42 --> 00:00:45 it feels like we've been together for a lifetime. Sorry. I know.
00:00:45 --> 00:00:47 I know. I love that. See, that's good chemistry. That's what that means.
00:00:48 --> 00:00:54 So I really can't think of a more important conversation to have to kind of
00:00:54 --> 00:00:57 end on before we do our season recap next week.
00:00:58 --> 00:01:01 Because in a lot of ways, it brings us back to the very first conversation that
00:01:01 --> 00:01:06 we had this season, which was that lie we tell ourselves all the time that we
00:01:06 --> 00:01:09 tell people the I'm fine. I'm fine.
00:01:09 --> 00:01:12 So that's what we started talking about this season.
00:01:13 --> 00:01:19 So as we kind of bring it back around you know we can look at it from the other
00:01:19 --> 00:01:25 side like what happens when somebody says they're fine but you in your heart
00:01:25 --> 00:01:27 you don't believe them which,
00:01:27 --> 00:01:30 I know for a fact you and I have both had situations happen like that where
00:01:30 --> 00:01:33 you just know somebody's not okay but they're trying to make you believe that
00:01:33 --> 00:01:41 they are so I you know I thought it would be a neat idea to look at that from the other side.
00:01:41 --> 00:01:46 So here's my question to you. And this is also...
00:01:47 --> 00:01:53 A caveat that we wanted this episode to be kind of a conversation that could
00:01:53 --> 00:01:59 potentially really save someone's life or could help someone out of a very dark spot.
00:01:59 --> 00:02:03 So saying that as kind of the disclaimer, that's what we kind of want to talk
00:02:03 --> 00:02:05 about. And this is the way we're going to do it.
00:02:05 --> 00:02:10 Let me ask you a question. Has that ever happened to you where somebody said
00:02:10 --> 00:02:15 to you, they were totally fine and you could absolutely tell that there was something going on.
00:02:15 --> 00:02:21 What made you realize that what they were saying wasn't really matching up with
00:02:21 --> 00:02:26 what you were seeing and what did you do do you have any moments like that that you can think of.
00:02:26 --> 00:02:30 Well actually yeah just today i received a text message from a very dear friend
00:02:30 --> 00:02:33 of mine i know i've known her since i was 13 years old and,
00:02:34 --> 00:02:39 she sent me a very sweet message of she had i guess five years ago her and her
00:02:39 --> 00:02:44 children were writing every day they would write on a post-it note something
00:02:44 --> 00:02:45 that they were grateful for that day.
00:02:46 --> 00:02:49 And at the end of the year, they were going to go back through and read those.
00:02:49 --> 00:02:53 Anyway, I guess she finally got around to it. Life's been pretty tough for the
00:02:53 --> 00:02:56 last several years. She just lost her mom to cancer at the end of last year.
00:02:57 --> 00:03:01 Yeah. And she had been battling cancer for like three and a half years.
00:03:01 --> 00:03:06 And so anyway, she finally got around to reading them. And she sent me a picture
00:03:06 --> 00:03:10 of all three of these post-it notes within about the same week.
00:03:11 --> 00:03:14 The kids and I and George had been out there for the around the holidays in
00:03:14 --> 00:03:18 2020 I believe and into January the next year
00:03:18 --> 00:03:23 and all three of the post-it notes referenced me and my family being there and
00:03:23 --> 00:03:26 how much it meant to her and how grateful she was to have us there,
00:03:27 --> 00:03:29 and so it just it really meant a lot but,
00:03:30 --> 00:03:34 I when she does things like that you know she shared things like.
00:03:35 --> 00:03:39 I can tell she's struggling. You know, I love it that she's thinking of me,
00:03:39 --> 00:03:43 but something, you know, I've known her so long now that I can tell that's her
00:03:43 --> 00:03:45 reaching out and asking for help.
00:03:46 --> 00:03:50 But without actually saying the words. And so, you know, and instead of saying,
00:03:50 --> 00:03:55 how are you, especially after, you know, losing so many family members,
00:03:55 --> 00:03:58 I get tired of hearing people asking me that question.
00:03:58 --> 00:04:01 And so I like to say, how's your heart?
00:04:02 --> 00:04:07 Or how are you holding up? it's the same question just worded differently and
00:04:07 --> 00:04:09 so I did I said how are you holding up dear,
00:04:10 --> 00:04:15 and she she says I am not doing well I've been better well you know yada yada
00:04:15 --> 00:04:20 a few different things and so we talked back and forth and I just said okay
00:04:21 --> 00:04:23 you know I didn't have the time right today,
00:04:24 --> 00:04:28 but I said how about I give you a call on on Sunday set a time let's catch up,
00:04:29 --> 00:04:32 you know what I mean, so everybody gets busy with their lives.
00:04:33 --> 00:04:38 And she said, just simply asking the question, how is she doing,
00:04:38 --> 00:04:41 showing care and concern, she said that helped.
