*WARNING: This podcast mentions suicide, sexual abuse & trauma and may be triggering.
Episode Summary
In this episode of The Survivors, Lisa Sugarman introduces her new co-host Natasha J. Layton, who shares her harrowing story of sexual abuse, religious trauma, domestic abuse, and survival after growing up in the FLDS cult as the niece of Warren Jeffs. Natasha recounts her experiences of childhood trauma and the complexities of life within a polygamous community. The conversation dives into the impact of her past on her mental health and the journey towards reclaiming her narrative and healing.
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Struggling with your mental health? Feeling lost, overwhelmed, or just alone? Well, you're not. Welcome to The HelpHUB™—your online destination for mental health resources, treatment options, content, and tools to help meet you exactly where you are in the moment. Visit TheHelpHUB.co to get started.
Takeaways
- Natasha's story is a powerful testament to survival.
- The FLDS cult's impact on individual lives is profound.
- Trauma can be a dirty family secret that is hard to confront.
- Survivors often grapple with guilt and self-blame.
- Naming one's story is a crucial step in healing.
- The importance of pacing in sharing traumatic experiences.
- Community ties can be severed in the name of faith.
- Understanding the dynamics of polygamy is essential.
- Healing is a layered process that takes time.
- Survival often begins long before it is recognized.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to The Survivors Podcast
01:39 Natasha's Journey Begins
03:02 Life Inside the FLDS Cult
13:34 Understanding the FLDS and Warren Jeffs
24:18 The Impact of Trauma and Abuse
34:01 Reflections on Survival and Healing
Mental Health Resources
- If you or someone you know is struggling, please call 988 for help.
- National Sexual Abuse Hotline 800-656-4673
- The Survivors Podcast Website – https://thesurvivors.net/
- The HelpHUB™ – Mental health resources, tools, and support networks – https://www.thehelphub.co/
Follow & Connect With Us
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See you next week! In the meantime, keep surviving.
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00:00:00 --> 00:00:04 Hey friends, before we dive into this week's episode, just a heads up.
00:00:04 --> 00:00:08 Our podcast talks about suicide, sexual abuse, and other trauma,
00:00:08 --> 00:00:12 and some of what you hear may be triggering. So please listen with care.
00:00:13 --> 00:00:18 This is The Survivors, real stories, raw conversations, and the truth about
00:00:18 --> 00:00:21 what it means to keep going after the hardest things.
00:00:21 --> 00:00:24 We're so glad you're here. Let's keep surviving together.
00:00:26 --> 00:00:31 Welcome back to The Survivors. If you're joining us for the very first time,
00:00:31 --> 00:00:32 I'm Lisa. Nice to meet you.
00:00:33 --> 00:00:38 And if you've already been with us since episode one way, way back earlier this
00:00:38 --> 00:00:43 year, then you know already if you're watching this episode that things look a little bit different.
00:00:43 --> 00:00:49 The Survivors is raw, it's real, and we're not holding back the season.
00:00:49 --> 00:00:53 And last week, I got to introduce you to someone really special.
00:00:53 --> 00:00:58 We're starting off a whole new era of the show, and I'm going to introduce her
00:00:58 --> 00:01:02 all over again because I'm so, so grateful to be sharing the mic and the screen
00:01:02 --> 00:01:05 with my new co-host, Natasha J.
00:01:05 --> 00:01:10 Layton. Hi. Hi. How are you? It's a pleasure to be here again. I know, right?
00:01:12 --> 00:01:18 So today is part one of your story. Yeah. And yeah, and what a story it is.
00:01:18 --> 00:01:20 And I want to say this up front.
00:01:20 --> 00:01:23 And you and I talked a lot about this offline, but I want to say it to everybody who's listening.
00:01:23 --> 00:01:27 This story is not trauma for shock.
00:01:27 --> 00:01:32 It's trauma told by Natasha, by the survivor, on her terms, in her voice,
00:01:33 --> 00:01:40 her way, because that is how she gets to reclaim her own power with so much
00:01:40 --> 00:01:41 that's been taken away from her.
00:01:41 --> 00:01:47 And she gets to take it back by sharing what she wants to share for whatever
00:01:47 --> 00:01:48 reason she chooses to share it.
00:01:49 --> 00:01:53 So Natasha, this is you. This is your story.
00:01:53 --> 00:01:56 Wherever you feel you want to start, I'll give you maybe just like a little
00:01:56 --> 00:02:03 jumping off point and I'll ask you a question. So if your life.
00:02:04 --> 00:02:06 I was trying to think of the right way to do this, and this is what popped into my mind.
00:02:07 --> 00:02:12 If your life had a headline that summed up the weight of everything that you've
00:02:12 --> 00:02:14 experienced, what would that headline be, do you think?
00:02:15 --> 00:02:20 Probably surviving the unimaginable, because I've heard that so many times in
00:02:20 --> 00:02:24 my life. I can't imagine surviving what you have survived.
