*WARNING: This podcast mentions suicide, sexual abuse & trauma and may be triggering.
Episode Summary
In this conversation, Lisa Sugarman and Natasha J Layton discuss the various pressures surrounding the holiday season, particularly focusing on the financial burdens that many families face.
They explore the emotional toll of trying to keep up with societal expectations, the importance of creating meaningful traditions, and practical tips for navigating the holidays without succumbing to financial stress. The discussion emphasizes the value of presence over presents and encourages listeners to prioritize what truly matters during the holiday season.
Episode Sponsored by The HelpHUB™
Struggling with your mental health? Feeling lost, overwhelmed, or just alone? Well, you're not. Welcome to The HelpHUB™—your online destination for mental health resources, treatment options, content, and tools to help meet you exactly where you are in the moment. Visit TheHelpHUB.co to get started.
Takeaways
- We want to broaden the conversation beyond just surviving mental illness.
- The financial burden of the holidays can add significant stress.
- It's important to navigate family dynamics during the holidays.
- Many families spend thousands on holiday celebrations.
- Social media can create pressure to keep up with others.
- Financial stress can take an emotional toll on parents.
- Creating meaningful traditions can be more valuable than expensive gifts.
- It's okay to prioritize what matters most during the holidays.
- Families should set realistic budgets for holiday spending.
- It's important to ask for support when feeling overwhelmed.
Chapters
00:00 Broadening the Conversation on Survival
00:30 Surviving the Financial Burden of the Holidays
02:47 Navigating Family Dynamics During the Holidays
05:09 The Cost of Holiday Celebrations
10:35 The Pressure of Keeping Up with Social Norms
15:51 The Emotional Toll of Financial Stress
20:41 Creating Meaningful Holiday Traditions
26:50 Practical Tips for Surviving Holiday Financial Stress
Mental Health Resources
- If you or someone you know is struggling, please call 988 for help.
- The Survivors Podcast Website – https://thesurvivors.net/
- The HelpHUB™ – Mental health resources, tools, and support networks – https://www.thehelphub.co/
- National Domestic Violence Hotline – Call 1-800-799-SAFE (7223)
Follow & Connect With Us
📷 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/the_survivors_podcast
🔗 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-survivors-podcast
🎥 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheSurvivorsPodcastChannel
🎵📱TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thesurvivorspodcast
See you next week! In the meantime, keep surviving.
00:00:01 --> 00:00:05 Hey, friends, before we dive into this week's episode, just a heads up,
00:00:05 --> 00:00:09 our podcast talks about suicide, sexual abuse, and other trauma,
00:00:09 --> 00:00:13 and some of what you hear may be triggering. So please listen with care.
00:00:13 --> 00:00:19 This is The Survivors, real stories, raw conversations, and the truth about
00:00:19 --> 00:00:21 what it means to keep going after the hardest things.
00:00:22 --> 00:00:25 We're so glad you're here. Let's keep surviving together.
00:00:27 --> 00:00:32 So you and I talked about this a lot, that we don't want to just be talking
00:00:32 --> 00:00:34 about surviving suicide or
00:00:34 --> 00:00:40 surviving mental illness or a lot of the other issues that we talk about.
00:00:40 --> 00:00:43 We want to really kind of broaden the conversation, right?
00:00:43 --> 00:00:46 Yeah, absolutely. And you and I are both moms.
00:00:46 --> 00:00:50 We are surviving parenthood. We're surviving marriage.
00:00:51 --> 00:00:53 We're surviving, you know, a lot of different things that we can talk about.
00:00:53 --> 00:00:57 And so now it's the holidays.
00:00:58 --> 00:01:03 It is actually officially, I'm looking here, it's Christmas Eve.
00:01:04 --> 00:01:08 Can't even believe that it's Christmas Eve. 2025. 2025.
00:01:09 --> 00:01:15 We are like, it's a poof. So we were talking about surviving something a little
00:01:15 --> 00:01:17 bit different for the holidays.
00:01:17 --> 00:01:21 We're going to talk about surviving the financial
00:01:21 --> 00:01:25 burden of the holiday because I
00:01:25 --> 00:01:32 don't know about you but all I feel like I hear is the cha-ching cha-ching like
00:01:32 --> 00:01:40 in my brain around this time of year leading up to like today and it's expensive
00:01:40 --> 00:01:44 there's no other way to say it it's expensive and And it weighs on you.
00:01:44 --> 00:01:48 And if you're already stressed in any way going into the holidays,
00:01:48 --> 00:01:51 which a lot of people are, and we've already talked a lot about this,
00:01:51 --> 00:01:55 you know, all the way back to Thanksgiving and emotional stress and not being
00:01:55 --> 00:01:57 joyful in the holiday season.
00:01:57 --> 00:02:03 But thinking about the financial burden of just getting through the holiday
00:02:03 --> 00:02:06 season, boy, does that add to it.
00:02:06 --> 00:02:13 Damn it. Like really just adds such a thick layer. Where is your.
00:02:14 --> 00:02:19 Where is your head at? I know you're now not doing, like, the big Christmas
00:02:19 --> 00:02:24 with the whole huge extended family of yours, right?
00:02:24 --> 00:02:29 Yeah, because we moved to Virginia earlier this year. Right, right. That helps a lot.
