*WARNING: This podcast mentions suicide, sexual abuse & trauma and may be triggering.
Episode Summary
In this episode of The Survivors, we celebrate Lisa’s long-awaited book launch, Surviving: Finding Hope After Suicide Loss (Familius Books).
Lisa reveals learning decades later that her father died by suicide, and describes how writing the memoir—now featuring her mother's voice and a built-in resource directory and toolkit—became a healing journey.
Lisa & Natasha discuss grief, stigma, therapy, crisis counseling, and practical supports like 988 and The HelpHUB™, and invite listeners to the launch event on Saturday, May 2 at Shubie's Marketplace, 16 Atlantic Avenue, Marblehead, MA, while encouraging anyone struggling to seek help and community.
Episode Sponsored by The HelpHUB™
Struggling with your mental health? Feeling lost, overwhelmed, or just alone? Well, you're not. Welcome to The HelpHUB™—your online destination for mental health resources, treatment options, content, and tools to help meet you exactly where you are in the moment. Visit TheHelpHUB.co to get started.
Takeaways
- Sharing personal stories can help break the taboo around suicide and mental health.
- Understanding that mental illness is an illness like any other fosters compassion and reduces stigma.
- Creating a support network and resources is crucial for survivors of suicide loss.
- Healing is a process that involves revisiting pain, seeking support, and finding hope.
- Open communication within families can strengthen bonds and aid in collective healing.
- Lisa's upcoming book launch event in Marblehead, MA on May 2.
Chapters
00:00 Book Launch Celebration 01:36 The Journey of Writing a Memoir 03:11 Revisiting Grief and Loss 06:11 Changing Perspectives on Suicide 08:21 Incorporating Family Voices 12:52 The Urgency of Mental Health Awareness 18:18 Healing Through Shared Stories 22:22 Creating Safe Spaces for Conversations 29:25 The Impact of Sharing Experiences 32:02 A Message of Hope and ResourcesMental Health Resources
- If you or someone you know is struggling, please call 988 for help.
- The Survivors Podcast Website – https://thesurvivors.net/
- The HelpHUB™ – Mental health resources, tools, and support networks – https://www.thehelphub.co/
- National Domestic Violence Hotline – Call 1-800-799-SAFE (7223)
- Surviving: Finding Hope After Suicide Loss (Familius Books)
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See you next week! In the meantime, keep surviving.
00:00:00 --> 00:00:05 Hey friends, before we dive into this week's episode, just a heads up.
00:00:05 --> 00:00:09 Our podcast talks about suicide, sexual abuse, and other trauma,
00:00:09 --> 00:00:13 and some of what you hear may be triggering. So please listen with care.
00:00:13 --> 00:00:19 This is The Survivors. Real stories, raw conversations, and the truth about
00:00:19 --> 00:00:21 what it means to keep going after the hardest things.
00:00:21 --> 00:00:25 We're so glad you're here. Let's keep surviving together. other.
00:00:27 --> 00:00:30 So today is a very special day here on the pod.
00:00:31 --> 00:00:36 Miss Lisa is having a book launch today. It is dropping today.
00:00:36 --> 00:00:41 It is. One of the biggest pieces of work that you have done to date, correct? Yes. Yes.
00:00:41 --> 00:00:45 Yeah. That's, that's, it feels to me like an understatement,
00:00:45 --> 00:00:50 but yes, it was definitely the longest project I've ever worked on.
00:00:51 --> 00:00:53 It's been over six years to get to this point.
00:00:53 --> 00:00:57 I can't even believe it. You worked on this book? On this book, yeah. Okay.
00:00:58 --> 00:01:04 Yeah. So you are, in my opinion, and of course in literary, you are quite an
00:01:04 --> 00:01:07 accomplished author. You've had how many books published now?
00:01:07 --> 00:01:11 This is number four. Okay. This is number four. And countless articles.
00:01:12 --> 00:01:16 I mean, I'm so incredibly grateful to have you as a co-host because you have
00:01:16 --> 00:01:18 such a wealth of knowledge.
00:01:19 --> 00:01:26 I appreciate that. So you've had books you've written on parenting and, you know, other topics.
00:01:26 --> 00:01:30 And this one is a big one for you because it talks about your story.
00:01:30 --> 00:01:34 So what inspired this book and why now?
00:01:35 --> 00:01:40 Well, so the book is called Surviving, Finding Hope After Suicide Loss.
00:01:41 --> 00:01:45 So it's the fourth book I've written, but it's the third book I've written with
00:01:45 --> 00:01:51 my publisher Familius Books out of California, who I just love and adore.
00:01:51 --> 00:01:56 They're like a family. And I can't imagine putting this book out into the world
00:01:56 --> 00:01:57 with anybody else but them.
00:01:58 --> 00:02:02 So the book has been like I
00:02:02 --> 00:02:05 said it's been in progress a work in progress
00:02:05 --> 00:02:09 for the last six years and what it
00:02:09 --> 00:02:14 really is is a way for me to share my story which if you've been listening to
00:02:14 --> 00:02:18 the pod for a while you know that I've lost three people I love to suicide and
00:02:18 --> 00:02:24 I've lost my father was one of them but I have a unique part of my story which
00:02:24 --> 00:02:26 is what the book is built around,
00:02:26 --> 00:02:30 is that when I was 10 years old and I lost my dad the first time,
00:02:31 --> 00:02:34 it was to what I was told was a heart attack. That was the story my mother told me.
00:02:35 --> 00:02:39 That was not the truth. I learned 35 years later that my father had actually
00:02:39 --> 00:02:44 died by suicide and that changed everything, changed my work, my life.
