*WARNING: This podcast mentions suicide, sexual abuse & trauma and may be triggering.
Episode Summary
Lisa & Natasha kick off Season 6 during Suicide Prevention Month with a candid, real-time conversation about lived experience—suicide attempts, multiple losses, childhood trauma, and the daily reality of mental health. And Natasha shares recent suicidal thoughts, and the episode models honest vulnerability and peer support.
The episode highlights practical steps for safety and connection, encourages reaching out (including calling or texting 988), and offers a message of community, hope, and the importance of showing up for each other.
Episode Sponsored by The HelpHUB™
Struggling with your mental health? Feeling lost, overwhelmed, or just alone? Well, you're not. Welcome to The HelpHUB™—your online destination for mental health resources, treatment options, content, and tools to help meet you exactly where you are in the moment. Visit TheHelpHUB.co to get started.
Key Topics
- Personal experiences with suicide and trauma
- The importance of lived experience in understanding mental health
- Misconceptions about suicide and how to address them
- The role of community and support systems in prevention
- Practical steps for helping someone in crisis
Chapters
00:00 - Introduction and Season Kickoff 02:06 - Sharing Personal Loss and Lived Experience 05:03 - Misunderstandings About Suicide 08:01 - The Impact of Words and Beliefs 12:00 - The Role of Support and Resources 17:03 - The Power of Vulnerability and Honesty 21:55 - Rewiring Beliefs and Changing Perspectives 27:04 - Community Support and Ongoing Conversations 30:55 - Self-Care and Grounding Techniques 35:50 - The Importance of Listening and Showing Up 41:07 - Hope, Resilience, and Moving ForwardMental Health Resources
- If you or someone you know is struggling, please call 988 for help.
- The Survivors Podcast Website – https://thesurvivors.net/
- National Domestic Violence Hotline – Call 1-800-799-SAFE (7223)
- Surviving: Finding Hope After Suicide Loss (Familius Books)
- The HelpHUB™ – Mental health resources, tools, and support networks – https://www.thehelphub.co/
Follow & Connect With Us
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See you next week! In the meantime, keep surviving.
00:00:00 --> 00:00:04 Hey friends, before we dive into this week's episode, just a heads up.
00:00:04 --> 00:00:08 Our podcast talks about suicide, sexual abuse, and other trauma.
00:00:09 --> 00:00:12 And some of what you hear may be triggering. So please listen with care.
00:00:13 --> 00:00:18 This is The Survivors. Real stories, raw conversations, and the truth about
00:00:18 --> 00:00:21 what it means to keep going after the hardest things.
00:00:21 --> 00:00:24 We're so glad you're here. Let's keep surviving together.
00:00:27 --> 00:00:33 I can't believe that I'm saying this, but we're officially kicking off season
00:00:33 --> 00:00:38 six of this podcast. And this is our fourth season together.
00:00:38 --> 00:00:40 Do you believe that? No.
00:00:40 --> 00:00:45 No. I feel like it's been 100 years, but not at the same time.
00:00:45 --> 00:00:47 Yeah, I know. I know. It's a little time warpy.
00:00:48 --> 00:00:52 And I honestly in terms of like kicking off this season.
00:00:53 --> 00:00:56 I feel like there is not a more appropriate conversation for us to start this
00:00:56 --> 00:01:02 season with because September is suicide prevention month and it just got started
00:01:02 --> 00:01:03 like a little over a week ago.
00:01:04 --> 00:01:08 And it just happens to coincide with the beginning of season six so and it's
00:01:08 --> 00:01:12 and it's a conversation that I'm glad you and I are having together.
00:01:12 --> 00:01:17 We've had some unbelievable guests in the last couple of seasons,
00:01:17 --> 00:01:18 and we're having so many more.
00:01:18 --> 00:01:22 I feel like we have even more teed up for this season, but this is an opportunity
00:01:22 --> 00:01:28 for just you and I to kind of reflect, just to talk about what we talk about
00:01:28 --> 00:01:30 so much of the time. It's our work. It's our life.
00:01:31 --> 00:01:35 It's something that affects both of us and the people we love.
00:01:35 --> 00:01:41 And so you and I talking about it as we kick off Suicide Prevention Month just made sense.
00:01:41 --> 00:01:45 So you down for that we're definitely in this together and,
00:01:45 --> 00:01:51 i i couldn't be more grateful to to have this platform so to speak and you know
00:01:51 --> 00:01:57 what you and i have created here together is absolutely amazing and the messages
00:01:57 --> 00:02:00 we get from people about how much it's changed their lives i just,
00:02:01 --> 00:02:05 i don't take it for granted a single second of the day yeah for what we have
00:02:05 --> 00:02:07 here yeah no Agreed. Totally agreed.
00:02:08 --> 00:02:14 And I mean, that's a good place to just jump into this conversation.
00:02:14 --> 00:02:18 So between the two of us, if someone is just listening to this conversation
00:02:18 --> 00:02:22 and you just stumbled on our podcast, or maybe you've been listening and haven't
00:02:22 --> 00:02:23 heard us for a little bit.
00:02:24 --> 00:02:28 We have lost eight people we love to suicide between us.
00:02:28 --> 00:02:34 You have lost five of your brothers to suicide. You also lost your dad to cancer.
00:02:35 --> 00:02:38 I've lost three people I love, including my father, to suicide.
00:02:39 --> 00:02:42 You have survived three of your own attempts on your own life.
00:02:43 --> 00:02:46 So when you and I have this conversation, and we've talked about it in many
00:02:46 --> 00:02:49 different ways over the last handful of seasons, when we talk about suicide
00:02:49 --> 00:02:50 and suicide prevention,
00:02:51 --> 00:02:58 neither one of us is coming at this from the position of a clinician or a counselor
00:02:58 --> 00:03:01 or from a textbook perspective.
00:03:02 --> 00:03:07 You and I are coming at it from 100% trauma-informed lived experience.
00:03:07 --> 00:03:15 And for me, when I'm seeking out information or content or podcasts or articles,
00:03:15 --> 00:03:19 whatever it might be, that's the perspective I'm always looking for.
00:03:20 --> 00:03:24 And this is not to invalidate in any way all the clinicians out there because
00:03:24 --> 00:03:25 they are hugely valuable.
00:03:26 --> 00:03:29 I just feel for myself that I connect more with someone who's gone through the
00:03:29 --> 00:03:31 same kind of stuff that I've gone through.
00:03:31 --> 00:03:35 And I know that you feel the same way because it's a unique perspective.
00:03:36 --> 00:03:41 It is. And you can't beat lived experience. I mean, talk about being in the trenches.
00:03:43 --> 00:03:50 You know, clawing your way out of that grief and those mental health challenges.
00:03:50 --> 00:03:55 I mean, that gives a level of resilience and tenacity that most people don't
00:03:55 --> 00:03:57 ever experience in their lifetime.
00:03:58 --> 00:04:01 No, and they don't understand it unless they've experienced it.
00:04:02 --> 00:04:07 And the fact that you and I have experienced most of what we talk about,
00:04:07 --> 00:04:11 I mean, obviously, this podcast has evolved into something where we talk about
00:04:11 --> 00:04:14 sexual abuse, which unfortunately you've experienced, domestic violence,
00:04:14 --> 00:04:16 which unfortunately you have experienced.
00:04:17 --> 00:04:21 And yet we're broadening the scope of what we talk about to be,
00:04:23 --> 00:04:24 we're all surviving something.
00:04:24 --> 00:04:28 And so there are times when you and I are having conversations with people and
00:04:28 --> 00:04:30 we have not gone through what they've gone through.