00:02:29 --> 00:02:33 Yeah, and you're not traveling there? Mm-mm. No.
00:02:34 --> 00:02:38 After Monroe died in March of this year, and even before then,
00:02:38 --> 00:02:41 I was like, I don't know when I'll be back.
00:02:41 --> 00:02:46 I just, again, after, you know, losing most of my family because I'm speaking
00:02:46 --> 00:02:51 publicly about my life, there's not really much of a draw for me to go back
00:02:51 --> 00:02:53 there, to be perfectly honest.
00:02:53 --> 00:02:55 So it does, there's a heaviness there.
00:02:56 --> 00:03:01 But I can't remember if we ever, no, we went back in 2020 for Christmas, but we drove.
00:03:01 --> 00:03:06 Driving across the country during holidays from Virginia to Utah.
00:03:07 --> 00:03:08 Zero stars. Do not recommend.
00:03:08 --> 00:03:11 Yeah, not going to do it. Thanks for the tip. not doing it at all.
00:03:12 --> 00:03:13 Got nobody in Utah. Wouldn't even go if I did.
00:03:14 --> 00:03:18 So look, we have family in Florida. And this year, this Thanksgiving,
00:03:19 --> 00:03:24 was one of the first years since the pandemic. We had to obviously be split up.
00:03:24 --> 00:03:28 Everybody had to be kind of in isolation for those couple of years.
00:03:28 --> 00:03:33 But aside from that, like we hosted for 20 years and I had everybody to my house.
00:03:33 --> 00:03:35 And then after that, when our parents started getting older,
00:03:35 --> 00:03:39 we would now have to go down to Florida, which is where fortunately both sets
00:03:39 --> 00:03:43 of parents, mine and Dave's are in Florida and everybody's pretty close together.
00:03:43 --> 00:03:49 But it means flying down during vacation, which means you're paying the absolute
00:03:49 --> 00:03:51 most for everything you can possibly pay for.
00:03:51 --> 00:03:55 And it means you've got to.
00:03:56 --> 00:04:03 Factor in all of these other expenses on top of an already pricey holiday.
00:04:04 --> 00:04:07 We did not go down this year because both my daughters are teachers,
00:04:07 --> 00:04:13 but my youngest who lives here with us in Boston couldn't get away.
00:04:13 --> 00:04:17 Her boyfriend couldn't get away for more than a couple of days.
00:04:17 --> 00:04:20 So all of a sudden we're racking up these charges, looking at flights.
00:04:20 --> 00:04:26 It was going to cost us for the four of us to fly down for like 48 hours in
00:04:26 --> 00:04:29 Florida, not even out the door yet.
00:04:30 --> 00:04:35 It was going to cost us five grand to fly down there for like 48 hours.
00:04:35 --> 00:04:39 And so we were like, this is absurd. This is ridiculous.
00:04:39 --> 00:04:44 We can't do that. You and I are in different parts of the world right now.
00:04:44 --> 00:04:47 I'm in Japan at the moment.
00:04:48 --> 00:04:56 And that, I mean, I don't even want to say what the price tag for four of us
00:04:56 --> 00:04:59 flying here for the holidays has been. But like,
00:05:00 --> 00:05:05 That's what we've had to do is put all of our resources into prioritizing and
00:05:05 --> 00:05:07 doing that. And it's stressful.
00:05:08 --> 00:05:12 Absolutely. It's really, really stressful. You know, I was looking at the numbers
00:05:12 --> 00:05:14 because I love looking at numbers and stats.
00:05:14 --> 00:05:20 And I was looking at numbers from what the average family spends for the holidays.
00:05:20 --> 00:05:28 And it's like between Thanksgiving to New Year's, I think it's like $2 or
00:05:28 --> 00:05:30 close to $3 per family.
00:05:30 --> 00:05:37 If you're a family of four, just on like gifts and decorations and activities.
00:05:37 --> 00:05:39 And if you're flying anywhere, forget it.
00:05:40 --> 00:05:44 Double it. Triple it. Add on like another couple grand, few grand.
00:05:44 --> 00:05:49 And I really kind of sometimes wish we could go back to that time where the
00:05:49 --> 00:05:51 holidays were about, you know what I used to love?
00:05:51 --> 00:05:54 One of my favorite, so we celebrate Hanukkah because we're Jewish.
00:05:55 --> 00:05:59 Do you know what one of my favorite gifts was from Hanukkah? Two things.
00:05:59 --> 00:06:06 My mother would get me the book of coupons from McDonald's.
00:06:06 --> 00:06:09 It was like, we don't have stocking stuffers, but my mother would get me like
00:06:09 --> 00:06:12 a silly little, you know, I was always getting like eight gifts because it's
00:06:12 --> 00:06:13 eight nights of Hanukkah.
00:06:13 --> 00:06:18 And I would get my little coupon book from McDonald's, and that meant I could
00:06:18 --> 00:06:22 go in and get as many fries as I wanted, and she would get me,
00:06:22 --> 00:06:25 do you remember that they used to give the, they were like books of lifesavers?
00:06:26 --> 00:06:30 Do you remember that? There were these books. They were like little boxes,
00:06:31 --> 00:06:35 little cardboard boxes, and it looked like a book and you opened it up and it
00:06:35 --> 00:06:39 had like a dozen different varieties of lifesavers.