00:02:24 --> 00:02:29 Yeah, it's true. I know that's exactly what I thought about you when I heard
00:02:29 --> 00:02:33 about you. And I had only even heard the tiniest little bit of your story,
00:02:33 --> 00:02:36 which I thought was unimaginable in and of itself.
00:02:36 --> 00:02:43 But, you know, I want people listening to notice how heavy that sounded when
00:02:43 --> 00:02:45 you said it, that the unimaginable.
00:02:46 --> 00:02:49 This is a lifetime of trauma that you're talking about that you're going to
00:02:49 --> 00:02:52 share with us It's it's one thing on top of another and another and another
00:02:52 --> 00:02:55 and the fact that you're even sitting here And that we're having this conversation.
00:02:56 --> 00:03:01 Matters so much more than I have the words to share so I don't,
00:03:02 --> 00:03:06 I don't want to waste any time. I want to just kind of jump right in.
00:03:06 --> 00:03:09 I just, I want to give kind of like the little, the little pretext and just
00:03:09 --> 00:03:13 say that before, before we start with your story, I'm just going to kind of
00:03:13 --> 00:03:16 paint the picture real quick and let you fill in all the blanks.
00:03:16 --> 00:03:21 So you were a member, your family was a member of the FLDS, which is the Fundamentalist
00:03:21 --> 00:03:23 Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
00:03:24 --> 00:03:29 And that is a polygamy cult. We're calling it a cult because that's what it is.
00:03:30 --> 00:03:34 Before the loss of your brothers, before your own suicide attempts,
00:03:34 --> 00:03:41 let's start maybe with what life looked like inside the FLDS when you were a
00:03:41 --> 00:03:47 little kid, when you were a teenager, keeping in mind that anybody who's listening to us knows,
00:03:47 --> 00:03:52 if you know anything about the FLDS, then you know the name Warren Jeffs.
00:03:52 --> 00:03:57 And I'm going to let Natasha explain what her connection is to Warren Jeffs.
00:03:57 --> 00:04:03 But suffice it to say that he was one of the FBI's most wanted criminals when
00:04:03 --> 00:04:05 he was the prophet of the FLDS.
00:04:05 --> 00:04:12 Can you take us to that time in your life, back when you were living within
00:04:12 --> 00:04:15 that cult? What did it look like? What did it feel like?
00:04:16 --> 00:04:22 And how did it shape who you are? Well, we grew up on a small compound at the
00:04:22 --> 00:04:24 mouth of Little Cottonwood Canyon in Sandy, Utah.
00:04:25 --> 00:04:31 And there was four houses that were ours and our uncle's.
00:04:31 --> 00:04:35 And then there was the big church slash schoolhouse.
00:04:35 --> 00:04:38 And then my grandfather's house next to us. So I think there was a total of
00:04:38 --> 00:04:45 like six houses on this compound. And we had this big concrete wall that spanned the length of,
00:04:46 --> 00:04:53 All these properties locking the main road that leads right up to a very popular ski resort.
00:04:54 --> 00:04:56 And I knew from a very young age that we were different.
00:04:57 --> 00:05:06 My mother cleaned houses for a living. Just regular people, Gentiles as we were told to call them.
00:05:06 --> 00:05:10 And so I knew we were different because I was exposed to the outside world.
00:05:11 --> 00:05:14 Obviously going to the grocery store and things like that. and I always saw
00:05:14 --> 00:05:17 the way that they dressed and it was so cool.
00:05:17 --> 00:05:23 And my mom actually made her first four children. She made all of our clothes when we were little.
00:05:24 --> 00:05:29 And we did, mine and my sister's dresses, they kind of looked like the little
00:05:29 --> 00:05:33 prairie dresses that you see on the TV and things like that.
00:05:33 --> 00:05:35 But they were cute and had lace and things like that.
00:05:35 --> 00:05:40 So my mom obviously took a lot of pride in making sure we look presentable and things like that.
00:05:40 --> 00:05:46 But that's also part of the cult is that outside appearances is very important.
00:05:46 --> 00:05:50 Like you never let on that anything awful is going on in your home.
00:05:50 --> 00:05:53 Like it's keeping up with the Joneses, all the things.
00:05:54 --> 00:05:58 And so I come from a home where there was three mothers.
00:05:59 --> 00:06:03 My dad, he was actually a Vietnam veteran. He was drafted into the military.
00:06:05 --> 00:06:09 And he actually fought over in Vietnam. And he came home on leave.
00:06:09 --> 00:06:14 And on his way home, he was told by, from the airport, he was told by his parents
00:06:14 --> 00:06:16 that he was getting married in three days.
00:06:17 --> 00:06:20 And he's like, okay, who am I marrying?
00:06:21 --> 00:06:25 And I think he had met her once or maybe even had only seen her in passing.
00:06:25 --> 00:06:28 They'd never actually even met or had a conversation.
