*WARNING: This podcast mentions suicide, sexual abuse & trauma and may be triggering.
Episode Summary
In this reflective episode, Lisa and Natasha recap the emotional journey of Season 3 of The Survivors. They reflect on their origin stories, the various types of trauma and survival stories shared throughout the season, and the importance of storytelling in healing. The conversation touches on themes of gratitude amidst grief, navigating domestic abuse, holiday expectations, and the complexities of joy and loss. They also look ahead to Season 4, sharing their excitement for new voices and interactive engagements with their audience.
Episode Sponsored by The HelpHUB™
Struggling with your mental health? Feeling lost, overwhelmed, or just alone? Well, you're not. Welcome to The HelpHUB™—your online destination for mental health resources, treatment options, content, and tools to help meet you exactly where you are in the moment. Visit TheHelpHUB.co to get started.
Takeaways
- It's been a whirlwind, absolutely.
- The podcast has provided a platform for diverse survivor stories.
- Sharing personal experiences can help others heal.
- Gratitude can coexist with grief.
- Navigating domestic abuse is a shared struggle.
- Holiday expectations can be overwhelming.
- Life in a polygamy cult shapes unique survival stories.
- Financial stress during holidays is a common burden.
- Parenthood while grieving presents unique challenges.
- Complicated joy is a valid emotional experience.
Chapters
00:00 Season Three Reflection and Connection 02:57 Origin Stories and New Beginnings 06:03 Diving Deep into Trauma 09:01 The Power of Sharing Stories 11:46 Gratitude Amidst Grief 14:45 Breaking the Silence on Domestic Abuse 17:55 Holiday Expectations and Realities 20:50 Life in a Polygamy Cult 23:58 Financial Pressures During Holidays 25:02 Navigating Parenthood and Personal Identity 26:35 Grieving While Parenting: A Unique Challenge 28:38 The Impact of Grief on Family Dynamics 29:53 Burnout After the Holidays 31:53 Understanding Complicated Joy After Trauma 34:11 Grieving the Life You Thought You'd Have 38:31 Finding Community and Connection in Grief
Mental Health Resources
- If you or someone you know is struggling, please call 988 for help.
- The Survivors Podcast Website – https://thesurvivors.net/
- The HelpHUB™ – Mental health resources, tools, and support networks – https://www.thehelphub.co/
- National Domestic Violence Hotline – Call 1-800-799-SAFE (7223)
Follow & Connect With Us
📷 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/the_survivors_podcast
🔗 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-survivors-podcast
🎥 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheSurvivorsPodcastChannel
🎵📱TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thesurvivorspodcast
See you next week! In the meantime, keep surviving.
00:00:00 --> 00:00:04 Hey friends, before we dive into this week's episode, just a heads up.
00:00:04 --> 00:00:08 Our podcast talks about suicide, sexual abuse, and other trauma,
00:00:08 --> 00:00:12 and some of what you hear may be triggering. So please listen with care.
00:00:13 --> 00:00:18 This is The Survivors, real stories, raw conversations, and the truth about
00:00:18 --> 00:00:21 what it means to keep going after the hardest things.
00:00:21 --> 00:00:24 We're so glad you're here. Let's keep surviving together.
00:00:27 --> 00:00:31 I just don't even know how we're here at this point. It's been three months,
00:00:32 --> 00:00:37 14 episodes, so many hours together in this little teeny tiny box.
00:00:37 --> 00:00:44 And here we are at the end of season three of The Survivors.
00:00:44 --> 00:00:45 And that's our first season together.
00:00:45 --> 00:00:48 And I just love you. That's all I have to say.
00:00:49 --> 00:00:53 Oh, thank you. It's been a whirlwind, absolutely, for me.
00:00:53 --> 00:00:58 But it's been a blessing, an absolute blessing to do this with you.
00:00:58 --> 00:01:04 I've learned so much about you about myself and I just I can't thank you enough
00:01:04 --> 00:01:08 for bringing me on to this project with you oh god that was a no brainer I mean
00:01:08 --> 00:01:14 the first time you and I even connected it just it was a just an automatic how
00:01:14 --> 00:01:18 can we not do this and I was just so happy that you said yes,
00:01:18 --> 00:01:23 and and now here we are and it seems like it was just what October November
00:01:23 --> 00:01:27 when we started I don't even remember it's been so long it feels like it's been,
00:01:27 --> 00:01:30 I don't know. It feels like we've been connected for an awful lot longer than
00:01:30 --> 00:01:33 just a few months, you know, in all the good ways.
00:01:34 --> 00:01:41 So, okay, today is the recap of season three, and we covered a lot.
00:01:41 --> 00:01:43 I feel like we covered a lot, a lot of ground.
00:01:44 --> 00:01:47 It was an emotional season. I know it was for you.
00:01:48 --> 00:01:49 It definitely was for me. I think
00:01:49 --> 00:01:53 it was for all the people we've gotten feedback from since we started.
00:01:54 --> 00:02:00 We started with, you know, our origin story, that how did we meet? How did we get together?
00:02:02 --> 00:02:06 And it was, I think, pretty wild how you and I found each other,
00:02:06 --> 00:02:08 because we were definitely not looking for each other.
00:02:09 --> 00:02:12 Not in the slightest. No, no, not at all.
00:02:12 --> 00:02:17 Well, you had even just kind of started in your own life thinking thoughts of
00:02:17 --> 00:02:22 maybe someday I would do a podcast. And I was, you know, doing this podcast
00:02:22 --> 00:02:26 already. And we kind of had a shift in co-hosts.
00:02:26 --> 00:02:32 And all of a sudden, one conversation with a mutual friend that you and I have,
00:02:32 --> 00:02:39 Joe Massa, who has an amazing, amazing podcast and YouTube channel that got us together.
00:02:39 --> 00:02:41 His My Suicide Story, You Were a
00:02:41 --> 00:02:47 Guest. and I was a guest and he kind of shipped us and here we are. Yeah.
00:02:47 --> 00:02:53 Yeah, and you were willing to just take a massive, massive leap of faith because
00:02:53 --> 00:02:55 you had never done this before.
00:02:56 --> 00:03:01 This is totally, absolutely new to me. You know, just sharing what I did on
00:03:01 --> 00:03:04 Joe's podcast was amazing.
00:03:05 --> 00:03:10 And it's hard for me to go back and watch that episode because it is so incredibly
00:03:10 --> 00:03:15 raw and emotional for me to share those things publicly for the very first time.
00:03:16 --> 00:03:20 And then, you know, I did that with Joe, and then you and I started our podcast,
00:03:20 --> 00:03:25 and then I appeared on, I don't know, three or four other podcasts in like 60 days.
00:03:26 --> 00:03:29 Yeah, you were out there. Yeah, it was just a big old whirlwind.