00:04:31 --> 00:04:36 But it's always such a learning experience for you and I, because now we're
00:04:36 --> 00:04:40 hearing something from somebody else's perspective who has gone through the thing.
00:04:40 --> 00:04:45 And that's what I love so much about these conversations and about this podcast.
00:04:45 --> 00:04:52 So in regard to Suicide Prevention Month, you and I know what it's like to be
00:04:53 --> 00:04:56 the people who have been left behind by a suicide loss.
00:04:57 --> 00:04:58 So
00:05:00 --> 00:05:04 I feel like we should talk a little bit about what people still misunderstand,
00:05:04 --> 00:05:09 about suicide and suicide loss and what we kind of wish people understood sooner.
00:05:10 --> 00:05:18 And I think more importantly, what any ordinary person can do to help save someone's life.
00:05:18 --> 00:05:24 Because one of the things that I've learned and become more and more convinced
00:05:24 --> 00:05:29 of through the work that I just do myself is that you don't need to have a clinical
00:05:29 --> 00:05:32 degree to make a difference in somebody's life.
00:05:33 --> 00:05:39 And sometimes you just have to show up. I mean, regardless of what your background
00:05:39 --> 00:05:41 is, you have to just show up.
00:05:41 --> 00:05:46 So is that okay? Can we start kind of in that place? Yeah.
00:05:48 --> 00:05:53 So when you think of Suicide Prevention Month, what does that mean to you now?
00:05:53 --> 00:06:00 Because a year ago, you weren't doing this kind of work. You weren't on a podcast.
00:06:00 --> 00:06:03 You weren't using your voice in quite the same way. You were getting started,
00:06:03 --> 00:06:06 but you were just kind of ramping up.
00:06:08 --> 00:06:12 And I also think that what it means to you is going to hit very differently
00:06:12 --> 00:06:16 for someone like you with your background and experience with attempts and with
00:06:16 --> 00:06:20 losses and everything you've lived through what does it mean to you now.
00:06:22 --> 00:06:31 For me, it means that I get to take my lived experience and educate people on
00:06:31 --> 00:06:33 both sides of the coin because I've experienced it.
00:06:34 --> 00:06:38 Yes, I have a very unique perspective because I've survived three attempts.
00:06:38 --> 00:06:46 I've lost five brothers to that. And that is experience that even with the number of suicides go up,
00:06:47 --> 00:06:52 most people still don't understand it from the perspective of the other side
00:06:52 --> 00:06:55 of the coin of actually wanting to take your own life.
00:06:56 --> 00:07:04 And so i feel like it's my duty to to share both sides of that to help people understand,
00:07:04 --> 00:07:09 and because we still live in a time in fact just a few weeks ago somebody still
00:07:10 --> 00:07:15 knowing that i have lost five brothers told me that they think it is a selfish act,
00:07:16 --> 00:07:23 and it literally i just had a visceral response within my body almost kind of,
00:07:24 --> 00:07:29 anger i wanted to scream at this person what did you say what did you say anything to them,
00:07:30 --> 00:07:35 i'm just curious i'm trying to remember what i said i think i think i just was
00:07:35 --> 00:07:39 like it's not despite what you may believe it it's not,
00:07:40 --> 00:07:46 i was just so taken aback that somebody would actually still say that so if
00:07:46 --> 00:07:51 if there's anything that i can do is it's to help erase that,
00:07:51 --> 00:07:57 or educate people on that side of the coin because it is not a selfish act as,
00:07:57 --> 00:08:03 as someone who has wanted to end their own life and you look at a list of reasons
00:08:03 --> 00:08:10 to say to stay and none of the reasons on that list are for yourself how is that selfish,
00:08:11 --> 00:08:14 that's an interesting point that's a very interesting point.
00:08:15 --> 00:08:20 And I've been there more times than I can count and Lisa I'm going to be real
00:08:20 --> 00:08:22 honest with you here right now mm-hmm,
00:08:23 --> 00:08:26 I was running through that list in my head last night. Okay.
00:08:27 --> 00:08:30 Okay. Of reasons to stay.
00:08:31 --> 00:08:37 Okay. Because life's been pretty heavy for me, and I'll tell you right now,
00:08:37 --> 00:08:41 not a single one of those reasons was for me. Okay.
00:08:42 --> 00:08:46 Well, I mean, for anyone, just for context, before we started recording,
00:08:46 --> 00:08:50 we always just spend a little time just talking to each other and catching up
00:08:50 --> 00:08:53 and housekeeping sort of conversation.
00:08:54 --> 00:08:59 And I asked you, I mean, since we're talking about it, I asked you and I said, how you doing?
00:08:59 --> 00:09:01 Because I knew the other day we had a pretty heavy conversation and I knew that
00:09:01 --> 00:09:07 some stuff was going on and, you know, you were kind of feeling a little challenged
00:09:07 --> 00:09:09 and emotional. And so we talked through and...
00:09:10 --> 00:09:15 I kind of wanted to follow up today and how are you doing? And I knew some stuff was going on again.
00:09:15 --> 00:09:18 And I'm glad you're saying this, but you didn't tell me that when we just talked.
00:09:18 --> 00:09:22 You didn't tell me that. I love how you always wait to tell me when you're in,
00:09:22 --> 00:09:25 like, I'm not saying you're in crisis right now, but you're having thoughts
00:09:25 --> 00:09:28 that you wish you weren't having. And I'm not taking that lightly at all.
00:09:29 --> 00:09:31 But I also know that your coping mechanism is humor. So I'm going to make you
00:09:31 --> 00:09:35 laugh right now and say, why do you do this every time I hit record?
00:09:36 --> 00:09:42 I'm just kidding. I honestly, I do this because I never wanted this to feel
00:09:42 --> 00:09:44 scripted. No, I know. I know.
00:09:44 --> 00:09:47 And I know exactly why. And I mean, I'm laughing only because,
00:09:47 --> 00:09:51 like you, it's a defense mechanism. Like, I don't, I do not take what you just said lightly.
00:09:53 --> 00:10:01 And I appreciate so deeply that you have gotten to a place in our relationship
00:10:01 --> 00:10:04 and with this podcast and with the work that you're doing as an advocate where
00:10:04 --> 00:10:05 you can actually sit here,
00:10:06 --> 00:10:10 while we're taping live and say I was having suicidal thoughts well and I don't
00:10:10 --> 00:10:14 know we is that what you consider them because I don't want to label them that
00:10:14 --> 00:10:17 you consider them that yeah so like passive suicidality,
00:10:18 --> 00:10:21 which for anyone who's listening and who hasn't heard that term before.
00:10:21 --> 00:10:23 And again, this is not scripted.
00:10:24 --> 00:10:28 Passive suicidality just means you're thinking about what it would be like if
00:10:28 --> 00:10:32 you weren't here or how to end pain that you might be in, but you don't have
00:10:32 --> 00:10:36 a plan. You don't have a timeline. You don't have any particular means.
00:10:37 --> 00:10:38 Okay. So maybe it was more than that.
00:10:39 --> 00:10:46 Oh, okay. So for those that don't know, four of my brothers that have died by
00:10:46 --> 00:10:49 suicide were all self-inflicted gunshot wounds.
00:10:51 --> 00:10:57 The most recent one, Monroe, in March of last year, he shot himself in the heart.
00:10:58 --> 00:11:04 Oh, my God. Because he saw how difficult it was for us to mourn the others not
00:11:04 --> 00:11:06 being able to see their face. Okay.
00:11:07 --> 00:11:12 And so I know he did it that way so that we could actually say goodbye to his face. Mm-hmm.
00:11:15 --> 00:11:19 And knowing what it does to people that you leave behind, you know,
00:11:19 --> 00:11:23 and gunshot is always, you know, that's final, but there's always a thought that it couldn't work.
