*WARNING: This podcast mentions suicide, sexual abuse & trauma and may be triggering.
Episode Summary
In this episode, Lisa and Natasha sit down for one of the most honest and emotionally layered conversations of the season as they explore what it really means to survive childhood sexual abuse. Natasha opens up about her experience as a survivor of childhood abuse — how it shaped her sense of safety, her nervous system, and her understanding of herself. She talks about the silence she carried for years, the moments that broke her open, and the slow, nonlinear path she’s walked toward reclaiming her life.
Together, Lisa and Natasha unpack the realities survivors face long after the abuse ends: learning how to trust again, rebuilding relationships, navigating triggers, and understanding that healing doesn’t follow a timeline. They talk about the power of speaking your truth, even when your voice shakes, and the importance of creating a world where survivors are believed without having to offer the graphic details of their trauma.
This conversation reminds listeners that surviving domestic abuse isn't a single moment — it’s an ongoing process of reclaiming your voice, your body, and your power. And no survivor ever has to walk that journey alone.
🎙️ Episode Sponsored by The HelpHUB™
Struggling with your mental health? Feeling lost, overwhelmed, or just alone? Well, you're not. Welcome to The HelpHUB™—your online destination for mental health resources, treatment options, content, and tools to help meet you exactly where you are in the moment. Visit TheHelpHUB.co to get started.
Takeaways
- Survivors have the autonomy to share their stories on their own terms.
- The impact of childhood trauma can manifest in various ways throughout life.
- Healing is a daily choice and can take many forms.
- Community support is crucial for survivors of abuse.
- It's important to listen to your body and its signals during the healing process.
- Therapy can play a significant role in processing trauma and its effects.
- Survivors should seek help from those who will listen and support them.
- Reclaiming one's voice is a powerful step in the healing journey.
- Healing isn't linear and can involve ups and downs.
- Hypersexualization can be a coping mechanism for those who have experienced sexual trauma.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Hard Conversations 02:50 The Impact of Early Trauma 07:43 Navigating the Aftermath of Abuse 12:22 The Journey of Healing 21:35 Reclaiming Power and Voice 28:47 Final Thoughts on Healing and Community
Mental Health Resources
- If you or someone you know is struggling, please call 988 for help.
- The Survivors Podcast Website – https://thesurvivors.net/
- The HelpHUB™ – Mental health resources, tools, and support networks – https://www.thehelphub.co/
- National Domestic Violence Hotline – Call 1-800-799-SAFE (7223)
Follow & Connect With Us
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See you next week! In the meantime, keep surviving.
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00:00:00 --> 00:00:04 Hey friends, before we dive into this week's episode, just a heads up.
00:00:04 --> 00:00:08 Our podcast talks about suicide, sexual abuse, and other trauma,
00:00:09 --> 00:00:12 and some of what you hear may be triggering. So please listen with care.
00:00:13 --> 00:00:18 This is The Survivors, real stories, raw conversations, and the truth about
00:00:18 --> 00:00:21 what it means to keep going after the hardest things.
00:00:21 --> 00:00:24 We're so glad you're here. Let's keep surviving together.
00:00:28 --> 00:00:34 Welcome back to The Survivors. It's another week, so it's another conversation. Back with Natasha.
00:00:35 --> 00:00:39 Today we're going to have another hard conversation.
00:00:40 --> 00:00:44 I know it's hard conversation after hard conversation, but we're here to have
00:00:44 --> 00:00:45 them and we're doing it together.
00:00:46 --> 00:00:53 And this one is one that we have not had on this show before in all of the seasons past.
00:00:53 --> 00:00:56 This is a show about sexual abuse.
00:00:57 --> 00:01:02 And this is not something that I have any experience with myself personally,
00:01:02 --> 00:01:04 but Natasha, I know that you do.
00:01:04 --> 00:01:09 And we talk a lot about surviving all different things on this podcast,
00:01:09 --> 00:01:16 not in a documentary kind of sense, but through just the voice of people who have survived it.
00:01:16 --> 00:01:22 And Natasha, before we start and talk about this aspect of your story,
00:01:22 --> 00:01:23 I just want to say something really clearly.
00:01:24 --> 00:01:30 Survivors do not owe the world a graphic version of their trauma.
00:01:30 --> 00:01:32 You don't, to be believed. You just don't.
00:01:33 --> 00:01:38 You're sharing what you decide to share from a place of your own autonomy and
00:01:38 --> 00:01:41 power, and that in and of itself is an act of survival.
00:01:41 --> 00:01:46 So I just want to throw that out there and make that statement before we even
00:01:46 --> 00:01:52 get into this conversation. So, if you're a survivor and you're listening, you are in control.
00:01:53 --> 00:01:55 You might not feel it, but you are in control. You can pause,
00:01:55 --> 00:02:01 you can skip, you can come back later. If this conversation is tough for you,
00:02:01 --> 00:02:06 you can stop it altogether. We're not going anywhere. We'll always be here.
00:02:06 --> 00:02:10 Your nervous system and what's going on on the inside is way more important
00:02:10 --> 00:02:11 than finishing an episode.
00:02:12 --> 00:02:18 So, Nosh, I want to start this the way I think we should start it.
00:02:19 --> 00:02:22 Are you ready to talk about this? Okay. So...