00:04:42 --> 00:04:46 So, you know, I would say, number one, if you don't have the time right then
00:04:46 --> 00:04:49 and there to talk to somebody, set a day and time.
00:04:49 --> 00:04:55 And as somebody who has survived three attempts myself I would I dare say that
00:04:55 --> 00:04:57 if somebody had reached out to me,
00:04:58 --> 00:05:02 In those moments or close to around those moments and said i'm going to call
00:05:02 --> 00:05:07 you In two days at this time that might have given me something else to hold on to.
00:05:08 --> 00:05:15 And so It's really just a matter of Finding the right words and and knowing yourself.
00:05:16 --> 00:05:20 I was busy. I couldn't now obviously if she was in dire straits I would just
00:05:20 --> 00:05:23 absolutely drop everything and be like call or do what I could so it's about
00:05:23 --> 00:05:26 learning how to read people the conversation,
00:05:26 --> 00:05:31 and seeing where they're at she felt like it felt like she was okay enough that
00:05:31 --> 00:05:33 she could hold on for two days,
00:05:33 --> 00:05:42 so really it's the questions of what's today been like for you what feels heaviest for you right now,
00:05:43 --> 00:05:47 Bigger questions than just how are you that really get them thinking.
00:05:47 --> 00:05:54 Yeah. And I think, too, that warning signs are not as obvious with everybody.
00:05:55 --> 00:05:59 Correct. You know your friend, so you knew to read between the lines a little bit.
00:06:00 --> 00:06:04 It's different for everybody. You know, it could be something like what you
00:06:04 --> 00:06:09 saw with her Post-it notes and you just knew kind of the signal she was sending.
00:06:10 --> 00:06:14 It can be the way somebody communicates with you. Maybe they've gotten quieter.
00:06:14 --> 00:06:18 Maybe they're isolating more. Sometimes you can't even explain it as kind of
00:06:18 --> 00:06:21 a gut reaction. It's kind of a gut feeling like I just know my person and I
00:06:21 --> 00:06:22 know that they're not okay.
00:06:22 --> 00:06:26 You know, but then I think, and this is, I think, an important part of this
00:06:26 --> 00:06:29 conversation that I wanted to have is,
00:06:30 --> 00:06:36 it's the hard part of you have the conversation about how are you really and
00:06:36 --> 00:06:42 then that person maybe confesses to you that they're not okay what do you do,
00:06:43 --> 00:06:47 do you say something do you not say something i know that a lot of people i
00:06:47 --> 00:06:52 know people just in in my own world people i speak to people in my own life,
00:06:53 --> 00:07:00 are hesitant people are hesitant to to push any further because they're terrified
00:07:00 --> 00:07:02 of what the answer might be,
00:07:02 --> 00:07:08 and how to support someone yeah because they're either not familiar or they
00:07:08 --> 00:07:13 don't know what to do which again which is why i love your website the help the help,
00:07:13 --> 00:07:18 hub.co because it offers a tremendous amount of resources on both sides for
00:07:18 --> 00:07:20 somebody that is struggling and
00:07:20 --> 00:07:24 then being a loved one of somebody who is struggling so offers both sides,
00:07:25 --> 00:07:28 and just making sure that i appreciate that yeah absolutely are aware of the
00:07:28 --> 00:07:30 resources that are available to them,
00:07:31 --> 00:07:33 but also you know.
00:07:34 --> 00:07:41 It's really hard i see things from both sides and so i always approach it from
00:07:41 --> 00:07:45 how would i want to be approached or how would i want to be,
00:07:46 --> 00:07:52 supported in that way but then again i have been struggling with you know suicidal
00:07:52 --> 00:07:58 ideation for 30 years yeah so i've gotten really good at hiding it,
00:07:59 --> 00:08:03 yeah you know earlier this year in january i was in february i was going through
00:08:03 --> 00:08:08 a pretty hard time and you who i spoke to on the regular had no idea.
00:08:09 --> 00:08:15 My husband had no idea because I have gotten so good at hiding it.
00:08:15 --> 00:08:17 Those are the ones that we have to keep an eye out for.
00:08:18 --> 00:08:23 Absolutely. Because they hide us so well. Absolutely. And they will never, ever ask for help.
00:08:23 --> 00:08:27 No, they won't. And it becomes difficult as the person who wants to support
00:08:27 --> 00:08:30 someone who you have that feeling about.
00:08:31 --> 00:08:34 Do they want to talk about it? Do they not? Am I overstepping?
00:08:35 --> 00:08:37 Am I making them feel uncomfortable?
00:08:37 --> 00:08:41 Are they going to get annoyed at me? Are they pissed off because I'm asking?
00:08:41 --> 00:08:47 Do they think I'm intruding? So I think it's just, there's a fear underneath
00:08:47 --> 00:08:52 all of those questions that we as the people who are asking them have to be conscious about.
00:08:52 --> 00:08:57 And I think that in some ways, we all have to be willing to push past our own fear of.
