*WARNING: This podcast mentions suicide, sexual abuse & trauma and may be triggering.
Episode Summary
In the Season 4 Recap, Lisa & Natasha blast through the season’s standout moments — from compound grief to breaking mental health taboos, body-centered trauma, women and suicide, and powerful guest interviews with family members and long-time friends.
We also mark personal milestones: honest talks about suicidal ideation, a 100-pound weight-loss journey, and the launch of Lisa's memoir about surviving suicide loss, Surviving: Finding Hope After Suicide Loss (Familius Books). Resources, crisis guidance, and invitations to keep the conversation going are shared throughout. Thanks for being part of the Survivors community — keep surviving with us.
Episode Sponsored by The HelpHUB™
Struggling with your mental health? Feeling lost, overwhelmed, or just alone? Well, you're not. Welcome to The HelpHUB™—your online destination for mental health resources, treatment options, content, and tools to help meet you exactly where you are in the moment. Visit TheHelpHUB.co to get started.
Topics
- Different ways of surviving grief and trauma
- The impact of collective grief and societal division
- Breaking mental health taboos and sharing personal struggles
- The power of storytelling and community in healing
Chapters
00:00 Season Four Recap Introduction 02:30 Exploring Different Types of Survival 03:56 The Weight of the World: Collective Grief 07:36 Understanding Compound Grief 10:37 Breaking Mental Health Taboos 14:04 The Impact of Stress on the Body 16:20 Women and Suicide: A Critical Conversation 19:08 Personal Stories of Loss and Healing 21:59 Surviving Trauma: Caleb's Story 24:14 Weight Loss as a Form of Survival 27:36 The Lasting Changes of Grief 29:05 Launching a Book on Suicide Loss 31:46 Navigating Mother's Day and Mental Health Awareness 34:10 Final Reflections and Looking Ahead to Season FiveMental Health Resources
- If you or someone you know is struggling, please call 988 for help.
- The Survivors Podcast Website – https://thesurvivors.net/
- The HelpHUB™ – Mental health resources, tools, and support networks – https://www.thehelphub.co/
- National Domestic Violence Hotline – Call 1-800-799-SAFE (7223)
- Surviving: Finding Hope After Suicide Loss (Familius Books)
Follow & Connect With Us
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See you next week! In the meantime, keep surviving.
00:00:00 --> 00:00:04 Hey friends, before we dive into this week's episode, just a heads up.
00:00:04 --> 00:00:08 Our podcast talks about suicide, sexual abuse, and other trauma,
00:00:08 --> 00:00:12 and some of what you hear may be triggering. So please listen with care.
00:00:13 --> 00:00:18 This is The Survivors, real stories, raw conversations, and the truth about
00:00:18 --> 00:00:21 what it means to keep going after the hardest things.
00:00:21 --> 00:00:24 We're so glad you're here. Let's keep surviving together.
00:00:26 --> 00:00:35 So we have made it to the season four recap episode, and I am blown away because
00:00:35 --> 00:00:40 didn't we just start this whole season a minute ago? I don't know. It feels a little fast.
00:00:40 --> 00:00:44 Didn't we just meet? I swear. A minute ago.
00:00:44 --> 00:00:48 Yeah, I know. It feels... I talk to you more than I talk to almost anybody except
00:00:48 --> 00:00:54 Dave and my kids, but I love that because I love you, So it works. I'm totally satisfied.
00:00:55 --> 00:00:58 The feeling's mutual, my friend. I know. I appreciate that.
00:00:58 --> 00:01:03 You look very tan, by the way. My kid's been in sports, softball, baseball.
00:01:03 --> 00:01:07 I spend a lot, you know, a lot of time out in the sun. Mm-hmm.
00:01:07 --> 00:01:09 Mm-hmm. Yeah, I'm looking a little peaked.
00:01:09 --> 00:01:12 I'm looking at my little square here. I'm not looking so hot right now.
00:01:13 --> 00:01:15 But it's okay. We'll forge on. You're looking a little pasty.
00:01:15 --> 00:01:17 It's all right. Whatever. I'll use the filter.
00:01:17 --> 00:01:20 You live in a harbor town. Why do you not? Why are you not more tan?
00:01:20 --> 00:01:24 Because I'm editing our videos all day, every day. That's why.
00:01:24 --> 00:01:26 That's what you need to know about my dear friend, Lisa, here.
00:01:26 --> 00:01:28 She does all the back-end work.
00:01:28 --> 00:01:31 I just show up and talk. She does all the work behind the scenes.
00:01:31 --> 00:01:32 You just show up and look pretty.
00:01:33 --> 00:01:36 I got the life here. Yeah. And I post on her TikTok.
00:01:37 --> 00:01:41 Yeah. No, that's very important work. Very important work. All right.
00:01:41 --> 00:01:44 So this is episode 15. Yeah.
00:01:44 --> 00:01:48 Season four. We're just going to blast through and recap.
00:01:49 --> 00:01:53 And this is like the spark notes of the Survivor season four.
00:01:54 --> 00:02:00 We give you every episode in two minutes or less. So when we started the season
00:02:00 --> 00:02:06 of the Survivors, we didn't just set out this season. We did not just set out
00:02:06 --> 00:02:07 to have conversations with the two of us.
00:02:07 --> 00:02:11 We've been really committed to trying to bring other voices into the podcast.
00:02:11 --> 00:02:16 And we did that, I think, really successfully this season.
00:02:16 --> 00:02:21 We'll talk about those particular episodes later, but we set out what it means
00:02:21 --> 00:02:24 to survive, but not just our own survival.
00:02:24 --> 00:02:28 We brought other people in and we talked about what other people's experiences were like too.
00:02:28 --> 00:02:32 And we talked about, of course, all the things we always talk about,
00:02:32 --> 00:02:38 which is grief and loss and trauma and change and all those moving parts.