00:02:23 --> 00:02:27 I want to start before your abuse. Just a lot of the times when we talk about
00:02:27 --> 00:02:31 sexual trauma, I think people jump straight to the event.
00:02:31 --> 00:02:36 But I feel like people should know a little bit about what happened before.
00:02:36 --> 00:02:38 I know you've talked about it in past episodes.
00:02:38 --> 00:02:42 So maybe just give people kind of the when this happened, how old you were when
00:02:42 --> 00:02:51 this happened, who your abuser was, and maybe just talk about like what did silence feel like,
00:02:51 --> 00:02:54 about this when it did come out.
00:02:54 --> 00:02:59 I know it didn't. It happened at one point in your life and it came out much, much later.
00:02:59 --> 00:03:03 So I guess just lay a little bit of the groundwork. We can keep that part of it quick.
00:03:04 --> 00:03:08 And then you can just kind of talk about the after effects.
00:03:09 --> 00:03:13 So the initial abuse happened between the ages of three and four.
00:03:13 --> 00:03:17 My abuser was my older brother, Marcus. He's nine years older than I am.
00:03:18 --> 00:03:24 So he was old enough to know better. And he lured me up into his room and touched me inappropriately.
00:03:25 --> 00:03:30 And it happened multiple times. I don't know exactly how many times.
00:03:30 --> 00:03:32 I just know that it happened multiple times.
00:03:32 --> 00:03:38 And I do remember I adored him as a young child. I spent so much time with him.
00:03:40 --> 00:03:44 That's the hard part, is looking back and realizing that I loved and adored him.
00:03:45 --> 00:03:48 And I remember he would let me comb his hair.
00:03:48 --> 00:03:52 It was just this weird thing that we did as kids. We would comb our siblings'
00:03:53 --> 00:03:59 hair and we would hang out and watch movies. We were a very loving and affectionate
00:03:59 --> 00:04:02 family, very close with each other.
00:04:02 --> 00:04:09 And so it was a mixture of there was this love and this adoration for him.
00:04:09 --> 00:04:13 And then when I started having the flashbacks at at 14,
00:04:14 --> 00:04:16 It completely shifted my perspective
00:04:16 --> 00:04:21 of, wait a minute, did he actually love me or was he grooming me?
00:04:23 --> 00:04:27 And I knew instinctively when I started having the flashbacks,
00:04:27 --> 00:04:30 I remember knowing that I was not allowed to talk about this.
00:04:31 --> 00:04:34 How a three or four year old knew that, but I knew that this was not something
00:04:34 --> 00:04:36 that I was allowed to talk about.
00:04:36 --> 00:04:41 Instinct is an interesting thing, isn't it? Mm-hmm. You just have that fear
00:04:41 --> 00:04:46 hardwired into you, I think, that if I say something, either I'm in trouble
00:04:46 --> 00:04:50 because I said it, or people are going to think I'm lying because I'm so little.
00:04:51 --> 00:04:55 It's hard to understand where that comes from, but it just comes, I guess, right?
00:04:55 --> 00:05:01 Well, and it does. And the shame part of it comes in, did I ask for it?
00:05:02 --> 00:05:07 Did I do something to present myself in a way that made me ask for it?
00:05:08 --> 00:05:12 You know, a lot of retrospect and things like that. There's no way that a child
00:05:12 --> 00:05:14 could ask for that kind of treatment.
00:05:15 --> 00:05:21 And so when I was having the flashbacks, it came with so much guilt and shame
00:05:21 --> 00:05:26 and not believing that it was real, grappling with, am I making this up?
00:05:26 --> 00:05:34 But then the flash, it just kept coming, like vivid dreams, but that would shake me to the core.
00:05:34 --> 00:05:42 And I just was so out of touch with my body and there's so much of my childhood
00:05:42 --> 00:05:48 I don't remember because it was built in locking these memories away and not
00:05:48 --> 00:05:53 being able to process it and then that coupled with the.
00:05:54 --> 00:06:00 Being so brutally treated by my other siblings not sexually abused but just
00:06:00 --> 00:06:01 they were brutal they were mean.
00:06:01 --> 00:06:06 There was a lot of bullying that happened, and I just, I don't remember a lot
00:06:06 --> 00:06:09 of my childhood, and it's really quite sad.
00:06:09 --> 00:06:14 And so I just learned that just to be quiet and to just deal with it.
00:06:14 --> 00:06:19 Well, I mean, we're not talking about your average everyday Brady Bunch family here.
00:06:19 --> 00:06:23 We're talking about, there were 20 of you in your family.
00:06:24 --> 00:06:27 There were three mothers.
00:06:27 --> 00:06:34 You come from the FLDS polygamy cult led by Warren Jeffs. He's your uncle.
00:06:35 --> 00:06:42 You did not live what most people would consider to be your average ordinary childhood.
00:06:42 --> 00:06:50 You have 20 siblings. You're living an extremely restricted lifestyle.
00:06:51 --> 00:06:57 And you're also now being subjected to, we've talked in previous episodes about
00:06:57 --> 00:07:03 the physical abuse that you were subjected to, the emotional abuse,
00:07:03 --> 00:07:06 now sexual abuse, and...
00:07:07 --> 00:07:13 To be in an environment where you were not allowed to show that anything was
00:07:13 --> 00:07:18 less than perfect in the community that you lived in. You were not allowed to show that.