00:03:29 --> 00:03:34 And I honestly, I got wore out. I had to take a beat and say,
00:03:34 --> 00:03:38 all right, I need to, because it is, it brings up a lot for me every single time. Right.
00:03:39 --> 00:03:44 And there's a lot that you have in your story.
00:03:44 --> 00:03:49 And that was one of the biggest pivots that we made this season,
00:03:49 --> 00:03:54 which was not just talking about being a survivor of a suicide loss or a suicide
00:03:54 --> 00:03:58 attempt, but you, just because of your story and your background and your experience,
00:03:58 --> 00:04:06 brought a whole set of different types of survivor stories to this podcast.
00:04:06 --> 00:04:15 I mean, sexual abuse, and you obviously are a survivor of suicide loss, five of them,
00:04:15 --> 00:04:21 And also a suicide, you know, multiple suicide attempts and domestic violence. I mean, cult life.
00:04:22 --> 00:04:27 It's like the grab bag of survivor stories. And you have a full, full bag.
00:04:28 --> 00:04:33 Yeah. And that's the other thing, too, is it's like I could never,
00:04:34 --> 00:04:38 you know, I did get one opportunity with another podcast where I was able to share my whole story.
00:04:38 --> 00:04:41 And I took two and a half hours of edited material.
00:04:42 --> 00:04:46 It was at two and a half hours. and it was just too much.
00:04:46 --> 00:04:49 You know what I mean? Like people are asking, when is a book coming out?
00:04:49 --> 00:04:55 When is a book coming out? And I'm like, I don't know that I can fit all of this in one book.
00:04:55 --> 00:04:59 I don't think that I can do it. I'm not sure.
00:04:59 --> 00:05:03 I just feel like it might be a bit much for people to take in.
00:05:04 --> 00:05:07 I might have to break it off into sections. I don't know. But.
00:05:08 --> 00:05:13 This podcast has given me the opportunity to get my footing and ground myself
00:05:13 --> 00:05:18 and get myself out there and get more comfortable.
00:05:18 --> 00:05:22 As I've done more and more interviews and things like that, it gets easier.
00:05:22 --> 00:05:29 Yes, and there's not as much emotion involved with practice or anything like that.
00:05:29 --> 00:05:33 But it doesn't mean that it hurts any less. Yes.
00:05:33 --> 00:05:39 I've just learned to share my story without gutting me every time.
00:05:40 --> 00:05:44 Yeah, well, there's compartmentalizing that happens. There's dissociation that
00:05:44 --> 00:05:48 happens. I mean, you jumped in, you know, we're recapping the season.
00:05:48 --> 00:05:52 So let's just jump to right after our origin story, which was episode one.
00:05:52 --> 00:05:57 Episode two was your story. I thought it was really, really important to spend
00:05:57 --> 00:06:00 time, and we did spend a lot of time,
00:06:00 --> 00:06:07 talking about where you came from with all of this and your life as a member
00:06:07 --> 00:06:13 of the FLDS polygamy cult, and your uncle is Warren Jeffs,
00:06:13 --> 00:06:16 and your family was excommunicated,
00:06:16 --> 00:06:23 and you had 19 siblings in your family. Unfortunately, you've lost five of them.
00:06:23 --> 00:06:29 But I mean, you come from a very, very loaded background.
00:06:30 --> 00:06:35 And you shared that and that you just dove headfirst into like the super deep
00:06:35 --> 00:06:40 end of the pool with with both your part one of your story.
00:06:40 --> 00:06:42 And then episode three, we just kept rolling.
00:06:43 --> 00:06:48 And and that was part two of your story. And, you know, we kind of started at
00:06:48 --> 00:06:51 the beginning and worked our way all the way up to now. Yeah.
00:06:52 --> 00:06:56 And it's interesting because I have cousins and my aunts.
00:06:57 --> 00:07:04 One aunt has reached out to me and multiple times she's watched and listened to all the episodes.
00:07:04 --> 00:07:07 I think she watches them on YouTube. And...
00:07:07 --> 00:07:12 When she first started listening and watching, she just was like, oh, my God.
00:07:13 --> 00:07:19 I had absolutely no idea that you were dealing with that for so many years.
00:07:20 --> 00:07:27 And why didn't you ever say anything? And I had a lot of people ask me,
00:07:27 --> 00:07:28 why didn't I say anything?
00:07:29 --> 00:07:35 And I just, I don't know. There was the shame behind, you know,
00:07:35 --> 00:07:37 attempting suicide myself multiple times.
00:07:38 --> 00:07:42 How could I do that after losing two brothers in the early 2000s to that?
00:07:42 --> 00:07:49 I just, I learned at a very young age to carry the baggage and the trauma alone
00:07:49 --> 00:07:56 and never didn't, I didn't really feel safe to share with very many people at all.
00:07:56 --> 00:07:58 And and so yeah i've had a number
00:07:58 --> 00:08:04 of people that have let me know you know that i've friends that i've only known
00:08:04 --> 00:08:10 for a few years and the sweetest comments and text messages and they either
00:08:10 --> 00:08:18 but underlying messages is if natasha can get through this what she has experienced which is.
00:08:19 --> 00:08:23 Some of the worst of the worst out there. If she can survive and come out on
00:08:23 --> 00:08:25 the other side, then I can do it.
00:08:26 --> 00:08:29 And that's the whole point. That's what, I mean, I remember when you and I first
00:08:29 --> 00:08:33 talked way back before we ever hit record, that's what you said.
00:08:33 --> 00:08:39 If the benefit of my experience can help someone heal or can help someone find
00:08:39 --> 00:08:43 support or can give someone guidance or just a little bit of hope,
00:08:43 --> 00:08:44 like that's the whole point.
00:08:44 --> 00:08:51 And you did that and you, You know, we rolled straight into episode four,
00:08:51 --> 00:08:55 which was all about you surviving sexual abuse.
00:08:55 --> 00:08:58 And it was your brother who was your abuser.
00:08:59 --> 00:09:04 And I mean, I just think of each of the things that you've shared about your
00:09:04 --> 00:09:11 life, losses or attempts or, you know, domestic violence within your family
00:09:11 --> 00:09:13 and what happened with your brother.
00:09:13 --> 00:09:17 And it's like, how do you even rank those things in your brain?
00:09:17 --> 00:09:22 Like as a listener, like one thing is worse than the other, but they're all
00:09:22 --> 00:09:31 so just traumatic and life changing that you've just had a lot.
00:09:31 --> 00:09:35 You've had a lot in your life. And the fact that you're here talking about it
00:09:35 --> 00:09:40 for the benefit of other people who may be at a different point in their trauma.
00:09:41 --> 00:09:44 Like, that's heroic as far as I'm concerned. So thank you.
00:09:45 --> 00:09:48 Well, it's the truth. I mean, you're welcome, but it's the truth.