00:02:44 --> 00:02:46 You mentioned I wrote a bunch of parenting books before.
00:02:46 --> 00:02:52 I did. I was a columnist and a parenting author for probably a decade,
00:02:52 --> 00:02:57 writing books about, you know, raising perfectly imperfect kids and work-life
00:02:57 --> 00:03:00 balance and all those things about parenting that we all deal with.
00:03:00 --> 00:03:05 And this just, learning about my dad's suicide, just.
00:03:06 --> 00:03:10 Shut me down. It shut me down. I don't really talk about this often,
00:03:10 --> 00:03:13 but I'll talk about it now because it's relevant.
00:03:13 --> 00:03:17 I did not write for a period of time. It was probably a year or two.
00:03:17 --> 00:03:21 I just completely stopped. And I had been a columnist writing a column every
00:03:21 --> 00:03:27 year and was writing books. And I just, I didn't find the work I was doing anymore
00:03:27 --> 00:03:31 to be totally authentic to where my head was at, at the time, if that makes sense.
00:03:32 --> 00:03:36 Was this after you found out the truth about your dad's death? Yeah, yeah.
00:03:37 --> 00:03:41 That changed everything for me, learning that it was a suicide and really just
00:03:41 --> 00:03:44 completely regrieving his death from the beginning all over again.
00:03:44 --> 00:03:51 I mean, I know any one of us who have experienced loss understands those feelings,
00:03:51 --> 00:03:57 what those initial feelings of grief and loss feel like. I went right back.
00:03:57 --> 00:04:02 My body remembered. My brain and heart remembered. I went right back to that
00:04:02 --> 00:04:07 first day, that first minute of hearing the news that my father had died.
00:04:07 --> 00:04:09 And now all of a sudden, I was a survivor of suicide loss.
00:04:09 --> 00:04:12 And I was married and had my own kids.
00:04:12 --> 00:04:19 And everything felt incredibly surreal and completely out of balance. My whole life just.
00:04:20 --> 00:04:24 Seemed to be off kilter, if that makes sense.
00:04:25 --> 00:04:30 And it was in the first few years before I was telling my kids,
00:04:30 --> 00:04:31 before I was talking about it with anybody.
00:04:31 --> 00:04:35 I mean, I kept that old heart attack narrative going for a few years.
00:04:35 --> 00:04:40 You'd be shocked to know how many people in casual conversation when I talk
00:04:40 --> 00:04:46 about my parents ask me how my father died when I say my dad passed away when I was young.
00:04:47 --> 00:04:53 And I would just revert right back to that heart attack story for a long time.
00:04:53 --> 00:04:57 And then finally, I got to a point where I felt like, no, it's not the story.
00:04:57 --> 00:05:01 It's not the truth. And so I little by little started sharing.
00:05:01 --> 00:05:04 And the more I started sharing, the more it seemed to be helping people because
00:05:04 --> 00:05:08 I had people coming to me, talking to me, saying,
00:05:08 --> 00:05:15 Hearing you talk about something that's considered to be so taboo is really
00:05:15 --> 00:05:17 reassuring that I could talk about it, too.
00:05:17 --> 00:05:19 And it gives me comfort. And I just, little by little by little,
00:05:19 --> 00:05:21 I just started realizing.
00:05:22 --> 00:05:27 That I had power within my own story to not just heal myself by sharing it,
00:05:27 --> 00:05:33 but also to help other people who might be on a different point in,
00:05:33 --> 00:05:35 you know, on that lost journey.
00:05:35 --> 00:05:39 And so I just started working.
00:05:40 --> 00:05:46 I had the title before I had anything, ironically, which is not the title of
00:05:46 --> 00:05:49 the book, but it was the title, the working title for a very long time.
00:05:49 --> 00:05:53 The book was actually going to be called Forgiveness, The Forgiveness.
00:05:54 --> 00:05:57 Because... Tell me about that. Yeah, I've never talked about that.
00:05:57 --> 00:05:59 I've never actually talked about that before anywhere.
00:05:59 --> 00:06:06 But I'm talking about it now because it's actually, it's interesting to me how
00:06:06 --> 00:06:09 the title changed when my belief system around suicide changed.
00:06:09 --> 00:06:13 So in the early years of kind of pulling together ideas for this book,
00:06:14 --> 00:06:19 I was still in a place of feeling like suicide was a very selfish act.
00:06:19 --> 00:06:25 And that's just how I was hardwired. No one taught me. It was just how I perceived suicide.
00:06:25 --> 00:06:30 And then when I found out about my own father, I realized, little by little,
00:06:30 --> 00:06:32 that it's just an illness.
00:06:32 --> 00:06:37 Mental illness is just an illness, like any other illness, like a cancer or heart disease. Yeah.
00:06:38 --> 00:06:42 It needs to be treated. And there's no forgiveness involved.
00:06:42 --> 00:06:46 You would never need to forgive somebody who died in a car crash or had cancer
00:06:46 --> 00:06:49 or had dropped out of a heart attack. There's no forgiveness in that.
00:06:49 --> 00:06:53 Why am I forgiving my father for something that was beyond his control?
00:06:53 --> 00:06:55 He was just trying to stop the pain he was in.
00:06:56 --> 00:07:00 So the title changed back in the early days, in the first year or two,
00:07:00 --> 00:07:02 and it's been surviving ever since.
00:07:03 --> 00:07:09 And look, you know, My story is a little unique because I've lost my dad twice,
00:07:09 --> 00:07:14 but the story itself is only one part of this book. It's a lot of different things.
00:07:15 --> 00:07:19 It's evolved into a lot of different things over the last six years.