00:07:18 --> 00:07:25 So you add all of those layers onto your story, and it's an absolute miracle
00:07:25 --> 00:07:27 that you're sitting here having this conversation with me.
00:07:28 --> 00:07:33 Yeah. I genuinely, looking back in my journals, because I started journaling
00:07:33 --> 00:07:36 around the ages of 11 or 12, I don't know how I survived.
00:07:36 --> 00:07:42 I truly, honestly don't, other than I was absolutely in a state of survival.
00:07:43 --> 00:07:49 And it was just get through each day the best I could, and hope that I could
00:07:49 --> 00:07:52 have the strength to do it again the next day.
00:07:52 --> 00:08:00 Yeah, yeah. So in the past couple of episodes where we've really gone deep into
00:08:00 --> 00:08:03 your story, because your story extends, unfortunately,
00:08:04 --> 00:08:07 way beyond sexual abuse and domestic abuse.
00:08:07 --> 00:08:12 It also extends to your own suicide attempts, multiple suicide attempts,
00:08:12 --> 00:08:15 and losing five brothers from your family to suicide.
00:08:16 --> 00:08:23 So there's a lot going on in your history. But today we're talking about the sexual abuse part.
00:08:24 --> 00:08:31 And I know just it gets worth saying that you said it was your older brother. He's nine years older.
00:08:31 --> 00:08:37 He was confronted about it. Once you finally, years later, opened up and shared
00:08:37 --> 00:08:40 it with your parents, he did admit to it.
00:08:41 --> 00:08:46 So that, you know, it was not that you would ever need any kind of validation
00:08:46 --> 00:08:48 from anyone that this happened to you.
00:08:48 --> 00:08:53 You know what happened to you, but he did admit that he did this to you. Yeah.
00:08:54 --> 00:08:59 When all that came out and the apology, if we're calling it an apology,
00:08:59 --> 00:09:02 I know he wrote you a letter and he wrote your mother a letter,
00:09:02 --> 00:09:07 but now that's got you as a teenager.
00:09:07 --> 00:09:11 You were, what, 16, 17 at that point when all of that was happening?
00:09:11 --> 00:09:17 When I told my parents I was, I want to say 15, 16, somewhere in there.
00:09:17 --> 00:09:21 Okay, okay. So you were pretty firmly a teenager at that point.
00:09:21 --> 00:09:28 You were definitely dealing with very adult issues, trying to navigate them
00:09:28 --> 00:09:31 mostly by yourself, unfortunately, because you didn't end up getting a lot of
00:09:31 --> 00:09:32 support from your family.
00:09:33 --> 00:09:38 So looking back, I want to dive into, if you're feeling comfortable talking
00:09:38 --> 00:09:41 about it, what did that abuse teach your body?
00:09:41 --> 00:09:45 I know it might seem like a weird question, but what did that hardwire into
00:09:45 --> 00:09:50 you, into your nervous system, things about safety and touch and trust?
00:09:50 --> 00:09:56 So where did it go inside you when you dealt with all that so much later?
00:09:57 --> 00:10:01 Well, the interesting thing is, is in therapy, when I finally started going
00:10:01 --> 00:10:04 to therapy at 18, I think, when I talked to my therapist about it,
00:10:04 --> 00:10:07 because I used to do like play therapy with my dolls, my Barbies,
00:10:08 --> 00:10:10 and I was literally doing play therapy on my own.
00:10:10 --> 00:10:15 And he said the sexual side of my brain got woken up, obviously,
00:10:15 --> 00:10:21 at too young. And so, I was doing things to cope with that, unbeknownst to my brain.
00:10:21 --> 00:10:26 My sister said that I would make some weird comments, like we'd be watching
00:10:26 --> 00:10:31 a movie and some would kiss, you know, on screen, just a kiss.
00:10:31 --> 00:10:35 And I was six, and I said, oh, that makes my privates tickle.
00:10:35 --> 00:10:42 Okay okay yeah and so it was just this whole sexual side of my brain that was
00:10:42 --> 00:10:47 awake but i didn't know it was awake and and it was just the weirdest thing
00:10:47 --> 00:10:53 i was boy crazy at a very young age after i had my first kiss it was just.
00:10:54 --> 00:10:58 When you experience sexual trauma, you go one of two ways. You become hyper-sexualized
00:10:58 --> 00:11:02 or you want nothing to do with it. I went to hyper-sexualized mode.
00:11:03 --> 00:11:09 And it became a source of power for me. And I went on to have a series of very
00:11:09 --> 00:11:13 inappropriate relationships. I didn't start dating until I was 18 because I
00:11:13 --> 00:11:14 was attracted to older men.
00:11:15 --> 00:11:19 And I went on to have a series of inappropriate relationships with men that
00:11:19 --> 00:11:20 were old enough to be my father.
00:11:20 --> 00:11:26 It was just, it was rough dealing with that. And realizing what I was doing
00:11:26 --> 00:11:31 was only hurting myself, but I didn't care because in those moments it gave me a source of power.
00:11:31 --> 00:11:34 And I would always feel bros afterwards.
00:11:34 --> 00:11:37 And I began to hate my body.
00:11:38 --> 00:11:43 I really loathed myself in my late teens and early 20s.
00:11:43 --> 00:11:47 And I didn't trust myself.