00:09:48 --> 00:09:54 I mean, it's how I feel. Well, again, having carried it for such a long time,
00:09:54 --> 00:09:59 and I never certainly have considered myself a quote-unquote hero,
00:10:00 --> 00:10:06 but I have had comments and messages from people saying that it's humbling,
00:10:06 --> 00:10:09 it's incredibly humbling, and I don't take that lightly.
00:10:11 --> 00:10:17 You know, I never sought out to have anybody go, look at me,
00:10:17 --> 00:10:20 look at me, look at me. It's never been about that.
00:10:20 --> 00:10:25 In fact, in some ways, the accolades are hard for me to swallow, really.
00:10:27 --> 00:10:32 Because we didn't grow up in a world of praise. It was sit down,
00:10:32 --> 00:10:34 shut up, and you're going to get what you're given.
00:10:37 --> 00:10:40 And this has provided such an incredible amount
00:10:40 --> 00:10:43 of healing for myself so people come
00:10:43 --> 00:10:46 to you know they say oh my gosh you're you're healing me and
00:10:46 --> 00:10:49 it's i'm like it's a two-way street here well that's
00:10:49 --> 00:10:52 what this podcast has always been i mean it's just cathartic for
00:10:52 --> 00:10:55 me to come on and talk about the grief that i have
00:10:55 --> 00:10:59 or the losses that i've had or or you
00:10:59 --> 00:11:02 know dealing with mental illness with with
00:11:02 --> 00:11:05 my children or my father or my family it's
00:11:05 --> 00:11:08 it's healing for for anybody who gets to see themselves
00:11:08 --> 00:11:11 or hear themselves in what we talk about
00:11:11 --> 00:11:14 right absolutely yeah and
00:11:14 --> 00:11:17 i mean in the way that you know you losing your dad
00:11:17 --> 00:11:21 at such a young age how that just
00:11:21 --> 00:11:26 changed the trajectory of your life and for so many years you lived with that
00:11:26 --> 00:11:31 and then to find out what was it 35 years later that he actually died by suicide
00:11:31 --> 00:11:38 and losing him all over again i mean that would just i don't even know.
00:11:39 --> 00:11:44 It's definitely been an experience. It's just nothing you ever expect.
00:11:45 --> 00:11:47 I mean, you lose someone and you never expect that you're going to have to lose
00:11:47 --> 00:11:52 them and grieve them all over again, and certainly not in the way that I did.
00:11:52 --> 00:11:55 But like you, we make choices.
00:11:55 --> 00:12:01 We make choices and I feel like you and I have made a very intentional choice
00:12:01 --> 00:12:06 to get out there and talk about what we've dealt with and talk about how awful
00:12:06 --> 00:12:11 it's been at times and debilitating and how we've been isolated or depressed
00:12:11 --> 00:12:15 or all the things that you and I have been through because of what we've gone through.
00:12:15 --> 00:12:19 And okay, we've made that conscious choice to sit here and talk about it.
00:12:20 --> 00:12:25 And we do that because we have a story to share.
00:12:26 --> 00:12:32 And in my own experience telling stories now, or at least my own for so many years,
00:12:32 --> 00:12:38 I don't think I've ever found anything that has quite the healing power that
00:12:38 --> 00:12:42 storytelling has and sharing lived experience has, because that's how people
00:12:42 --> 00:12:46 see themselves in other people and realize they're not alone.
00:12:46 --> 00:12:48 And I'm not the only one who's ever gone through all the things,
00:12:49 --> 00:12:51 for instance, that you've gone through or that I've gone through.
00:12:51 --> 00:12:54 And well, how did you do it? How did you navigate it? What got you to the other
00:12:54 --> 00:12:57 side of all that grief? And that's what we do.
00:12:58 --> 00:13:02 And, you know, this is not to say anything negative about anyone who chooses
00:13:02 --> 00:13:04 not to share. Like, that's your choice.
00:13:05 --> 00:13:11 We're just choosing to share as much, like you said before, for everyone else and for ourselves.
00:13:11 --> 00:13:18 But this is actually a good moment to recap episode five, which was about gratitude and grief.
00:13:18 --> 00:13:25 Like you and I together have lost eight people we love to suicide, just the two of us.
00:13:25 --> 00:13:32 So we have had an enormous amount of grief in our life, but we sit here with
00:13:32 --> 00:13:34 an incredible amount of gratitude.
00:13:35 --> 00:13:41 You know, and we talked about that. Absolutely. I mean, just talk about being
00:13:41 --> 00:13:43 grateful for all the little things.
00:13:43 --> 00:13:49 And the time that I spend with my children, I mean, they had a snow day today,
00:13:50 --> 00:13:51 and so they didn't go to school.
00:13:52 --> 00:14:01 And we played and laughed, and George was in his office I was trying to work. Poor Josh.
00:14:01 --> 00:14:08 And we were hooting and hollering and laughing and having fun while I was taking a break from unpacking.
00:14:09 --> 00:14:15 And, I mean, it's just those. And for me, I go, I hope that's a core memory
00:14:15 --> 00:14:17 for my kids because that was for me.
00:14:18 --> 00:14:24 And I hope they look back and they remember. But it's when I think about everybody
00:14:24 --> 00:14:28 that I've lost and the memories that they didn't get to make with their own
00:14:28 --> 00:14:32 children, because, you know, five of my brothers of the five,
00:14:33 --> 00:14:37 only one of them had their own had children.
00:14:38 --> 00:14:46 And so, by living my life with my children and George and everything, I'm honoring them.
00:14:47 --> 00:14:53 And especially considering that three of the five died at 28 years old.
00:14:53 --> 00:14:58 The other two were in their early 40s. And so, every day that I am alive is...
00:14:59 --> 00:15:05 It's just a way to tribute to them and to the life that they didn't get to live
00:15:05 --> 00:15:08 to the forced. I love that.
00:15:09 --> 00:15:14 So, all right, that was episode five. Episode six, we shifted gears again and
00:15:14 --> 00:15:18 we jumped kind of right back into another part of your story,
00:15:18 --> 00:15:22 which was domestic abuse and surviving that.
00:15:22 --> 00:15:29 And, you know, you were really, really open and honest and raw about what you
00:15:29 --> 00:15:31 dealt with at home when you were a kid.
00:15:31 --> 00:15:35 And you said it a few minutes ago about how everyone in your family was just
00:15:35 --> 00:15:40 expected to, like the Netflix series says, keep sweet, pray, and obey.
00:15:41 --> 00:15:45 And if you didn't, I mean, things got physical.
00:15:47 --> 00:15:52 And that was your childhood. Right. There was, I mean, there was fights among
00:15:52 --> 00:16:00 the moms, there was fights among the siblings, you know, regular beatings from my, our parents.