00:08:58 --> 00:09:05 Being intrusive and also getting an answer that we don't know how to support so you know,
00:09:06 --> 00:09:14 do you even have any feelings beyond that like of why people are so afraid of the answer,
00:09:15 --> 00:09:19 do you like were you saying the wrong thing yeah i really think it is people,
00:09:20 --> 00:09:24 saying the wrong thing thing or doing the wrong thing that would push that person
00:09:24 --> 00:09:28 even further but here's one thing i can promise you you reaching out to them,
00:09:29 --> 00:09:32 and if even if you don't know what to say you're,
00:09:32 --> 00:09:37 showing up literally showing up even if they the other person's like no i'm
00:09:37 --> 00:09:43 good i guarantee if you showed up to that person's place of residence or wherever
00:09:43 --> 00:09:46 with a box of chocolates or just showed up and said hey,
00:09:46 --> 00:09:48 i wanted to see your face mm-hmm.
00:09:49 --> 00:09:53 That's all it would take. You don't have to say anything. You don't have to
00:09:53 --> 00:09:56 be anything other than to just be in their presence and say,
00:09:56 --> 00:09:58 hey, just wanted to hang out.
00:09:58 --> 00:10:03 Just wanted to be with you. That right there shows the connection and that,
00:10:03 --> 00:10:07 oh, wow, I do matter in somebody's life because that's really what it boils down to
00:10:08 --> 00:10:12 is that the mind plays the tricks on you when you're in this dark place and
00:10:12 --> 00:10:14 it tells you, I don't matter to anybody.
00:10:14 --> 00:10:19 If I disappeared, yeah, sure, people would notice, but would they really?
00:10:20 --> 00:10:23 And it's this never-ending battle that goes on inside your brain.
00:10:23 --> 00:10:27 And so the most powerful thing that you could do for anybody that you feel like
00:10:27 --> 00:10:33 are even questioning, even if you're not 100% sure if they're struggling, show up.
00:10:34 --> 00:10:38 Right then and there. Yeah, yeah. And we've talked about that a lot.
00:10:38 --> 00:10:42 That's been kind of a common thread throughout this season and all the seasons
00:10:42 --> 00:10:45 that we've been recording the podcast.
00:10:46 --> 00:10:49 You know it's not our responsibility and this is I think an important thing
00:10:49 --> 00:10:56 to reinforce it is not our responsibility to fix what is going on with the person
00:10:56 --> 00:11:00 you're worried about and in most cases it's not possible
00:11:00 --> 00:11:06 at least it's not possible to completely resolve somebody else's situation or crisis or pain,
00:11:07 --> 00:11:10 all we can do is is witness it which is you know we talk about that a lot too
00:11:10 --> 00:11:12 that that's so so validating and important,
00:11:13 --> 00:11:17 but like you said just just to to be there,
00:11:17 --> 00:11:22 and say something as simple and and here's just a suggestion of language that
00:11:22 --> 00:11:30 we can use to to kind of follow up the well how are you i'm fine okay now what comes next you know,
00:11:31 --> 00:11:35 instead like you gave some good language and and you can also say something like,
00:11:36 --> 00:11:42 you know i'm asking how you are because you don't seem like yourself you seem
00:11:42 --> 00:11:49 off you seem whatever it is like insert word you seem preoccupied or you seem um.
00:11:51 --> 00:11:56 You know, distracted or whatever it may be.
00:11:56 --> 00:12:06 So I think that it's important to push beyond the acceptable answer.
00:12:07 --> 00:12:11 Are you, I'm just checking in because your video keeps going on.
00:12:11 --> 00:12:14 I don't know what is going on. I think some serious technical,
00:12:14 --> 00:12:19 it just keeps the video and audio keeps showing off. I'm not even touching anything. Huh.
00:12:19 --> 00:12:24 I was just writing down a note of the timestamp of it. Huh, that's weird.
00:12:25 --> 00:12:28 Yeah, I don't know what is there.
00:12:30 --> 00:12:34 It's like a power glitch. I was going to say, is there like a power surge or something?
00:12:36 --> 00:12:41 But I'm not noticing it anywhere else in the house. Okay. Like lights flickering or whatever.
00:12:42 --> 00:12:47 Yeah, it's weird. Okay, I think it's stopped. Okay, sorry. That's cool. Don't be sorry.
00:12:48 --> 00:12:52 That's totally fine. Let's see.
00:12:53 --> 00:12:59 Okay. So there's obviously a really, really big difference between thinking
00:12:59 --> 00:13:01 that somebody seems like down or,
00:13:02 --> 00:13:08 feeling off than being genuinely concerned that somebody might be considering
00:13:08 --> 00:13:11 harming themselves or taking their lives.
00:13:11 --> 00:13:18 And that's where I think this conversation gets particularly uncomfortable,
00:13:18 --> 00:13:21 because now we're talking about asking somebody directly, again,
00:13:21 --> 00:13:26 which we've talked about a lot on the pod, are you thinking about suicide?