00:07:19 --> 00:07:23 It's most definitely a memoir. It talks about losing him the first time and
00:07:23 --> 00:07:28 losing him the second time and what that grief and loss and stigma has been like.
00:07:29 --> 00:07:34 And then it's also a resource guide so that when people are reading it and they
00:07:34 --> 00:07:39 are kind of connecting with it and they do understand that there are platforms
00:07:39 --> 00:07:44 and support groups and organizations that can help you, I want people to have
00:07:44 --> 00:07:45 that right then and there.
00:07:45 --> 00:07:51 So I incorporated a big, big toolkit and resource section into the book.
00:07:51 --> 00:07:58 So it's like a field guide, in a way, that both tells a story and then helps
00:07:58 --> 00:08:04 you navigate the story where it intersects with your own story and your own experience.
00:08:05 --> 00:08:10 And it's been a process. It's so hard to believe that it's out in the world right now.
00:08:12 --> 00:08:14 But what is the best part of this book for you?
00:08:15 --> 00:08:19 No question. Hands down. And I know you know the answer to this.
00:08:19 --> 00:08:24 My mother is woven throughout this entire book.
00:08:24 --> 00:08:26 And that was not always...
00:08:27 --> 00:08:30 The plan. The plan was for me to write this memoir.
00:08:31 --> 00:08:34 And I think part of the reason why it took me so long, it's never taken me this
00:08:34 --> 00:08:37 long to write a book before. It's always been like a year, maybe two years at the most.
00:08:38 --> 00:08:42 And in this process, I really just felt like there was more I needed to be doing
00:08:42 --> 00:08:44 kind of outside of the book writing process.
00:08:44 --> 00:08:47 I needed to go back into therapy for myself, which I did. And I've been in therapy
00:08:47 --> 00:08:50 for four years. And it's the greatest gift I've ever given myself.
00:08:50 --> 00:08:56 And that changed me in ways that is reflected in the book. And then I got on Crisis Lifelines.
00:08:57 --> 00:09:00 I'm a crisis counselor with the Trevor Project. And that completely changed
00:09:00 --> 00:09:07 my perspective on what kind of help people actually need in all the different
00:09:07 --> 00:09:08 communities and spaces in the world,
00:09:08 --> 00:09:13 depending on who you are and what your unique needs are. And so that became part of the book.
00:09:13 --> 00:09:17 And I created a mental health platform called the Help Hub.
00:09:17 --> 00:09:25 That's integrated into the book. And all these tools I learned how to use and help support people.
00:09:25 --> 00:09:30 And so that's all of this stuff became part of the book. What was never supposed
00:09:30 --> 00:09:33 to be part of the book was my mom in any capacity.
00:09:34 --> 00:09:39 And it almost didn't happen. But at the end of the whole writing process,
00:09:39 --> 00:09:43 when it actually went into the editorial phase, where technically speaking,
00:09:44 --> 00:09:47 you're supposed to be done with the book and you're just editing, I had an idea. Yeah.
00:09:48 --> 00:09:54 Enough people were asking me in different ways what my mother's opinions were
00:09:54 --> 00:09:57 of certain things. Why did your mother make that decision?
00:09:57 --> 00:10:00 Or why did your mother keep it for so long? Or was it hard for your mother to...
00:10:01 --> 00:10:07 Hold on to that secret alone. So many different questions that I felt were better answered by my mother.
00:10:07 --> 00:10:12 So I just had an idea one day and pitched it to my mother and then pitched it
00:10:12 --> 00:10:16 to my publisher and said, I want to incorporate her voice.
00:10:16 --> 00:10:18 I want to ask her a question for every chapter.
00:10:18 --> 00:10:21 I want to ask her a question and I want her answers to be in the book.
00:10:21 --> 00:10:27 And my publisher was fully supportive of doing it. My mother was fully on board with doing it.
00:10:27 --> 00:10:33 And we spent a lot of time together kind of going through each chapter and what
00:10:33 --> 00:10:36 her take on those chapters were and integrated it in the book.
00:10:37 --> 00:10:41 And then the even better part is that I'm actually narrating the audiobook.
00:10:42 --> 00:10:48 Which is done. That's also out as well. And I felt like if my voice was the
00:10:48 --> 00:10:53 one telling the story, no one else's voice could be sharing my mother's parts.
00:10:53 --> 00:10:55 It had to be my mother's voice.
00:10:55 --> 00:11:00 So she's in both the printed version, she's also in the audiobook version,
00:11:00 --> 00:11:04 and that is by far the best part of this project for me.
00:11:04 --> 00:11:09 It's like a living tribute to all of us and our story and my dad and And having
00:11:09 --> 00:11:13 my mother so woven into it is just such a gift to me.
00:11:13 --> 00:11:17 And keeping her alive as well.
00:11:18 --> 00:11:21 You know, your mom's 87 years old. Yep, yep.
00:11:21 --> 00:11:27 And, you know, coming from somebody that does not have any recordings or from
00:11:27 --> 00:11:31 certain people, that is an amazing gift to give to yourself.
00:11:31 --> 00:11:33 And I am so glad that you did that.
00:11:33 --> 00:11:37 Yeah, me too. Me too. It's been, and it was such a joy working on it together,
00:11:37 --> 00:11:41 doing that together, recording together. We just had so much fun,
00:11:41 --> 00:11:45 and she just crushed it. She really had never done anything like that before.
00:11:45 --> 00:11:49 And to know my mom, which I know you've gotten to know her, so it's not going
00:11:49 --> 00:11:55 to surprise you to hear that my mother will literally do anything that anyone suggests.