00:11:47 --> 00:11:53 It was almost like my drug of choice. Sex became my drug of choice. and that,
00:11:54 --> 00:11:58 I didn't dive into drugs or alcohol. I mean, I used them, but I didn't abuse
00:11:58 --> 00:12:04 it like some of my siblings used as a coping mechanism. My choice of drug was sex. Okay.
00:12:05 --> 00:12:11 And it just taught my body that that was the only way to deal with it.
00:12:12 --> 00:12:16 Because when you're abused at such a young age, you lose your power.
00:12:17 --> 00:12:21 And doing anything I possibly could to try and regain some of that power.
00:12:22 --> 00:12:27 And it I just went down a destructive path for a number of years just trying
00:12:27 --> 00:12:34 to deal with it and cope with it and in and out of therapy and dealing with my suicide attempts and,
00:12:35 --> 00:12:40 talking to some people about it but not really I was just so ashamed really
00:12:40 --> 00:12:45 there's a lot of shame that is involved in that and how did I bring this into
00:12:45 --> 00:12:47 my life and what did I do to deserve this I I mean,
00:12:47 --> 00:12:51 I'm 40 years old and still dealing with the ramifications of this.
00:12:52 --> 00:12:57 Can I ask you a question? How did you rewire your brain?
00:12:57 --> 00:13:02 Like, how did you move from a place of that? Was it therapy?
00:13:02 --> 00:13:05 Was it your relationship with your now husband?
00:13:05 --> 00:13:13 Like, where did the shift come from that took you from that person to this person?
00:13:14 --> 00:13:17 I think a lot of it was with George, my husband.
00:13:18 --> 00:13:20 The first five years of our relationship was pretty rough.
00:13:22 --> 00:13:26 Just back and forth, breaking up, getting back together. But when he finally
00:13:26 --> 00:13:29 decided to commit to being in a relationship with me, and I told him,
00:13:29 --> 00:13:33 look, we're going to commit to this relationship. We're going to give it a go
00:13:33 --> 00:13:35 because I'm not doing this back and forth anymore.
00:13:35 --> 00:13:40 And at that point, when he fully committed to our relationship and I finally felt safe,
00:13:41 --> 00:13:45 and I knew that he wasn't going anywhere, it really allowed me to settle into
00:13:45 --> 00:13:50 a space of calm, just knowing that somebody had my back, because I didn't feel like that.
00:13:51 --> 00:13:54 For my whole life, I never felt like anybody had my back, not my siblings,
00:13:55 --> 00:13:58 not my parents, because anytime I showed any kind of weakness,
00:13:58 --> 00:14:03 I was just abandoned by my parents, by my siblings, everyone I knew.
00:14:03 --> 00:14:08 I just, I did not have a safe place to be until George.
00:14:08 --> 00:14:12 And he has continued to show up for me and be there for me.
00:14:12 --> 00:14:18 And I cannot tell you how many times I have just cried to him and he just holds
00:14:18 --> 00:14:21 me and he lets me be. He doesn't try to make it feel better.
00:14:21 --> 00:14:26 He just is there. He's present with me. So when I say that I wouldn't be here
00:14:26 --> 00:14:29 without him, he is truly my safe place.
00:14:30 --> 00:14:33 Like just being in his presence calms me down.
00:14:34 --> 00:14:37 Is that codependency? I don't know. I don't really care.
00:14:38 --> 00:14:44 I'm sorry, but I've been with my husband, Dave, now, it'll be 33 years that
00:14:44 --> 00:14:49 we've been married in the spring and 40 years that we've been together.
00:14:49 --> 00:14:55 And I will be the first one to sit here and say, I am for sure codependent on
00:14:55 --> 00:14:56 him and he is codependent on me.
00:14:57 --> 00:15:01 I'm my own individual person and he is his own individual person,
00:15:01 --> 00:15:04 but that's kind of what I signed up for.
00:15:04 --> 00:15:11 Like, that's what I wanted was to also have us be a unit.
00:15:11 --> 00:15:16 And so there has to be a natural codependency in that way, I think.
00:15:16 --> 00:15:22 It's whatever works for each relationship, but I would definitely say that there's
00:15:22 --> 00:15:25 codependency in my relationship, without a doubt.
00:15:25 --> 00:15:29 So, okay, so now you're at a point where,
00:15:29 --> 00:15:35 You've told the truth. You had this abuse happen to you when you were so young
00:15:35 --> 00:15:39 that you didn't know what was happening. You were completely victimized.
00:15:39 --> 00:15:41 I mean, anyone is a victim at any age, no matter what. But I mean,
00:15:42 --> 00:15:46 you take a child, a toddler, who is being sexually abused.
00:15:46 --> 00:15:51 And that, I think, is probably putting it in an ultimate victim category.
00:15:52 --> 00:15:55 So you didn't know what was going on with you then things
00:15:55 --> 00:15:59 surfaced later as you were in your mid-teens and
00:15:59 --> 00:16:02 then you went ahead and you you told your family
00:16:02 --> 00:16:06 what was happening let's talk about the cost of that
00:16:06 --> 00:16:09 for a second the cost of telling and not telling because you
00:16:09 --> 00:16:13 didn't tell what was going on for a long time so if there are people who are
00:16:13 --> 00:16:17 listening to this conversation right now and they are the ones who are navigating
00:16:17 --> 00:16:22 the early stages of what you've already gone through like this horrible thing
00:16:22 --> 00:16:25 has happened to them or maybe it's continuing to happen to them and they have
00:16:25 --> 00:16:28 not talked about it, have not reached out, have not shared.