00:13:26 --> 00:13:31 And this is the part of that conversation that you and I wanted to have today,
00:13:31 --> 00:13:38 that could be the part that actually saves someone or gets someone the help that they need.
00:13:39 --> 00:13:42 And again, there is still a fear that exists with that kind of question,
00:13:43 --> 00:13:46 but that kind of question is so critically important.
00:13:47 --> 00:13:51 People are afraid that if they ask someone who is struggling,
00:13:51 --> 00:13:53 are you thinking of hurting yourself,
00:13:54 --> 00:13:58 or killing yourself, that that's going to put the idea into that person's head
00:13:58 --> 00:14:03 and push that person closer to doing that thing. That is false.
00:14:04 --> 00:14:11 And I'm speaking now as a crisis counselor who has been trained to take calls
00:14:11 --> 00:14:16 on lifelines, on suicide and crisis lifelines like the 988 lifeline and the Trevor Project.
00:14:18 --> 00:14:22 And it has been proven time and time and time again that when you,
00:14:23 --> 00:14:28 ask someone directly if they have those intentions, that's going to validate
00:14:28 --> 00:14:33 that that person is in pain, that they need help, that they need your support.
00:14:33 --> 00:14:40 So while I know that that's a really tough part of the conversation to have
00:14:40 --> 00:14:43 once you get through the whole, I'm really not fine. Well, okay,
00:14:43 --> 00:14:46 how are you? Well, I'm actually pretty bad. Well, then what?
00:14:47 --> 00:14:51 You got to ask that question. And if you're listening to this conversation right
00:14:51 --> 00:14:56 now and you know someone who you don't think is fine and you want to have a
00:14:56 --> 00:15:00 conversation that can potentially unearth what it is that,
00:15:01 --> 00:15:06 is making them not fine and you want to help them, these are the things that
00:15:06 --> 00:15:13 you need to say to that person to figure out exactly where they're at and where they stand,
00:15:14 --> 00:15:16 and how you can help.
00:15:16 --> 00:15:20 And, you know, you say it in a very calm and straightforward way,
00:15:20 --> 00:15:25 which is, are you thinking about harming yourself? Are you thinking about suicide?
00:15:25 --> 00:15:27 You're not accusing them. You're not judging them.
00:15:28 --> 00:15:32 You're not being dramatic. You're just directly asking them.
00:15:32 --> 00:15:40 And I really appreciate the completely unexpected plug that you gave to the Help Hub.
00:15:41 --> 00:15:46 That's my mental health resources platform online, if anybody doesn't know who's listening.
00:15:47 --> 00:15:51 I have a lot of tools on there, and there is a tool very specifically designed
00:15:51 --> 00:15:56 to help you have that conversation with someone who may not be okay,
00:15:56 --> 00:15:59 who may be in a suicidal or self-harming state of mind.
00:15:59 --> 00:16:03 And so if you're listening to this conversation and you're like,
00:16:03 --> 00:16:05 okay, well, then what do I do?
00:16:05 --> 00:16:11 Well, there are resources. So go to thehelphub.co and go to our suicide and
00:16:11 --> 00:16:17 crisis tab and go to our tools tab and look for the language that can help to guide you.
00:16:18 --> 00:16:22 Hopefully will help you support the person that you're trying to support.
00:16:23 --> 00:16:28 Yeah. And I would encourage everybody to listen to our previous episode this
00:16:28 --> 00:16:34 season with Jessica Shaker, who she was not okay mentally, and she ended up,
00:16:36 --> 00:16:39 committing herself on a 72-hour hold.
00:16:40 --> 00:16:44 Very powerful conversation. I would encourage you to listen to that because
00:16:44 --> 00:16:48 there is a lot of fear you know as a person who has never,
00:16:49 --> 00:16:54 been committed because I was so afraid of what would happen I never fully opened
00:16:54 --> 00:16:58 up and there are countless times that I should have and I I even,
00:16:59 --> 00:17:02 talked somebody out of it I do believe one of the very first time,
00:17:03 --> 00:17:08 somebody caught I think my dad or somebody called a crisis line or something,
00:17:09 --> 00:17:14 and I talked him out of it that I was fine and literally an hour before had had a gun to my head.
00:17:16 --> 00:17:23 I don't, still to this day, I don't know how I have gotten so good at talking
00:17:23 --> 00:17:26 my way out of getting help.
00:17:26 --> 00:17:34 The fear behind getting the help in those moments overrides everything. It's insane to me.
00:17:34 --> 00:17:43 Yeah. Yeah. And it just speaks to the truth of people's ability to mask their
00:17:43 --> 00:17:46 pain and mask their intentions.
00:17:46 --> 00:17:51 And there are just as many people out there in the world who are walking around
00:17:52 --> 00:17:53 sounding and appearing fine.
00:17:54 --> 00:17:59 Looking for mental health resources that actually fit who you are and where you come from?