00:16:00 --> 00:16:04 My dad was really hard on the older kids. He never laid a hand on me,
00:16:04 --> 00:16:10 you know, but just the overall abuse that occurred on the regular.
00:16:10 --> 00:16:15 And, you know, again, I've had cousins reach out to me and say the same thing happened to us.
00:16:16 --> 00:16:20 And we all thought we were so alone in that.
00:16:21 --> 00:16:27 And thank you for letting me know that we were not alone, that we were not crazy,
00:16:28 --> 00:16:33 thinking that getting beat the shit out of every, almost every day was normal.
00:16:34 --> 00:16:39 And you know I have cousins that I've never even met that have connected with
00:16:39 --> 00:16:44 me on social media to tell me what they experienced and.
00:16:45 --> 00:16:50 It breaks my heart. It breaks my heart in so many ways that that kind of abuse
00:16:50 --> 00:16:54 was occurring in so many different homes within our community.
00:16:54 --> 00:16:57 Yeah, it's all optics. Nobody wants to talk about it.
00:16:57 --> 00:17:01 Everybody has to pretend that they're living this idyllic little life,
00:17:01 --> 00:17:04 but everybody's suffering behind closed doors.
00:17:04 --> 00:17:07 I mean, it's a really...
00:17:08 --> 00:17:11 Horrible way to live especially for a
00:17:11 --> 00:17:13 child the the wives are suffering trying to
00:17:13 --> 00:17:16 live this bullshit principle in the
00:17:16 --> 00:17:21 jealousy and and the you know control that comes with that and then the children
00:17:21 --> 00:17:26 and it's just a never-ending cycle of it and i just reached a point where i
00:17:26 --> 00:17:33 couldn't do it anymore i am i'm so done living in a life where we're we're not
00:17:33 --> 00:17:35 talking about it because,
00:17:36 --> 00:17:39 that how do we that's the only way i know to change this
00:17:39 --> 00:17:42 is to just talk about it that's right
00:17:42 --> 00:17:45 that's right and the more you give other people permission to
00:17:45 --> 00:17:50 talk the more they talk and that's it's a domino effect and in a good way in
00:17:50 --> 00:17:56 a good way so after that believe it or not it was the holidays and we started
00:17:56 --> 00:18:03 talking about holiday expectations that was that was episode seven talked about, you know.
00:18:04 --> 00:18:10 Everything having to be magical and that pressure and that expectation.
00:18:10 --> 00:18:12 But what if we don't feel festive?
00:18:12 --> 00:18:16 You and I talked a lot about that because you and I were kind of struggling
00:18:16 --> 00:18:23 in different ways with the idea of just kind of lowering the bar because it was too high.
00:18:23 --> 00:18:27 Everything had to be just so and you had to fake it till you make it.
00:18:29 --> 00:18:36 And for what? You know, just to create the illusion of something festive when
00:18:36 --> 00:18:37 nobody's feeling festive.
00:18:38 --> 00:18:44 So, I mean, to me, that was an important conversation because I really resonated with that one.
00:18:45 --> 00:18:49 Yeah. And, you know, I know when the kids are younger, you want to make it magical.
00:18:49 --> 00:18:54 And so there is that holiday pressure when your kids, both parents, when the kids are small.
00:18:54 --> 00:18:58 Mm-hmm. You know, and then for me, as the older the kids have gotten,
00:18:58 --> 00:19:04 I've gotten more real with them and just been more honest about things.
00:19:05 --> 00:19:11 And, and I just have reached a point in my life where I can no longer pretend it.
00:19:11 --> 00:19:18 Makes me physically and emotionally unwell if I have to pretend like everything is okay. Yeah.
00:19:19 --> 00:19:22 Yeah. I know what you mean, and I feel the same way. And again, it's optics.
00:19:23 --> 00:19:27 We shouldn't have to live in a world where we're pretending.
00:19:28 --> 00:19:33 And I think that was actually, for me, one of the more powerful conversations
00:19:33 --> 00:19:38 of this season, because we were all right in the thick of doing that.
00:19:38 --> 00:19:45 And that conversation was a good reminder for me to knock that shit off and stop doing it.
00:19:45 --> 00:19:49 Stop it right now. Stop it right now. So, okay, after that.
00:19:50 --> 00:19:54 You, this episode still blows my mind, episode eight,
00:19:54 --> 00:20:03 when you talked in depth about your life in the FLDS polygamy cult and what
00:20:03 --> 00:20:07 it was like with all the control and the rules and the expectations.
00:20:09 --> 00:20:14 And I think what really stuck out to me in that conversation was how,
00:20:14 --> 00:20:15 you kind of alluded to it a minute ago,
00:20:16 --> 00:20:23 how normal it felt to everybody who you said was living in that community with
00:20:23 --> 00:20:26 you, that it was just normal. Mm-hmm.
00:20:26 --> 00:20:30 Just to, you know, you don't even realize you're surviving something until you're out of it.
00:20:31 --> 00:20:36 Looking for mental health resources that actually fit who you are and where you come from?
00:20:36 --> 00:20:40 Then you need to check out the Help Hub. It's not another generic wellness site.
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00:20:46 --> 00:20:53 People managing stress, anxiety, depression, trauma and abuse, grief or suicide loss.
00:20:53 --> 00:20:57 At the Help Hub, you'll find the resources, tools, treatment options,
00:20:57 --> 00:21:02 and trauma-informed content you need in the moment without having to dig through
00:21:02 --> 00:21:04 endless tabs or start from scratch.
00:21:04 --> 00:21:10 It's your place to land, to take a breath, and to find exactly what you need when you need it most.
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00:21:20 --> 00:21:25 I didn't even know it was a cult until we were out of it, which we left when
00:21:25 --> 00:21:28 I was in 97, when I was 12 years old.
00:21:29 --> 00:21:33 I had absolutely, for years, did not even know that it was a cult.
00:21:33 --> 00:21:39 And we got out of it before shit got really bad with Warren taking over.
00:21:40 --> 00:21:42 We got out just in the nick of time.
00:21:43 --> 00:21:47 And I'm so very grateful for that. And I think, too,
00:21:47 --> 00:21:53 the trajectory of, as my older siblings, I'm smack dab in the middle,
00:21:54 --> 00:21:58 number 13 of 20, and the vast majority of my older siblings,
00:21:58 --> 00:22:01 one by one, were leaving the church.
00:22:01 --> 00:22:05 And I think my dad realized that
00:22:05 --> 00:22:07 if and he didn't want to lose his children
00:22:07 --> 00:22:10 that was the number one thing about my dad
00:22:10 --> 00:22:13 is he absolutely loved and adored his children and he
00:22:13 --> 00:22:16 knew if he stayed he would lose the vast
00:22:16 --> 00:22:19 majority of his children and he wasn't willing
00:22:19 --> 00:22:25 to let us go and and I I thank my parents very much for having the courage to
00:22:25 --> 00:22:29 step away from a life that was generational that was all that they knew all
00:22:29 --> 00:22:33 sense of community that was our family that was our cousins that was everything
00:22:33 --> 00:22:38 that we had to nothing yeah and having to build our lives from the ground up.