00:06:40 --> 00:06:46 I don't know why. It probably cost $2.87. It was my favorite gift.
00:06:47 --> 00:06:53 Any particular reason why? Because it was a book full of lifesavers that I could eat.
00:06:53 --> 00:06:57 That's why it was my favorite thing. And like, I like really,
00:06:57 --> 00:07:01 I miss those times when things were so simple because now it's like your kids
00:07:01 --> 00:07:05 want electronics and you got to get them a pair of Birkenstocks and Uggs and
00:07:05 --> 00:07:08 a new switch. And it's hard.
00:07:08 --> 00:07:15 But we never do that. We don't. George and I, I am just going back to work for the first time.
00:07:15 --> 00:07:19 Well, I've tried to go back periodically through the years and it was usually
00:07:19 --> 00:07:22 six to eight months. I've done that two or three times since my kids were born.
00:07:22 --> 00:07:26 But primarily I've been a full-time mom. So living on a single income.
00:07:26 --> 00:07:29 And so things have been tight for us a lot of times.
00:07:30 --> 00:07:33 There was many Christmases where George and I didn't get each other anything
00:07:33 --> 00:07:37 other than little stocking stuffers because we couldn't afford to.
00:07:37 --> 00:07:42 Well, for years, I mean, for years and years, Dave and I haven't exchanged gifts.
00:07:42 --> 00:07:44 We don't do birthday gifts.
00:07:44 --> 00:07:47 We don't do anniversary gifts. We stopped doing that a long time ago.
00:07:47 --> 00:07:50 And it wasn't, I wouldn't say that it was a financially motivated decision,
00:07:50 --> 00:07:54 although I guess it kind of was because we were really just saving whatever
00:07:54 --> 00:07:58 resources we had to put into doing things for the kids or getting things for the kids.
00:07:58 --> 00:08:05 We're big into experiences instead, so we would go somewhere or do something special.
00:08:05 --> 00:08:10 He and I have always been runners, so we would go somewhere and do a destination
00:08:10 --> 00:08:14 run or something like that where we could make memories at that time.
00:08:14 --> 00:08:16 And maybe it wasn't getting on a plane. Maybe it was getting in the car and
00:08:16 --> 00:08:19 driving somewhere fun and doing that.
00:08:19 --> 00:08:24 So it wasn't really as much a financially motivated decision, but.
00:08:25 --> 00:08:28 We haven't exchanged gifts like that in a really long time because it's kind
00:08:28 --> 00:08:33 of like we're at the point where if we wanted something, we could kind of go out and get it.
00:08:33 --> 00:08:38 And, you know, I've been wearing the same jewelry for ever and ever and ever
00:08:38 --> 00:08:42 because it's what I love and it's simple. And I'm not the kind of person who's,
00:08:42 --> 00:08:47 you know, going out and buying expensive anything really ever.
00:08:48 --> 00:08:53 And, yeah, I don't know. But it's hard because we live in a really affluent
00:08:53 --> 00:09:00 area here north of Boston. in this little harbor town that is, it's a quirky place.
00:09:00 --> 00:09:03 And it's got a lot of old money.
00:09:03 --> 00:09:07 And our kids growing up, they knew their friends were getting,
00:09:08 --> 00:09:10 you know, the BMW with the big red bow when they turned 16.
00:09:11 --> 00:09:16 And they belonged to yacht clubs. And everybody for every holiday was,
00:09:17 --> 00:09:22 you know, going to Aspen for Christmas or going on some extravagant cruise.
00:09:22 --> 00:09:29 And, And, you know, we were never those people who had unlimited resources like
00:09:29 --> 00:09:30 that. We worked for everything we had.
00:09:31 --> 00:09:35 We both came from middle-class families, and our dads busted their asses,
00:09:35 --> 00:09:37 and our parents, both our moms, worked.
00:09:38 --> 00:09:44 But it's hard. I feel like there's still this shame that people have to survive
00:09:44 --> 00:09:49 and figure out and navigate, the shame of seeing what other people do,
00:09:49 --> 00:09:53 especially like around the holidays, where we live in this social media bubble
00:09:53 --> 00:09:58 where you know it's all about do it for the gram. It's all about.
00:09:59 --> 00:10:05 You know, showing where you are. I mean, I happen to be out of the country right now,
00:10:05 --> 00:10:09 and I'm kind of being a little bit of a hypocrite in this moment in this conversation,
00:10:09 --> 00:10:12 but it's different because I have a child who lives abroad, and we save up all
00:10:12 --> 00:10:15 year to be able to be together over the holidays.
00:10:15 --> 00:10:18 So, you know, it's a little bit different where we're concerned.
00:10:19 --> 00:10:22 But I mean, I don't know about you.
00:10:22 --> 00:10:27 Did you know a lot of people who were like living off equity lines or credit cards.
00:10:27 --> 00:10:32 I knew a lot of people in my town who did a lot of keeping up with the Joneses,
00:10:32 --> 00:10:36 and they were maxing out credit cards to join country clubs.
00:10:36 --> 00:10:42 They were going into debt to make sure that they had a boat in the harbor.