00:06:28 --> 00:06:35 And so he was married three days later. and they moved to Colorado where he
00:06:35 --> 00:06:37 finished out his military contract.
00:06:37 --> 00:06:42 They immediately started having kids. She had five kids in six years.
00:06:42 --> 00:06:46 It was a lot. It's a lot of kids. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
00:06:46 --> 00:06:52 And then my mother, Sherry, is actually, so Susan and Sherry are full-blooded
00:06:52 --> 00:06:56 sisters, and it's very common in the polygamist community for sisters to end
00:06:56 --> 00:06:57 up marrying the same man.
00:06:57 --> 00:07:00 My mom fell in love with my dad.
00:07:01 --> 00:07:05 Susan and dad would come over every Sunday with the kids and things like that,
00:07:05 --> 00:07:09 and my mom fell in love with him, and she actually asked to be placed with him when she was 18.
00:07:10 --> 00:07:16 And my maternal grandfather did not believe in letting his daughters get married at a very young age.
00:07:16 --> 00:07:18 He said, put it out of your mind. You're not ready.
00:07:19 --> 00:07:22 He made her wait she was 21 and then
00:07:22 --> 00:07:25 she married my dad and right from
00:07:25 --> 00:07:28 the beginning there was tension in the household if that's
00:07:28 --> 00:07:33 one thing i could say that i i grew up in was like this underlying tension within
00:07:33 --> 00:07:38 our home it was palpable how what kind of things do you did you see i i know
00:07:38 --> 00:07:44 i don't remember witnessing this but so i'm of the 20 children i'm number 13
00:07:44 --> 00:07:46 okay smack dab smack dab in the middle.
00:07:46 --> 00:07:51 But apparently in the earlier years, the mothers used to, particularly mom and
00:07:51 --> 00:07:54 Susan, used to get in fist bites. Oh, okay.
00:07:55 --> 00:07:59 Usually it was because their kids were fighting, like, you know,
00:07:59 --> 00:08:02 Susan's kid hurt one of mom's kids, things like that.
00:08:02 --> 00:08:07 It was usually generally about the kids because each mother is very protective over their children.
00:08:08 --> 00:08:12 And so they used to get in fistfights and dad would get called to,
00:08:12 --> 00:08:13 hey, the moms are fighting.
00:08:13 --> 00:08:17 I know that when the third wife was brought in, she was 16.
00:08:18 --> 00:08:22 She was actually placed with my dad because she was a troublemaker.
00:08:22 --> 00:08:25 And the best way to solve that doesn't make any sense.
00:08:26 --> 00:08:31 Marry her off and throw her into the family. There was nine kids at that point, and...
00:08:32 --> 00:08:36 And she was dealing, we later found out years later, she was dealing with being
00:08:36 --> 00:08:38 sexually abused by her dad and brother.
00:08:38 --> 00:08:43 So she just brought a whole host. And so being thrown into taking care of these
00:08:43 --> 00:08:46 kids and all the mothers worked doing house cleaning and this, that, and the other.
00:08:47 --> 00:08:50 And then also took turns who was in charge of the kids that day.
00:08:51 --> 00:08:57 And she would beat the living shit out of all of us, particularly my oldest
00:08:57 --> 00:09:00 brother, Clayne. He was a very defiant child.
00:09:02 --> 00:09:05 We'll explain why later but he there was
00:09:05 --> 00:09:08 a story of susan or excuse me martha is
00:09:08 --> 00:09:12 the third wife so there's susan sherry and martha and i apologize that this
00:09:12 --> 00:09:16 is very confusing it's all very confusing to me sometimes because there's so
00:09:16 --> 00:09:23 much so martha was on kids one day and she was beating the shit out of one of
00:09:23 --> 00:09:26 the kids with lincoln logs i don't know if you remember those lincoln log i had a very,
00:09:27 --> 00:09:29 very big set of Lincoln Logs. I remember them well.
00:09:30 --> 00:09:33 Of course, now I'll never think of them the same way again, but I remember them well.
00:09:34 --> 00:09:38 Yeah. So she was beating the shit out of one of the kids, and Klain was standing
00:09:38 --> 00:09:42 at the top of the stairs and had the younger kids throwing,
00:09:43 --> 00:09:48 giving him spoons and utensils, and he was chucking at her at the bottom of
00:09:48 --> 00:09:50 the stairs, trying to save his younger sibling.
00:09:50 --> 00:09:55 And it also later came out that, I don't know if you've ever seen a big commercial grade metal spoon?
00:09:56 --> 00:09:59 Like they're like this long. Yeah, sure. She was beating us with that.
00:09:59 --> 00:10:03 When my dad found out about that, I'll never forget this.
00:10:03 --> 00:10:08 He gathered us all in the kitchen and he took that spoon and bent it over his
00:10:08 --> 00:10:13 knee and I think tied it in a knot and said, if I ever find out that any of
00:10:13 --> 00:10:18 my wives are beating my children with this, there's going to be to pay.