00:22:39 --> 00:22:45 Yeah, that was a watershed moment for your family where everything changed,
00:22:45 --> 00:22:50 where they just cut loose of everything, like you said, that was not just what
00:22:50 --> 00:22:53 your family knew, but it was this generational pattern.
00:22:54 --> 00:23:00 And, you know, you're living inside this bubble. So no one really understands.
00:23:00 --> 00:23:05 Certainly none of your siblings understood the reality of what you were living
00:23:05 --> 00:23:10 in. So, you know, like you said, thankfully your parents got out when they did.
00:23:11 --> 00:23:18 Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. So then after that conversation, it was thinking about the
00:23:18 --> 00:23:20 holidays in a different way.
00:23:20 --> 00:23:24 You and I didn't want to just have the same conversation about holiday expectations.
00:23:24 --> 00:23:29 We wanted to talk about it from the financial point of view because we each
00:23:29 --> 00:23:34 have two kids and we know what prepping for holidays,
00:23:35 --> 00:23:39 celebrating holidays, buying gifts for holiday, like all of that financial stress
00:23:39 --> 00:23:43 is so unbelievably heavy and it's so real.
00:23:43 --> 00:23:48 But we talked about it all we talked about like the guilt the debt the that
00:23:48 --> 00:23:55 pressure to make sure you know all the gifts are either under the tree or in the house and.
00:23:56 --> 00:24:00 I think for me, it felt kind of freeing just to kind of call it out and be like,
00:24:00 --> 00:24:09 that's bullshit that we have to make ourselves poor just to satisfy some expectation
00:24:09 --> 00:24:11 of what a holiday should be.
00:24:11 --> 00:24:19 Yeah, absolutely. And the kids, in the long run, do they remember the gifts? No, they don't.
00:24:19 --> 00:24:22 It's the experiences of it and making a
00:24:22 --> 00:24:25 damn mess on christmas eve making sugar cookies it
00:24:25 --> 00:24:28 you know because i don't know
00:24:28 --> 00:24:31 why they want to make sugar cookies but those buggers are involved i
00:24:31 --> 00:24:34 know they are i know they are but you know that's you talk
00:24:34 --> 00:24:37 about core memories though but that's the core memory it's you
00:24:37 --> 00:24:40 know it it's not it's not the video game that
00:24:40 --> 00:24:43 they wanted maybe it is for a few minutes but it's not that's not
00:24:43 --> 00:24:46 the thing that lasts you know you i remember
00:24:46 --> 00:24:49 it was a story from that from that episode you talked about like
00:24:49 --> 00:24:52 running around outside and banging on
00:24:52 --> 00:24:55 pots and pans was that for new years oh yes
00:24:55 --> 00:24:58 when i was a kid yes we did that we got pots
00:24:58 --> 00:25:02 and pans and metal spoons and things like that we you know because we wanted
00:25:02 --> 00:25:06 to celebrate but we had to stay within our little compound i know i know because
00:25:06 --> 00:25:12 you were in a cult honey i'm so sorry we wanted to celebrate so we'd get pots
00:25:12 --> 00:25:16 and pans and go out there and bang those things and because we didn't have fireworks.
00:25:16 --> 00:25:20 I mean, we could have had fireworks, but that was just our way of celebrating.
00:25:20 --> 00:25:26 And I think, what did I do for New Year's this year? Oh, I did a four and a half hour TikTok live.
00:25:28 --> 00:25:31 What a way to spend the New Year. Wow.
00:25:32 --> 00:25:36 For New Year's Eve. And I even brought, I stayed on. I started at 10 p.m.
00:25:36 --> 00:25:41 I stayed on and I came downstairs for like two minutes before the ball dropped.
00:25:41 --> 00:25:45 And I, because I don't show my kids on social media. So I aimed my phone on
00:25:45 --> 00:25:48 a live at the screen, the TV screen, to watch the ball drop.
00:25:49 --> 00:25:53 We, yeah, you know, did the thing, kisses and all that things.
00:25:53 --> 00:25:58 And the kids went to bed and I went on with being on live for another two and
00:25:58 --> 00:26:00 a half hours. And, you know.
00:26:01 --> 00:26:05 Again, I've gotten to this point where, yes, it is about the children,
00:26:05 --> 00:26:10 but when your kids are young, you get lost in motherhood. Oh, for sure.
00:26:11 --> 00:26:14 For me, I just was so fully devoted to my kids.
00:26:15 --> 00:26:19 Yeah. Especially because George traveled so much for the first seven years.
00:26:20 --> 00:26:24 It was the same way for me. Dave traveled a ton internationally.
00:26:25 --> 00:26:28 Oh, yeah. He was out of the country. He was out of the country more than he
00:26:28 --> 00:26:31 was in the country back in the early days. Yeah.
00:26:31 --> 00:26:35 Felt like a single mom. Yeah. Oh, definitely. Most definitely.
00:26:35 --> 00:26:36 We talk about that all the time. Yeah.
00:26:37 --> 00:26:43 And so as you get older and the kids get more independent and you're like, oh, can I have me now?
00:26:44 --> 00:26:49 Is this time for me now? Now your me time is four hour long TikTok lives on
00:26:49 --> 00:26:50 New Year's Eve. I love that for you.
00:26:51 --> 00:26:56 It was so much fun. It was, I mean, we still, I had people that were there the
00:26:56 --> 00:27:00 majority of that time still talking about how much fun that night was.
00:27:00 --> 00:27:02 That's great. That's great. I love that.
00:27:03 --> 00:27:08 So we kind of kept the parenthood theme going after the first of the year.
00:27:09 --> 00:27:12 And we talked about, and again, we talked about parenthood from a different angle.
00:27:13 --> 00:27:18 We talked about, in episode 11, parenthood while we're grieving,
00:27:18 --> 00:27:26 which is a really unique take on what it's like to be a mom or a dad when you're struggling with grief.
00:27:27 --> 00:27:31 Because it's a quiet struggle, especially when you have younger kids,
00:27:31 --> 00:27:37 you don't necessarily want to share with them exactly, or maybe you can't even
00:27:37 --> 00:27:40 share with them what exactly is going on and why you're so sad.
00:27:40 --> 00:27:44 You know, your heart is heavy all the time, but nobody can see that part.
00:27:44 --> 00:27:50 So you kind of have to wear two different masks and it's hard.
00:27:50 --> 00:27:55 And I know that for me, I think,
00:27:55 --> 00:28:02 may be my most powerful conversation of this year because I was dealing with
00:28:02 --> 00:28:05 that while we were recording.