00:10:43 --> 00:10:47 Did you have that experience? I mean, you grew up in a different place.
00:10:47 --> 00:10:53 You grew up in a very different kind of environment as a member of the FLDS.
00:10:54 --> 00:10:59 I mean, as I got older, yeah, I grew up in Utah, where, keeping up with the
00:10:59 --> 00:11:01 Joneses, that originated there.
00:11:02 --> 00:11:07 The Mormon culture is so about what it looks like on the exterior.
00:11:08 --> 00:11:13 So, absolutely, our people live above their means with that.
00:11:13 --> 00:11:18 Camp trailer and a boat and all the things in their driveways. 100%. Yeah. Okay.
00:11:18 --> 00:11:23 And so, yeah, I definitely know that people, and, you know, unfortunately,
00:11:24 --> 00:11:27 in where I grew up, you weren't taught how to handle money very well.
00:11:27 --> 00:11:32 So, I know that my parents went into debt for a number of things to try and survive.
00:11:33 --> 00:11:37 And then when we were finally able to celebrate Christmas, it was cool,
00:11:37 --> 00:11:40 but it was still relatively small with so many kids
00:11:40 --> 00:11:44 i know that there were pictures and they
00:11:44 --> 00:11:47 limited it to like two or three gifts per person and it's
00:11:47 --> 00:11:50 still the gifts spread out halfway into the living room
00:11:50 --> 00:11:53 it was insane well you have 20 there
00:11:53 --> 00:11:56 were 20 kids in your family so yeah at
00:11:56 --> 00:11:59 most i think there was like 15 of us but still yeah
00:11:59 --> 00:12:02 it's it's a lot absolutely and and we did move
00:12:02 --> 00:12:06 back to Utah for two years my husband and I and the kids and
00:12:06 --> 00:12:09 those two Christmases it was a lot harder to
00:12:09 --> 00:12:12 to keep up with it and I definitely know that we
00:12:12 --> 00:12:15 went into some credit card debt just to make sure that we had gifts for every
00:12:15 --> 00:12:21 single person and it just it's not sustainable to be perfectly honest and so
00:12:21 --> 00:12:26 this year it's just the kids and I think I might send a yeah gonna send something
00:12:26 --> 00:12:30 to my brother Ward but beyond that I just sorry folks I'm.
00:12:31 --> 00:12:35 George and I, we have a plan and we're saving up to buy and build or to build
00:12:35 --> 00:12:37 our house here, our dream house here in Virginia.
00:12:37 --> 00:12:41 And it's about making sacrifices. And even though we have now that I have a
00:12:41 --> 00:12:45 full time job, we can spend a little bit more on Christmas because we've tried
00:12:45 --> 00:12:49 the whole experience things the last couple of years with the kids for the holidays
00:12:49 --> 00:12:51 and they don't love it. They feel ripped off.
00:12:52 --> 00:12:57 I'm like, you're like, come on, guys. Yeah. So, I mean, last Christmas we were
00:12:57 --> 00:12:58 down on the Florida Keys.
00:12:59 --> 00:13:04 Last year, we did a full-time RV journey, and my kids, we just didn't think it was that amazing.
00:13:05 --> 00:13:08 I'm like, I am 40 freaking years old, and I'm here for the first time,
00:13:09 --> 00:13:11 and y'all are just like, it's okay.
00:13:11 --> 00:13:13 Let me tell you something. You get that attitude from them again.
00:13:13 --> 00:13:18 You give me their spot. I will go. I will go.
00:13:18 --> 00:13:23 I mean, we were staying in a camper, but still, this gorgeous blue water,
00:13:23 --> 00:13:28 and I guess they're still in the mindset of...
00:13:28 --> 00:13:31 The things which again it's not like we've
00:13:31 --> 00:13:34 ever spent an exorbitant amount of money on gifts but i
00:13:34 --> 00:13:37 think it's just the the culture we live in
00:13:37 --> 00:13:39 and it's the things and it's really hard
00:13:39 --> 00:13:43 and trying to find the right gifts the older they get it gets so hard did you
00:13:43 --> 00:13:47 find that like i have videos when they were younger and they just everything
00:13:47 --> 00:13:54 was well mom and now it's like cool yeah looking for mental health resources
00:13:54 --> 00:13:59 that actually fit who you are and where you come from, then you need to check out the Help Hub.
00:13:59 --> 00:14:04 It's not another generic wellness site. It's a free, inclusive online platform
00:14:04 --> 00:14:07 built for real people living real lives.
00:14:07 --> 00:14:14 People managing stress, anxiety, depression, trauma and abuse, grief or suicide loss.
00:14:14 --> 00:14:18 At the Help Hub, you'll find the resources, tools, treatment options,
00:14:18 --> 00:14:22 and trauma-informed content you need in the moment without having to dig through
00:14:22 --> 00:14:24 endless tabs or start from scratch.
00:14:25 --> 00:14:31 It's your place to land, to take a breath, and to find exactly what you need when you need it most.
00:14:32 --> 00:14:36 Visit thehelphub.co, where the help you need is just a click away.
00:14:42 --> 00:14:48 Yeah, I totally get that. And it's interesting because a long,
00:14:48 --> 00:14:52 long time ago, so my mom always used to give me like eight gifts for Hanukkah.