00:02:39 --> 00:02:43 And now that we're at the end of season four, I think for me,
00:02:44 --> 00:02:47 I don't know about you, but I think for me, what stands out the most is that
00:02:47 --> 00:02:49 surviving does not look one way.
00:02:49 --> 00:02:56 There is not one kind of survival. There are so many different ways that we can survive.
00:02:56 --> 00:03:01 And we've shared a lot of those different types of stories this season.
00:03:02 --> 00:03:05 I feel like it was a really layered season. We started pretty big.
00:03:05 --> 00:03:07 Do you remember what we started with?
00:03:07 --> 00:03:13 With kind of the weight of the world that we're all living in and we just kind
00:03:13 --> 00:03:15 of narrowed in from there.
00:03:15 --> 00:03:21 So let's go back. Let's start talking about episode one.
00:03:21 --> 00:03:24 At the beginning, we talked about something that I think was on everybody's
00:03:24 --> 00:03:28 mind and continues to be on everybody's mind. And that is the way that everybody
00:03:28 --> 00:03:29 was feeling We'll see you next time.
00:03:29 --> 00:03:34 About the world that we're living in right now, like this overwhelming sense
00:03:34 --> 00:03:39 of, like, is dread too strong of a word in this moment?
00:03:39 --> 00:03:46 Like, dread and fear, and I think a lot of people are depressed.
00:03:47 --> 00:03:52 We're kind of surviving the weight of a really heavy world right now.
00:03:52 --> 00:03:55 And you and I realized and talked at
00:03:55 --> 00:03:58 length about the fact that people are not just stressed
00:03:58 --> 00:04:01 like I never in my lifetime have experienced a
00:04:01 --> 00:04:07 period of time in history like this where it's like politically morally emotionally
00:04:07 --> 00:04:15 spiritually like like everyone's surviving by a thread I feel like and it's
00:04:15 --> 00:04:21 not just us it's not just this country it's globally and it's affected everybody Thank you, everybody.
00:04:22 --> 00:04:28 It was like a level of exhaustion that just no amount of sleep could fix or
00:04:28 --> 00:04:31 can fix. I mean, because we're still feeling it.
00:04:32 --> 00:04:36 You know, there's so much going on in the world. And it's just an incredibly
00:04:36 --> 00:04:39 difficult time for so many people.
00:04:39 --> 00:04:43 I just, I don't know of any one person where like, yeah, everything's good.
00:04:44 --> 00:04:45 Smooth sailing or whatever.
00:04:45 --> 00:04:49 Everybody's just dealing with something. something you
00:04:49 --> 00:04:52 know and i talked about this with a dear friend where you know you're dealing
00:04:52 --> 00:04:57 with you know say for example the stress of you know some work stuff or whatever
00:04:57 --> 00:05:01 and you could be having you can have a co-worker a couple cubes down their kids
00:05:01 --> 00:05:06 are in the hospital with cancer you know what i mean like you never know from
00:05:06 --> 00:05:09 day to day who the next person over is just,
00:05:10 --> 00:05:14 fighting for their life just to get through the day because they've got the
00:05:14 --> 00:05:15 weight of the world on them.
00:05:16 --> 00:05:21 And so it's that, but it's also the fact that we've all got this collective
00:05:21 --> 00:05:28 grief of what's happening to, in our case, our country, our political system,
00:05:28 --> 00:05:31 our divided country.
00:05:31 --> 00:05:34 People are on one side, it seems, or the other.
00:05:35 --> 00:05:42 And that's layered on top of everybody's stuff, Everybody's day-to-day stuff.
00:05:43 --> 00:05:47 And that's torn people, you know, families apart. You know, when there's a differing,
00:05:47 --> 00:05:52 I think I remember you in this episode where you were somebody that you loved
00:05:52 --> 00:05:55 dearly had mentioned their political stance on something and it just shifted.
00:05:56 --> 00:06:01 Like, wow, I don't know that I can continue having a safe relationship with
00:06:01 --> 00:06:03 you with this, your perspective.
00:06:04 --> 00:06:07 Well, and it was the way that the person shared their perspective.
00:06:07 --> 00:06:13 It was the hostility that came out of this person. I never would have suspected it.
00:06:13 --> 00:06:18 It was such a benign, innocuous, like, catch up, haven't seen you in ages, how are you?
00:06:18 --> 00:06:26 And then out of nowhere, this person was just spewing politics in a way that was so...
00:06:27 --> 00:06:34 It's completely out of context. And I was really not only shocked,
00:06:34 --> 00:06:38 but scared and sad at the same time.
00:06:38 --> 00:06:42 And I really did my best to just say, let's let's keep like,
00:06:42 --> 00:06:47 let's agree to disagree and step out of that conversation. And this person did not want to let go.
00:06:47 --> 00:06:51 They were like a pit bull on my leg. And it just made me realize in that moment,
00:06:51 --> 00:06:54 I'm glad you brought that up because it made me realize in that moment that
00:06:54 --> 00:06:57 we are living in a very, very divided and scary world.
00:06:58 --> 00:07:03 And it's hard. So that was the way we kicked off the whole season,
00:07:03 --> 00:07:06 which I actually think, ironically, unfortunately, that was the way to kick
00:07:06 --> 00:07:09 off the season because it was on everybody's minds and still is.
00:07:09 --> 00:07:13 So then we you
00:07:13 --> 00:07:16 know we we rolled into season two i'm
00:07:16 --> 00:07:20 sorry into episode two and that was
00:07:20 --> 00:07:23 all about compound grief which you you and
00:07:23 --> 00:07:27 i both but you even more so have a lot of
00:07:27 --> 00:07:30 experience with when grief is just layered and
00:07:30 --> 00:07:34 layered and stacked until your system is just completely
00:07:34 --> 00:07:37 maxed out and you can't function
00:07:37 --> 00:07:42 under the weight of it you actually offered a lot of insight into what that's
00:07:42 --> 00:07:48 like because of what you've dealt with in your life can you give the two-second
00:07:48 --> 00:07:50 version of what compound grief
00:07:50 --> 00:07:56 means to you well i've lost five brothers to suicide my dad to cancer.