00:11:56 --> 00:12:00 She is all for it, all the time, full steam ahead, let me get in there.
00:12:01 --> 00:12:07 And she just dove right in headfirst, just grabbed the headset and the microphone
00:12:07 --> 00:12:13 and was just so eloquent in the way that she said what she wanted to say.
00:12:13 --> 00:12:18 And as a result, obviously, she's been on our podcast and she's done other podcast
00:12:18 --> 00:12:21 interviews with me as well on other platforms.
00:12:21 --> 00:12:27 And she's become a real advocate as a result of us working on this book together.
00:12:27 --> 00:12:31 And I think at the age of 87 years old, to all of a sudden be able to call yourself
00:12:31 --> 00:12:33 a mental health advocate is a pretty remarkable thing.
00:12:34 --> 00:12:35 So I'm grateful for that.
00:12:37 --> 00:12:41 I wanted to make sure I answered the question that you asked.
00:12:41 --> 00:12:47 About why now. You did ask me that, right? I didn't just dream it.
00:12:47 --> 00:12:53 So, you know, I've had this real sense of urgency to write this book for a long time,
00:12:53 --> 00:13:00 especially since the pandemic and during that period when things were so unstable
00:13:00 --> 00:13:06 and people's lives were so completely upside down, people's mental health was so bad.
00:13:07 --> 00:13:10 And everyone, it was just so volatile. It was such a hard time.
00:13:10 --> 00:13:16 And then obviously, since that time, we've come out of the pandemic, you know, thankfully.
00:13:17 --> 00:13:20 But we've also had some other really tough times.
00:13:20 --> 00:13:31 We've had a lot of political change and challenges insofar as how divided we
00:13:31 --> 00:13:34 all are and the stress that that's created with people.
00:13:34 --> 00:13:37 And people's mental health is not good.
00:13:38 --> 00:13:44 Suicide rates are up, across the board, job losses are up, all these factors,
00:13:44 --> 00:13:49 loneliness, we're in a loneliness epidemic, they all contribute to people's poor mental health.
00:13:49 --> 00:13:54 And this book, while it obviously focuses really, really heavily on being a suicide loss survivor,
00:13:54 --> 00:13:59 there is so much in this book about generalized mental health and about generalized
00:13:59 --> 00:14:05 grief and loss and depression awareness and just tools for your mental health.
00:14:05 --> 00:14:09 And I just felt like we need something.
00:14:10 --> 00:14:16 Everything that we have in terms of resources for our mental health is valuable right now.
00:14:16 --> 00:14:22 Anything that shows us the way or gives us support or validates what we're going
00:14:22 --> 00:14:27 through or something where we can see ourselves in someone else's story or experience,
00:14:27 --> 00:14:30 we can't have enough of that right now, I feel like.
00:14:30 --> 00:14:38 And so I felt like it needed to come out now because people need all the help they can get right now.
00:14:39 --> 00:14:43 Hey, it's Lisa Sugarman, co-host of The Survivors and founder of The Help Hub.
00:14:43 --> 00:14:48 If you're listening right now and you're not okay, if you're feeling overwhelmed,
00:14:48 --> 00:14:52 stuck, or like you're carrying more than you can handle, please know you don't
00:14:52 --> 00:14:53 have to go through it alone.
00:14:54 --> 00:15:01 You can call or text 988 or chat online at 988lifeline.org to connect with trained
00:15:01 --> 00:15:04 counselors like me who are there to listen and support you in the moment.
00:15:05 --> 00:15:08 Reaching out is a brave first step, and you owe it to yourself.
00:15:08 --> 00:15:15 Because your life matters, your story matters, and help is always just three numbers away.
00:15:17 --> 00:15:24 Absolutely. And I, for one, ordered it, pre-ordered it, as soon as it came available on Amazon.
00:15:25 --> 00:15:30 And so I, as someone who has struggled with my mental health for decades,
00:15:30 --> 00:15:35 and obviously having lost five brothers to suicide, I feel like this book is
00:15:35 --> 00:15:38 going to have a tremendous impact on me as well.
00:15:38 --> 00:15:43 So I cannot wait to read it for, personally, for me. I hope so.
00:15:43 --> 00:15:47 I can't wait to hear what you and everybody else think.
00:15:48 --> 00:15:51 It was definitely a journey, writing this book.
00:15:51 --> 00:15:54 And it's so interesting now, talking about it in hindsight with the physical
00:15:54 --> 00:16:01 book is actually here in the world right now, that the act of writing it almost
00:16:01 --> 00:16:03 feels like a fever dream at this point.
00:16:03 --> 00:16:10 You know what I mean? But it was not easy, but it was incredibly cathartic for me.
00:16:10 --> 00:16:15 There were moments where I had to sit down and so many moments where I had to
00:16:15 --> 00:16:22 sit down and be back in my childhood home in the family room,
00:16:23 --> 00:16:28 looking at the silhouette of my dad in the bed downstairs, not knowing he was gone,
00:16:29 --> 00:16:31 feet away from waking him up.
00:16:31 --> 00:16:36 And only to have my mom say, don't disturb him. He was up late. Don't wake him up.
00:16:37 --> 00:16:42 I had to go back to those places, to the funeral, to, you know,
00:16:42 --> 00:16:45 all of what came after and all that pain.
00:16:46 --> 00:16:50 And it's, you know, there were moments that I had to revisit that I hadn't revisited in decades.
00:16:51 --> 00:16:54 And when you go that far back, it's painful.
00:16:54 --> 00:16:58 And you're grieving all over again. And it was a really, really,
00:16:58 --> 00:17:01 really hard experience in so many ways.