00:14:52 --> 00:14:57 But it was like, I would get books and I would get the McDonald's gift certificates
00:14:57 --> 00:15:01 and the, you know, the book of lifesavers and all the other little things and
00:15:01 --> 00:15:03 socks or whatever it was that I got.
00:15:03 --> 00:15:07 You know, I get like something fun here and there. And so we've always kind
00:15:07 --> 00:15:08 of done the same thing with our kids.
00:15:08 --> 00:15:13 We always let our kids tell us what's one thing that you really, really, really want.
00:15:13 --> 00:15:17 And that was kind of the thing that we would save up for, that we would get for them.
00:15:17 --> 00:15:20 And then the other things were like little, little things where all the kids
00:15:20 --> 00:15:23 around them, like it was hard. You talk about a comparison culture.
00:15:24 --> 00:15:31 All the other kids around them were getting major high ticket items.
00:15:31 --> 00:15:36 And we told our kids, look, we live in a place where you're going to see your
00:15:36 --> 00:15:38 friends have a lot of things that you don't have.
00:15:38 --> 00:15:41 And maybe you'll have some things that other friends don't have.
00:15:41 --> 00:15:43 So we're not keeping up with anybody.
00:15:43 --> 00:15:49 So our kids kind of knew that going into their early adulthood,
00:15:49 --> 00:15:53 teens and into adulthood. So they knew that we just did things differently.
00:15:53 --> 00:15:55 But I feel like...
00:15:56 --> 00:16:00 You and I talk a lot about the whole illusion of being fine and mental health
00:16:00 --> 00:16:06 and wellness and surviving and what that does to your overall wellness.
00:16:06 --> 00:16:11 And we don't just pretend we're fine with things like emotions.
00:16:12 --> 00:16:15 We also do it in this financial bubble, too.
00:16:16 --> 00:16:19 We pretend that, oh, we're totally fine.
00:16:19 --> 00:16:23 And we ignore the credit card bill that's coming at the end of the month.
00:16:23 --> 00:16:30 And we pretend that we've got unlimited resources and we don't want to disappoint our kids.
00:16:30 --> 00:16:38 But the truth is that there's a lot of shame for a lot of people attached to
00:16:38 --> 00:16:43 the idea of financial pressure, you know,
00:16:44 --> 00:16:46 feeling like it's another layer of failure.
00:16:46 --> 00:16:52 And that's a lot. I mean, I know that at times, you know, as a parent,
00:16:52 --> 00:16:55 like you want to be able to give your kids either the things that you didn't
00:16:55 --> 00:17:00 have or all the things that they may want and, of course, the things that they need.
00:17:00 --> 00:17:06 But, you know, there comes a point where you really have to be realistic and pick and choose.
00:17:06 --> 00:17:09 And I feel like there are a lot of people, at least maybe people that I know
00:17:09 --> 00:17:15 in my life, who are really just all about the smoke and mirrors.
00:17:15 --> 00:17:19 And I can't imagine how much stress that that puts on people.
00:17:20 --> 00:17:25 I wish people would just find the strength to be like, this is what I can do
00:17:25 --> 00:17:27 and this is what I can't do.
00:17:28 --> 00:17:31 You know yeah and it's okay it's here's the
00:17:31 --> 00:17:34 thing and this is a big thing are you
00:17:34 --> 00:17:38 surrounded by the people that you love and that
00:17:38 --> 00:17:41 you enjoy and i hear that all the time it's just
00:17:41 --> 00:17:44 it's about the people not the things but still there's
00:17:44 --> 00:17:47 just this underlying nope it has to be the
00:17:47 --> 00:17:50 biggest and the grandest and i love social
00:17:50 --> 00:17:53 media but i hate it at the same time because it has really just
00:17:53 --> 00:17:58 added to that pressure of making it look real and now as we're doing what we're
00:17:58 --> 00:18:04 doing and i've had to become a concrete content creator oh yeah there's i and
00:18:04 --> 00:18:08 i keep a kid play a pretty clean house but they're still just like oh this is
00:18:08 --> 00:18:11 the part of my house where it looks the best,
00:18:11 --> 00:18:15 you know as you notice i'm in a different background i'm actually having to
00:18:15 --> 00:18:19 film in my son's bedroom because we were dealing with echo stuff i know it's
00:18:19 --> 00:18:25 really just a matter of you know what blocking out all the bullshit around you
00:18:25 --> 00:18:28 and saying what can i actually afford.
00:18:30 --> 00:18:33 And and what is not going to break the brink and
00:18:33 --> 00:18:38 bring the pressure it really comes down to people have got to stop worrying
00:18:38 --> 00:18:42 about what other people think and what else because guess what doesn't fucking
00:18:42 --> 00:18:49 matter it is none of your business what other people think of you that's on
00:18:49 --> 00:18:53 them that's 100% on someone else.
00:18:53 --> 00:19:02 And if someone is going to judge you or your family, I don't mean you, Natasha, I mean anyone—,
00:19:02 --> 00:19:06 based on where you spend the holiday or how big your tree is or,
00:19:06 --> 00:19:09 you know, what gifts you got your kids.
00:19:10 --> 00:19:14 I don't know about you, but that is not somebody that I want to be aligned with.