00:07:57 --> 00:08:01 You know those are the the deaths you know it's it's.
00:08:02 --> 00:08:07 Grief of a lost childhood that I didn't get to have because I was sexually abused
00:08:07 --> 00:08:12 as a toddler, basically, being raised in a cult, you know, and,
00:08:12 --> 00:08:16 you know, they're so multifaceted.
00:08:16 --> 00:08:19 And the older I get, it's so weird how I don't,
00:08:19 --> 00:08:24 it's like the more things happen and you feel like you get stronger with time,
00:08:24 --> 00:08:32 but it's almost as if the older I get, the less capacity I have because the weight is so much.
00:08:32 --> 00:08:37 You know, and my husband and I were talking the other night and he told me,
00:08:37 --> 00:08:42 he said, sometimes I don't know how it is that you carry the weight of what you do.
00:08:45 --> 00:08:51 And I commend you for carrying through and remaining as positive as you do.
00:08:52 --> 00:08:55 Through it all and it's a lot it is
00:08:55 --> 00:08:59 a lot for any one human to live
00:08:59 --> 00:09:02 underneath the weight of all that so that that was a
00:09:02 --> 00:09:05 powerful conversation for me just to in the context
00:09:05 --> 00:09:07 of understanding what it must feel like to live underneath
00:09:07 --> 00:09:13 that so i yeah and you had just lost your your your mother-in-law my mother-in-law
00:09:13 --> 00:09:22 yeah yeah and and you know we we were dealing with moving both sets of parents
00:09:22 --> 00:09:25 into independent living communities,
00:09:25 --> 00:09:28 and then my mother-in-law got sick, and it was, you know,
00:09:28 --> 00:09:33 a lot of stress, a lot of grief in a very short period of time.
00:09:33 --> 00:09:38 So, yeah, I mean, it was an important conversation to have because it doesn't
00:09:38 --> 00:09:43 necessarily just mean the grief of losing a human that you love.
00:09:43 --> 00:09:47 Like you said, it could be the grief of a lost childhood or an ended relationship
00:09:47 --> 00:09:53 or grieving a job that you lost or you had to leave a friendship or all of those
00:09:53 --> 00:09:55 things. So it was an important conversation to have.
00:09:55 --> 00:10:02 And from that, we moved into talking about, we talked a lot about breaking mental
00:10:02 --> 00:10:07 health taboos, like saying the things that we're not supposed to say because.
00:10:08 --> 00:10:12 Silence just does not help us survive at all.
00:10:12 --> 00:10:15 We've talked about that a lot. It isolates us. Was that, I feel like that was the episode.
00:10:16 --> 00:10:23 Was that the episode where you talked about what was going on with you?
00:10:23 --> 00:10:29 Was that the episode? No, it was episode three where we talked about breaking mental health taboos.
00:10:29 --> 00:10:33 Yeah, that's what I just said. Oh, okay. Sorry. That's what I just said, yeah. Yeah.
00:10:33 --> 00:10:39 And where I opened up about how I had been having suicidal ideations and,
00:10:39 --> 00:10:43 you know, and I said this to George,
00:10:44 --> 00:10:51 there is, there are very few days in my life where the thought doesn't pass through my head.
00:10:51 --> 00:10:55 Just a singular thought sometimes what
00:10:55 --> 00:10:59 is the thought you feel like sharing it of that
00:10:59 --> 00:11:05 life would be that i'm tired yeah yeah and i i don't know that i have the strength
00:11:05 --> 00:11:13 to carry on and live this life that i would just like to rest and yeah by and
00:11:13 --> 00:11:19 rest by death because that is the only way that I know how that I could ever fully, truly rest.
00:11:19 --> 00:11:26 And there are very few days where something along those lines doesn't pass through
00:11:26 --> 00:11:28 my head. And that's passive ideation.
00:11:28 --> 00:11:32 That is passive ideation where you don't have a plan and you don't have a timeline,
00:11:32 --> 00:11:35 but you have those fleeting thoughts.
00:11:35 --> 00:11:41 And I think it was such a powerful, one of the most powerful episodes that you
00:11:41 --> 00:11:48 and I have ever recorded, because as I mentioned before, during that episode,
00:11:48 --> 00:11:53 I had no idea in that moment at that time when you and I were recording that
00:11:53 --> 00:11:59 episode live together, I had no idea that you were in the place that you were in.
00:11:59 --> 00:12:02 I knew that you had been, you know, struggling with some things and,
00:12:02 --> 00:12:07 you know, that you had been, you know, kind of exhausted emotionally and physically
00:12:07 --> 00:12:08 and all that, but I had no idea.
00:12:08 --> 00:12:16 So that was a very, very big surprise to me that you were where you actually were emotionally. And.
00:12:17 --> 00:12:21 The temptation to kind of hit the pause button and take you offline and be like,
00:12:21 --> 00:12:27 okay, let's talk about this offline. That was a very real consideration in my brain at that time.
00:12:27 --> 00:12:32 But then you and I both kind of, I feel like we were connected in that moment.
00:12:33 --> 00:12:37 And we're both like, nope, we need to have this conversation right here and now.
00:12:37 --> 00:12:41 Because not only was it helpful for you, but I think it was helpful for other
00:12:41 --> 00:12:45 people hearing it to be like, okay, this is really happening.
00:12:45 --> 00:12:47 And people, this is happening to people everywhere.
00:12:47 --> 00:12:51 And we need to be able to talk about the taboo things out in the open,
00:12:52 --> 00:12:56 even the hard, scary, ugly ones, to create more space.
00:12:56 --> 00:12:59 The more we do it, the more space is created to keep doing it.