00:16:29 --> 00:16:35 Let's give them some guidance just from your own experience on how to do that.
00:16:35 --> 00:16:40 Like what was the price of telling and what was the price of staying silent?
00:16:40 --> 00:16:44 Looking for mental health resources that actually suit your unique needs and
00:16:44 --> 00:16:46 the community you come from?
00:16:46 --> 00:16:50 Then you need to check out the Help Hub, the most inclusive free online platform
00:16:50 --> 00:16:54 filled with the mental health resources, tools, treatment options,
00:16:54 --> 00:16:58 and trauma informed content to help you navigate whatever mental health challenge
00:16:58 --> 00:16:59 you're facing in the moment.
00:17:00 --> 00:17:03 Whether you're managing stress, anxiety and depression,
00:17:03 --> 00:17:09 abuse, grief, suicide loss, or surviving trauma, the Help Hub gives you a place
00:17:09 --> 00:17:14 to land, explore, and find exactly the help you need when you need it most without
00:17:14 --> 00:17:18 having to start from scratch. Visit thehelphub.co.
00:17:19 --> 00:17:20 Thank you.
00:17:25 --> 00:17:29 The price of seeing, which I did, the first person I told, and when I had my
00:17:29 --> 00:17:34 first flashback, I was on the phone, just doing normal teenager things,
00:17:34 --> 00:17:37 talking to a boy that I liked, is when I had my very first flashback.
00:17:37 --> 00:17:41 And he's ultimately the first person I told. And he was, I was 14,
00:17:41 --> 00:17:43 he was 15, he didn't know what to do.
00:17:43 --> 00:17:48 But and he's like, oh my gosh You need to tell your parents You need to tell
00:17:48 --> 00:17:51 your parents And I saw, you know, we ended the conversation I was crying I saw
00:17:51 --> 00:17:53 him the next day at school And he was very sweet,
00:17:55 --> 00:17:59 And I just ultimately kept silent Because the flashbacks kept coming And I,
00:17:59 --> 00:18:04 again, I did not want to believe it was real How could this person that I love
00:18:04 --> 00:18:06 and adore Do this thing to me?
00:18:07 --> 00:18:10 And it eventually started to eat me alive From the inside out.
00:18:11 --> 00:18:16 I just wanted that pain, that darkness to end. Can I ask a question?
00:18:17 --> 00:18:20 Was it the parts of it? I'm sure the answer is yes to both questions.
00:18:21 --> 00:18:25 But the parts of it that were eating you were alive, was it the disbelief that
00:18:25 --> 00:18:28 your brother could be the person doing this to you?
00:18:28 --> 00:18:32 Or was it the uncertainty of whether or not this thing actually happened?
00:18:33 --> 00:18:34 Because you were so little. Okay, so it's both.
00:18:35 --> 00:18:39 Definitely both. I didn't want to believe it was real. First and foremost.
00:18:39 --> 00:18:43 I did not want to believe it was real because he was the golden child.
00:18:44 --> 00:18:46 He was, you know, there's a couple of children in our family that are considered,
00:18:46 --> 00:18:50 quote unquote, the golden children and could do no wrong. And he was one of them.
00:18:50 --> 00:18:55 And so, yeah, it was definitely grappling with both those ideas.
00:18:55 --> 00:18:58 Do you remember what it was that crystallized?
00:18:58 --> 00:19:02 You said it was in a moment when you were talking to that boy you liked on the
00:19:02 --> 00:19:06 phone where things started to kind of flood into your brain about what had happened.
00:19:07 --> 00:19:14 Was there something that crystallized in your mind that said this was real?
00:19:15 --> 00:19:18 Like when you crossed over from that place of being ambivalent,
00:19:19 --> 00:19:22 wondering, questioning, to this place of no, no, no, this thing happened.
00:19:23 --> 00:19:28 What was it? Do you remember? When I would think about it, my body would shake.
00:19:29 --> 00:19:35 And that is the ultimate, your nervous system trying to cope with what has happened.
00:19:35 --> 00:19:42 And still to this day, as we're talking about it, I shake. I get a knot in my stomach.
00:19:42 --> 00:19:45 And especially when I'm talking about it for the first time.
00:19:46 --> 00:19:51 So some people didn't even know at all. For example, my younger brother,
00:19:51 --> 00:19:56 Ward, who I am incredibly close with, he didn't know about it until about three or four years ago.
00:19:57 --> 00:20:03 And whenever I talk about it, it's just a visual reaction, and that's how I know it's real.
00:20:03 --> 00:20:06 This trauma is deeply rooted in my DNA.
00:20:08 --> 00:20:12 And just what my body responded to, I was like, okay, this is real.
00:20:12 --> 00:20:13 This actually happened.
00:20:14 --> 00:20:18 And then, of course, as we already said, your brother admitted it.
00:20:19 --> 00:20:23 Yeah, he did. So you know that it was very, very real.
00:20:24 --> 00:20:28 So, okay. In his mind, it wasn't that bad.