00:19:14 --> 00:19:17 That's not somebody I want to care about. So you and I come at all this.
00:19:17 --> 00:19:20 I don't know about you, but do you have a totally different perspective about
00:19:20 --> 00:19:24 just what matters and what doesn't as a survivor?
00:19:25 --> 00:19:29 Oh, 100 percent. And especially after the last five years and everything that
00:19:29 --> 00:19:35 we have been through has absolutely shifted my perspective on so many things. Yeah, absolutely.
00:19:36 --> 00:19:41 Definitely. Material things don't matter. Absolutely don't matter.
00:19:42 --> 00:19:50 For me, it is about whether we're—and mentally, that is the biggest factor in my life at this point.
00:19:50 --> 00:19:54 And I—looking at my mental health and being like, what can I handle?
00:19:54 --> 00:19:58 If I'm not taking care of myself, I can't be there for my family,
00:19:58 --> 00:20:00 my children and my husband, when I say my family.
00:20:01 --> 00:20:05 I can't be there for them in the way that I need to be. So if that means that
00:20:05 --> 00:20:09 you're taking as the mother, because so much of the holiday pressure falls on
00:20:09 --> 00:20:10 the mother's shoulders,
00:20:11 --> 00:20:15 and all those mothers out there that are buying gifts for her extended family,
00:20:15 --> 00:20:19 the husband's extended family, and it just gets to be too much, stop it right now.
00:20:19 --> 00:20:22 Stop it. That's what I have to say about it.
00:20:22 --> 00:20:27 We're both saying stop it. Everyone should stop it. And I wish people would. I mean...
00:20:28 --> 00:20:33 One of the things that I've personally done an awful lot of in the last number
00:20:33 --> 00:20:39 of years is make things more about presence, like your presence,
00:20:39 --> 00:20:45 your focus, your energy, your time, than about the gifts that I give.
00:20:46 --> 00:20:48 I try to make things meaningful.
00:20:48 --> 00:20:53 I try to make things very intentional. And I know for my own kids,
00:20:54 --> 00:20:57 Dave and I have said this to our girls for I don't even know how many years.
00:20:57 --> 00:21:01 It's probably going on like a decade or more at this point.
00:21:02 --> 00:21:06 We don't want any presents from them. I don't want a gift from them.
00:21:06 --> 00:21:08 I don't need a birthday gift. I don't need a Mother's Day gift.
00:21:08 --> 00:21:09 I don't need any of those things.
00:21:11 --> 00:21:18 I value the time that my kids spend with me more than I value absolutely anything.
00:21:18 --> 00:21:24 There is no gift, no object that they can give to me, short of like,
00:21:24 --> 00:21:29 you know, the old, like, pinch pot that's completely crooked and doesn't even
00:21:29 --> 00:21:33 look like a pinch pot that they gave me. You don't know what a pinch pot is?
00:21:33 --> 00:21:38 What, did you grow up in Utah as a member of the FLDS or something and don't
00:21:38 --> 00:21:40 know what a pinch pot is? That's a fact I did, yes.
00:21:41 --> 00:21:46 A pinch pot is clay. It's just like a little clay where you don't put it on, like, a wheel.
00:21:47 --> 00:21:51 You just have your little blob of clay and you just kind of pinch a pot out
00:21:51 --> 00:21:53 of your little blob of clay.
00:21:53 --> 00:21:58 Or maybe you roll out the clay into what look like little ropes of clay and
00:21:58 --> 00:22:00 you wind them around so it...
00:22:01 --> 00:22:06 Makes a little pot. That's a pinch pot. I have no idea what you're talking about.
00:22:06 --> 00:22:09 When we stop recording, I'm going directly to YouTube and I'm sending you a
00:22:09 --> 00:22:13 video about pinch pots because this is ridiculous that you don't know what this is.
00:22:14 --> 00:22:18 Well, those are the things that I, you know, like the pictures my kids would
00:22:18 --> 00:22:22 draw or paint that had like Dave's head was huge and, you know.
00:22:23 --> 00:22:28 I have huge bands, like huge bands for each of my kids from when they were little. Yeah, so do I.
00:22:29 --> 00:22:34 And that's the stuff that matters. So, all right, let's talk about what we can
00:22:34 --> 00:22:39 do to just kind of let go of that financial stress,
00:22:39 --> 00:22:45 to like survive the financial stress, because there is actually a way to survive
00:22:45 --> 00:22:48 the holidays without going broke and losing your mind.
00:22:48 --> 00:22:50 I know there is because we've done it.
00:22:51 --> 00:22:56 And, you know, the truth is that most of the memories that our kids hang on
00:22:56 --> 00:22:59 to didn't cost a thing. They don't cost anything. They were small.
00:22:59 --> 00:23:02 They were simple, little teeny tiny things. They were real.
00:23:03 --> 00:23:07 But, you know, we've already said that somewhere along the way,
00:23:07 --> 00:23:13 we got sold this lie that we have to spend thousands of dollars to make the holiday meaningful.
00:23:13 --> 00:23:21 And that's just complete and total bullshit. So can you remember what would
00:23:21 --> 00:23:26 be a really meaningful memory that you had growing up that cost nothing,
00:23:26 --> 00:23:30 either that you made with your kids or that you had as a kid? Do you remember?