00:10:18 --> 00:10:25 There was a tremendous amount of abuse that occurred, physical abuse, sexual abuse that
00:10:25 --> 00:10:31 I endured at the hands of my older brother, Marcus. I was between the ages of three and four.
00:10:32 --> 00:10:39 And I actually did not remember that abuse until I was about 14 and I started having flashbacks.
00:10:40 --> 00:10:46 There had been other reports of some inappropriate things happening with other siblings.
00:10:46 --> 00:10:50 Although the way I was explained, it was very minor.
00:10:51 --> 00:10:56 Amongst the sibling, mine was the worst. I know that some of my other siblings
00:10:56 --> 00:11:01 were sexually abused by my uncles, including Warren Jeffs, at the schoolhouse,
00:11:01 --> 00:11:03 which was two houses down.
00:11:03 --> 00:11:06 That's where we all went to school at Alta Academy.
00:11:07 --> 00:11:11 And we listened to him every morning. That was, we started in first grade.
00:11:12 --> 00:11:17 And we all had to sit there in the big meeting room with this god-awful green
00:11:17 --> 00:11:19 carpet, puke green carpet.
00:11:20 --> 00:11:24 And we had to listen to him preach and
00:11:24 --> 00:11:29 as time went on he stopped preaching from the book of mormon which is the primary
00:11:29 --> 00:11:36 book that mormons read from and started preaching from his own teachings and
00:11:36 --> 00:11:42 it was brainwashing to the fullest i mean absolute utter brainwashings and when
00:11:42 --> 00:11:43 i hear the recordings of him,
00:11:44 --> 00:11:49 Because he had it recorded, all of his talks, for years and years and years, an hour every morning.
00:11:49 --> 00:11:54 And when I hear those recordings, it is like a visceral reaction. I can't imagine.
00:11:55 --> 00:11:59 Not actively vomit, because it is so just, ugh.
00:12:00 --> 00:12:07 I think for context, for people who don't know about the FLDS and about your
00:12:07 --> 00:12:10 uncle, Warren Jeffs, talk for a second.
00:12:10 --> 00:12:13 And I know you mentioned it briefly in episode one, but if anyone hasn't listened
00:12:13 --> 00:12:20 to episode one, just give people a quick refresher on what the FLDS is in terms
00:12:20 --> 00:12:21 of it being a polygamy cult.
00:12:22 --> 00:12:27 Like explain that part of it and that there is a prophet and that Warren Jeffs
00:12:27 --> 00:12:30 was the prophet and, you know, and that there is all of this,
00:12:30 --> 00:12:36 you know, multiple, multiple wives, multiple homes, multiple households and children.
00:12:37 --> 00:12:42 Okay. So, Mormonism started in the mid-1800s by a man named Joseph Smith.
00:12:43 --> 00:12:47 He was—and I'm way off on my history because I've blocked it out.
00:12:47 --> 00:12:51 You know, I was—this was all just crammed into my brain as a kid, but he—,
00:12:51 --> 00:12:55 founded his own church. He believed that in order to get to,
00:12:55 --> 00:12:57 there's three levels of heaven.
00:12:57 --> 00:13:01 In order to get to the highest level of heaven, you have to live polygamy and
00:13:01 --> 00:13:03 have multiple wives here on planet Earth.
00:13:03 --> 00:13:07 So he took his following and they, you know, moved across the country.
00:13:07 --> 00:13:11 And with the second prophet, Brigham Young, they moved to Utah.
00:13:11 --> 00:13:16 Well, in the late 1800s, in order for Utah to gain statehood,
00:13:16 --> 00:13:18 the federal government said, well, you can't have polygamy.
00:13:19 --> 00:13:24 And so they, The people that believed that in order to get to that highest level
00:13:24 --> 00:13:27 of heaven, you had to maintain your, you know, have polygamous wives,
00:13:27 --> 00:13:29 they broke off and started their own church.
00:13:29 --> 00:13:33 And then that, you know, the mainstream Mormon church that has millions of followers,
00:13:33 --> 00:13:35 they continued on, got their statehood.
00:13:35 --> 00:13:40 So that's where the original break happened. And the men continued on,
00:13:40 --> 00:13:43 and there was always a prophet, one man that was in charge.
00:13:44 --> 00:13:46 And then there was usually like, very similar to the Mormons,
00:13:47 --> 00:13:50 mainstream Mormon church now, there's a quorum of 12, so his advisors.
00:13:50 --> 00:13:56 And your grandfather, Rulon Jeffs, was the prophet for a long, long time, right?
00:13:56 --> 00:13:59 Yes, he was the self-proclaimed prophet, yes.
00:13:59 --> 00:14:06 And in the 1950s is when, actually, there's been documentaries on this and things,
00:14:06 --> 00:14:10 you can find them, where the state actually came in and arrested many of these
00:14:10 --> 00:14:13 men for having multiple wives and took their children from them,
00:14:13 --> 00:14:14 and it was all very traumatic.