00:11:23 --> 00:11:30 And so what was running through my mind is how could I take my life and not
00:11:31 --> 00:11:37 emotionally scar my kids to the absolute max so that they could say goodbye to my face.
00:11:38 --> 00:11:44 And for me, I was like, I could take all these pills that I have right here,
00:11:45 --> 00:11:52 and I could go fill up the gas tank, and I could go sit in the garage with the car running.
00:11:53 --> 00:11:56 Okay. And this is last night? This was last night, yes.
00:11:56 --> 00:12:01 As I'm laying there in the bed next to my sleeping husband.
00:12:01 --> 00:12:06 Okay. Literal tears sobbing uncontrollably down my face.
00:12:07 --> 00:12:10 He sleeps like a rock, so it's not his fault. I wanted to wake him.
00:12:11 --> 00:12:14 Why didn't you? Because I still
00:12:14 --> 00:12:19 to this day, no matter how many times I hear it, I feel like a burden.
00:12:20 --> 00:12:25 I even thought about calling you. I did. I honestly, I had the phone in my hand
00:12:26 --> 00:12:28 and wanted to press send, but I couldn't.
00:12:29 --> 00:12:34 Okay. Well, you know that your number is one of the numbers that is not blocked
00:12:35 --> 00:12:38 for- Sleeping purposes. D&D, right.
00:12:39 --> 00:12:42 And, I mean, to say that I wish you had is an understatement.
00:12:42 --> 00:12:47 I wish that you had because I hate knowing that you were in that state of mind.
00:12:47 --> 00:12:53 Does George know this? Did you tell him? No, I haven't said anything to anybody about this. Okay.
00:12:53 --> 00:12:56 So you're all hearing this for the first time. Okay.
00:12:56 --> 00:13:01 And, you know, so this to me is what Suicide Awareness Month is,
00:13:01 --> 00:13:09 is having real actual conversations of what it is like to deal with mental health issues.
00:13:10 --> 00:13:16 Every single day, despite being medicated, despite having every single thing
00:13:16 --> 00:13:20 to live for, two beautiful children and a husband that adores me,
00:13:22 --> 00:13:26 I mean, I have so much to live for, but I don't need to be reminded of that.
00:13:27 --> 00:13:32 I have all the reasons in the world to stay. But really, when I think about
00:13:32 --> 00:13:35 it, it comes down to one simple fact.
00:13:36 --> 00:13:39 I'm tired of fighting with my mind.
00:13:41 --> 00:13:44 I get that. I mean, I get that not from personal experience.
00:13:44 --> 00:13:51 I mean, look, we all get overwhelmed. We all have sometimes issues with depression or anxiety.
00:13:52 --> 00:13:53 That is not my baseline.
00:13:54 --> 00:13:58 I don't have the same challenges in that way.
00:13:59 --> 00:14:04 But I understand because of how much time I spend on lifelines and in groups,
00:14:04 --> 00:14:10 with people who do and how much time I spend with you, I understand what it's
00:14:10 --> 00:14:13 like in that way to carry those thoughts.
00:14:13 --> 00:14:18 And not to mention the fact that, you know, you're carrying your own mental
00:14:18 --> 00:14:21 illness and depression, but you've
00:14:21 --> 00:14:26 got something so unbelievably heavy and thick layered on top of that.
00:14:26 --> 00:14:34 You've got five losses and childhood trauma and childhood abuse.
00:14:35 --> 00:14:39 And I also know that, you know, for other people who may not also know,
00:14:39 --> 00:14:45 Natasha was born into a polygamous cult, the FLDS polygamy cult.
00:14:45 --> 00:14:46 That was her upbringing.
00:14:47 --> 00:14:48 Her uncle is Warren Jeffs.
00:14:49 --> 00:14:58 So that whole side of her life was completely dysfunctional in so many ways,
00:14:58 --> 00:15:00 was not raised the way most people are raised.
00:15:02 --> 00:15:09 And you have that trauma. So you have a level of trauma in your life that so
00:15:09 --> 00:15:14 few people actually have. Any one of those things is enough to really keep somebody
00:15:14 --> 00:15:16 down, let alone all of it.
00:15:17 --> 00:15:22 So I get it when you say that it's heavy. I get it when you say you're tired.
00:15:22 --> 00:15:26 I understand more than most because I know more than most about your background.
00:15:26 --> 00:15:27 And we've had all these conversations.
00:15:28 --> 00:15:32 And all I can say, I can say a few things. first of all I'm grateful that you're,
00:15:33 --> 00:15:35 sharing this and I'm grateful,
00:15:37 --> 00:15:42 that you feel the importance of talking about how you feel like this is it like
00:15:42 --> 00:15:44 this is this is the reason why you and I do this not to come on here and like,
00:15:46 --> 00:15:50 you know have these kinds of concerning conversations that people are now going
00:15:50 --> 00:15:53 to you know dive into our dms and say is Natasha okay is Natasha okay and that
00:15:53 --> 00:15:57 happened earlier this year like in the winter time you are not okay
00:15:57 --> 00:16:01 and that's why I made you know kind of a backhanded comment about like you do
00:16:01 --> 00:16:02 this every time we go live but,
00:16:03 --> 00:16:08 no but true because you had done this earlier when this year when you had a really hard time we,
00:16:09 --> 00:16:14 really i mean for all intents and purposes that episode was a crisis call,
00:16:15 --> 00:16:19 i mean i'm a crisis counselor on a crisis lifeline and you were disclosing to
00:16:19 --> 00:16:24 me very openly that you were not okay while we recorded and we decided keep
00:16:24 --> 00:16:28 recording because people need to hear these conversations and people need to know that.
00:16:30 --> 00:16:36 They can say how they feel and that, yeah, okay, true, not everybody is equipped,
00:16:37 --> 00:16:44 or even comfortable receiving a conversation like this or like that one was earlier this year.
00:16:45 --> 00:16:49 But there are people out there who are equipped and who do want to hear.
00:16:50 --> 00:16:53 And if you can't talk to one group of people, you can't talk to your family,
00:16:54 --> 00:16:57 talk to a lifeline. You can't Talk to a lifeline, talk to a therapist,
00:16:57 --> 00:17:01 or talk to a work colleague, or talk to...
00:17:02 --> 00:17:08 Someone that you trust and share those feelings because to keep them bottled
00:17:08 --> 00:17:11 up, I mean, if you weren't sharing everything that you shared in the past year,
00:17:11 --> 00:17:14 like with me, like on TikTok or on,
00:17:15 --> 00:17:17 because you're very, very open on TikTok also.
00:17:18 --> 00:17:24 And here, I can't even imagine what it would be like for you to navigate all
00:17:24 --> 00:17:27 this without an outlet, without places to share. I don't either.
00:17:28 --> 00:17:32 I really don't, especially because I'm not actively in therapy right now.
00:17:32 --> 00:17:37 And this is the other part of mental health that a lot of people struggle with is that.
00:17:38 --> 00:17:45 It's out of my budget to afford mental health care because my children need
00:17:45 --> 00:17:48 it at this moment more than I do.
00:17:49 --> 00:17:54 And when you have insurance that only covers mental health once your deductible
00:17:54 --> 00:18:01 is met and we're paying over $150 per session per child,
00:18:02 --> 00:18:05 doesn't leave much room for mom to get much care.
00:18:06 --> 00:18:12 So I get to raw dog it, as I say. Yeah, which kills me because it shouldn't
00:18:12 --> 00:18:14 be that way. And that's a failure of our health care system.
00:18:14 --> 00:18:16 And that's a whole other conversation.