00:23:31 --> 00:23:35 Well, for me and my children, a tradition that we have on Christmas Eve is we
00:23:35 --> 00:23:39 make the cookies for Santa Claus, fresh, homemade, from scratch cookies.
00:23:40 --> 00:23:43 I love that. And we make those and we put them out on the plate.
00:23:43 --> 00:23:48 We have this one plate that I found at Goodwill, and it's a Santa plate.
00:23:48 --> 00:23:53 And this is something I picked up from my mom, is carrots for the reindeer.
00:23:54 --> 00:23:58 Oh, that's cute. The cookie, the milk, and then the carrots for the reindeer.
00:23:59 --> 00:24:03 And then I don't know where my mom picked it up, but then she would go.
00:24:03 --> 00:24:07 And she did this for my younger siblings because, again, growing up in the FLDS,
00:24:07 --> 00:24:10 we weren't allowed to celebrate Christmas and do all the Santa things.
00:24:11 --> 00:24:15 But she would get dog food and sprinkle it out on the grass or on the snow and
00:24:15 --> 00:24:17 make it look like reindeer poop.
00:24:17 --> 00:24:23 That's really cute. So my mom did a lot of cute things for Wardy and Shailene
00:24:23 --> 00:24:25 that she didn't get to do with us, which is fun.
00:24:25 --> 00:24:29 But, you know, it's just little things like that. And in the kitchen,
00:24:29 --> 00:24:34 there's so much magic that could happen in the kitchen.
00:24:34 --> 00:24:37 I'm so glad you said that because I wish my girls, I'm going to have to have
00:24:37 --> 00:24:39 them listen to this part of this episode.
00:24:39 --> 00:24:44 Because when they were little, my youngest wanted to be a chef for the longest time.
00:24:44 --> 00:24:49 So anything involving the kitchen, she was the first one on the scene. always there.
00:24:49 --> 00:24:54 We have such incredible memories. My oldest could kind of take it or leave it.
00:24:54 --> 00:24:58 Like she was always the one who would enjoy it when I got her to do it.
00:24:58 --> 00:25:03 But we do have some absolutely beautiful memories.
00:25:03 --> 00:25:06 Like it's so funny when my mom's been living in Florida now for the last 30
00:25:06 --> 00:25:10 years, over 30 years. And so that's where we go to visit the family.
00:25:11 --> 00:25:17 And I can picture my kids, especially my youngest Libby, the minute we would
00:25:17 --> 00:25:19 open the door and get into my mom's house.
00:25:20 --> 00:25:25 The bags would get dropped and she would immediately run into my mother's closet
00:25:25 --> 00:25:26 and grab the little apron.
00:25:26 --> 00:25:29 My mom had little aprons for the girls.
00:25:29 --> 00:25:34 And so on goes the apron. Libby used to run around with a bottle of fantastic and...
00:25:35 --> 00:25:39 Roll a paper towel, cleaning. That was her thing. That was her greatest joy. I love that.
00:25:40 --> 00:25:44 Paper towels, Windex, and then she would immediately go into the kitchen and
00:25:44 --> 00:25:49 grab my mom's big mixing bowl and try to get my mom into the kitchen as fast
00:25:49 --> 00:25:51 as possible. Get me, what are we making today?
00:25:51 --> 00:25:56 And did the same thing with my mother-in-law. And they have these beautiful memories.
00:25:56 --> 00:26:01 And for me, it's about setting holiday tables.
00:26:01 --> 00:26:05 Like I always remember When they were little, getting them involved in writing
00:26:05 --> 00:26:11 place cards and setting tables and making cute little centerpieces and all that
00:26:11 --> 00:26:13 stuff. And that's what I loved.
00:26:13 --> 00:26:21 Those are the things that stick out the most. So things that don't cost anything at all. Yeah.
00:26:22 --> 00:26:29 So, okay, before we wrap up this conversation, let's make this super,
00:26:29 --> 00:26:31 super practical for people.
00:26:32 --> 00:26:36 If the financial pressure is crushing you and you're trying to survive,
00:26:36 --> 00:26:40 and you've gotten here to this point, you got to get through the rest of the
00:26:40 --> 00:26:43 holiday and then there's New Year's that's next week.
00:26:44 --> 00:26:45 So here are a few things that you
00:26:45 --> 00:26:50 can do if you're still feeling kind of crushed by the weight of it all.
00:26:51 --> 00:26:54 Set a real budget, a real one, not the fake one.
00:26:56 --> 00:26:59 Is the budget that keeps up with all the people around you. Set a budget that
00:26:59 --> 00:27:05 your family can handle without considering what any other family is doing or spending.
00:27:05 --> 00:27:11 And don't feel guilty about it. And don't make explanations for it. Start a free tradition.
00:27:12 --> 00:27:17 Start some kind of a free tradition. Maybe do like a before dinner,
00:27:17 --> 00:27:25 after dinner walk, or maybe it's like pajama movie night on New Year's Eve or
00:27:25 --> 00:27:28 during the holiday just to do some things.
00:27:28 --> 00:27:33 Or maybe you go to a shelter as a family and you give back.
00:27:33 --> 00:27:37 You're not just doing something that's free, you're actually giving back and you do that as a family.