00:17:01 --> 00:17:06 But it was also unbelievably cathartic in so many ways, too, to really...
00:17:07 --> 00:17:15 Just kind of be back in that space in a way with such incredible love and appreciation for my dad.
00:17:16 --> 00:17:20 I mean, I've never been angry at my father.
00:17:21 --> 00:17:26 The only thing that was hard for me in all of it was knowing that my mother
00:17:26 --> 00:17:31 had to keep the secret of his suicide to herself and that she didn't get to
00:17:31 --> 00:17:34 fully grieve it the way that she should have.
00:17:34 --> 00:17:37 And I didn't the way I needed to either, But we do that now.
00:17:38 --> 00:17:40 And we've done that through this process.
00:17:41 --> 00:17:47 And that to me has been just such an incredible gift.
00:17:47 --> 00:17:49 We continue to do it every day.
00:17:51 --> 00:17:56 Well, that was actually my next question for you, is how healing has this been
00:17:56 --> 00:17:59 for you and your mother to do this book together, essentially?
00:18:00 --> 00:18:07 Well, I don't know of any other way that we would have arrived at the place that we're at now,
00:18:07 --> 00:18:16 which is a place where I feel like we both have such a healthy perspective on suicide.
00:18:16 --> 00:18:19 And we're not angry about it.
00:18:19 --> 00:18:24 We're not bitter about it. We both understand that it's a symptom of a bigger
00:18:24 --> 00:18:28 problem. It's a consequence of a bigger problem. And.
00:18:29 --> 00:18:34 I, for one, am just like, I'm so grateful that she and I can talk openly about
00:18:34 --> 00:18:35 it. I mean, that was the hardest thing for me.
00:18:35 --> 00:18:40 That was genuinely the hardest thing for me when I found out was thinking about
00:18:40 --> 00:18:48 her being silent and navigating all of those feelings by herself for 35 years.
00:18:48 --> 00:18:52 It was just such an overwhelming realization to me.
00:18:52 --> 00:18:57 And now we get to talk about all these hard feelings. And we have a lot of hard
00:18:57 --> 00:18:59 conversations, a lot of painful and emotional conversations,
00:19:00 --> 00:19:01 even after all these years.
00:19:01 --> 00:19:06 I mean, the truth has come out now. It's been 13 years since the truth has come out.
00:19:06 --> 00:19:15 And we have had, I say it all the time, we have been in one long 13-year conversation, I feel like.
00:19:15 --> 00:19:20 And I don't believe that that conversation will ever end while we're both still here.
00:19:21 --> 00:19:25 And I've been able to understand my dad so much better.
00:19:25 --> 00:19:29 I mean, we don't know what the catalyst was, the ultimate catalyst was for my
00:19:29 --> 00:19:32 dad to take his life. The note that he left was very brief.
00:19:32 --> 00:19:35 I talked about it in the last couple of episodes with my mom.
00:19:35 --> 00:19:38 It really just said, I can't go on and I'm sorry and I love you both.
00:19:38 --> 00:19:46 But my mom and I know that most of what my father's stress resulted from was his family.
00:19:46 --> 00:19:51 His family, they were thankless. They were very money-oriented and...
00:19:52 --> 00:19:56 Wouldn't let him live his life the way he wanted to, and he felt very trapped.
00:19:57 --> 00:20:01 And so we've been able to explore a lot of that, and I've been able to understand
00:20:01 --> 00:20:06 my father a lot more and really know him in a way that I don't think I ever
00:20:06 --> 00:20:08 knew him when he was here.
00:20:09 --> 00:20:13 So to have that kind of relationship and open line of communication with my
00:20:13 --> 00:20:17 mom has just, it made writing the book so much easier.
00:20:17 --> 00:20:23 It made our relationship kind of level up to a new place that I don't think
00:20:23 --> 00:20:25 either one of us could ever have expected.
00:20:25 --> 00:20:28 We have just such an incredible, we've always had such an incredible bond.
00:20:29 --> 00:20:34 And anybody who knows us knows that we have and that we do. But this experience
00:20:34 --> 00:20:36 and sharing this experience together is,
00:20:37 --> 00:20:40 is something very unusual. It's really very unusual.
00:20:40 --> 00:20:44 She's so, oh my God, she's so excited for the book signing this weekend.
00:20:44 --> 00:20:52 We're having a big launch event here in Boston and she's here and she'll be
00:20:52 --> 00:20:55 signing books right alongside me,
00:20:55 --> 00:21:02 which she's so excited about and having conversations with people and just having
00:21:02 --> 00:21:07 her there as kind of a through line through the whole thing has been the most meaningful part for me.
00:21:08 --> 00:21:13 That's amazing. I love that. Yeah. It's, I have to say, it's very refreshing
00:21:13 --> 00:21:19 to see the closeness that you have, not only with your mother,
00:21:20 --> 00:21:20 but with your daughters.
00:21:21 --> 00:21:26 And, you know, I think that's something that we should all strive for,
00:21:26 --> 00:21:31 you know, coming from what I consider to be a very toxic and broken home.
00:21:31 --> 00:21:35 That is definitely something that I strive for with my own children.
00:21:35 --> 00:21:40 And, you know, thank you for being such a wonderful inspiration to those of
00:21:40 --> 00:21:46 us and to just leading this charge of creating a safe space for those of us
00:21:46 --> 00:21:49 that struggle with our mental health and have lost so much.
00:21:49 --> 00:21:55 I mean, I don't think you realize how much you've done and will continue to
00:21:55 --> 00:21:58 do for the mental health space with all your work you're doing.
00:21:59 --> 00:22:03 I appreciate that. I really do. Look, you know, you're out there doing the same thing.