00:14:14 --> 00:14:17 And so because of that, polygamy became very secretive.
00:14:18 --> 00:14:22 The men couldn't talk about having multiple wives. The wives were put into separate homes oftentimes.
00:14:23 --> 00:14:26 It was very different. And then as the years went on, my grandfather,
00:14:27 --> 00:14:29 Jeff, was put in prison. I can't remember exactly.
00:14:30 --> 00:14:33 But he did split up his wives and put them in separate houses.
00:14:33 --> 00:14:37 And actually, my grandfather, Rulon, he served a mission in England.
00:14:37 --> 00:14:42 Like, he actually left polygamy and joined the mainstream Mormon church.
00:14:42 --> 00:14:47 But then, I don't know what happened exactly, he decided to go back to it.
00:14:47 --> 00:14:50 So, in the 70s, there was,
00:14:50 --> 00:14:54 we call them Uncle Leroy as a term endearment. You called the prophet Uncle
00:14:54 --> 00:14:59 so-and-so as a term of endearment and respect. And so his name was Leroy Johnson.
00:14:59 --> 00:15:03 And according to my mom, he was a good man and kind and things like that and wasn't power hungry.
00:15:03 --> 00:15:06 Well, he was getting to the end of his age. And my grandfather,
00:15:07 --> 00:15:09 Rulon, was on the council.
00:15:09 --> 00:15:13 And he believed, due to his seniority and things like that, that he should be the next prophet.
00:15:14 --> 00:15:18 And other members of the were like, no, we get to vote on this.
00:15:18 --> 00:15:23 And well, those that believe grandfather was the true prophet,
00:15:24 --> 00:15:26 they left and followed him. So then there was another split.
00:15:27 --> 00:15:31 And certain members followed this group over here that didn't believe that there
00:15:31 --> 00:15:35 should be an actual prophet-prophet, but like a quorum of the twelve.
00:15:35 --> 00:15:39 There wasn't going to be just one man in charge. It was going to be like a council.
00:15:40 --> 00:15:43 My grandfather's followers, and he became the self-proclaimed prophet,
00:15:44 --> 00:15:46 of the majority were his children.
00:15:46 --> 00:15:51 He fathered 65 children. Yeah, with I think like 13 wives. My maternal grandfather
00:15:51 --> 00:15:54 has even more children than that.
00:15:54 --> 00:15:59 He was having children into his 80s. I have some thoughts, but I'll share them with you offline.
00:15:59 --> 00:16:04 Hello, my friend. My name is Aaron Mashpitz, and I'm the founder and owner of
00:16:04 --> 00:16:08 You Are Loved, which is a nonprofit mental health organization dedicated to
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00:16:13 --> 00:16:17 We exist to offer a beacon of love to all people living with mental health conditions.
00:16:18 --> 00:16:22 The inspiration and reason behind You Are Loved is my big sister,
00:16:22 --> 00:16:25 Rachel, who died by suicide in 2018.
00:16:26 --> 00:16:31 The mission of You Are Loved is to remind us all that even in our darkest moment,
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00:16:42 --> 00:16:48 SURVIVOR10 for 10% off all You Are Loved merchandise. Thank you.
00:16:48 --> 00:16:53 I am very conflicted about that as these old men are marrying children,
00:16:53 --> 00:16:59 marrying women that are young enough to be their granddaughters and their great-granddaughters.
00:16:59 --> 00:17:03 It's gross. It's 100% gross. It should not be happening.
00:17:04 --> 00:17:10 And so as grandfather came into power and started his own thing,
00:17:10 --> 00:17:18 then Warren, through his mother, became kind of like grandfather's go-to son.
00:17:18 --> 00:17:22 Obviously he had a number to choose from and warren
00:17:22 --> 00:17:29 was put in charge of a new school that grandfather built and that was two houses
00:17:29 --> 00:17:33 down from where i grew up on the compound and i believe warren was like 17 years
00:17:33 --> 00:17:37 old when he was made principal of this school which is nuts and that's how he
00:17:37 --> 00:17:41 gained access to all these children that he was not only abusing his own children but,
00:17:42 --> 00:17:48 God knows how many children. So as grandfather was getting older in age and
00:17:48 --> 00:17:52 Warren was inserting himself more and more into church matters and things like
00:17:52 --> 00:17:56 that, and basically the last 10 years that grandfather was alive,
00:17:57 --> 00:17:59 Warren was actually running the show behind the scenes.
00:18:00 --> 00:18:09 And my father was actually the first of many men that were excommunicated from
00:18:09 --> 00:18:11 the church because they posed a threat to Warren.
00:18:12 --> 00:18:17 And we were excommunicated at a time, this was my first experience with death.
00:18:18 --> 00:18:22 My oldest brother, Clayne, and several of my older siblings actually left the
00:18:22 --> 00:18:28 church and became apostates, but we still communicated with them and they still came over every Sunday.