00:28:05 --> 00:28:12 We just lost my mother-in-law just a couple of weeks ago, and we were really in the thick of it.
00:28:13 --> 00:28:18 Remember, I recorded that episode with you from Florida, and it was like anticipatory
00:28:18 --> 00:28:21 grief was everywhere because things were not good.
00:28:21 --> 00:28:27 And, you know, trying to navigate that with my own two adult children who had
00:28:27 --> 00:28:33 never really lost anyone that close to them. They were very fortunate up to now.
00:28:34 --> 00:28:37 And the first loss they ever really had that was significant in their lives
00:28:37 --> 00:28:39 was their grandmother, who they're so close to.
00:28:40 --> 00:28:44 So it was hard. Yeah. It was hard. Yeah.
00:28:45 --> 00:28:49 Yeah, to me, that was just a powerful conversation.
00:28:50 --> 00:28:56 Yeah, and I'm grateful that your girls got to be adults in their 20s with their
00:28:56 --> 00:29:00 first major experience with grief. Oh, yeah.
00:29:00 --> 00:29:04 I mean, they both are very well aware of the fact that it's very unusual.
00:29:05 --> 00:29:08 I mean, I remember when I found out the truth about my dad's suicide,
00:29:09 --> 00:29:12 my girls were like 10 and 13.
00:29:14 --> 00:29:17 So they were young, and I didn't tell them for the first two years because I
00:29:17 --> 00:29:26 was so completely upside down and twisted with all this grief and being a survivor
00:29:26 --> 00:29:27 all of a sudden and not knowing what to do.
00:29:27 --> 00:29:31 And I didn't share that with them right away. I didn't even know what I was dealing with.
00:29:31 --> 00:29:35 I didn't even know how to process any of it. I certainly couldn't lay it on them.
00:29:36 --> 00:29:40 Right. You know, but then when they were old enough, I felt like they were old enough.
00:29:40 --> 00:29:44 A few years later, we had the conversation and our kids surprise us.
00:29:44 --> 00:29:47 You and I have talked a lot about that because I know your kids have surprised
00:29:47 --> 00:29:51 you and might have surprised me with different things that, you know,
00:29:51 --> 00:29:52 we may not think they're ready for.
00:29:52 --> 00:29:56 And then when we have the right kind of conversation, they are ready for it.
00:29:56 --> 00:30:00 And it surprises us because they're more ready than we think.
00:30:01 --> 00:30:05 Yep. I know. I mean, my kids are 10 and 12, but have been dealing with suicide
00:30:05 --> 00:30:08 for the last three years.
00:30:08 --> 00:30:12 Yeah. They didn't know about Clayton and David in the early 2000s,
00:30:12 --> 00:30:15 so having to tell them about Corey and then, oh, by the way,
00:30:15 --> 00:30:19 you've had two other uncles, you know, that opened up a whole other can of worms
00:30:19 --> 00:30:24 that I had to share with them and try to.
00:30:24 --> 00:30:30 And with each loss, as you know, suicide loss in particular,
00:30:30 --> 00:30:33 it reopens the previous wound. Oh, sure.
00:30:34 --> 00:30:41 And so it just feels like a never-ending, gaping wound that you're dealing with.
00:30:41 --> 00:30:44 Yeah, I mean, they never fully close. That's the unfortunate thing.
00:30:45 --> 00:30:53 You know, I think they stop gushing, I guess is the best way to say it.
00:30:53 --> 00:30:55 But they never really close.
00:30:57 --> 00:31:00 So that led us to episode 12.
00:31:00 --> 00:31:03 And that was burnout after the holidays.
00:31:04 --> 00:31:07 And you and I were talking before we hit record that we feel like we're still
00:31:07 --> 00:31:08 kind of in that place right now.
00:31:09 --> 00:31:15 I loved how validating that episode was because we talked a lot about kind of
00:31:15 --> 00:31:16 that weird crash when everything ends.
00:31:16 --> 00:31:19 Because there's such this massive buildup from like...
00:31:20 --> 00:31:25 Halloween, Thanksgiving, holidays, New Year's, and then all of a sudden it's
00:31:25 --> 00:31:30 this expectation that you just pop into the new year and you're fully engaged
00:31:30 --> 00:31:33 and fully refreshed and fully ready to go.
00:31:33 --> 00:31:35 And nobody's ready to go.
00:31:36 --> 00:31:38 Yeah, I can't, everybody, what's your New Year's resolution?
00:31:38 --> 00:31:42 I'm like, no. No. No. We're done.
00:31:44 --> 00:31:47 I love it. You were just like, I'm not having it. Right, right.
00:31:47 --> 00:31:50 No, you said something. I loved what you said. I remember in this episode,
00:31:50 --> 00:31:53 you talked about instead of having a resolution, you had a word.
00:31:53 --> 00:31:56 Do you remember what your word was? Rise.
00:31:56 --> 00:31:59 Yes. And mine was, I think mine was impact.
00:32:00 --> 00:32:03 Yeah. I think that's serving us well so far.
00:32:04 --> 00:32:06 Yeah, so far so good now that we're
00:32:06 --> 00:32:10 like getting toward the early parts of February, which I can't believe.
00:32:11 --> 00:32:17 So, all right. So then we had episode 13, when joy feels complicated.
00:32:18 --> 00:32:23 And this one kind of surprised me a little bit, the way that it resonated with
00:32:23 --> 00:32:27 me, because after trauma, joy
00:32:27 --> 00:32:32 can feel so unbelievably scary and people don't know how to approach it.
00:32:32 --> 00:32:37 And I feel like that whole episode was one just big, giant validation,
00:32:37 --> 00:32:39 or at least it was for me, that.
00:32:40 --> 00:32:44 You know, joy doesn't have to be fireworks. It doesn't have to be like crazy
00:32:44 --> 00:32:47 celebration. It could just be kind of allowing yourself to be content,
00:32:48 --> 00:32:52 even when you're sad or you've had trauma or you're grieving.
00:32:53 --> 00:32:58 And I think a lot of the feedback that we got from that episode was that people
00:32:58 --> 00:33:03 appreciated having permission to just, you know, acknowledge that it's complicated
00:33:03 --> 00:33:07 to be happy after you're in a bad place.
00:33:07 --> 00:33:12 And if you know and all the emotions that come along with you know you're trying
00:33:12 --> 00:33:17 to live your life while you're carrying this big heavy boulder of grief and
00:33:17 --> 00:33:24 you laugh or you giggle or you smile and you you feel that emotion then all
00:33:24 --> 00:33:26 of a sudden it's coupled with the guilt of it yeah.