00:20:28 --> 00:20:33 That that's the part that really just for
00:20:33 --> 00:20:36 him to minimize what he did
00:20:36 --> 00:20:39 because he didn't feel like it was that bad and i
00:20:39 --> 00:20:44 was very fortunate that he stayed inside the flds cult and he was not an active
00:20:44 --> 00:20:47 part of my life i've only seen him less than five times in the last 27 years
00:20:47 --> 00:20:54 okay a few times that i have seen him i turn into that little girl and i'm just
00:20:54 --> 00:20:59 helpless and he has cornered me a couple of times and, like, forced me to hug him.
00:21:00 --> 00:21:03 Oh, God. Ugh. No, he's got to get through me next time, so.
00:21:03 --> 00:21:07 Well, and he does it at, he did it at funerals, our brother's funerals,
00:21:07 --> 00:21:10 and it's like, you're already vulnerable and just, what do I do with this?
00:21:10 --> 00:21:13 And then he just orders me and I become paralyzed. Yeah.
00:21:14 --> 00:21:18 It's awful. I wouldn't, I wouldn't wish it on anybody. I really wouldn't.
00:21:19 --> 00:21:22 Yeah, I wouldn't either. I wouldn't either.
00:21:24 --> 00:21:30 Now, let's talk for the next little bit about what healing for you actually looks like.
00:21:31 --> 00:21:37 When you think about healing, it's not a destination as much as it is a choice that you make every day.
00:21:37 --> 00:21:41 You and I have talked about that now a bunch of different ways in regard to
00:21:41 --> 00:21:44 all of the different ways that you've survived or we've survived.
00:21:44 --> 00:21:45 It is a conscious choice.
00:21:45 --> 00:21:50 You wake up every day and say, I want to be here. I want to make the most of
00:21:50 --> 00:21:54 my day and my life and my opportunities and my family and all those things.
00:21:54 --> 00:21:58 So what does it look like for you right now?
00:21:58 --> 00:22:04 What are some of the small ways that you reclaim your body, your voice, your power?
00:22:05 --> 00:22:10 Sunlight. It sounds so crazy. Doesn't at all. It doesn't at all.
00:22:10 --> 00:22:14 I mean, when I was going through the thick of it, of losing four family members
00:22:14 --> 00:22:17 in five months, I think I mentioned before that I would lay out on the trampoline
00:22:17 --> 00:22:19 or I'd lay on the grass. It's called grounding.
00:22:20 --> 00:22:24 I listen to music. I actually have a playlist where it's like a certain frequency
00:22:24 --> 00:22:26 that calms your nervous system.
00:22:26 --> 00:22:30 See, this morning I had that playing because talking about these things is not easy.
00:22:30 --> 00:22:35 Would it be easier for me to just go on with my life and heal in private and not talk about this?
00:22:36 --> 00:22:42 Absolutely, 100%. I don't enjoy talking about this and sharing this publicly. It's very hard for me.
00:22:43 --> 00:22:50 And I know it is. I do it because if it can save one other person, I'm good with that.
00:22:50 --> 00:22:53 And every time I feel like I can't do this, I don't want to do this,
00:22:53 --> 00:22:57 I get a message from somebody that tells me that I'm changing their life and
00:22:57 --> 00:23:01 how inspiring it is. And it's not about adoration. It's really not.
00:23:01 --> 00:23:04 I really just want to make a difference in somebody else's life.
00:23:04 --> 00:23:09 And if I can give the voice to a young child or a teenager that maybe hear it
00:23:09 --> 00:23:15 or come across my social media page, and I've said it, message me on my social media platforms.
00:23:15 --> 00:23:19 If I need to be that safe person that you can talk to, do it.
00:23:19 --> 00:23:23 And that's another thing I want to tell people is if you tell somebody,
00:23:23 --> 00:23:30 your parents, that you were abused and they do not do what is necessary to get
00:23:30 --> 00:23:33 you help and get you into therapy, find somebody who will help you.
00:23:34 --> 00:23:37 Somebody else i guarantee if i had talked to my best
00:23:37 --> 00:23:40 friend's parents who were not of our church i guarantee if
00:23:40 --> 00:23:43 i had told her mom she would
00:23:43 --> 00:23:46 have done anything to help me so yeah that's my biggest message there
00:23:46 --> 00:23:49 find somebody who will help you somebody that will listen and
00:23:49 --> 00:23:53 take care of yourself go to therapy write about
00:23:53 --> 00:23:57 it talk about it listen to music go
00:23:57 --> 00:24:00 for walks my children have provided a
00:24:00 --> 00:24:02 tremendous amount of healing and as they've
00:24:02 --> 00:24:06 grown up they're almost 12 and 14 now and
00:24:06 --> 00:24:11 when they've reached those ages where I was abused oh when my daughter was that
00:24:11 --> 00:24:15 age I mean that's gonna be so hard you want to talk about some being hyper aware
00:24:15 --> 00:24:21 and guarding her like a hawk absolutely remember completely different type of
00:24:21 --> 00:24:24 conversation completely different experience but I remember,
00:24:25 --> 00:24:30 so we have two daughters, minor grown women now, but I remember vividly a few
00:24:30 --> 00:24:35 of those milestones, like when I celebrated my oldest daughter's 10th birthday.
00:24:35 --> 00:24:40 That's how old I was when my father took his life. So now all of a sudden,
00:24:40 --> 00:24:45 I'm thinking about her being where I was.