00:22:03 --> 00:22:09 All of us who are out here in this space having the conversations, being vulnerable,
00:22:09 --> 00:22:18 maybe contributing either platforms or material or podcasts or whatever it is that we all do, it's.
00:22:19 --> 00:22:26 It's a community that has rallied around something unlike any other community I have ever seen.
00:22:27 --> 00:22:33 Being a part of this mental health space and seeing how many of us there are out there,
00:22:34 --> 00:22:39 having the conversations, creating the safe spaces, being a support system,
00:22:39 --> 00:22:42 I can't imagine doing anything else with my life.
00:22:42 --> 00:22:46 And I searched for a long time. I've always been a seeker in that way.
00:22:46 --> 00:22:50 I've always been a writer. I've always known that that's what I wanted to do
00:22:50 --> 00:22:52 with my life. And I've written in lots of different spaces.
00:22:53 --> 00:23:01 But ending up here in this space, as a result of my story and my own lived experience,
00:23:01 --> 00:23:05 has made me realize that this is it for me.
00:23:05 --> 00:23:08 This is where I want to be. This is what I want to do.
00:23:09 --> 00:23:14 If any of the work that we all do and the conversations that we all have can
00:23:14 --> 00:23:16 just make it easier for one person.
00:23:16 --> 00:23:20 And I know that's become super cliche to say. Everybody says it, but it's the truth.
00:23:20 --> 00:23:26 Like, that's the end game for me, is maybe it's a mother listening to our podcast
00:23:26 --> 00:23:33 who doesn't know whether or not they should tell their child that their father
00:23:33 --> 00:23:36 or their parent died by suicide.
00:23:36 --> 00:23:42 Maybe it's someone who's having suicidal ideation, not knowing if they should
00:23:42 --> 00:23:47 confess that to someone close to them or call a lifeline.
00:23:47 --> 00:23:55 If what we're all doing can impact even a small number of people who didn't have support before,
00:23:55 --> 00:24:01 then think of how How many of us there are doing all of this kind of work and
00:24:01 --> 00:24:04 that that ripple effect doesn't just come from me.
00:24:04 --> 00:24:11 It comes from from everybody. And I'm just grateful to do what I can do to support it. Yeah.
00:24:11 --> 00:24:16 I appreciate you more. I mean, and I just want you to know that there's going
00:24:16 --> 00:24:20 to be so many people that you have changed their life for the better and you
00:24:20 --> 00:24:21 will never know the number.
00:24:22 --> 00:24:26 I want you to think about that. I do. I appreciate you saying that.
00:24:26 --> 00:24:30 I really do. I mean, I, you know, for those who don't know, I...
00:24:30 --> 00:24:33 I think I mentioned it in this conversation a few minutes ago,
00:24:33 --> 00:24:37 but that I also work on Crisis Lifelines with the Trevor Project.
00:24:37 --> 00:24:40 I'm also a certified 988 crisis counselor.
00:24:40 --> 00:24:46 I'm on the board at Samaritans here in Boston. And I am also one of their suicide
00:24:46 --> 00:24:48 loss grief group facilitators.
00:24:49 --> 00:24:53 So I work in lots of different spaces with lots of different people who are
00:24:53 --> 00:24:56 navigating different kinds of grief, especially suicide grief.
00:24:56 --> 00:25:04 And you never know when the person leaves the group or when the crisis call is over.
00:25:04 --> 00:25:11 You never know what really happens after that in most cases, in almost all cases.
00:25:11 --> 00:25:17 So you never really understand who you're helping. You don't know who you're helping.
00:25:17 --> 00:25:19 And when I write something, I don't know who's reading it. When I record something,
00:25:20 --> 00:25:21 I don't know who's listening to it.
00:25:21 --> 00:25:27 And you can just hope that it's finding its way to the people who need it.
00:25:28 --> 00:25:32 And that's why I do it. I kind of do it with the promise of that.
00:25:33 --> 00:25:36 And I know you do it for the same reason. I mean, everything that you've come
00:25:36 --> 00:25:38 on this podcast to share.
00:25:38 --> 00:25:42 I mean, for people who don't remember back to the beginning of season three,
00:25:42 --> 00:25:43 when you and I started together.
00:25:44 --> 00:25:48 I mean, this podcast has been around now for over a year, and this is our fourth season.
00:25:49 --> 00:25:53 But you and I have only been doing this for two seasons now.
00:25:54 --> 00:26:00 And what people may or may not know is that you came in having had zero podcasting
00:26:00 --> 00:26:04 experience. I think you were on, what, one podcast, maybe, as a guest? Mm-hmm. Yeah.
00:26:05 --> 00:26:09 Which is ironically the person who put you and I together, who said to you,
00:26:09 --> 00:26:11 oh, there's this woman with a podcast you need to meet and said to me,
00:26:11 --> 00:26:13 oh, there's a survivor you need to meet.
00:26:14 --> 00:26:19 But you're out there, too. You just hopped behind the mic when I...
00:26:20 --> 00:26:23 Came to you and said, hey, I think we can do something really special together.
00:26:23 --> 00:26:26 And you were just full steam ahead. Let's go do it.
00:26:26 --> 00:26:31 So I find that most people I meet in this space have that attitude,
00:26:31 --> 00:26:32 like, okay, what can we do?
00:26:33 --> 00:26:40 How much more can we do? What can we do now to change the game for people's mental health?
00:26:40 --> 00:26:46 So I'm just absolutely overjoyed that this book is finally out there in the world.
00:26:46 --> 00:26:52 And I hope it, look, I would love it, not for anything like book sales and things
00:26:52 --> 00:26:54 like that. I've never been a bottom line oriented person like that.