00:33:27 --> 00:33:30 And i can't tell you how many times i was
00:33:30 --> 00:33:33 at my kids games wanting so badly
00:33:33 --> 00:33:36 to be fully engaged and it took
00:33:36 --> 00:33:40 every fiber of my being to just
00:33:40 --> 00:33:46 be there and just physically being present was all that i had the energy for
00:33:46 --> 00:33:52 especially after losing four four family members in five months i felt so guilty
00:33:52 --> 00:33:57 because i wanted to be excited for my children but i physically could not do it,
00:33:57 --> 00:34:02 And you know what? That's a good reminder. I think that sometimes showing up
00:34:02 --> 00:34:08 just means just maybe physically being there in whatever way we can be.
00:34:09 --> 00:34:13 We don't necessarily have to be, you know, have pom-poms and cheerleading.
00:34:14 --> 00:34:18 And maybe it's just sitting in the stands. Maybe you don't have the energy to
00:34:18 --> 00:34:20 be smiling and yelling and screaming and whistling.
00:34:21 --> 00:34:26 And maybe you're just there. and it needs to be that and it needs to be okay.
00:34:26 --> 00:34:31 And that was my takeaway from that conversation and I actually really loved that conversation.
00:34:32 --> 00:34:39 And I think my second favorite conversation was the one that we had last week
00:34:39 --> 00:34:44 that I've still been thinking a lot about because you and I talked a lot about this offline too.
00:34:44 --> 00:34:49 And this was episode 14 and it was grieving the life that you thought you'd have.
00:34:49 --> 00:34:57 And I have gotten so many wild comments about that from people who are like,
00:34:57 --> 00:35:04 I can't believe you guys are talking about this because I feel like I can't
00:35:04 --> 00:35:11 even acknowledge being sad over not getting the job I wanted or,
00:35:11 --> 00:35:17 you know, I lost a friendship or it's not all about grief attached to losing someone.
00:35:18 --> 00:35:25 We can grieve expectations. We can grieve like you have a list of things that
00:35:25 --> 00:35:28 maybe you thought would turn out differently. And so did I.
00:35:29 --> 00:35:32 And in your life. And it doesn't mean that you don't appreciate the life you have now.
00:35:33 --> 00:35:36 It doesn't mean that, you know, you're not grateful.
00:35:36 --> 00:35:41 It just means that you're holding space for the stuff that didn't turn out the
00:35:41 --> 00:35:42 way you wanted that you have the right to be sad about.
00:35:43 --> 00:35:51 Right. Grief is not about the death of a person. only it is the complicated
00:35:51 --> 00:35:57 grieving the death of a dream a friendship a job and,
00:35:57 --> 00:36:03 a marriage, so many different situations because it didn't pan out.
00:36:03 --> 00:36:09 I mean, opening the conversation of grief up into a broader aspect of,
00:36:10 --> 00:36:12 oh, wow, I can actually be sad about that.
00:36:13 --> 00:36:19 I can be sad about the fact that the last 10 years felt like a waste because we moved so many times or,
00:36:20 --> 00:36:25 in your situation with your daughter moving away to Japan and having that distance
00:36:25 --> 00:36:30 for you and not having her just write down the street from you and how hard that has been for you.
00:36:30 --> 00:36:38 Grieving the life that you dreamed about for so many years and it's non-existent and that's okay.
00:36:39 --> 00:36:44 It is. And I've given myself a lot of permission lately to grieve that one thing in particular.
00:36:44 --> 00:36:49 And it's not like I ever expected my daughters to live nearby me.
00:36:49 --> 00:36:53 Like we've always encouraged our kids, always, you know, see the world,
00:36:53 --> 00:36:55 be part of the world, experience it.
00:36:55 --> 00:37:01 Every chance you get, wherever you decide you feel like you belong is where you should be.
00:37:01 --> 00:37:06 You just never really think that they're going to take that and run all the way to Japan with it.
00:37:06 --> 00:37:11 And you figure, you know, maybe East Coast to West Coast or Midwest or, you know, who knows.
00:37:11 --> 00:37:16 But I mean, you know, the reality is that I see my daughter twice a year and
00:37:16 --> 00:37:21 we are such, I mean, you know, we are such an incredibly close family unit. We talk every day.
00:37:22 --> 00:37:27 It's different. And I've never, I guess I've never until very recently really
00:37:27 --> 00:37:31 acknowledged the fact that I'm actually actively grieving over the fact that
00:37:31 --> 00:37:37 I can count on half a hand the amount of times I get to physically be with my
00:37:37 --> 00:37:39 child every year. And it's sad.
00:37:39 --> 00:37:46 And it really is sad. But I'm also glad that we talked about it because it really,
00:37:46 --> 00:37:51 that was a really helpful episode for me because it just kind of validated things
00:37:51 --> 00:37:54 and put things in perspective for me personally.
00:37:54 --> 00:37:58 So thanks for being on the other end of the mic for that one.
00:37:58 --> 00:38:02 I appreciated that a lot. And I got a lot out of it because,
00:38:02 --> 00:38:07 you know, and hearing you talk about like how you go grocery shopping on the
00:38:07 --> 00:38:11 weekends with your daughter and you go to brunch with her and her spouse and
00:38:11 --> 00:38:14 your husband and you guys do that every single weekend.
00:38:14 --> 00:38:23 And so that opened up, you know, the grief that I feel and the loss of the relationship
00:38:23 --> 00:38:28 with my mother and realizing I will never have that, you know,
00:38:28 --> 00:38:29 and I've realized that for a long time.
00:38:29 --> 00:38:35 But it doesn't change the fact when I hear about those stories And I'm so grateful
00:38:35 --> 00:38:40 that you have those experiences But also it brings up in me that I will never
00:38:40 --> 00:38:44 have that And it's hard It is really, really hard for me.
00:38:45 --> 00:38:52 I know it is. I know it is. And it is interesting, though, how helpful—I can
00:38:52 --> 00:38:57 only speak for myself—it's interesting to me how helpful it is when we vocalize that.
00:38:57 --> 00:39:01 I think it's just kind of putting it out in the air because there's someone
00:39:01 --> 00:39:07 who's hearing this conversation who maybe also doesn't have the relationship
00:39:07 --> 00:39:10 that they wanted to have with their child or with their parent or with a sibling.
00:39:10 --> 00:39:14 And we're out there saying
00:39:14 --> 00:39:19 we get it we get it we've experienced it we understand how that feels it sucks
00:39:19 --> 00:39:27 we wish it weren't that way but then you you also at the same time can acknowledge
00:39:27 --> 00:39:32 wow i have an amazing husband and i have two incredible children and i have a community of
00:39:33 --> 00:39:39 chosen friends in my like chosen family in my life who have already proven themselves
00:39:39 --> 00:39:46 to be far more engaged and supportive and loving than most families will ever be.
00:39:46 --> 00:39:49 So there's a give and a get, right?
00:39:49 --> 00:39:53 Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. And now here we are.