00:24:45 --> 00:24:49 And I remember when I myself turned 45 years old, the same age my father was
00:24:49 --> 00:24:52 when he passed away, or Dave turned 40.
00:24:52 --> 00:24:58 Those are moments that really have a very deep and profound impact.
00:24:58 --> 00:25:06 And you're kind of hardwired to just internalize them in a very different way
00:25:06 --> 00:25:08 when you've had trauma attached to them.
00:25:10 --> 00:25:14 Yeah. And so my children have provided some healing and hypervigilance.
00:25:14 --> 00:25:17 And you want to talk about hypervigilance just constantly.
00:25:17 --> 00:25:24 I, again, still to this day, have to rewire my brain to not constantly be scanning for danger.
00:25:24 --> 00:25:28 It is a daily practice of I'm safe. I'm okay.
00:25:29 --> 00:25:34 And it's learning. The most important thing you can do in your healing process
00:25:34 --> 00:25:35 is learn to listen to your body.
00:25:35 --> 00:25:39 Your body talks to you Whether you listen or not And if you'll take a moment
00:25:39 --> 00:25:45 To listen And scan your body And be like What do I need in this moment It will
00:25:45 --> 00:25:49 tell you And every time Where I have not listened to my body I,
00:25:50 --> 00:25:56 It has forced me in bed, like ended up sick or something like that.
00:25:56 --> 00:25:59 The things like this manifest in a physical way.
00:25:59 --> 00:26:04 If you do not deal with your emotions, it will manifest in many different ways,
00:26:04 --> 00:26:05 oftentimes autoimmune disorders.
00:26:06 --> 00:26:08 I actually was thinking about this the other day.
00:26:08 --> 00:26:12 I was diagnosed with hyperthyroidism.
00:26:12 --> 00:26:17 My thyroid went completely at 15 within a year of me having these flashbacks.
00:26:19 --> 00:26:22 And the doctor who had been in practice for 30
00:26:22 --> 00:26:25 years said that was the so it might it had kind of
00:26:25 --> 00:26:27 swelled became what's called a goiter sure he said
00:26:27 --> 00:26:34 it was the largest goiter he had ever seen on any patient and i was 15 so hypothyroidism
00:26:34 --> 00:26:39 is an autoimmune disorder well i mean anyone anyone interesting that it was
00:26:39 --> 00:26:46 in my throat because i felt silent because i had to be silent about it That's so interesting.
00:26:46 --> 00:26:50 And our brains and our bodies are connected.
00:26:50 --> 00:26:55 They are all hardwired. So when our physical body is in pain,
00:26:56 --> 00:27:03 it's why when so many people deal with physical injuries or limitations or long-term physical setbacks,
00:27:03 --> 00:27:06 their mental health is so deeply affected and vice versa.
00:27:06 --> 00:27:14 When your mental health is impacted, your physical body takes on those signs
00:27:14 --> 00:27:17 and symptoms and starts displaying pain.
00:27:17 --> 00:27:23 You know, in a corresponding way. So everything is connected and it doesn't
00:27:23 --> 00:27:27 surprise me one bit, especially considering the timing of everything that was
00:27:27 --> 00:27:30 going on in your life and when things started to come out and surface and you
00:27:30 --> 00:27:32 started to acknowledge what was going on.
00:27:32 --> 00:27:35 So that's not a big surprise to me.
00:27:35 --> 00:27:39 It's just more reinforcement, like you said, that we really need to be paying
00:27:39 --> 00:27:43 close attention because whether it be our brain or it be our body itself,
00:27:43 --> 00:27:47 we're going to be getting the messages that something is not okay when it's not.
00:27:47 --> 00:27:53 Yeah. Yeah. So as we flow to the end of this conversation,
00:27:54 --> 00:28:05 you sharing your story of sexual abuse today is just, it's you taking your power back.
00:28:05 --> 00:28:07 It's you reclaiming your story.
00:28:07 --> 00:28:12 And I just hope that every survivor who's listening to this conversation listens,
00:28:12 --> 00:28:15 feeling that they have the same permission.
00:28:16 --> 00:28:21 Like you don't owe the world your pain for it to be valid.
00:28:21 --> 00:28:24 Your pain, whatever it is that you're feeling, whether it's something you have
00:28:24 --> 00:28:28 experienced, you are currently experiencing, it is valid.
00:28:28 --> 00:28:34 And you get to reclaim that in whatever way you need to do it.
00:28:34 --> 00:28:40 So if today's conversation is a hard conversation, Like, it's hard for me to
00:28:40 --> 00:28:43 sit here asking these questions and hearing you have to relive it.
00:28:44 --> 00:28:49 But it's such a gift to those of us who are listening to have someone be so
00:28:49 --> 00:28:54 transparent with these experiences so that the people who are out there finding
00:28:54 --> 00:28:58 points of connection in your story can feel like they're not alone.
00:28:58 --> 00:29:02 That is the whole point of why you and I are doing what we're doing.
00:29:02 --> 00:29:09 It's to create a community where people can see themselves and know that they're not alone.
00:29:09 --> 00:29:13 So if today brought things up for you in your body or your brain,
00:29:14 --> 00:29:16 here are three things to do.
00:29:17 --> 00:29:24 As you move on with your day and process what you've heard in this episode,
00:29:24 --> 00:29:28 sexual abuse doesn't just hurt the body. It tries to steal your language.