00:18:17 --> 00:18:23 But this is a good point then in this conversation for me to say and i'm saying
00:18:23 --> 00:18:26 this to you and i'm saying this to anyone who's listening to this episode,
00:18:27 --> 00:18:32 if you're in a similar situation and we know people are because there are a
00:18:32 --> 00:18:35 lot of people out there who don't have health care at all and then there are
00:18:35 --> 00:18:38 a lot of people out there who have you know issues with well if i do this i
00:18:38 --> 00:18:41 can't do that because it's not comprehensive enough to cover everything.
00:18:42 --> 00:18:45 Call a lifeline. It's not a.
00:18:48 --> 00:18:51 They are not necessarily therapists on the line.
00:18:52 --> 00:18:56 I am not a clinician. I am not a trained therapist, psychiatrist, psychologist.
00:18:56 --> 00:19:00 I am not. I'm a trained crisis counselor who can listen to you,
00:19:00 --> 00:19:05 who can hold space for you, who can find other options, groups,
00:19:06 --> 00:19:11 support circles, who can find virtual opportunities to connect with people,
00:19:12 --> 00:19:13 who can give you resources.
00:19:13 --> 00:19:22 So while it isn't calling 988 and talking to someone is not your ultimate solution, is not.
00:19:23 --> 00:19:26 A therapy session, it is an opportunity for someone to hold space for you to
00:19:26 --> 00:19:30 hear what you have to say so you can be validated in what you're feeling.
00:19:30 --> 00:19:34 So you can maybe find a different perspective that can give you help that you
00:19:34 --> 00:19:38 maybe hadn't thought of or resources you hadn't considered.
00:19:39 --> 00:19:42 So if someone's listening to this conversation and you're like well shit i'm
00:19:42 --> 00:19:45 dealing with the same kind of thing natasha is i have all these feelings and
00:19:45 --> 00:19:48 i can't really get help and it's financially based,
00:19:48 --> 00:19:55 call 988 24 hours a day seven days a week as many times as you need to to talk
00:19:55 --> 00:20:01 to a counselor who is trained to have these kinds of conversations and hold that kind of space
00:20:01 --> 00:20:03 and that's what i would remind you because you say it to me every time you're
00:20:03 --> 00:20:08 like damn it i forgot about 988 no actually i did for the first time last,
00:20:08 --> 00:20:13 night i did did you about it i really did i was like okay okay i could call
00:20:13 --> 00:20:16 988 and and again it was and this
00:20:16 --> 00:20:21 is what my brain does is it's like oh i could call i i should call 988,
00:20:21 --> 00:20:26 and then it's like wait i have my own personal 988 person in my back pocket
00:20:26 --> 00:20:29 lisa oh wait no you don't want to burden her.
00:20:31 --> 00:20:37 Just sit here and deal with it. Because that is what my nervous system and my
00:20:37 --> 00:20:43 body has been trained to do, because that is what I've had to do since I was 15 years old.
00:20:44 --> 00:20:52 And I had to cope with telling my parents about being sexually abused by my
00:20:52 --> 00:20:55 brother, and they did nothing to help me. Yeah, I know.
00:20:55 --> 00:21:04 And so I fear that no matter how much time has passed, that will be my baseline forever.
00:21:06 --> 00:21:12 I have thoughts about that. I'm not in a position, no one is in a position to
00:21:12 --> 00:21:14 contradict how you feel in your head.
00:21:14 --> 00:21:18 So I want to 100% validate that that is how you feel.
00:21:19 --> 00:21:21 And I understand and I respect that that's how you feel.
00:21:23 --> 00:21:31 I have a different perspective that makes me feel like with the right kind of
00:21:31 --> 00:21:37 support and the right kind of either treatment or counseling or experience,
00:21:38 --> 00:21:43 letting yourself be vulnerable, reaching out to the people who might be able
00:21:43 --> 00:21:50 to help you, that you can retrain your brain and your body to believe, okay.
00:21:50 --> 00:21:56 That i couldn't get help in all those ways at all those times but i can get
00:21:56 --> 00:22:00 it now okay and getting and i'm not saying that,
00:22:01 --> 00:22:05 you know one magical call with 988 all of a sudden wipes away 25 years of trauma
00:22:05 --> 00:22:08 for you because it's just not going to or one therapy session,
00:22:09 --> 00:22:14 what i am saying is that not everything works for everybody and we know that
00:22:14 --> 00:22:20 to be true as much as we wish it would but i do feel like.
00:22:21 --> 00:22:26 I just innately feel like people do have the capacity to rewire their brains.
00:22:26 --> 00:22:28 And I'm going to tell you, I'm going to give you an example that's different,
00:22:29 --> 00:22:31 different, but totally in line with this conversation.
00:22:32 --> 00:22:34 But I also, let me tell you one thing really quick though, too,
00:22:35 --> 00:22:37 why I continue to raw dog this.
00:22:40 --> 00:22:45 In Utah, after we lost, you know, three, four family members in five months,
00:22:45 --> 00:22:51 we found a, she had 30 years of experience of calm.
00:22:51 --> 00:22:55 Her practice was built on compound trauma.
00:22:55 --> 00:22:58 Okay. Like she's in it. She's dealt with it.
00:22:59 --> 00:23:05 And several of us started going to her and she sat there listening to each of
00:23:05 --> 00:23:09 us individually, you know, individual sessions.
00:23:09 --> 00:23:16 And she was at a loss for words. And she finally got to the point where she said, I can't help you.
00:23:16 --> 00:23:18 You have all been through too much.
00:23:19 --> 00:23:26 I can't help you. Okay. So, if somebody like that, that's what they're trained
00:23:26 --> 00:23:30 in, how could anybody else even come close?
00:23:31 --> 00:23:36 Okay the only answer that i have to that question is a is a comment is a statement
00:23:36 --> 00:23:40 that i've made many times in the history of this podcast and in my own life,
00:23:41 --> 00:23:47 not every therapist is created equal not every therapist patient relationship
00:23:47 --> 00:23:50 and dynamic is created equally,
00:23:50 --> 00:23:55 which means that she was being very honest with you that with all her background
00:23:55 --> 00:23:57 and training and experience.
00:23:58 --> 00:24:04 She herself was not capable of of doing what she felt you needed giving you what she felt you needed,
00:24:05 --> 00:24:10 the way my mind works and this is just me and it's not meant to contradict you
00:24:10 --> 00:24:13 and how you feel and what you've experienced it's just the way my mind works
00:24:13 --> 00:24:15 in my own experience is that,
00:24:16 --> 00:24:20 she did say she couldn't help because she probably couldn't but that doesn't
00:24:20 --> 00:24:23 mean somebody else couldn't going forward.
00:24:25 --> 00:24:29 I mean, I've had different therapists before until I landed on the right person.
00:24:29 --> 00:24:36 My children have had the same experience. Obviously, much different background, different issues.
00:24:36 --> 00:24:41 But the point is the same, that every relationship is so different.
00:24:42 --> 00:24:46 And what someone brings to it, especially if they're trained, is different.
00:24:47 --> 00:24:54 And you know obviously it takes effort to start with someone new and share your
00:24:54 --> 00:24:58 story and and go through those motions in a new relationship,
00:24:59 --> 00:25:02 but i feel like we all owe it to ourselves to say okay i couldn't get what i
00:25:02 --> 00:25:08 needed from this person in this setting this way okay there's a whole world
00:25:08 --> 00:25:11 of people out there who are trained in different ways,
00:25:11 --> 00:25:15 and have different backgrounds and experiences and they're not all equal.
00:25:16 --> 00:25:20 So I don't know if that's more of an answer to a question or more of just a
00:25:20 --> 00:25:22 statement to make, probably just a statement to make.