00:26:55 --> 00:26:58 Dave hates it because I would give away the store to everybody.
00:26:59 --> 00:27:01 But so for me, it's not about selling books.
00:27:02 --> 00:27:07 It's about getting the resources and the message into the people's hands who need it the most.
00:27:07 --> 00:27:10 And I just, I hope it finds its way to those people.
00:27:11 --> 00:27:15 Looking for mental health resources that actually fit who you are and where
00:27:15 --> 00:27:18 you come from, then you need to check out the Help Hub.
00:27:18 --> 00:27:23 It's not another generic wellness site. It's a free, inclusive online platform
00:27:23 --> 00:27:26 built for real people living real lives.
00:27:26 --> 00:27:33 People managing stress, anxiety, depression, trauma and abuse, grief or suicide loss.
00:27:33 --> 00:27:37 At the Help Hub, you'll find the resources, tools, treatment options,
00:27:38 --> 00:27:42 and trauma-informed content you need in the moment without having to dig through
00:27:42 --> 00:27:44 endless tabs or start from scratch.
00:27:44 --> 00:27:50 It's your place to land, to take a breath, and to find exactly what you need when you need it most.
00:27:51 --> 00:27:55 Visit thehelphub.co where the help you need is just a click away.
00:28:01 --> 00:28:01 I agree.
00:28:02 --> 00:28:06 That's all we can hope for, being in this realm.
00:28:06 --> 00:28:11 You know, if we had even a fraction of the traction that all the silly things
00:28:11 --> 00:28:14 out there get, I think we could make a bigger difference.
00:28:14 --> 00:28:19 You know, if I take that as my mission or we together take that as our mission
00:28:19 --> 00:28:23 is we get as much information regarding this realm,
00:28:23 --> 00:28:29 mental health and all that out there to as many people as we possibly can and
00:28:29 --> 00:28:31 partnering with different people.
00:28:31 --> 00:28:34 I mean, you just, you can't have enough awareness out there.
00:28:35 --> 00:28:40 You know, there's so many things out there that I feel like don't really serve a purpose.
00:28:40 --> 00:28:45 But this is one of the main things that if we, the more traction and the more
00:28:45 --> 00:28:51 people that we can get this information out there to, the more people it's going to positively affect.
00:28:51 --> 00:28:55 And this is absolutely not a vanity thing. This is about saving lives.
00:28:55 --> 00:28:59 Oh, that's 100%. I mean, this is about, this book is about, to me,
00:29:00 --> 00:29:05 you about what happens after the worst thing happens and how to move forward
00:29:05 --> 00:29:08 and how to find hope and how to live with that.
00:29:08 --> 00:29:12 You know, it's about how to carry something that is never, ever,
00:29:12 --> 00:29:16 ever going to go away and still find a way to live at the same time that you're
00:29:16 --> 00:29:19 always going to be navigating grief.
00:29:19 --> 00:29:23 Yeah. So I, you know, and I was hard on myself for a really long time.
00:29:23 --> 00:29:26 I've never really talked about this before, but I was really hard on myself
00:29:26 --> 00:29:29 for a very long time for not writing this book faster.
00:29:30 --> 00:29:34 And I had these internal signals that kept saying, no, no, no,
00:29:35 --> 00:29:36 you need to be on lifelines for a little while.
00:29:36 --> 00:29:41 No, no, no, you need to be in therapy again to really just dig through so much
00:29:41 --> 00:29:43 of this and understand your own grief better.
00:29:43 --> 00:29:46 And there were things that I felt like I needed to do first.
00:29:47 --> 00:29:53 And then once I kind of, I don't want to say check those things off.
00:29:53 --> 00:29:56 But I did check those things off to a point.
00:29:57 --> 00:30:03 Then it was like I dove in and never looked back and just swam right through
00:30:03 --> 00:30:05 it. And I'm grateful for that.
00:30:05 --> 00:30:09 Because I think it's a better book because it took longer, even though I was
00:30:09 --> 00:30:11 really hard on myself because it took longer.
00:30:12 --> 00:30:16 You know, now it's got so many pieces and parts in it that it would never have
00:30:16 --> 00:30:18 had if I had written it six years ago.
00:30:18 --> 00:30:21 And, you know, I mean, like I said earlier, it's part memoir,
00:30:21 --> 00:30:24 it's part resource guide, it's part toolkit.
00:30:25 --> 00:30:30 You know, it walks readers through my own lived experience of losing my dad
00:30:30 --> 00:30:32 and losing other family members and friends,
00:30:33 --> 00:30:39 you know but it's also you can almost read any chapter in this book as a standalone
00:30:39 --> 00:30:44 chapter regardless of you know what your experience is I mean aside from the
00:30:44 --> 00:30:46 first couple of chapters which really kind of set the stage,
00:30:47 --> 00:30:51 everything explores something very different about the grief experience you
00:30:51 --> 00:30:56 know some chapters talk about shame and then guilt and then identity and and.
00:30:58 --> 00:31:05 I'm just I'm grateful that it ended up taking the shape Because I think it definitely
00:31:05 --> 00:31:09 has the potential to be an important resource for people.
00:31:10 --> 00:31:13 Okay. I agree. So if you could...
00:31:14 --> 00:31:19 As we close up this episode, what's one message or, you know,
00:31:19 --> 00:31:23 your message to people out there that may be listening and are,
00:31:23 --> 00:31:26 you know, maybe considering buying your book or not considering?
00:31:27 --> 00:31:30 What's just a message you'd like for people to know as we close this episode?