00:12:59 --> 00:13:04 So that was unbelievably brave of you to have that conversation.
00:13:05 --> 00:13:09 And I'm just grateful it was the conversation you needed to have in that moment.
00:13:09 --> 00:13:13 Well, thank you, most importantly, though, for holding that space for me.
00:13:14 --> 00:13:21 You know, I don't know a lot of people that are able to hold that space for
00:13:21 --> 00:13:25 me very well, because, you know, again, I have been struggling with suicidal
00:13:25 --> 00:13:27 thoughts since I was 11 years old.
00:13:27 --> 00:13:34 So that's the vast majority of my life, as I am now approaching my 40th birthday.
00:13:35 --> 00:13:38 41st birthday. Yeah, I was going to say, you're already 40. Don't try and...
00:13:38 --> 00:13:40 Rewind the clock there, dear.
00:13:41 --> 00:13:45 All right. So then we jumped into episode five, which was also a really powerful
00:13:45 --> 00:13:49 conversation. It was about women, specifically women.
00:13:49 --> 00:13:55 And you're skipping an episode, episode four, body control and coping. Did I?
00:13:55 --> 00:13:58 You're so right. How lots and trauma show up physically through sleep,
00:13:58 --> 00:14:00 food habits, daily habits, and gentle ways to regulate.
00:14:01 --> 00:14:03 I just deleted an entire episode.
00:14:03 --> 00:14:07 Didn't I? Look at that. Yeah, you did. Oh my God. Thank God for you keeping
00:14:07 --> 00:14:11 me honest and on track. Wow, I shouldn't even be, I should just quit.
00:14:12 --> 00:14:15 No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. You're right.
00:14:15 --> 00:14:20 We talked about how all of this shows up in the body because survival is not,
00:14:21 --> 00:14:28 an emotional thing. It is very, very much a physical thing that can take a huge
00:14:28 --> 00:14:35 toll on us in ways that we know and can see and in ways that we don't know.
00:14:35 --> 00:14:37 I mean, we lose sleep and we're irritable.
00:14:37 --> 00:14:40 We lose appetite or we binge.
00:14:40 --> 00:14:46 You know, it affects our habits. So the bottom line is that our bodies keep the score.
00:14:47 --> 00:14:52 And we had a really powerful conversation about What that often looks like and
00:14:52 --> 00:15:00 why we need to be, like you always say it, we need to be listening to our bodies all the time.
00:15:00 --> 00:15:04 And, you know, there's a tremendous amount of research coming out about actually
00:15:04 --> 00:15:12 the fascia, which is the, it's a layer between our muscles and our skin, but it's called fascia.
00:15:12 --> 00:15:17 And that is where our emotional, like, dysregulation is stored.
00:15:18 --> 00:15:23 Do some research on it, but that's where it's all stored. And different traumas
00:15:23 --> 00:15:25 can store in different parts of your body.
00:15:25 --> 00:15:28 Yeah, I've been listening to some podcasts and doing some research on it.
00:15:28 --> 00:15:29 It's pretty fascinating stuff.
00:15:30 --> 00:15:33 All right, now you're going to have to make me listen and do my own research too.
00:15:33 --> 00:15:38 Well, and also there's a great YouTube channel called The Human Garage.
00:15:40 --> 00:15:43 And he goes through like these physical like
00:15:43 --> 00:15:47 movements that you can do specifically for
00:15:47 --> 00:15:50 your fascia to release said trauma
00:15:50 --> 00:15:54 and they have like workshops and things that you can do but they do have a youtube
00:15:54 --> 00:15:57 channel where you can you know because who's got thousands of dollars to go
00:15:57 --> 00:16:02 to a retreat right so let's get some stuff for free off youtube okay i'm all
00:16:02 --> 00:16:06 for it i'm all for it the human garage all right we'll try and remember to put
00:16:06 --> 00:16:10 that in the show notes as well So then, episode five,
00:16:10 --> 00:16:12 was women and suicide.
00:16:13 --> 00:16:17 And that was a really important conversation, I think, because we don't often
00:16:17 --> 00:16:19 talk just specifically.
00:16:19 --> 00:16:24 Obviously, you and I are women and we're moms and we work. And we talked an
00:16:24 --> 00:16:29 awful lot about the kinds of stress that women are under,
00:16:29 --> 00:16:34 that invisible, we talked a lot about that invisible load that our families
00:16:34 --> 00:16:39 don't often see that we're lifting all the time.
00:16:39 --> 00:16:43 And the emotional labor that we're constantly dealing with and that pressure
00:16:43 --> 00:16:50 to hold everything together and what that's like, what surviving that is like.
00:16:50 --> 00:16:54 Because holding everybody up, you know, as well as I do, like we're both moms,
00:16:54 --> 00:16:56 holding everybody else up while
00:16:56 --> 00:17:01 we are barely standing up ourselves is a really tough position to be in.
00:17:02 --> 00:17:06 Mm-hmm. And being, you know, for the first time really in my,
00:17:06 --> 00:17:10 being a working mom, damn. That is hard.
00:17:11 --> 00:17:15 You know, I just, being a full-time mother is hard too, but juggling,
00:17:16 --> 00:17:21 trying to keep the home and the kids and going to work, and there's just not
00:17:21 --> 00:17:23 a lot left at the end of the day. No.
00:17:24 --> 00:17:30 You know, and then the single mothers out there, I mean, just mad respect, you know, but I mean,
00:17:31 --> 00:17:36 women are superheroes, and I don't care who hears that, but women are superheroes
00:17:36 --> 00:17:40 because we do a hell of a lot to hold this world together.
00:17:40 --> 00:17:43 And we are not given enough recognition for it.
00:17:43 --> 00:17:47 Hey, it's Lisa Sugarman, co-host of the Survivors and founder of The Help Hub.