00:25:23 --> 00:25:28 But I want to go back for a second to what I wanted to share with you about
00:25:28 --> 00:25:31 how my mind changed about something. Okay.
00:25:32 --> 00:25:35 You talked about the belief system. You got a comment from someone that you
00:25:35 --> 00:25:39 were upset about because they said they thought suicide was selfish. Mm-hmm.
00:25:40 --> 00:25:43 I was one of those people, and you know that because we've talked about that many, many times.
00:25:45 --> 00:25:48 Hey it's lisa sugarman co-host of the survivors and founder of the help hub,
00:25:49 --> 00:25:53 if you're listening right now and you're not okay if you're feeling overwhelmed
00:25:53 --> 00:25:56 stuck or like you're carrying more than you can handle,
00:25:57 --> 00:26:02 please know you don't have to go through it alone you can call or text 988 or
00:26:02 --> 00:26:07 chat online at 988lifeline.org to connect with trained counselors like me who
00:26:07 --> 00:26:09 are there to listen and support you in the moment.
00:26:10 --> 00:26:15 Reaching out is a brave first step and you owe it to yourself because your life
00:26:15 --> 00:26:21 matters, your story matters, and help is always just three numbers away. Thank you.
00:26:23 --> 00:26:28 For the better part of my youth and young adult and adult life,
00:26:29 --> 00:26:34 until I learned about my dad's own suicide, I was a firm believer that suicide was a selfish act.
00:26:35 --> 00:26:39 Nobody gave me that belief. It was just something that I learned because of
00:26:39 --> 00:26:40 my own lived experience.
00:26:41 --> 00:26:44 And I believed it. And no one was telling me different.
00:26:45 --> 00:26:47 I kept it very much to myself.
00:26:47 --> 00:26:54 And it was only after learning my father had died by suicide and learning that truth,
00:26:54 --> 00:27:00 and needing to understand what he must have been going through and understanding
00:27:00 --> 00:27:03 mental illness in a way that I had never understood it before,
00:27:03 --> 00:27:06 opening myself up to that, that everything changed.
00:27:07 --> 00:27:16 And my perspective completely and totally changed, like 180 degrees opposite from what it was.
00:27:16 --> 00:27:21 And I now no longer believe in any way, shape, or form that suicide is a selfish act.
00:27:22 --> 00:27:26 And I'm only saying this and I know it's a very different situation than what
00:27:26 --> 00:27:32 you're talking about with your own mental health and wellness, but I say that because,
00:27:34 --> 00:27:38 I believe it's always possible that we can change our belief systems.
00:27:39 --> 00:27:42 So where you've said, oh, you know what? Didn't help me, this person couldn't
00:27:42 --> 00:27:45 help me, I can't be helped, or I'm always gonna feel this way,
00:27:45 --> 00:27:47 I'm always gonna... going to be kind of.
00:27:51 --> 00:27:53 One step away from doing the bad thing to myself,
00:27:55 --> 00:28:04 I do believe that circumstances, people, experiences, conversations have the
00:28:04 --> 00:28:07 power to change us in ways we don't expect.
00:28:08 --> 00:28:13 And that's what I think the essence of this conversation is and the essence
00:28:13 --> 00:28:15 of this whole awareness month.
00:28:15 --> 00:28:19 I mean, like obviously like Pride Month, like Mental Health Awareness Month
00:28:19 --> 00:28:25 in May, like all these incredible awareness months where people are all amped
00:28:25 --> 00:28:30 up and vocal and sharing their stories extra.
00:28:30 --> 00:28:34 Everybody's extra in this month about suicide prevention. We should be extra 12 months a year.
00:28:35 --> 00:28:38 This is just an opportunity where everybody's kind of doing it together and
00:28:38 --> 00:28:41 it's a bigger wave of activity.
00:28:41 --> 00:28:46 But we should be able to do this all year long and have these conversations
00:28:46 --> 00:28:52 and well you and i do yeah right we do we do have these conversations these
00:28:52 --> 00:28:54 difficult conversations year-round.
00:28:55 --> 00:29:01 So yeah yeah but i think we desperately need that we need to be doing that you
00:29:01 --> 00:29:05 know and suicide prevention can't be something we kind of like flip on in september
00:29:05 --> 00:29:09 and then october 1st we're going to shut it down and circle back to it next year.
00:29:09 --> 00:29:13 People struggle in October and the winter and the summer and all the other months too.
00:29:15 --> 00:29:18 You know, so I mean, I think for me, this conversation that we're having today
00:29:18 --> 00:29:22 is more about like teaching people something that they can carry with them the
00:29:22 --> 00:29:23 other 11 months of the year.
00:29:24 --> 00:29:30 That honesty and vulnerability is their powerful tools and we all have them,
00:29:30 --> 00:29:33 and we didn't have to sit in a classroom to get them.
00:29:34 --> 00:29:38 Right. You know, we just have to trust ourselves a little. Let me ask you this.
00:29:40 --> 00:29:45 Now that you've shared how you were really, really feeling and that you were
00:29:45 --> 00:29:48 feeling like a burden and feeling like you couldn't go on and actually like
00:29:48 --> 00:29:53 having very active suicidal thoughts as recently as last night.
00:29:53 --> 00:29:59 And you told me and we're talking about it. How do you feel right in this moment?
00:29:59 --> 00:30:07 It's always a relief. Yeah. It's always a big relief for me to get out of in
00:30:07 --> 00:30:11 here and out open into the world.
00:30:11 --> 00:30:19 And I mean, I feel, especially as we're recording this, I feel like I'm sitting here butt naked.
00:30:20 --> 00:30:25 Because like just having those thoughts out there in the world, like, wow,
00:30:26 --> 00:30:31 you know, but so it, and I've mentioned this before where it takes a level of
00:30:31 --> 00:30:37 trust and uncertainty and uncomfortability, allowing yourself to be uncomfortable
00:30:37 --> 00:30:40 because it can be to share those thoughts.
00:30:40 --> 00:30:46 But there is relief on the other side of that openness and that vulnerability that you're,
00:30:46 --> 00:30:52 that you can take because how much for every one person out there that is open
00:30:52 --> 00:30:57 and honest there's hundreds if not thousands that don't say a word,
00:30:57 --> 00:31:02 oh absolutely i feel like there are way more people who don't say it.
00:31:03 --> 00:31:07 Than who do and i give you an incredible amount of credit and i've always given
00:31:07 --> 00:31:10 you an incredible amount of credit since the day we met,
00:31:11 --> 00:31:16 that you are doing the hard thing and you're having these conversations and
00:31:16 --> 00:31:22 you're sharing that you're not okay and you're showing what happens when you
00:31:22 --> 00:31:24 share that you're not okay,
00:31:24 --> 00:31:30 and how powerful community can really be that's what that's this is like an
00:31:30 --> 00:31:36 exercise and a completely unplanned exercise in or example of,
00:31:36 --> 00:31:41 what happens when you're open and transparent that you're not okay.
00:31:42 --> 00:31:47 So now I'm gonna do what I did the last time we had a conversation similar to
00:31:47 --> 00:31:50 this back in January in the winter.
00:31:51 --> 00:31:56 What can you do for yourself after our conversation is over?
00:31:57 --> 00:32:03 I want to make sure you're safe and you're not acting on anything that you were
00:32:03 --> 00:32:04 thinking about last night.
00:32:05 --> 00:32:09 What can you do to keep yourself? Well, the adage, go touch grass,
00:32:10 --> 00:32:11 which I did this morning.
00:32:11 --> 00:32:15 Okay, good. I literally went and sat on the grass. Good. That's grounding.
00:32:15 --> 00:32:17 That's incredibly important. Yes.