00:18:28 --> 00:18:33 And Clayne had a baby, two babies with a young girl.
00:18:33 --> 00:18:37 They met at 18. She was outside of the church. And his second child,
00:18:37 --> 00:18:40 her name was Cheyenne, and she died of SIDS at six months old.
00:18:40 --> 00:18:44 That was 1997. That was my first experience with death.
00:18:44 --> 00:18:48 And to see this tiny little baby, it just was horrific.
00:18:49 --> 00:18:54 That was ultimately when my family was excommunicated because we were still,
00:18:55 --> 00:19:00 maintaining contact with our siblings that were left the church.
00:19:01 --> 00:19:07 And my father was called to his monthly meeting with my grandfather for tithing.
00:19:07 --> 00:19:11 And grandfather says, I understand you've been harboring apostates in your home.
00:19:11 --> 00:19:15 And my dad said, well, if you mean my children, then yeah.
00:19:15 --> 00:19:19 He said, you know, you're not supposed to do that. And you need to make a choice,
00:19:19 --> 00:19:23 your church or your children. And my dad said, my children, of course.
00:19:23 --> 00:19:29 And so then my grandfather said, well, in my opinion, you no longer hold the
00:19:29 --> 00:19:32 priesthood and you're no longer a member of our church.
00:19:33 --> 00:19:37 And you were how old? 12. Yeah, 12.
00:19:37 --> 00:19:45 And so we stayed on the compound in our home, but we lost all of our relationships
00:19:45 --> 00:19:47 because it was very family-oriented.
00:19:48 --> 00:19:52 Our uncles lived next door. Our best friends were our cousins that lived right
00:19:52 --> 00:19:58 next door, and we had cut off all access. We lived every day with our cousins
00:19:58 --> 00:20:00 and all of a sudden just, bam, gone.
00:20:01 --> 00:20:04 And it was really hard for us to lose all sense of community.
00:20:04 --> 00:20:08 It was really hard. So I apologize. I have a tendency to do this because as
00:20:08 --> 00:20:13 I'm telling one version, one part of the story, then I end up in a certain area.
00:20:13 --> 00:20:15 And then I have to kind of retract.
00:20:15 --> 00:20:21 But that's okay. I mean, you've got a very, very complicated history.
00:20:21 --> 00:20:28 There are so many different things that make up your individual brand of trauma.
00:20:29 --> 00:20:32 And I mean, there's sexual abuse. You've already alluded to that.
00:20:33 --> 00:20:39 There's living within a polygamy cult for most of your early childhood.
00:20:39 --> 00:20:45 We haven't even talked about the attempts you've made on your own life and the
00:20:45 --> 00:20:47 suicides of your brothers.
00:20:47 --> 00:20:51 And I mean, maybe that's a place to slide into at this point.
00:20:51 --> 00:20:58 So the biggest impact on my life was the sexual abuse that I endured from my older brother, Marcus.
00:20:59 --> 00:21:05 And that occurred between the ages of three and four, but I did not have recollection
00:21:05 --> 00:21:09 of that until I was 14 when I started having flashbacks about it.
00:21:09 --> 00:21:14 And when I had the first flashbacks, I was actually on the phone having a conversation
00:21:14 --> 00:21:18 with this boy that I had liked, and by this time, we had obviously left the church.
00:21:18 --> 00:21:22 I was 14, and I was in public school,
00:21:22 --> 00:21:27 things like that, and I started having these flashbacks, and it was the weirdest
00:21:27 --> 00:21:29 sensation because it was like having an out-of-body experience,
00:21:29 --> 00:21:34 but it was real, and it was me, and I was looking at myself from above.
00:21:34 --> 00:21:36 It was absolutely nuts.
00:21:36 --> 00:21:42 And then I started replaying it all, and I was like, oh my god,
00:21:42 --> 00:21:50 he actually lured me up into his room to sexually abuse me, and was touching me inappropriately.
00:21:51 --> 00:21:57 And I remember laying there on his bed with him, and his hands just over me
00:21:57 --> 00:22:01 down here and just back and forth and back and forth.
00:22:02 --> 00:22:06 And the reason that I grappled with it with guilt for a lot of times,
00:22:07 --> 00:22:11 and I think this is very common with survivors, this is the sickest part.
00:22:11 --> 00:22:14 How could a three and four year old have asked for that?
00:22:14 --> 00:22:19 You didn't. And this is where, this is the hardest part because sexual pleasure
00:22:19 --> 00:22:23 feels good, even at three and four years old. You were a toddler, Natasha.
00:22:23 --> 00:22:27 I was a toddler. And so when I was having these flashbacks at 14,
00:22:27 --> 00:22:32 15 years old, and I was like, well, maybe I asked for it. Maybe I liked it.
00:22:32 --> 00:22:40 And I didn't. It took me years, years to realize that that was not my fault. I did not ask for that.