00:17:47 --> 00:17:50 If you're listening right now and you're not okay,
00:17:50 --> 00:17:54 If you're feeling overwhelmed, stuck, or like you're carrying more than you
00:17:54 --> 00:17:57 can handle, please know you don't have to go through it alone.
00:17:58 --> 00:18:05 You can call or text 988 or chat online at 988lifeline.org to connect with trained
00:18:05 --> 00:18:08 counselors like me who are there to listen and support you in the moment.
00:18:09 --> 00:18:12 Reaching out is a brave first step, and you owe it to yourself.
00:18:13 --> 00:18:19 Because your life matters, your story matters, and help is always just three numbers away.
00:18:21 --> 00:18:24 Amen. Couldn't agree more. You're right. You're absolutely right.
00:18:25 --> 00:18:31 So speaking of powerful superhuman women, now we talk about episodes six and
00:18:31 --> 00:18:34 seven because we've done a couple of two-parters this season.
00:18:34 --> 00:18:39 Both of those two-parters, we were very lucky doing them with people that I
00:18:39 --> 00:18:43 love very, very much. So the first two-parter, episode six and seven,
00:18:43 --> 00:18:47 we welcomed my mom on the pod for the very first time.
00:18:48 --> 00:18:52 That was a really super personal conversation for me. You got to meet her for
00:18:52 --> 00:18:55 the first time, and now you're adopted. Now you're my sister.
00:18:56 --> 00:19:05 And these conversations were just so so meaningful to me because for those who don't know my story,
00:19:05 --> 00:19:10 I lost my dad when I was 10 years old the story I was told by my mom was that
00:19:10 --> 00:19:14 he died of a heart attack he did not I found out 35 years later that he actually
00:19:14 --> 00:19:19 took his life and she and I lived with that version of my father's death which
00:19:19 --> 00:19:24 was not the truth for 35 years and she kept that secret to save me from that pain.
00:19:24 --> 00:19:32 And she sat down with us and she talked in two incredibly deep and candid episodes about all of it,
00:19:32 --> 00:19:39 openly about the day my father died and about the day that secret came out and
00:19:39 --> 00:19:44 about everything that's happened since then. And it's,
00:19:44 --> 00:19:50 It really, to me, was one of the most powerful conversations that we've had
00:19:50 --> 00:19:55 on the podcast, and I was just so grateful for people to get to know her.
00:19:55 --> 00:20:00 She is extraordinary, and I don't just say that because I am so unbelievably
00:20:00 --> 00:20:05 biased because she—I was raised by a single mom, and my mother is superhuman,
00:20:05 --> 00:20:13 and nobody has more respect for her than I do, so it was a joy to have her on this podcast.
00:20:13 --> 00:20:16 And then we slid right into another
00:20:16 --> 00:20:19 beautiful conversation also very
00:20:19 --> 00:20:24 powerful with one of my oldest and dearest friends since we were 12 13 years
00:20:24 --> 00:20:31 old my friend Caleb Powers and Caleb came on the podcast also his first time
00:20:31 --> 00:20:37 not only on the podcast but it was his very first time talking about his story.
00:20:37 --> 00:20:43 And he spent two episodes with us reflecting on a lot of different trauma.
00:20:43 --> 00:20:45 He also has a very, everybody has such a,
00:20:46 --> 00:20:51 such a story, you know? And Caleb's, I was there for Caleb's.
00:20:51 --> 00:20:56 In 1983, when we were in school together, we were best friends,
00:20:56 --> 00:20:58 and his father was a merchant marine,
00:20:58 --> 00:21:07 and he was at sea a lot, and he was lost at sea in a very famous shipwreck called
00:21:07 --> 00:21:09 the SS Marine Electric that went down off the coast of Virginia.
00:21:10 --> 00:21:14 He was the chief engineer on that boat, Richard Powers, and my friend Caleb
00:21:14 --> 00:21:14 was supposed to be on that boat.
00:21:15 --> 00:21:18 He was supposed to go down and spend a weekend with his dad and travel in the boat, the ship.
00:21:19 --> 00:21:24 It's an 800-foot tanker all the way from Virginia to Boston.
00:21:24 --> 00:21:28 And his dad at the very last minute said, Caleb, you can't come because the
00:21:28 --> 00:21:30 weather's going to be terrible and there's no place for you.
00:21:30 --> 00:21:34 And the ship went down. And so Caleb not only lost his father,
00:21:35 --> 00:21:37 but has had to live with the fact that he was supposed to be on that boat too.
00:21:38 --> 00:21:44 And he shared some unbelievably powerful moments from his father being in the
00:21:44 --> 00:21:49 water with other survivors and not making it and saving other crew members and how Caleb's life,
00:21:49 --> 00:21:52 I mean, that was powerful talking about like how his whole life imploded and
00:21:52 --> 00:21:57 he went into rehab and he got clean and sober and has been clean and sober for
00:21:57 --> 00:21:59 40 years and is just a remarkable human now.
00:22:00 --> 00:22:06 And I loved when he shared the part how he had lunch with the person that's
00:22:06 --> 00:22:08 the last person to see his dad alive.
00:22:08 --> 00:22:13 I know. Of all things to have his name, his name is Gene Kelly.
00:22:14 --> 00:22:23 And he is one of the only three, I believe there were 34 men on the boat and three survived.
00:22:24 --> 00:22:28 Caleb's father was not one of them. And at the end, there were five men on a
00:22:28 --> 00:22:32 life ring in freezing cold, like 28-degree temperature water in Virginia.
00:22:33 --> 00:22:36 And this man, Gene Kelly, was with Caleb's dad.
00:22:36 --> 00:22:40 And Caleb's dad was holding a Tankerman's light to shine it in the air as a beacon.
00:22:41 --> 00:22:45 And Caleb's father didn't make it. He passed away and was lost at sea.