00:39:53 --> 00:40:02 Now here we are, 39 minutes later, recapping three months worth of conversations and experiences.
00:40:02 --> 00:40:07 And I just love that we've had this time and I hope that...
00:40:07 --> 00:40:12 People can take away whatever they need to take away to just feel better,
00:40:12 --> 00:40:14 to feel less alone, to feel more supported.
00:40:15 --> 00:40:19 And we're coming back. We're coming back for season four.
00:40:19 --> 00:40:23 And you and I have talked a lot about what we want that to look like.
00:40:23 --> 00:40:27 We still want to bring in new voices.
00:40:27 --> 00:40:34 And that's a goal for us this season. You and I, between you moving and us having
00:40:34 --> 00:40:40 a family crisis in my family that took away a lot of time, I was barely home this winter.
00:40:41 --> 00:40:45 You know, you and I are giving ourselves a little bit of grace to not have to
00:40:45 --> 00:40:51 lay everything out perfectly right, you know, right from the jump in episode one of season four.
00:40:51 --> 00:40:57 So we've got our plans and we've got our episode calendar and it's a rich one.
00:40:57 --> 00:41:00 It's an exciting one. And we're going to pop in a lot of surprises.
00:41:01 --> 00:41:07 Do you want to mention that people can find us more actively on other social
00:41:07 --> 00:41:10 media sites or shall I? You go. I would love to.
00:41:10 --> 00:41:13 So we're actually going to be doing like live events, TikTok live,
00:41:14 --> 00:41:19 Instagram live, all the live things. and then it'll open it up for more interactive
00:41:19 --> 00:41:25 engagements to have you guys ask us questions right there on the spot, things like that.
00:41:25 --> 00:41:29 If you've never experienced a live social media interaction,
00:41:29 --> 00:41:32 it is absolutely amazing. I highly, highly recommend.
00:41:32 --> 00:41:37 In fact, every Monday night on TikTok, I do mental health Mondays and I pick
00:41:37 --> 00:41:42 a specific topic and I, you know, share my own personal experience with that,
00:41:42 --> 00:41:44 you know, and it's absolutely amazing.
00:41:45 --> 00:41:49 I have people that talk about it in other lives, TikTok lives.
00:41:49 --> 00:41:52 Oh my gosh, you got to come check out Natasha's Monday nights.
00:41:52 --> 00:41:57 I'd love to have you there. My handle is Natasha J. Layton on all my socials.
00:41:57 --> 00:42:01 If you ever want to check it out on Monday nights at 9 30 Eastern time.
00:42:01 --> 00:42:05 And I'm going to say, I'm, I am really, really, really excited about doing this
00:42:05 --> 00:42:07 with you because I have been.
00:42:08 --> 00:42:13 Well, you know I'm creeping on your TikToks because I'm always there and I'm always popping in.
00:42:13 --> 00:42:18 But you, in the same way that you kind of just took the mic and ran with it
00:42:18 --> 00:42:19 when we started doing this together,
00:42:19 --> 00:42:25 you did the same exact thing with your platform on TikTok and have just created
00:42:25 --> 00:42:33 such an unbelievably safe and powerful platform where people can come and people
00:42:33 --> 00:42:37 can be vulnerable and where you're vulnerable.
00:42:37 --> 00:42:43 And where people can find connection and community.
00:42:44 --> 00:42:48 And it is absolutely beautiful, not just what you're doing, but how you're doing it.
00:42:48 --> 00:42:53 So I, you know, I'm kind of a little TikTok baby and you and I joke about that
00:42:53 --> 00:42:57 all the time because I have, you know, like my 400 followers or whatever it is and you have like 80%.
00:42:57 --> 00:43:00 Billion at this point. Actually, I just hit a big milestone.
00:43:00 --> 00:43:03 You did. You hit 10 followers, didn't you?
00:43:03 --> 00:43:08 Yes, yesterday. I knew it. I've been watching and I missed it.
00:43:08 --> 00:43:12 I really had been watching, watching and figuring it was going to be today or tomorrow or yesterday.
00:43:12 --> 00:43:16 And that's a big deal. That's a really big deal. And it's because you've been
00:43:16 --> 00:43:20 so consistent and because of the content that you're creating.
00:43:20 --> 00:43:24 And so I'm excited because when I'm on TikTok, I'm on as the Help Hub,
00:43:24 --> 00:43:27 which is my mental health resources platform.
00:43:27 --> 00:43:30 And Natasha, you're on as you and
00:43:30 --> 00:43:35 then you and I both share the Survivors podcast TikTok account as well.
00:43:35 --> 00:43:40 So we're going to be doing lives all over the place, all over TikTok on all of those platforms.
00:43:40 --> 00:43:46 But we're going to start doing things differently in a way that hopefully will
00:43:46 --> 00:43:49 get more people involved in the conversation in real time. And that's the whole point.
00:43:50 --> 00:43:54 So looking ahead to season four, I'm just excited for all of it.
00:43:54 --> 00:43:56 That's all I have to say. I'm just glad that we get to do it together.
00:43:57 --> 00:44:00 I'm glad that we get to keep surviving together, you and I and everybody else
00:44:00 --> 00:44:01 who's part of this community.
00:44:02 --> 00:44:05 Absolutely. I am so very grateful for each and every one of you that is here
00:44:05 --> 00:44:09 and that listens and for my dearest sweet friend, Lisa.
00:44:09 --> 00:44:13 Well, onward to season four. We'll see you guys next week.
00:44:13 --> 00:44:18 Keep surviving. have a good one thanks so much for listening and for being part
00:44:18 --> 00:44:20 of the survivors community,
00:44:20 --> 00:44:24 no matter where you are in your story you're not alone and you're definitely
00:44:24 --> 00:44:29 not broken healing takes time and it looks different for everyone the fact that
00:44:29 --> 00:44:33 you're still here and still trying means you're already doing the hard work.
00:44:34 --> 00:44:38 If something in today's conversation resonated with you, please share it with
00:44:38 --> 00:44:39 someone who might need to hear it too.
00:44:39 --> 00:44:44 That's how we keep these conversations going and remind each other that there's always hope.
00:44:45 --> 00:44:48 And if you or someone you know is struggling, please remember,
00:44:48 --> 00:44:49 help is always out there.
00:44:49 --> 00:44:54 You can call or text 988 anytime to reach a trained crisis counselor like me.
00:44:54 --> 00:44:57 And for more mental health resources, tools, treatment options,
00:44:58 --> 00:45:01 and content to support your mental health, visit thehelphub.co.
00:45:02 --> 00:45:05 We're so grateful you're part of the Survivors family, and we'll be back next
00:45:05 --> 00:45:09 week with another honest conversation about life after the hardest things.
00:45:09 --> 00:45:13 Until then, take care of yourself and your people, and keep surviving.