00:29:29 --> 00:29:30 Don't let it steal your language.
00:29:31 --> 00:29:38 You don't have to share the details to be believed. Your story is your story.
00:29:39 --> 00:29:44 And the last thing is that healing doesn't have to be this big out loud thing.
00:29:44 --> 00:29:49 You and I are choosing to share on a platform where people can hear us what's
00:29:49 --> 00:29:52 gone on in our lives and what we've experienced.
00:29:52 --> 00:29:55 That doesn't mean it's a right or a wrong thing to do. It just means it's the
00:29:55 --> 00:29:57 thing that you and I are choosing to do.
00:29:57 --> 00:30:02 Sometimes healing is just as simple as breathing in your own body without an
00:30:02 --> 00:30:08 apology at all, is just showing up for yourself in the way that you need to show up.
00:30:08 --> 00:30:15 So, Natasha, just thanks for your truth today, just for choosing your voice
00:30:15 --> 00:30:18 and choosing to use it the way that you're using it.
00:30:18 --> 00:30:21 And to anybody who's listening or watching this conversation,
00:30:22 --> 00:30:25 just remember, healing is not a straight line. We're going to say it a lot.
00:30:25 --> 00:30:31 And you don't at all have to walk it alone. We're here.
00:30:31 --> 00:30:35 We're just two people out of a whole world of people who are here.
00:30:35 --> 00:30:38 If you or somebody you know is struggling...
00:30:39 --> 00:30:44 With sexual abuse in particular, please call the National Sexual Abuse Hotline.
00:30:44 --> 00:30:52 You can call them at 800-656-4673, or you can call the 988 Crisis and Suicide
00:30:52 --> 00:30:59 Lifeline number to talk about whatever it is that's going on that you might need to navigate.
00:30:59 --> 00:31:03 Next week, can you believe next week is going to be our Thanksgiving episode?
00:31:03 --> 00:31:08 Already? Yes. Yes. Where did 2025 go?
00:31:08 --> 00:31:11 I don't know. I have no idea. But we're going to be talking about gratitude
00:31:11 --> 00:31:14 and we're going to be talking about grief, which are two really kind of kooky
00:31:14 --> 00:31:16 things to put together, but we're going to do it.
00:31:17 --> 00:31:21 We're going to talk honestly about what it means to sit at a holiday table and
00:31:21 --> 00:31:24 carry a loss or a lot of losses.
00:31:25 --> 00:31:29 So until then, don't forget to defrost your turkey.
00:31:30 --> 00:31:34 And we're really glad you showed up. If you're here and you've listened this
00:31:34 --> 00:31:38 long, we're really glad you showed up. So keep surviving. We'll see you next week.
00:31:39 --> 00:31:42 Thanks so much for listening and for being part of the Survivors community.
00:31:43 --> 00:31:47 No matter where you are in your story, you're not alone, and you're definitely not broken.
00:31:48 --> 00:31:52 Healing takes time, and it looks different for everyone. The fact that you're
00:31:52 --> 00:31:55 still here and still trying means you're already doing the hard work.
00:31:56 --> 00:32:00 If something in today's conversation resonated with you, please share it with
00:32:00 --> 00:32:01 someone who might need to hear it too.
00:32:02 --> 00:32:06 That's how we keep these conversations going and remind each other that there's always hope.
00:32:07 --> 00:32:09 And if you or someone you know is struggling, please remember,
00:32:10 --> 00:32:11 help is always out there.
00:32:11 --> 00:32:16 You can call or text 988 anytime to reach a trained crisis counselor like me.
00:32:16 --> 00:32:19 And for more mental health resources, tools, treatment options,
00:32:19 --> 00:32:23 and content to support your mental health, visit thehelphub.co.
00:32:23 --> 00:32:27 We're so grateful you're part of the Survivors family, and we'll be back next
00:32:27 --> 00:32:31 week with another honest conversation about life after the hardest things.
00:32:31 --> 00:32:35 Until then, take care of yourself and your people, and keep surviving.
00:32:36 --> 00:32:40 Thanks so much for listening and for being part of the Survivors community.
00:32:40 --> 00:32:45 No matter where you are in your story, you're not alone and you're definitely not broken.
00:32:45 --> 00:32:50 Healing takes time and it looks different for everyone. The fact that you're
00:32:50 --> 00:32:53 still here and still trying means you're already doing the hard work.
00:32:54 --> 00:32:58 If something in today's conversation resonated with you, please share it with
00:32:58 --> 00:32:59 someone who might need to hear it too.
00:33:00 --> 00:33:04 That's how we keep these conversations going and remind each other that there's always hope.
00:33:05 --> 00:33:08 And if you or someone you know is struggling, please remember,
00:33:08 --> 00:33:09 help is always out there.
00:33:09 --> 00:33:14 You can call or text 988 anytime to reach a trained crisis counselor like me.
00:33:14 --> 00:33:18 And for more mental health resources, tools, treatment options,
00:33:18 --> 00:33:21 and content to support your mental health, visit thehelphub.co.
00:33:22 --> 00:33:25 We're so grateful you're part of the Survivors family, and we'll be back next
00:33:25 --> 00:33:29 week with another honest conversation about life after the hardest things.
00:33:29 --> 00:33:34 Until then, take care of yourself and your people and keep surviving.