00:22:45 --> 00:22:49 And Gene Kelly grabbed that Tankerman's light and shined it in the air.
00:22:49 --> 00:22:51 And the Coast Guard found them because of that.
00:22:52 --> 00:22:56 And Caleb ended up meeting this man and getting to spend time with him.
00:22:57 --> 00:22:59 Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up. That was a really...
00:22:59 --> 00:23:02 So they never recovered his dad's body? No.
00:23:04 --> 00:23:07 Even though it was off the coast? Yeah, it was never recovered.
00:23:07 --> 00:23:10 I never asked him that. I don't, not to my knowledge.
00:23:11 --> 00:23:16 If it was, I never knew that. Yeah, yeah. Big funeral in Boston. It was all over the news.
00:23:16 --> 00:23:22 It was a big deal and it changed. It completely reformed the way that the U.S.
00:23:22 --> 00:23:23 Coast Guard and Navy did.
00:23:25 --> 00:23:28 Handles their safety protocols. It was because of that shipwreck.
00:23:28 --> 00:23:32 So yeah, that was a deep one. That was a deep, heavy, emotional one for me too.
00:23:32 --> 00:23:42 And then we went from there straight into episode 10, which was you.
00:23:42 --> 00:23:47 That was a story about another way that you have survived.
00:23:47 --> 00:23:50 Do you remember what that episode was about yeah losing 100
00:23:50 --> 00:23:54 pounds that's like no no small
00:23:54 --> 00:23:57 feet that's a human that is
00:23:57 --> 00:24:01 a human my 12 year old son doesn't even weigh 100 pounds oh my god you need
00:24:01 --> 00:24:06 to feed that boy more but but i mean yeah on on the surface that was about weight
00:24:06 --> 00:24:13 loss which is so dramatic that you lost 100 pounds but on on you know underneath
00:24:13 --> 00:24:16 the surface that's about survival That's, you know,
00:24:17 --> 00:24:23 that's about protecting yourself and your mental health and wellness because, you know,
00:24:24 --> 00:24:27 your body was not the body that you wanted it to be.
00:24:28 --> 00:24:34 And that affected everything. Well, yeah, and it also, I had to look at it in
00:24:34 --> 00:24:39 ways of what I had been through contributed to gaining that much weight.
00:24:40 --> 00:24:46 And that my body already, because of all of the trauma that I had been to,
00:24:46 --> 00:24:48 it was stacked against me.
00:24:49 --> 00:24:53 Because, you know, people that have experienced one traumatic event,
00:24:53 --> 00:24:56 their lifespan reduces by 20%.
00:24:56 --> 00:25:00 And I've had God knows how many. And
00:25:00 --> 00:25:08 I knew that if I did not make a change That I was not going to live to be very
00:25:08 --> 00:25:14 old And I knew that I had to make some sort of drastic change I was fortunate
00:25:14 --> 00:25:17 that the first 50 pounds came off,
00:25:17 --> 00:25:24 Relatively easy in just cleaning up my diet And getting off some antidepressant
00:25:24 --> 00:25:27 medications That were making me gain weight and.
00:25:28 --> 00:25:33 Endlessly. But then also using some intervention from, you know,
00:25:34 --> 00:25:38 a GLP-1 medication. There's a lot of negative stigma about people using that
00:25:38 --> 00:25:39 medication. And you know what?
00:25:39 --> 00:25:41 That medication is saving people's lives.
00:25:42 --> 00:25:47 And, you know, I use it as a tool. I've been on it for two years now,
00:25:47 --> 00:25:51 and I don't know how long I'll be on it, but I use it as a tool.
00:25:52 --> 00:25:56 And, you know, I have endured enough in my life.
00:25:56 --> 00:26:00 And if I need to use something that will help me not overeat,
00:26:01 --> 00:26:07 because eating is my addiction and that is what I have used to cope with so much shit.
00:26:07 --> 00:26:13 And I'm incredibly grateful for it. Well, I'm incredibly proud of you because
00:26:13 --> 00:26:18 that not only to do that is such a massive feat,
00:26:19 --> 00:26:21 to talk about it. Like, it's very brave to go out there and be like,
00:26:22 --> 00:26:28 hey, look, I, you know, I lost a hundred pounds and I'm on this medication and
00:26:28 --> 00:26:31 I needed to do that for my mental and physical wellness.
00:26:32 --> 00:26:36 Like, that's a big deal. So that was, I was so, so glad that you wanted to share
00:26:36 --> 00:26:38 that. I would think that was a really powerful episode for a lot of people.
00:26:39 --> 00:26:43 Then from there, we hopped to episode 11.
00:26:43 --> 00:26:49 And that episode was, we called it, The Things Grief Changes Forever.
00:26:49 --> 00:26:57 And what we talked a lot about was, you know, once you cross over into that space of now grieving,
00:26:58 --> 00:27:02 we talked about like the before you're that person and then the after when you're
00:27:02 --> 00:27:08 that person and how we essentially become someone very different.
00:27:08 --> 00:27:13 And there is a lot of radical acceptance built into that, where,
00:27:13 --> 00:27:17 you know, we're now surviving grief that will be with us forever,
00:27:18 --> 00:27:21 no matter what happens in our life going forward.
00:27:21 --> 00:27:25 That grief and that loss is always there in one form or another.
00:27:25 --> 00:27:29 And it alters the version of ourself. And we kind of talked about that,
00:27:29 --> 00:27:35 about losing that version of ourselves and kind of having to rebuild and integrate
00:27:35 --> 00:27:37 that loss into the rest of our lives.
00:27:37 --> 00:27:41 And I feel like that was a really powerful conversation because so many people
00:27:41 --> 00:27:46 are affected by so many different kinds of grief that alter their experience
00:27:46 --> 00:27:48 of how they see the world and how they live their life.
00:27:49 --> 00:27:51 So that was, I think that was an important one.
00:27:51 --> 00:27:54 Well, and coming to terms with grief.