00:22:40 --> 00:22:45 It happened multiple times. And then I was like, well, maybe it wasn't that
00:22:45 --> 00:22:48 bad because he didn't put his penis inside me. It was just his fingers.
00:22:50 --> 00:22:55 I realized later as I was in therapy and I was doing all these inappropriate
00:22:55 --> 00:22:58 things, I don't know if anybody's ever heard of play therapy,
00:22:58 --> 00:23:02 that kids that have experienced sexual trauma where they have them play with dolls or Barbies.
00:23:02 --> 00:23:07 That's what I was doing unbeknownst to myself. I was therapizing myself.
00:23:07 --> 00:23:13 I was in therapy as a child. I was doing inappropriate things with my Barbies
00:23:13 --> 00:23:15 that I had no idea what they were doing.
00:23:15 --> 00:23:19 I didn't know what sex was, but they were doing things. I think it's really,
00:23:19 --> 00:23:25 really important right now for anybody who's listening to clarify that not only
00:23:25 --> 00:23:28 did you bring this up to your parents, but that your brother was confronted.
00:23:28 --> 00:23:32 And I want you to be the one to tell people what happened when he was confronted.
00:23:33 --> 00:23:38 My first attempt was I was 15 and I was in my room.
00:23:39 --> 00:23:44 I didn't want to be here anymore. I had a knife. I was running it over my wrists.
00:23:44 --> 00:23:46 I just I didn't want to be here anymore.
00:23:46 --> 00:23:49 I couldn't deal with it anymore. So when you say attempt, you mean attempt on
00:23:49 --> 00:23:51 your own life. Yes. Yeah. I do.
00:23:52 --> 00:23:57 And in desperation, I called my older sister, Jenny, and...
00:23:58 --> 00:24:01 I believe Jerusha, she lived, they shared a house together.
00:24:01 --> 00:24:05 They had recently gotten a house together and they both picked up the phone.
00:24:05 --> 00:24:06 This was back in the days when there was a house phone.
00:24:07 --> 00:24:13 And I just in tears telling them what I had experienced and what all these flashbacks
00:24:13 --> 00:24:16 and they were just in complete shock. They had no idea.
00:24:17 --> 00:24:19 And they wanted me to tell mom and dad wanted me
00:24:19 --> 00:24:22 to tell mom dad and I said no I don't because Marcus
00:24:22 --> 00:24:25 was like the the perfect son he was just
00:24:25 --> 00:24:28 never done anything wrong he was the
00:24:28 --> 00:24:31 golden boy and I didn't think that they would believe
00:24:31 --> 00:24:34 me and six months went
00:24:34 --> 00:24:37 by before I finally got so bad that Jenny's
00:24:37 --> 00:24:40 like you've got to tell mom dad she's like I'll come over tomorrow after work
00:24:40 --> 00:24:45 you're gonna sit down you're gonna tell mom and dad and I
00:24:45 --> 00:24:48 did and I they sat there kind
00:24:48 --> 00:24:50 of looking at me weird well what were
00:24:50 --> 00:24:53 you thinking they asked me all these weird questions how were you feeling were
00:24:53 --> 00:24:59 you scared were you know and they just sat there and I'm literally sobbing shaking
00:24:59 --> 00:25:07 sobbing as I'm telling them these stories and my dad said to mom Sherry go comfort
00:25:07 --> 00:25:11 your daughter and so she He came and sat by me and hugged me and.
00:25:12 --> 00:25:18 That was that. My dad called Marcus the next day and asked him if it was true.
00:25:18 --> 00:25:19 And he said, yes, it was true.
00:25:19 --> 00:25:24 And so dad made Marcus write me and my mom a letter. Why he needed to write
00:25:24 --> 00:25:26 my mom a letter, I have no idea.
00:25:27 --> 00:25:32 And a few weeks go by and I get home from school and mom says,
00:25:32 --> 00:25:34 your letter is there for Marcus.
00:25:34 --> 00:25:38 Okay. She got hers. I never read hers. I sat down and I read it.
00:25:39 --> 00:25:44 And he, you But the one thing that stood out to me the most,
00:25:44 --> 00:25:53 and I will absolutely never forget, is he said, we both know there was no real damage done.
00:25:54 --> 00:25:58 In his mind, he did not fully traumatize me because he didn't rape me.
00:25:59 --> 00:26:02 And then that was that. That's an understatement. Wow.
00:26:03 --> 00:26:08 I want to pause for a second. As much for you as for me as for people who are
00:26:08 --> 00:26:11 listening, because that's a lot.
00:26:11 --> 00:26:18 And what I want people to understand is that what you just heard Natasha share
00:26:18 --> 00:26:22 and explain, that is such a small part of your story.
00:26:22 --> 00:26:27 And the way that you shared it, just unapologetically, just letting people know
00:26:27 --> 00:26:31 exactly what it is that happened, that is the truth of this podcast.