00:18:00 --> 00:18:03 Then you need to check out the Help Hub. It's not another generic wellness site.
00:18:04 --> 00:18:09 It's a free, inclusive online platform built for real people living real lives.
00:18:10 --> 00:18:16 People managing stress, anxiety, depression, trauma and abuse, grief or suicide loss.
00:18:17 --> 00:18:20 At the Help Hub, you'll find the resources, tools, treatment options,
00:18:20 --> 00:18:23 and trauma-informed content you need in the moment.
00:18:24 --> 00:18:27 Without having to dig through endless tabs or start from scratch.
00:18:28 --> 00:18:33 It's your place to land, to take a breath, and to find exactly what you need when you need it most.
00:18:34 --> 00:18:38 Visit thehelphub.co where the help you need is just a click away.
00:18:43 --> 00:18:49 And they're saying all the right things and maybe even showing up and doing
00:18:49 --> 00:18:52 all the right things. And I'm using big air quotes when I say the right things.
00:18:53 --> 00:18:56 But they just don't look like they're in crisis.
00:18:57 --> 00:19:04 And yet they are. So, again, reinforcement that we need to be brutally honest,
00:19:04 --> 00:19:08 I think, with anyone who's in our orbit, whether it be family or friends or
00:19:08 --> 00:19:12 coworkers. And I think it's our responsibility.
00:19:12 --> 00:19:16 I really believe that it's our responsibility and we don't have to go into it
00:19:16 --> 00:19:23 assuming that we have all the answers or being afraid to if we don't we just.
00:19:24 --> 00:19:27 You can honestly say I don't know how to fix what's going on with you right
00:19:27 --> 00:19:30 now but I know that it's obvious that you're not okay,
00:19:31 --> 00:19:35 I actually had a co-worker it was probably about two weeks ago two or three
00:19:35 --> 00:19:42 weeks ago I was just having a rough day and she kept asking me through the day are you okay?
00:19:42 --> 00:19:45 Okay. And I, yeah, I'm good. I'm just tired.
00:19:45 --> 00:19:49 I'm just tired. And then I think it was long about like one o'clock in the afternoon.
00:19:49 --> 00:19:52 She was like, come on, we're going for a walk.
00:19:53 --> 00:19:59 She wouldn't take no for an answer. And she's like, what is going on?
00:19:59 --> 00:20:04 And I, as much as I didn't want to tell her, you know, I told her it felt so
00:20:04 --> 00:20:06 good to get it off of my chest.
00:20:06 --> 00:20:11 I felt better but it's seeing that,
00:20:12 --> 00:20:16 pain in somebody and recognizing it if your gut is telling you that somebody
00:20:16 --> 00:20:21 is not okay they're probably not i can't tell you how important it is to listen
00:20:21 --> 00:20:25 to your gut when or your intuition or whatever it is that you call it,
00:20:26 --> 00:20:27 even if you don't know that person very well.
00:20:29 --> 00:20:32 There's just, again, go to the help hub. There's just so many resources and
00:20:32 --> 00:20:36 things that you could say to just let people know that they're not alone.
00:20:36 --> 00:20:38 That, I think, is the most important
00:20:38 --> 00:20:41 thing is to let people know that they're not alone. And I see you.
00:20:42 --> 00:20:51 Like, just being seen in a small way just has a tremendous impact that I can't even begin to explain.
00:20:51 --> 00:20:55 So the fact that she saw me that day, no matter how many times I told her I
00:20:55 --> 00:20:57 was fine, she still saw through it.
00:20:58 --> 00:21:03 You got to love those tenacious friends you got to love the ones who.
00:21:04 --> 00:21:09 Won't let you lie to yourself or to them who are just going to cut right through
00:21:09 --> 00:21:13 the bullshit and say come on like i can see it it's right it's dripping all
00:21:13 --> 00:21:17 off you or it's it's you know it's on your face or whatever it is like you got to love those people,
00:21:18 --> 00:21:23 so all right i want to kind of shift the conversation a little bit to something else,
00:21:24 --> 00:21:29 since you used that as an example of someone kind of calling you out and really
00:21:29 --> 00:21:33 encouraging you to share what was on your mind and creating a safe space where
00:21:33 --> 00:21:37 it was just the two of you and you went out for a walk and she kind of made
00:21:37 --> 00:21:38 that environment happen for you.
00:21:39 --> 00:21:43 If something else that happens after these conversations, you know,
00:21:43 --> 00:21:48 we check on someone, they open up and, you know, maybe they get help,
00:21:48 --> 00:21:52 maybe things settle down for them, And then everybody kind of goes back to business
00:21:52 --> 00:21:54 as usual and life as usual.
00:21:55 --> 00:21:57 What happens three days later or two days later?
00:21:58 --> 00:22:00 Right. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
00:22:01 --> 00:22:04 That's where people may get it wrong is the follow up.
00:22:05 --> 00:22:11 Right. After that initial difficult conversation and following up every few
00:22:11 --> 00:22:15 days or every day if necessary, even if it's just with a text message.