00:31:30 --> 00:31:38 Well, I certainly would hope that if anyone has experienced suicide loss or knows someone who has,
00:31:38 --> 00:31:45 that they would consider getting the book into their hands or a friend's hands,
00:31:45 --> 00:31:51 because the more we can see ourselves in other people's experiences and see
00:31:51 --> 00:31:55 how other people have navigated and survived these kinds of experiences,
00:31:55 --> 00:32:02 is the better off we're going to be as we try to manage our own grief and loss.
00:32:02 --> 00:32:06 So I really, I do hope that people can find their way to the book.
00:32:06 --> 00:32:12 I think overall as a message, I would just say that the way that you're feeling right now,
00:32:12 --> 00:32:15 especially if you're listening to this conversation and you're someone who is
00:32:15 --> 00:32:20 actively grieving someone that you've just lost and you don't know what to do,
00:32:20 --> 00:32:24 and these feelings are so hard and so overwhelming and so never-ending,
00:32:24 --> 00:32:30 grieving the way that you feel right now is not going to be the way you always feel.
00:32:31 --> 00:32:34 It changes. You're never going to stop grieving. I'm not going to say you are
00:32:34 --> 00:32:38 going to because you won't ever stop grieving, but you'll be able to navigate it better.
00:32:38 --> 00:32:40 You'll be able to, like you and I have talked so much about,
00:32:40 --> 00:32:46 you'll be able to kind of walk with that grief side by side and you'll be able
00:32:46 --> 00:32:52 to find hope and you'll be able to keep moving on and living your life with
00:32:52 --> 00:32:56 a different relationship with the person that you've lost. But it takes time.
00:32:56 --> 00:33:00 It takes time. And this book is only one resource.
00:33:01 --> 00:33:06 There are so many resources and platforms and tools that are out there to help.
00:33:06 --> 00:33:11 And I'm just excited to add something to the bigger global toolbox.
00:33:12 --> 00:33:17 Thank you so much, Lisa, for all you do and continuing to show up.
00:33:17 --> 00:33:20 And I'm just so very grateful for you walking this journey with you.
00:33:20 --> 00:33:25 And I hope everybody out there just knows how amazing you are and how incredibly special you are.
00:33:25 --> 00:33:28 And this world is definitely a much better place with you in it.
00:33:29 --> 00:33:33 Well, I appreciate that. I really appreciate that. And I love you and could
00:33:33 --> 00:33:34 say the very same things about you.
00:33:35 --> 00:33:40 I am going to give a shameless plug before this episode is fully over and say
00:33:40 --> 00:33:47 that we are doing a very big launch event in my hometown, which is just a little bit north of Boston.
00:33:47 --> 00:33:52 It's going to be this Saturday, May 2nd, from two to three o'clock at Shoeby's
00:33:52 --> 00:33:57 Marketplace in my good old hometown of Marblehead, Massachusetts, right by the water.
00:33:57 --> 00:34:01 My mother is going to be the special VIP. Nobody's coming to see me.
00:34:01 --> 00:34:04 They're only coming because they want my mom to hug them and sign their books.
00:34:04 --> 00:34:06 It's not about me. It's all about her.
00:34:06 --> 00:34:12 So if you're in the area and you can come by and you can be part of the conversation
00:34:12 --> 00:34:20 and grab a book and just be an ally in this movement, that would be amazing.
00:34:20 --> 00:34:25 We'd love to pack the place and get the book out there in as many hands as we
00:34:25 --> 00:34:28 can. So if you're around, we'd love to see you.
00:34:29 --> 00:34:35 Sounds good. I wish I could be there. I know, I know Virginia is just a wee
00:34:35 --> 00:34:40 bit far for you to hop in the car, but I know you want to be there and I love
00:34:40 --> 00:34:42 and appreciate that. I really, really do.
00:34:43 --> 00:34:46 You'll be there in spirit. I promise. Yes, I will. Absolutely.
00:34:46 --> 00:34:51 So if you're around and in person and you can come on down, get some books,
00:34:52 --> 00:34:57 grab some hugs, all the info for the book signing will be in the show notes for sure.
00:34:58 --> 00:35:01 And you can find it on all of our socials. But in the meantime,
00:35:02 --> 00:35:05 whether we see you or not, just please keep surviving, okay?
00:35:05 --> 00:35:07 We will if you will. Have a good one.
00:35:08 --> 00:35:12 Thanks so much for listening and for being part of the Survivors community.
00:35:13 --> 00:35:17 No matter where you are in your story, you're not alone, and you're definitely not broken.
00:35:18 --> 00:35:22 Healing takes time, and it looks different for everyone. The fact that you're
00:35:22 --> 00:35:25 still here, and still trying, means you're already doing the hard work.
00:35:26 --> 00:35:30 If something in today's conversation resonated with you, please share it with
00:35:30 --> 00:35:31 someone who might need to hear it too.
00:35:32 --> 00:35:37 That's how we keep these conversations going, and remind each other that there's always hope.
00:35:37 --> 00:35:40 And if you or someone you know is struggling, please remember,
00:35:40 --> 00:35:45 help is always out there. You can call or text 988 anytime to reach a trained
00:35:45 --> 00:35:46 crisis counselor like me.
00:35:46 --> 00:35:50 And for more mental health resources, tools, treatment options,
00:35:50 --> 00:35:54 and content to support your mental health, visit thehelphub.co.
00:35:54 --> 00:35:58 We're so grateful you're part of the Survivors family, and we'll be back next
00:35:58 --> 00:36:01 week with another honest conversation about life after the hardest things.
00:36:02 --> 00:36:06 Until then, take care of yourself and your people, and keep surviving.