00:32:18 --> 00:32:24 You know I spent some time with my husband and the kids this morning and you
00:32:24 --> 00:32:27 know just giving myself a glimpse of.
00:32:28 --> 00:32:34 What life can be if I choose to stay so I heard a theory that,
00:32:35 --> 00:32:43 grief rather than grief being a wave where it comes and goes what if grief is actually the ocean,
00:32:44 --> 00:32:48 and it's joy and happiness and the other parts of life that are actually the
00:32:48 --> 00:32:54 wave because grief is always something there that you carry it never goes away
00:32:54 --> 00:32:58 you never stop remembering the other person and then you get a glimpse of,
00:32:59 --> 00:33:04 you forget for a moment you're immersed in a happy moment with your family or
00:33:04 --> 00:33:05 your kids or whatever and you can,
00:33:06 --> 00:33:08 and in those moments that you can forget,
00:33:09 --> 00:33:12 or just have some relief from that grief.
00:33:12 --> 00:33:17 And grief comes as not just the loss of a loved one, it's grieving the loss
00:33:17 --> 00:33:20 of a childhood that you know you deserved, but you didn't get.
00:33:21 --> 00:33:26 Grieving the loss of a relationship with somebody who chose not to have you
00:33:26 --> 00:33:31 in their life, as someone who has no contact with the majority of my family.
00:33:31 --> 00:33:36 Grief comes in so many ways, it's not just surrounding death. Mm-hmm.
00:33:38 --> 00:33:41 I actively grieve all the time,
00:33:42 --> 00:33:48 having a normal life like I wonder that all the time what how different could
00:33:48 --> 00:33:55 I have been as an adult if I hadn't had to survive my childhood like if I had just got to,
00:33:55 --> 00:34:01 be happy and live and experience childhood and my neurons could have,
00:34:01 --> 00:34:08 formed normal pathways and just learn to be a kid instead of literally living
00:34:08 --> 00:34:14 in survival mode growing up with my brain formed around complex PTSD.
00:34:16 --> 00:34:21 You know, it's all those things. Yeah, I get it. And you know what?
00:34:21 --> 00:34:25 You are totally entitled to grieve that.
00:34:25 --> 00:34:30 You have the right to grieve that in whatever way you need to grieve that for
00:34:30 --> 00:34:32 as long as you need to grieve that.
00:34:32 --> 00:34:39 And grieving it for however long you do doesn't mean that you can't also be
00:34:39 --> 00:34:44 fulfilled and see that as a part of your past.
00:34:44 --> 00:34:48 We can't erase our past. It all has meaning.
00:34:49 --> 00:34:51 Some of it terrible meaning.
00:34:52 --> 00:34:55 Other people's pasts don't. They have different meaning.
00:34:57 --> 00:35:01 In your case, it's traumatic and it's hard. It is part of your story as much
00:35:01 --> 00:35:03 as you wish you could wipe it out of your memory completely.
00:35:04 --> 00:35:08 And that's the part of me that is wired to believe, and again,
00:35:08 --> 00:35:16 this is just me being me, is wired to believe that we do have the capacity to
00:35:16 --> 00:35:19 some degree to chart our own course.
00:35:19 --> 00:35:25 Like, you can't control what's happened to you. You can't control being born into a polygamy cult.
00:35:25 --> 00:35:29 You can't control that your family was excommunicated from that cult.
00:35:29 --> 00:35:31 You can't control that your uncle is Warren Jeffs.
00:35:31 --> 00:35:37 You can't control what happened with your brother that he sexually assaulted
00:35:37 --> 00:35:40 you. All the things that you've had to deal with, you couldn't control at the time.
00:35:41 --> 00:35:47 You get to control going forward. You get to control how much power you give that or don't.
00:35:48 --> 00:35:50 Not that I'm saying it's easy because it's not.
00:35:51 --> 00:35:55 But you get to control how you share your story, when you share your story,
00:35:55 --> 00:36:00 if you share your story, how much of your story you share, why you share your story.
00:36:01 --> 00:36:04 And I feel like there's power in that.
00:36:05 --> 00:36:08 When I look at you, and this is not blowing sunshine up your ass because you
00:36:08 --> 00:36:10 know in these moments I won't do that to you. You know I love you.
00:36:10 --> 00:36:12 I don't need to tell you a thousand times. I tell you all the time.
00:36:13 --> 00:36:16 Not blowing sunshine up your ass. I'm just saying.
00:36:18 --> 00:36:23 You are doing something so valuable with what happened to you.
00:36:23 --> 00:36:27 And it's not just valuable for the people who are hearing how you've navigated it.
00:36:28 --> 00:36:33 It's valuable for you because it's cathartic and it gives you power to be like, no, no, no.
00:36:34 --> 00:36:37 I get to decide what I do with this.
00:36:39 --> 00:36:42 You just have a lot. You just have so much of it.
00:36:44 --> 00:36:49 And therein lies the challenge for you. And I wish that I, you know, I wish I could fix it.
00:36:50 --> 00:36:52 Nosh, every time, every time I see your face, every time we talk,
00:36:53 --> 00:36:56 even when we're having a great conversation, I know it's under the surface and
00:36:56 --> 00:37:00 I wish that I could say something, do something, give you the magic pill and it's fixed.
00:37:01 --> 00:37:03 That's not possible.
00:37:05 --> 00:37:09 Doing what I'm doing now and what you and I are doing now, that's suicide prevention.
00:37:10 --> 00:37:13 That's showing up. That's just, I'm hearing what you're saying.
00:37:13 --> 00:37:18 I'm just saying, like, it sucks that you have to deal with this.
00:37:18 --> 00:37:23 And I don't like knowing that you're kind of always one foot over the edge.
00:37:24 --> 00:37:28 But to try and convince you that you're not is not going to be helpful.
00:37:28 --> 00:37:31 You are. And there are reasons why you are.
00:37:32 --> 00:37:38 And so suicide prevention, I think at its core, starts with having an open,
00:37:38 --> 00:37:42 honest conversation like this and being like, babe, I wish I could fix this for you.
00:37:42 --> 00:37:45 I don't know how, but I'm just going to show up and listen. I don't have all
00:37:45 --> 00:37:47 the answers. I'm not going to counsel you.
00:37:47 --> 00:37:57 I just, I see you and I hear you and and you are of value to me and you already know all the reasons,
00:37:58 --> 00:38:03 to be here i don't need to remind you of those reasons plus i also know that's
00:38:03 --> 00:38:05 not helpful to you in a moment like this but,
00:38:06 --> 00:38:09 as much as i wish i could solve the depression and everything that goes along with it i can't.
00:38:11 --> 00:38:14 And i think that that's a really important distinction and while i wish we weren't
00:38:14 --> 00:38:18 having this exact conversation because it was very different than the conversation
00:38:18 --> 00:38:21 we planned on having today, but I'm so sorry. No.
00:38:21 --> 00:38:24 Oh my God. I will, I would smack you in the head right now. If I could touch you.
00:38:25 --> 00:38:28 I know, do not be sorry that we're having this conversation.
00:38:28 --> 00:38:33 What I was about to say was, I can't think, I wish you didn't feel this way.
00:38:33 --> 00:38:34 So I wish we weren't having it.
00:38:35 --> 00:38:39 But since you are feeling this way, I'm grateful that we're having it because
00:38:39 --> 00:38:43 I think that this is real life this is this is,
00:38:43 --> 00:38:49 someone in crisis in real time having a conversation with someone who's just
00:38:50 --> 00:38:54 trying to show up and be there and help and it is suicide prevention month,
00:38:55 --> 00:39:00 and that's the essence of what we're talking about so you know i i.