00:22:16 --> 00:22:20 Yeah. Like, hey, I've been thinking about you since we talked or since we walked
00:22:20 --> 00:22:21 or since we ate together.
00:22:21 --> 00:22:24 How are you doing? What are you doing? Where's your headspace at?
00:22:25 --> 00:22:29 And I know, and this is an important statistic, I think, that's totally relevant to this conversation.
00:22:30 --> 00:22:38 The highest risk of someone trying to harm themselves or take their life is
00:22:38 --> 00:22:45 immediately after they are released from, for instance, an inpatient program.
00:22:45 --> 00:22:53 Someone who has been put on a 72-hour hold or they're in an inpatient facility
00:22:53 --> 00:22:57 and they get released after, let's say, they're having ideation or they've made an attempt.
00:22:58 --> 00:23:02 It's what happens immediately after when they get home and they don't have that
00:23:02 --> 00:23:07 support network and framework in place that they are at the highest risk so
00:23:07 --> 00:23:12 the the follow-up once you identify like okay something's up and maybe that person's gotten help,
00:23:13 --> 00:23:17 you gotta keep it going you have to keep that momentum going and it doesn't
00:23:17 --> 00:23:20 have to be a big dramatic thing it's exactly what you're saying it's a phone
00:23:20 --> 00:23:24 call it's a text it's you know showing up with a couple of coffees in your hand.
00:23:25 --> 00:23:30 It really truly is the little things that matter the most. Yeah.
00:23:31 --> 00:23:33 Do you think, and I'm just curious because you've been on both sides,
00:23:33 --> 00:23:36 you know, you've been on this side before.
00:23:36 --> 00:23:42 Do you think that there is a tendency for people to disappear once like an immediate
00:23:42 --> 00:23:47 crisis seems to be over and things are kind of stable?
00:23:48 --> 00:23:54 Do you, I mean, do you think that's because... Is the person supporting or the person that's hurting?
00:23:54 --> 00:24:00 Yeah. Like once you have supported someone, I'm talking about the person who's trying to help.
00:24:01 --> 00:24:03 Okay. Trying to be the support system.
00:24:04 --> 00:24:10 Do you think that it disappears, that that support kind of disappears because
00:24:10 --> 00:24:14 they don't know whether or not they should bring it up again?
00:24:15 --> 00:24:21 Like do you think people are afraid to keep at it with someone to keep I don't
00:24:21 --> 00:24:24 want to say harping I don't want to say hounding but like even the checking in,
00:24:25 --> 00:24:29 Did that, like, maybe I guess this is a different question. With you,
00:24:29 --> 00:24:34 after you had had your attempts, pick whichever one you can think of,
00:24:35 --> 00:24:38 you had an attempt, things kind of stabilized, and people, I'm sure,
00:24:38 --> 00:24:40 for a period of time checked in on you.
00:24:41 --> 00:24:44 Was there ever a point in time where that became annoying to you?
00:24:44 --> 00:24:46 Or you were like, I don't want you to always think of me this way?
00:24:47 --> 00:24:51 Or were you just like, oh, this is exactly what I need? What was that like? Yeah.
00:24:52 --> 00:24:57 Is a better question, I guess. Well, the problem is, is that I didn't get that support.
00:24:58 --> 00:25:05 Okay. The first three times people checked in maybe for a week and then it was
00:25:05 --> 00:25:07 just back to business as usual.
00:25:08 --> 00:25:12 Okay. And I've mentioned this many times before my, my auntie Jill,
00:25:12 --> 00:25:16 the most recent attempt I had, the closest that I got was in,
00:25:17 --> 00:25:20 I believe it was April, 2024.
00:25:20 --> 00:25:23 Four and she called me every day,
00:25:24 --> 00:25:28 every day at noon she worked she called me every single day at noon for like
00:25:28 --> 00:25:34 three or four months straight whether i answered the phone or not and i to this
00:25:34 --> 00:25:36 day say that that probably saved my life.
00:25:37 --> 00:25:42 And it never felt like even if i didn't feel like and she told me that she's
00:25:42 --> 00:25:45 like even if you don't feel like answering i will still call you every day and
00:25:45 --> 00:25:49 she'd leave me a funny voicemail every time that I didn't answer.
00:25:49 --> 00:25:54 But no, there is never a too much checking in for that person.
00:25:54 --> 00:25:59 There's, I don't think ever, as someone who has dealt with a serious lack of
00:25:59 --> 00:26:04 support through those difficult times, it was never too much.
00:26:05 --> 00:26:11 And I would say sometimes I would, I don't remember how frequent I would answer the phone,
00:26:11 --> 00:26:15 but it was usually every couple of days and and we would talk sometimes just
00:26:15 --> 00:26:19 for a couple of minutes other times it was her entire lunch break but it it
00:26:20 --> 00:26:25 helped me in so many ways so there is never enough of support or,
00:26:25 --> 00:26:28 too much or feeling like a nag or anything like that
00:26:29 --> 00:26:34 and somebody because they feel so alone I felt so alone I felt like nothing
00:26:34 --> 00:26:37 could get better and I didn't know
00:26:37 --> 00:26:41 what to do so yeah I would I would say definitely not too much support.