00:27:55 --> 00:28:00 The person that you have to become after loss, after whatever,
00:28:00 --> 00:28:04 you know, a traumatic event or whatever, you know, coming to terms and accepting
00:28:04 --> 00:28:09 that new version of yourself is incredibly important. It is. It absolutely is.
00:28:10 --> 00:28:18 And then from that episode, we jumped to episode 12, which was a very,
00:28:18 --> 00:28:21 very exciting episode for me.
00:28:21 --> 00:28:23 Here, I'll do a shameless plug.
00:28:24 --> 00:28:29 Absolutely. This is what the episode was all about. So this is,
00:28:29 --> 00:28:34 for any of you who are seeing this on clips, you'll see I'm holding up a copy
00:28:34 --> 00:28:37 of my book that just came out on April 28th.
00:28:37 --> 00:28:40 It's called Surviving, Finding Hope After Suicide Loss.
00:28:42 --> 00:28:47 And we talked a lot about the origin of that book. Why did I write it?
00:28:47 --> 00:28:48 What was that book about?
00:28:50 --> 00:28:53 It came to life because of my
00:28:53 --> 00:28:56 story of losing my father twice i lost him
00:28:56 --> 00:29:01 when i was 10 in 1978 to a heart attack that's at least the story i was told
00:29:01 --> 00:29:05 which i found out 35 years later was not the truth my dad died by suicide and
00:29:05 --> 00:29:14 i learned that as a 45 year old mother of two and this book is a six-year-long project,
00:29:15 --> 00:29:17 the kind of culmination of that project.
00:29:17 --> 00:29:25 And it's my memoir, of course, Losing Him Twice, and it's also part field guide,
00:29:26 --> 00:29:27 part mental health resource guide.
00:29:28 --> 00:29:34 Directory and a toolkit and it's something that I've spent a lot of time and
00:29:34 --> 00:29:39 emotional labor on and it's out in the world and it's something I'm incredibly proud of.
00:29:39 --> 00:29:45 My mom is a part of this book which is the most wonderful part of the whole experience for me.
00:29:46 --> 00:29:53 Not only did I record the audiobook of the book myself, but my mother is integrated
00:29:53 --> 00:29:58 into every chapter of the book and And she is also in the audiobook as well.
00:29:58 --> 00:29:59 Her voice is in the audiobook.
00:29:59 --> 00:30:04 And so the whole thing has been just a beautiful experience for me.
00:30:04 --> 00:30:05 And it's out in the world now.
00:30:06 --> 00:30:10 It's Kindle, Audible, paperback, all the ways that you can read it.
00:30:10 --> 00:30:15 And it's something that I really, really hope and pray will find its way into
00:30:15 --> 00:30:19 the people's hands who need it most, people who are, of course,
00:30:19 --> 00:30:21 surviving suicide loss, which is,
00:30:22 --> 00:30:26 94 million of us around the world every year are touched by suicide loss.
00:30:27 --> 00:30:31 So I hope it finds its way to those people and also just generalized grief and
00:30:31 --> 00:30:33 loss and mental health and wellness.
00:30:33 --> 00:30:38 So we talked all about that and you gave me the space to use a whole episode to talk about that.
00:30:38 --> 00:30:42 And I'm grateful to you for that because it's my baby.
00:30:43 --> 00:30:48 It's like having a baby. Dave was so funny. When the books arrived,
00:30:48 --> 00:30:51 when my author copies arrived and I opened the box of all the books,
00:30:51 --> 00:30:54 He looked at me and he's like, wow, that's the longest pregnancy you ever had.
00:30:55 --> 00:31:00 You know, it took like six years to write this book from like concepts to book
00:31:00 --> 00:31:03 in hand. He's like, that was a long pregnancy.
00:31:03 --> 00:31:07 That is funny. I love that. Yeah. But it's out in the world and you can find
00:31:07 --> 00:31:10 it everywhere that books are sold.
00:31:11 --> 00:31:16 And from there, we jumped into Mental Health Awareness Month.
00:31:18 --> 00:31:22 And we talked about, oh, no, we didn't. We talked about Mother's Day first.
00:31:22 --> 00:31:26 That's right. In a way, we talked about Mother's Day first. And the challenge
00:31:26 --> 00:31:29 of experiencing Mother's Day.
00:31:29 --> 00:31:32 Sorry, I'm adjusting my light here. Oh, yeah, of course.
00:31:32 --> 00:31:40 We talked about the two very different kinds of Mother's Day experiences that
00:31:40 --> 00:31:47 you and I have. I have a very close bond with my mom, and we're extremely present in each other's lives.
00:31:47 --> 00:31:52 And you don't have the same relationship. You have no contact with your mom
00:31:52 --> 00:31:53 and have for several years.
00:31:54 --> 00:32:00 And it's a very different experience. And it just goes to show that all of these
00:32:00 --> 00:32:05 days that are designed to be celebratory days are not always celebratory for everybody.
00:32:06 --> 00:32:08 Yeah. And allowing space to...
00:32:09 --> 00:32:14 Feel the holiday, whatever that holiday is, you know, this one was particularly about Mother's Day.
00:32:15 --> 00:32:18 And, you know, feel the loss of whatever it is you're dealing with,
00:32:18 --> 00:32:21 but also trying to be present in the moment.
00:32:21 --> 00:32:24 And it's okay for those two things to exist at the same time.
00:32:25 --> 00:32:29 That's a lot of what a grief and healing journey looks like is allowing two
00:32:29 --> 00:32:35 separate emotions or feelings to exist in the same moment. Mm-hmm. Yep.
00:32:36 --> 00:32:41 Absolutely. And from there, we slid right into Mental Health Awareness Month.
00:32:41 --> 00:32:45 We slid right into a beautiful conversation.