00:39:01 --> 00:39:08 I just, I wish more people weren't as afraid as they are to ask the questions
00:39:08 --> 00:39:11 and to dive deep and say, okay, you're not so great. Why?
00:39:12 --> 00:39:14 What are you thinking? Where's your head at?
00:39:16 --> 00:39:18 Are you thinking about harming yourself? Like, I didn't even have to ask you
00:39:18 --> 00:39:22 that question because you, like, fully offered it up, which is something that
00:39:22 --> 00:39:23 I would normally have said to you.
00:39:23 --> 00:39:28 If I heard you going in a direction that did not seem like a good direction
00:39:28 --> 00:39:31 mentally, I would have said to you, and you know this because I've said this
00:39:31 --> 00:39:34 to you before, like, are you thinking of taking your life?
00:39:34 --> 00:39:38 Are you thinking of harming yourself? Have you done anything to harm yourself?
00:39:38 --> 00:39:40 But you've already told me that, which I'm grateful for.
00:39:41 --> 00:39:47 And i think that i think that's the message here is that we have to have these
00:39:47 --> 00:39:50 conversations we as the people who are struggling with something,
00:39:51 --> 00:39:55 need to push past our fear of saying it out loud and the people who are receiving
00:39:55 --> 00:39:59 it need to push past our fear of like oh shit what do i do with what i just heard,
00:40:00 --> 00:40:04 yeah the uncomfortable that i'm being uncomfortable in that because it is yeah
00:40:04 --> 00:40:08 yeah even as a trained crisis counselor it can be uncomfortable to hear those
00:40:08 --> 00:40:11 words come out of somebody's mouth, especially when you love them.
00:40:11 --> 00:40:17 Well, that's the thing. That's the thing. And for me, being on Crisis Lifelines
00:40:17 --> 00:40:21 the way that I am, I don't know the people I'm talking to.
00:40:21 --> 00:40:23 I care about them. I care about whoever I'm talking to in the moment.
00:40:23 --> 00:40:26 I care about that person. And I almost always find a way to say,
00:40:26 --> 00:40:28 look, I just want to keep you safe. That's my priority right now.
00:40:28 --> 00:40:30 You are my priority right now.
00:40:31 --> 00:40:33 But it's next level when I'm talking
00:40:33 --> 00:40:37 to somebody that I know and have a relationship with and that I love and,
00:40:38 --> 00:40:42 yeah I mean just because I do this every day doesn't mean that I'm not second
00:40:42 --> 00:40:45 guessing what I'm saying to you right now or being very intentional about what
00:40:45 --> 00:40:50 I'm saying or are a little bit afraid at times like I'll be the first one to be like,
00:40:50 --> 00:40:56 when you started sharing I was like oh shit okay I did not know that we were
00:40:56 --> 00:40:59 in this place right now and you know.
00:41:01 --> 00:41:05 I just, in that moment, was like, okay, I'm here for it. Like,
00:41:05 --> 00:41:07 wherever we go right now, we're going together.
00:41:08 --> 00:41:11 So. And welcome to my life. I know.
00:41:11 --> 00:41:15 I know. I know. And I know you're laughing because you're like, son of a bitch.
00:41:15 --> 00:41:20 It is. My life is so unpredictable. Like, I could have, and I used to,
00:41:21 --> 00:41:24 I used to have my life so planned out to a T.
00:41:25 --> 00:41:30 Didn't we all? I finally, you know, within the last few years,
00:41:30 --> 00:41:32 I'm just like, I'm done planning.
00:41:32 --> 00:41:39 Whatever happens, happens. We'll just see how the day goes. Look, okay, what is it?
00:41:40 --> 00:41:47 It's a, I think it's a Chinese proverb that, or maybe, no, maybe it's the Buddha,
00:41:48 --> 00:41:52 who said, you know, you can't live in the past. You can't live in the future.
00:41:52 --> 00:41:54 The only moment that you're actually in is now.
00:41:55 --> 00:42:01 And so it's true i mean we can we can we the other expression is you know man
00:42:01 --> 00:42:07 plans god laughs we don't have control we we just don't all we can do is respond,
00:42:08 --> 00:42:09 to what happens around us and,
00:42:10 --> 00:42:14 that's the irony is that we all think you know oh yeah i got the whole thing
00:42:14 --> 00:42:20 laid out i get it all planned and then the universe is like nope no you don't fit right right,
00:42:20 --> 00:42:27 so okay as as we kind of wrap up this conversation you now have 988 on the brain,
00:42:29 --> 00:42:35 you know that my number is never ever far away from your fingertips you are
00:42:35 --> 00:42:38 in my favorites yeah thanks you're my favorite too so,
00:42:40 --> 00:42:44 you know that you needed to ground yourself which you did you needed to think
00:42:44 --> 00:42:48 about the things in your life that fill you up that fill your cup which you
00:42:48 --> 00:42:53 did are you feeling those feelings now that you were feeling like in the middle
00:42:53 --> 00:42:55 of the night right now? No.
00:42:55 --> 00:42:57 No, it's very much of...
00:43:00 --> 00:43:08 It's learning to realize that those thoughts are coming from up here, your ego mind.
00:43:08 --> 00:43:15 And learning to shift down into your heart space and actually just like taking
00:43:15 --> 00:43:19 a minute to listen and just be.
00:43:19 --> 00:43:25 And when I actually move down into my heart space, a whole other voice starts talking.
00:43:26 --> 00:43:30 And it's a much, it's a nicer person that lives there. I'll say that.
00:43:30 --> 00:43:33 Well, I love how you just explained that. That was actually beautiful,
00:43:33 --> 00:43:38 and I love that that happens for you, and I love that you can access that and
00:43:38 --> 00:43:41 make that kind of transition from a place of,
00:43:42 --> 00:43:46 being kind of out of control of your thoughts to being able to go to a place
00:43:46 --> 00:43:50 inside yourself where you're more tender with yourself.
00:43:50 --> 00:43:52 Mm-hmm. I love that.
00:43:53 --> 00:43:59 And it was interesting because as I was going through that process and I was
00:43:59 --> 00:44:02 trying to find and I've been learning about emotions because.
00:44:04 --> 00:44:08 And learning to actually feel my emotions because I have learned so much about
00:44:08 --> 00:44:11 trauma and all the different things in the psychological versions.
00:44:11 --> 00:44:14 I've learned the psychological aspect of it.
00:44:14 --> 00:44:16 I've intellectualized a lot.
00:44:17 --> 00:44:21 And instead of being present in my body with the sensation or the feelings.
00:44:22 --> 00:44:26 So that's something I'm actively working on is when something comes up for me,
00:44:27 --> 00:44:29 where does it feel in my body?
00:44:29 --> 00:44:37 What does it feel like? How does it feel? and allowing your body to actually fill that sensation.
00:44:37 --> 00:44:42 And you only need about 45 to 90 seconds according to the research to fill that
00:44:42 --> 00:44:44 emotion and for it to pass.
00:44:44 --> 00:44:50 And what you're doing is actually closing the loop on the said emotion because
00:44:50 --> 00:44:52 emotions are feelings. Yeah, yeah.
00:44:52 --> 00:44:56 And so I did and I went through this kind of little thought process of,
00:44:56 --> 00:45:00 okay, what am I feeling when I was sitting on the grass and I was like,
00:45:01 --> 00:45:06 I felt like I, I wasn't enough and I was afraid and it was like okay who was
00:45:06 --> 00:45:12 feeling that and it was three-year-old me helpless three-year-old me because
00:45:12 --> 00:45:13 that's when the abuse started.