00:26:41 --> 00:26:42 Okay, that's good to know because
00:26:42 --> 00:26:49 I think that a lot of people worry about overstepping and worry about...
00:26:50 --> 00:26:55 Being a nuisance after a while to that person that they're trying to help,
00:26:55 --> 00:26:57 even though they're trying to help.
00:26:57 --> 00:27:01 And I think there's another piece of this too, that, you know,
00:27:01 --> 00:27:06 we want to touch on is that, and I know I've been caught in this mindset before,
00:27:06 --> 00:27:10 like you see someone, maybe they've lost a family member, or maybe they're going
00:27:10 --> 00:27:11 through a crisis or whatever it is.
00:27:11 --> 00:27:17 I think there's this mentality that if you're not like in the immediate crew,
00:27:17 --> 00:27:19 if you're not like in the immediate family.
00:27:19 --> 00:27:22 They're like, oh, everybody else has got it. They've got it. They've got it.
00:27:23 --> 00:27:27 And that isn't always the case. You and I have talked a lot about the fact that.
00:27:29 --> 00:27:34 When someone is in crisis or when there is a crisis, it is an interesting phenomenon,
00:27:34 --> 00:27:41 that the people who you automatically assume and expect will show up don't.
00:27:41 --> 00:27:47 And the people you never, ever thought would think twice are first on the scene,
00:27:47 --> 00:27:50 are there, are helpful, are engaged.
00:27:51 --> 00:27:56 And so don't, I guess this is a message like for me, I've been caught in this
00:27:56 --> 00:28:03 position before thinking that, oh, they've already got like a really tight, supportive network.
00:28:04 --> 00:28:07 It'll just be overkill. Don't think like that.
00:28:08 --> 00:28:11 Don't think like that. I have to consciously remind myself like,
00:28:11 --> 00:28:15 nope, do the thing that you know you want to do. Show up in the way that you
00:28:15 --> 00:28:18 believe you should show up or that you would want someone to show up for you.
00:28:19 --> 00:28:24 Don't make the assumption that they're a team using air quotes again that they're
00:28:24 --> 00:28:28 a team is going to show up because more than likely,
00:28:29 --> 00:28:37 not everybody who should will so just make sure to operate from a place of you're
00:28:37 --> 00:28:41 going to do your thing no matter how much support you believe somebody has because,
00:28:42 --> 00:28:45 like natasha just said it you can never ever have enough support,
00:28:46 --> 00:28:48 i look at it like in your building a house.
00:28:50 --> 00:28:55 A roof a house whatever you can never have too much support oh look at you all,
00:28:55 --> 00:29:02 construction focused so i mean it too i watched as people who.
00:29:03 --> 00:29:06 Were good friends of the family and they would offer a tremendous amount of
00:29:06 --> 00:29:10 support to my siblings or my mom mom's,
00:29:12 --> 00:29:15 And I was just left in the wings. Yeah.
00:29:16 --> 00:29:22 Just in case anybody. It looks like we had a good support system, and we did.
00:29:23 --> 00:29:27 But as I've mentioned before, in my family, there was serious favoritism,
00:29:28 --> 00:29:32 golden children, yada, yada, yada. And so those were the ones that got the support.
00:29:32 --> 00:29:35 And there were those of us who were just left on the side.
00:29:35 --> 00:29:39 Yeah, I know. And I feel bad about that for your sake.
00:29:39 --> 00:29:43 And if someone's listening and they don't understand the context of what you
00:29:43 --> 00:29:49 just said, Natasha was born into the FLDS polygamy cult, had three moms,
00:29:49 --> 00:29:53 one dad, 19 siblings. She was one of 20 children.
00:29:53 --> 00:30:02 And so it was a very, very unique dynamic to grow up in. So that's where that comment comes from.
00:30:02 --> 00:30:07 So, okay, so as we're kind of, let's bring it right back around to where the
00:30:07 --> 00:30:11 season started and to where this episode started, which is, okay,
00:30:12 --> 00:30:17 you know, the whole, we've talked about at length what to do when someone says
00:30:17 --> 00:30:21 I'm fine, how to kind of flesh out the truth, after everything we've talked
00:30:21 --> 00:30:24 about in the last 30, exactly 30 minutes.
00:30:25 --> 00:30:28 I have one question that I think we should wrap with.
00:30:28 --> 00:30:33 If somebody listening to this right now is worried about somebody but keeps
00:30:33 --> 00:30:37 thinking, I don't want to overstep, I don't know what to say,
00:30:38 --> 00:30:42 maybe I should leave them alone, I've asked them if they're fine,
00:30:43 --> 00:30:47 they're kind of dancing around a true answer, but I know something more is going
00:30:47 --> 00:30:53 on, maybe I should leave them alone, what would that person want to hear?