00:26:31 --> 00:26:35 That is what we're talking about. And in your case in particular,
00:26:35 --> 00:26:41 where your story is concerned, your survival doesn't start at the end of what
00:26:41 --> 00:26:45 you just shared. But that was the beginning for you.
00:26:45 --> 00:26:52 Aside from life as a member of the FLDS, I mean, that is where so much of your
00:26:52 --> 00:26:56 trauma, I mean, am I right to assume that, that that's where so much of it started?
00:26:58 --> 00:27:04 It means I was left to deal with that trauma on my own. Right. And it was buried.
00:27:05 --> 00:27:09 It was a dirty family secret. Don't ever talk about it again.
00:27:09 --> 00:27:11 Yeah. And you didn't, not for a long time.
00:27:12 --> 00:27:14 And I think maybe this is the part,
00:27:15 --> 00:27:23 this episode where we stop where we are, because I know there is so much more to come.
00:27:23 --> 00:27:30 We have not even touched on other suicide attempts, the other suicides in your
00:27:30 --> 00:27:36 family, more about your uncle and what has happened to him in recent years.
00:27:36 --> 00:27:39 And there's so much more. There's so many more layers.
00:27:39 --> 00:27:44 So, do you feel comfortable if we pause here and we regroup next week?
00:27:44 --> 00:27:46 Because that's a lot for people to swallow.
00:27:46 --> 00:27:51 It is a lot. It is a lot. So if today stirred something up in you,
00:27:51 --> 00:27:53 because we talked about a lot. We talked briefly about your attempts.
00:27:54 --> 00:27:57 We've talked about cult life. We've talked about escaping that.
00:27:58 --> 00:28:00 We've talked about sexual abuse and physical abuse.
00:28:01 --> 00:28:06 And that's a lot for people to take in. So if it stirred something in you,
00:28:06 --> 00:28:11 and I know it stirred something in me, there are a few things that I hope people will hold on to.
00:28:11 --> 00:28:18 First of all is that survival, and your case is true, survival usually starts
00:28:18 --> 00:28:22 way before anybody else sees it.
00:28:22 --> 00:28:25 You were surviving before anybody ever even knew that you were surviving.
00:28:26 --> 00:28:31 Second thing is that naming your story in your words, in your voice,
00:28:31 --> 00:28:35 that is how we fight back against survival.
00:28:35 --> 00:28:38 The trauma that's happened to you, or anyone for that matter.
00:28:38 --> 00:28:42 And the last thing is that you don't have to tell your whole story all at once.
00:28:43 --> 00:28:47 Yeah. You can do it in layers, just like you're doing with us.
00:28:48 --> 00:28:53 And that pacing and those details, that's up to you. That's completely up to you.
00:28:53 --> 00:28:58 So we're going to end here. I know we're a little longer than we usually are
00:28:58 --> 00:29:03 on our episodes, but there's just so much that we want to be able to touch on.
00:29:03 --> 00:29:07 Next week, we're going to continue with part two of Natasha's story,
00:29:07 --> 00:29:09 her background, what brought her here.
00:29:09 --> 00:29:13 And I just want to say this directly. If today felt really heavy,
00:29:13 --> 00:29:17 it means your body was listening. And that's okay. That's exactly what's supposed to be happening.
00:29:17 --> 00:29:20 It means you're human. There's no way you can hear a story like this and not
00:29:20 --> 00:29:23 feel it in your bones. So take care of yourself.
00:29:23 --> 00:29:28 Take care of your mental health. And we hope you'll join us right back here a week from now.
00:29:28 --> 00:29:32 And in the meantime, just keep surviving. Thank you for listening.
00:29:34 --> 00:29:36 Thanks so much for listening and for being part of the
00:29:36 --> 00:29:39 survivors community no matter where you are in
00:29:39 --> 00:29:42 your story you're not alone and you're definitely not broken
00:29:42 --> 00:29:47 healing takes time and it looks different for everyone the fact that you're
00:29:47 --> 00:29:52 still here and still trying means you're already doing the hard work if something
00:29:52 --> 00:29:56 in today's conversation resonated with you please share it with someone who
00:29:56 --> 00:30:00 might need to hear it too that's how we keep these conversations going and remind
00:30:00 --> 00:30:02 each other that there's always hope.
00:30:03 --> 00:30:05 And if you or someone you know is struggling, please remember,
00:30:06 --> 00:30:07 help is always out there.
00:30:07 --> 00:30:12 You can call or text 988 anytime to reach a trained crisis counselor like me.
00:30:12 --> 00:30:15 And for more mental health resources, tools, treatment options,
00:30:15 --> 00:30:19 and content to support your mental health, visit thehelphub.co.
00:30:19 --> 00:30:23 We're so grateful you're part of the Survivors family, and we'll be back next
00:30:23 --> 00:30:27 week with another honest conversation about life after the hardest things.
00:30:27 --> 00:30:31 Until then, take care of yourself and your people and keep surviving.
00:30:33 --> 00:30:37 Thank you.