00:45:15 --> 00:45:21 And and and so it like act in it just like visualizing in my mind that I'm sitting
00:45:21 --> 00:45:23 there with three-year-old me,
00:45:24 --> 00:45:27 and hugging her and reminding her that she's okay and she's enough and she's
00:45:27 --> 00:45:32 safe that's pretty powerful stuff you know Yeah. You realize that, don't you?
00:45:33 --> 00:45:38 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And when I did that, I felt tremendously better.
00:45:39 --> 00:45:42 Really? I did. Good. Well, you know what?
00:45:43 --> 00:45:50 We do, I think, have the power to choose, not all the time, not effectively every time,
00:45:51 --> 00:45:54 but we have more capacity than we give ourselves credit for,
00:45:55 --> 00:46:00 for being able to pick and choose how we act and react.
00:46:01 --> 00:46:06 We can't control what comes at us, but we can control how we receive it.
00:46:06 --> 00:46:11 And that could be someone being a dick to us, like on the highway,
00:46:11 --> 00:46:14 and you don't want to run them off the road.
00:46:14 --> 00:46:21 And it can be your own emotions hijacking your brain, making you feel like you
00:46:21 --> 00:46:22 don't want to be here anymore.
00:46:22 --> 00:46:26 And then you can do what you did, which is to kind of step outside yourself
00:46:26 --> 00:46:31 and put yourself in a position where you're choosing to look at things from
00:46:31 --> 00:46:36 a different angle and almost counsel your younger self, your inner child.
00:46:37 --> 00:46:40 And you did that. And I think that's pretty extraordinary. Yeah.
00:46:40 --> 00:46:46 So, I mean, you talk about like learning to what I choose to do with said trauma.
00:46:47 --> 00:46:53 And I absolutely know that there are ways that I can rewire the neural pathways.
00:46:53 --> 00:46:57 There's a thousand different ways that you can do that. And that is something
00:46:57 --> 00:47:01 that I do try to put into practice as much as I can remember to.
00:47:02 --> 00:47:05 And that's how, you know, we can make a difference for ourselves.
00:47:05 --> 00:47:12 And those that we're trying to help because a lot of us have somebody in our
00:47:12 --> 00:47:16 lives that we know personally that is struggling with their own mental health.
00:47:17 --> 00:47:24 And I do have somebody that I love more than life itself and I'm not gonna say
00:47:24 --> 00:47:31 who it is, and so I get to choose to help that person and also help myself.
00:47:32 --> 00:47:36 You know what I mean? So I always try to put myself in other people's shoes as well.
00:47:36 --> 00:47:41 So what I'm getting at is you have the opportunity to be on both sides of it
00:47:41 --> 00:47:42 if you'll allow yourself to be.
00:47:42 --> 00:47:44 Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well said. I agree.
00:47:45 --> 00:47:54 I agree. Well, this was a heck of a suicide prevention month first episode of the season.
00:47:55 --> 00:47:59 What Lisa's not telling you is she had a nice little flow chart of how the episode
00:47:59 --> 00:48:02 was supposed to go. I had my bullet points.
00:48:02 --> 00:48:11 I threw just a whole ball of grenade into said flow of episode.
00:48:11 --> 00:48:13 Hey, look at it.
00:48:15 --> 00:48:19 This is what we're here. While I obviously wish you were not feeling the way
00:48:19 --> 00:48:20 that you're feeling, but...
00:48:21 --> 00:48:24 I'm always grateful when I know you're being honest with me,
00:48:25 --> 00:48:28 whether we're just like on a normal phone call just to each other or we're actually
00:48:29 --> 00:48:32 recording an episode. Like, I don't care how it happens. I'm just glad that
00:48:32 --> 00:48:35 I know because if I don't know something's wrong, I can't help.
00:48:36 --> 00:48:40 And that's also the essence of what we're talking about. So.
00:48:42 --> 00:48:48 Here's where we are. That's where we started season six and where we are helping
00:48:48 --> 00:48:51 to kick off Suicide Prevention Month with a very,
00:48:51 --> 00:48:58 real, raw, real-time conversation about one of us not being okay right now and
00:48:58 --> 00:48:59 what do you do about that?
00:48:59 --> 00:49:04 And that conversation that you and I are coming off of right now for the last
00:49:04 --> 00:49:10 50 minutes, it sits underneath every single thing that you and I do. Everything.
00:49:10 --> 00:49:18 And that is one of the threads that underlines everything that we do on this
00:49:18 --> 00:49:21 podcast. We talk about grief, We talk about mental health and trauma and loss
00:49:21 --> 00:49:23 and survival and suicide.
00:49:23 --> 00:49:27 And that's what we're all surviving. So, yeah.
00:49:29 --> 00:49:35 This is the beginning of what I think will be our best, deepest,
00:49:36 --> 00:49:37 most impactful season yet.
00:49:38 --> 00:49:41 I can't wait to dive into this with you.
00:49:41 --> 00:49:46 I am so grateful that you were honest and that you shared how you really are.
00:49:47 --> 00:49:51 Because I think that vulnerability and that honesty is something that a lot
00:49:51 --> 00:49:52 of people can connect with.
00:49:53 --> 00:49:57 And they can take what you've said and how you've said it and apply it to their
00:49:57 --> 00:49:58 own situation if they're not okay.
00:49:58 --> 00:50:03 And they'll know with a little bit more certainty what to maybe do or what to
00:50:03 --> 00:50:05 try or who to go to to help.
00:50:05 --> 00:50:09 So I can't honestly think of a better conversation to start off this season
00:50:09 --> 00:50:12 and to kind of kick off Suicide Prevention Month.
00:50:12 --> 00:50:17 So as always, I love and appreciate you for being just who you are and being
00:50:17 --> 00:50:23 so honest and doing it from a place of just wanting to help the people around
00:50:23 --> 00:50:25 you. So I love you and I appreciate you.
00:50:26 --> 00:50:30 And if I could end this episode saying one thing, it's to remind those that
00:50:30 --> 00:50:36 are listening that you are enough and you are loved. And even if you don't feel
00:50:36 --> 00:50:40 loved by those around you, love yourself.
00:50:41 --> 00:50:46 And I'm going to say one last thing. I'm going to say all those things to you.
00:50:46 --> 00:50:50 Because you are seen and heard and loved and valued and appreciated.
00:50:51 --> 00:50:53 And I'm grateful you're here and that we're doing this together.
00:50:53 --> 00:50:58 So we'll be back here next week doing it all over again, and I can't wait.
00:50:59 --> 00:51:05 So I'll keep surviving if you do. Deal? I will. Okay. Love you. Love you too.
00:51:07 --> 00:51:10 Thanks so much for listening and for being part of the Survivors community.
00:51:11 --> 00:51:15 No matter where you are in your story, you're not alone and you're definitely
00:51:15 --> 00:51:19 not broken. Healing takes time and it looks different for everyone.
00:51:19 --> 00:51:24 The fact that you're still here and still trying means you're already doing the hard work.
00:51:24 --> 00:51:28 If something in today's conversation resonated with you, please share it with
00:51:28 --> 00:51:30 someone who might need to hear it too.
00:51:30 --> 00:51:35 That's how we keep these conversations going and remind each other that there's always hope.
00:51:36 --> 00:51:39 And if you or someone you know is struggling please remember help is always
00:51:39 --> 00:51:45 out there you can call or text 988 anytime to reach a trained crisis counselor like me
00:51:45 --> 00:51:49 and for more mental health resources, tools treatment options and content to
00:51:49 --> 00:51:52 support your mental health, visit thehelphub.co,
00:51:53 --> 00:51:56 we're so grateful you're part of the Survivors family and we'll be back next
00:51:56 --> 00:52:00 week with another honest conversation about life after the hardest things until
00:52:00 --> 00:52:04 then, take care of yourself and your people and keep surviving.