00:30:53 --> 00:30:56 What do you think, as someone who has been in that situation,
00:30:56 --> 00:31:01 what do you think that person who's hurting would want from us?
00:31:02 --> 00:31:06 Well, I have, so I want to talk to the two different sides of this conversation.
00:31:06 --> 00:31:11 So the person that is offering the support, you don't have to have the perfect words.
00:31:11 --> 00:31:14 You don't need clinical training. You don't need to have all the answers.
00:31:17 --> 00:31:21 What saves lives isn't a perfect conversation. It's just having the conversation.
00:31:21 --> 00:31:26 Your willingness to show up and let that person know that they are not alone,
00:31:27 --> 00:31:32 Asking the questions listening without judgment and staying present with them
00:31:32 --> 00:31:34 in the moment Is what keeps them going,
00:31:35 --> 00:31:39 And that if you're the person that's on the other side of that conversation and you're struggling,
00:31:40 --> 00:31:47 Allow that support allow that love don't fight so hard To hide that you're not okay.
00:31:47 --> 00:31:52 It's it's okay to not be okay You don't have to be strong all the time and you're
00:31:52 --> 00:31:58 not weak And your willingness to open up and to be honest with that person that
00:31:58 --> 00:32:01 is reaching out to you because it takes courage on both sides,
00:32:02 --> 00:32:05 And just know that your story is not over and there are people that out there
00:32:05 --> 00:32:10 who want to help you They love you and they want you to get better in whatever
00:32:10 --> 00:32:13 way that that looks like for you Yeah, I love that.
00:32:13 --> 00:32:16 I love that couldn't have said it better You know, we're never really going
00:32:16 --> 00:32:22 to know how many conversations any of us have that change the course of somebody
00:32:22 --> 00:32:25 else's day or week or life.
00:32:26 --> 00:32:32 We're not going to know how many people have told us I'm fine and how many we're
00:32:32 --> 00:32:37 kind of hoping, how many of those people are hoping that we ask again or ask a different way,
00:32:37 --> 00:32:42 but we can maybe pay a little extra attention. We can notice a little better.
00:32:43 --> 00:32:49 We can ask and we can stick around long enough to listen and,
00:32:50 --> 00:32:53 and push the conversation a little bit farther.
00:32:53 --> 00:32:59 So I think, you know, at the end of the day, I would much rather somebody have
00:33:00 --> 00:33:04 a hard, heavy conversation and figure out the truth and get the help that they
00:33:04 --> 00:33:07 need than the alternative. So, right.
00:33:08 --> 00:33:12 I don't think the goal is to become someone's therapist. It's more or less to
00:33:12 --> 00:33:18 be like a bridge, caring conversation that opens the door for further conversation
00:33:19 --> 00:33:20 or even support for that person.
00:33:22 --> 00:33:28 Absolutely. Absolutely. Amen. So we're going to be back next week with our season
00:33:28 --> 00:33:36 five wrap up. We're going to be doing the spark notes of the entire season five of The Survivors.
00:33:37 --> 00:33:42 What, two minutes? Two minutes or less for each episode. So if you haven't heard, it's like speed dating.
00:33:42 --> 00:33:49 If you haven't heard the episodes yet, maybe take a listen to our episode next
00:33:49 --> 00:33:54 week that recaps everything. and then it'll make you want to dive into the episodes themselves.
00:33:54 --> 00:34:00 So between now and then, do the thing that we are all doing and keep surviving.
00:34:00 --> 00:34:04 We will, if you will, and we'll see you right back here next week. Take care.
00:34:05 --> 00:34:09 Thanks so much for listening and for being part of the Survivors community.
00:34:10 --> 00:34:13 No matter where you are in your story, you're not alone and you're definitely
00:34:13 --> 00:34:17 not broken. Healing takes time and it looks different for everyone.
00:34:18 --> 00:34:22 The fact that you're still here and still trying means you're already doing the hard work.
00:34:23 --> 00:34:27 If something in today's conversation resonated with you, please share it with
00:34:27 --> 00:34:28 someone who might need to hear it too.
00:34:29 --> 00:34:33 That's how we keep these conversations going and remind each other that there's always hope.
00:34:34 --> 00:34:37 And if you or someone you know is struggling, please remember,
00:34:37 --> 00:34:38 help is always out there.
00:34:38 --> 00:34:43 You can call or text 988 anytime to reach a trained crisis counselor like me.
00:34:43 --> 00:34:47 And for more mental health resources, tools, treatment options,
00:34:47 --> 00:34:50 and content to support your mental health, visit thehelphub.co.
00:34:51 --> 00:34:54 We're so grateful you're part of the Survivors family, and we'll be back next
00:34:54 --> 00:34:58 week with another honest conversation about life after the hardest things.
00:34:59 --> 00:35:03 Until then, take care of yourself and your people, and keep surviving.