00:27:38 --> 00:27:40 Nothing opens up your eyes like
00:27:40 --> 00:27:45 a situation like that, especially for kids these days. That is the truth.
00:27:45 --> 00:27:52 And it's sobering. It's really, really sobering when you realize how much more
00:27:52 --> 00:27:56 we most often have than the other people around us. Stay off social media.
00:27:57 --> 00:28:02 Even if it makes you feel like crap, stay off social media because 90% of the
00:28:02 --> 00:28:03 time when you're on social media,
00:28:03 --> 00:28:06 especially over the holidays, all you're doing is comparing what your table
00:28:06 --> 00:28:10 and your life and your holiday is looking like against everybody else's.
00:28:11 --> 00:28:12 Don't do that to yourself. Don't do it to your kids.
00:28:14 --> 00:28:20 If you're really, really struggling this holiday season, Ask for support. Ask for support.
00:28:21 --> 00:28:28 And maybe it isn't even financial support. Maybe it's emotional support.
00:28:28 --> 00:28:31 Just let the people around you carry a little bit of the load.
00:28:33 --> 00:28:39 And you're also allowed to create a quiet holiday. There is no right way or
00:28:39 --> 00:28:40 wrong way to do the holidays.
00:28:41 --> 00:28:45 So it doesn't matter how big your family is or small your family is.
00:28:45 --> 00:28:49 Whatever suits you is what's right for the holidays.
00:28:50 --> 00:28:55 Or at least that's how I have started to feel about it.
00:28:55 --> 00:28:59 And I don't really think I'll ever go back to feeling any other way about it.
00:28:59 --> 00:29:03 I'm so over comparing my life to anybody else's life.
00:29:03 --> 00:29:08 That's how we feel like we fall behind and we're letting people down and that
00:29:08 --> 00:29:09 burden becomes so heavy.
00:29:10 --> 00:29:17 Comparison is truly the thief of joy It is It's awful And you know You don't
00:29:17 --> 00:29:22 need to spend a lot of money To make your holiday meaningful So,
00:29:23 --> 00:29:29 Handmade gifts and things like that Just the little things Really Yeah So if
00:29:29 --> 00:29:34 the financial pressure of the holidays Has been suffocating you at all Right
00:29:34 --> 00:29:39 now You're not failing Just have a mind shift And know that
00:29:39 --> 00:29:42 You don't have to keep up with anybody else. You really don't. Nope.
00:29:44 --> 00:29:49 We want you to have a happy Christmas. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year and
00:29:49 --> 00:29:52 whatever it is that you're doing to celebrate the holidays.
00:29:52 --> 00:29:56 We're really glad that you at least took, you know, 30 minutes out of your time
00:29:56 --> 00:29:57 to spend a few minutes with us.
00:29:58 --> 00:30:01 And hopefully this helps take a little bit of the pressure off.
00:30:01 --> 00:30:05 And if all else fails, if you feel like, you know what, it wasn't as magical
00:30:05 --> 00:30:08 as you thought it could be, have a dance party with your kids.
00:30:09 --> 00:30:12 If they remember nothing else from the holidays, I swear.
00:30:13 --> 00:30:19 And the crazier you dance and act for your kids, the more they love it. I'm serious.
00:30:19 --> 00:30:21 Yeah. I'm going to tell you this
00:30:21 --> 00:30:25 one thing that my older kids do not like when I do that at this point.
00:30:25 --> 00:30:28 So that advice is for parents with younger kids.
00:30:28 --> 00:30:34 Works like a charm. Nope. I'm going to do it. Nope. The cringe will live on in our house forever.
00:30:35 --> 00:30:38 Good for you. You make them cringe no matter what. But hey, I'll keep surviving
00:30:38 --> 00:30:41 if you keep surviving, okay? Sounds good. Have a good one.
00:30:41 --> 00:30:43 Okay. Two. Happy holidays. Bye.
00:30:45 --> 00:30:48 Thanks so much for listening and for being part of the Survivors community.
00:30:49 --> 00:30:53 No matter where you are in your story, you're not alone and you're definitely not broken.
00:30:54 --> 00:30:58 Healing takes time and it looks different for everyone. The fact that you're
00:30:58 --> 00:31:01 still here and still trying means you're already doing the hard work.
00:31:02 --> 00:31:06 If something in today's conversation resonated with you, please share it with
00:31:06 --> 00:31:07 someone who might need to hear it too.
00:31:08 --> 00:31:13 That's how we keep these conversations going and remind each other that there's always hope.
00:31:13 --> 00:31:16 And if you or someone you know is struggling, please remember,
00:31:16 --> 00:31:17 help is always out there.
00:31:18 --> 00:31:22 You can call or text 988 anytime to reach a trained crisis counselor like me.
00:31:22 --> 00:31:26 And for more mental health resources, tools, treatment options,
00:31:26 --> 00:31:30 and content to support your mental health, visit thehelphub.co.
00:31:30 --> 00:31:34 We're so grateful you're part of the Survivors family, and we'll be back next
00:31:34 --> 00:31:37 week with another honest conversation about life after the hardest things.
00:31:38 --> 00:31:42 Until then, take care of yourself and your people, and keep surviving.