00:32:45 --> 00:32:48 It's actually a really, really powerful conversation, I think,
00:32:48 --> 00:32:55 about how do we take acknowledgement of our mental health and talking about
00:32:55 --> 00:32:57 mental health, which we're all doing,
00:32:57 --> 00:33:01 and it's in the mainstream and it's become more acceptable.
00:33:01 --> 00:33:05 How do we take that and put it into action?
00:33:05 --> 00:33:11 What do we say to actually help people? Like we're there to post the posts and
00:33:11 --> 00:33:15 share the videos and to say I'm not okay. But then what happens after that?
00:33:16 --> 00:33:19 What are we doing ourselves to communicate that we're not okay?
00:33:20 --> 00:33:25 And what are we doing as people who are trying to support the people who are not okay?
00:33:25 --> 00:33:29 So you and I did almost some role playing really about like what's a crisis
00:33:29 --> 00:33:34 call like? If somebody comes to you and says, I'm not okay, I want to take my
00:33:34 --> 00:33:37 life, or I'm having suicidal thoughts, like, okay, what do you do?
00:33:37 --> 00:33:40 And you and I talked in depth about that. And I think that was a really powerful
00:33:40 --> 00:33:44 conversation that I would really encourage anybody to listen to.
00:33:44 --> 00:33:48 Because if you're not sure how to handle someone in crisis or yourself in crisis.
00:33:49 --> 00:33:53 This gives you some actionable tips on how to do that.
00:33:53 --> 00:33:59 And we were really honest and open in a way to hopefully create more space for
00:33:59 --> 00:34:05 people to be honest and open and act in the ways that are beneficial when you need help.
00:34:06 --> 00:34:10 And and then we are
00:34:10 --> 00:34:14 here now episode 15 final
00:34:14 --> 00:34:21 final reflection and it's it's just so hard to believe that another season has
00:34:21 --> 00:34:25 come and gone and i'm so proud of what we're doing what we're putting out into
00:34:25 --> 00:34:30 the world and the conversations that you and i are having and the fact that
00:34:30 --> 00:34:31 we're creating a community.
00:34:32 --> 00:34:37 I mean, there are so many people who are reaching out to you and I offline saying like,
00:34:37 --> 00:34:41 We are so grateful to be part of the community that you're building because
00:34:41 --> 00:34:46 we're so much less alone and we feel supported and we feel validated.
00:34:46 --> 00:34:47 And that's the whole point.
00:34:47 --> 00:34:50 It's really the whole point. It's why you and I are doing this.
00:34:50 --> 00:34:56 And we will be back next Wednesday, right on time, with Season 5.
00:34:58 --> 00:35:02 And it's going to have a whole new lineup of conversations. We're bringing more
00:35:02 --> 00:35:07 guests and different voices and different experiences onto the pod.
00:35:07 --> 00:35:12 Building on that even more than we did this season. So if you are not already
00:35:12 --> 00:35:17 subscribed to us on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or YouTube or wherever you get your content,
00:35:18 --> 00:35:23 please click subscribe so that you never miss a conversation.
00:35:23 --> 00:35:24 We don't want you to miss a single thing.
00:35:24 --> 00:35:29 And if you have gotten something meaningful out of one of the conversations
00:35:29 --> 00:35:33 that we've had this season, one or many of the conversations,
00:35:33 --> 00:35:38 please, please, please take 60 seconds, 90 seconds and drop us a review.
00:35:39 --> 00:35:43 You cannot imagine how much that kind of feedback helps us to know that we're
00:35:43 --> 00:35:45 reaching the people we want to reach.
00:35:45 --> 00:35:50 So we would just appreciate any kind of feedback that we can get.
00:35:50 --> 00:35:58 So for me, for myself, Nash, thank you as always for just being the person doing this with me.
00:35:58 --> 00:36:02 I love and appreciate you and I love these conversations and I can't wait to
00:36:02 --> 00:36:04 pick it up again next season.
00:36:05 --> 00:36:09 Thank you. I really am truly honored to be doing this work with you. It's invaluable.
00:36:10 --> 00:36:15 And, you know, making the world a better place is something that I have been
00:36:15 --> 00:36:20 very passionate about and wanting to do for a long time. And you've finally
00:36:20 --> 00:36:22 given me that opportunity with this podcast. So thank you.
00:36:23 --> 00:36:27 That is entirely my pleasure because you just took that chance and ran with it.
00:36:28 --> 00:36:32 And I can't wait to just continue on.
00:36:32 --> 00:36:35 So we will be back next Wednesday, kicking off season five.
00:36:35 --> 00:36:39 Until then, you know the drill. Keep surviving. Bye.
00:36:40 --> 00:36:44 Thanks so much for listening and for being part of the Survivors community.
00:36:44 --> 00:36:49 No matter where you are in your story, you're not alone and you're definitely not broken.
00:36:49 --> 00:36:54 Healing takes time and it looks different for everyone. The fact that you're
00:36:54 --> 00:36:57 still here and still trying means you're already doing the hard work.
00:36:58 --> 00:37:02 If something in today's conversation resonated with you, please share it with
00:37:02 --> 00:37:03 someone who might need to hear it too.
00:37:04 --> 00:37:08 That's how we keep these conversations going and remind each other that there's always hope.
00:37:09 --> 00:37:12 And if you or someone you know is struggling, please remember,
00:37:12 --> 00:37:13 help is always out there.
00:37:13 --> 00:37:18 You can call or text 988 anytime to reach a trained crisis counselor like me.
00:37:18 --> 00:37:22 And for more mental health resources, tools, treatment options,
00:37:22 --> 00:37:25 and content to support your mental health, visit thehelphub.co.
00:37:26 --> 00:37:29 We're so grateful you're part of the Survivors family, and we'll be back next
00:37:29 --> 00:37:33 week with another honest conversation about life after the hardest things.
00:37:33 --> 00:37:38 Until then, take care of yourself and your people, and keep surviving.