*WARNING: This podcast mentions suicide & trauma and may be triggering.
Episode Summary
Part one of a two-part conversation with twins Jake and Joe Sharp about losing their 16-year-old brother Sam to suicide. They focus on who Sam was—his humor, kindness, athleticism, and faith—and share the shock, confusion, and enduring grief their family experienced.
The episode explores sibling loss, the blend of grief and gratitude, and how Sam’s memory has shaped their advocacy; part two will cover men's mental health, shame, and how they turned pain into purpose.
Episode Sponsored by The HelpHUB™
Struggling with your mental health? Feeling lost, overwhelmed, or just alone? Well, you're not. Welcome to The HelpHUB™—your online destination for mental health resources, treatment options, content, and tools to help meet you exactly where you are in the moment. Visit TheHelpHUB.co to get started.
Topics
- The impact of losing a brother to suicide
- The journey from grief to advocacy
- The importance of honesty and connection in mental health
- Breaking stigma around men's mental health
- The role of social media in mental health awareness
- The significance of shared stories in healing
- The evolution of grief over time
- The importance of community and support systems
Takeaways
- Sharing pain openly can foster healing and connection
- Men's mental health needs more honest conversations
- Loss can be a catalyst for positive change and advocacy
- Connection and community are vital in overcoming shame
- Grief evolves but never fully disappears, it changes form
- Authenticity in sharing stories can inspire others to seek help
- Small steps every day contribute to healing
- Breaking societal stigma around mental health is crucial
Chapters
00:00 - Introduction to Jake and Joe Sharp's story 02:25 - The loss of Sam and initial reactions 05:27 - From grief to purpose: starting on social media 08:14 - Men's mental health and societal expectations 11:32 - Open communication about pain and mental health 14:53 - Addressing shame and mental health struggles 18:46 - The power of connection and shared vulnerability 22:08 - How grief changes over time 25:40 - Memorial traditions and honoring loved ones 29:30 - Advice for men struggling with mental health 33:22 - Words of comfort for siblings left behindMental Health Resources
- If you or someone you know is struggling, please call 988 for help.
- The Survivors Podcast Website – https://thesurvivors.net/
- National Domestic Violence Hotline – Call 1-800-799-SAFE (7223)
- Surviving: Finding Hope After Suicide Loss (Familius Books)
- The HelpHUB™ – Mental health resources, tools, and support networks – https://www.thehelphub.co/
- To connect with Jake & Joe, find them at @jduofit on all social platforms.
Follow & Connect With Us
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See you next week! In the meantime, keep surviving.
00:00:00 --> 00:00:04 Hey friends, before we dive into this week's episode, just a heads up.
00:00:04 --> 00:00:08 Our podcast talks about suicide, sexual abuse, and other trauma,
00:00:09 --> 00:00:12 and some of what you hear may be triggering. So please listen with care.
00:00:13 --> 00:00:18 This is The Survivors, real stories, raw conversations, and the truth about
00:00:18 --> 00:00:21 what it means to keep going after the hardest things.
00:00:21 --> 00:00:24 We're so glad you're here. Let's keep surviving together.
00:00:25 --> 00:00:28 Before we jump into this week's episode, we want you to know that this is the
00:00:28 --> 00:00:32 first of our two-part conversation with Jake and Joe Sharp about losing their
00:00:32 --> 00:00:34 16-year-old brother, Sam, to suicide.
00:00:35 --> 00:00:39 Today, we're getting to know Sam, hearing about the brother they loved and lost,
00:00:39 --> 00:00:42 and talking about the unimaginable grief that followed his death.
00:00:43 --> 00:00:45 Here's part one of our conversation with Jake and Joe.
00:00:46 --> 00:00:51 I just wish that everybody could have been here about six minutes ago when our
00:00:51 --> 00:00:58 guests today, Jake and Joe Sharp, popped on the screen and Jake is full Michael
00:00:58 --> 00:01:01 Jackson, red coat from Thriller.
00:01:02 --> 00:01:05 And I almost fell off my chair. It was the greatest part of my day.
00:01:06 --> 00:01:08 I just want you to know that. Welcome to the show, guys.
00:01:08 --> 00:01:13 Thanks for having us. We hope that surprised someone because we didn't even plan that.
00:01:14 --> 00:01:18 Yeah, and I should have kept it on. but I was just testing it out.
00:01:19 --> 00:01:25 I was seeing how the environment was. Read the room. Yeah, yeah. How did I do?
00:01:25 --> 00:01:29 No, I think it was great. It was a good response. Yeah, it was a great response.
00:01:29 --> 00:01:32 Exactly what we were looking for. Great, great, because I lost my mind.
00:01:32 --> 00:01:36 So guys, first of all, thank you so much for being here. We appreciate it.
00:01:36 --> 00:01:40 We've been planning on this conversation for a while now and I can't believe
00:01:40 --> 00:01:45 it's finally here. So we're excited just to dive in. So you are so many different things.
00:01:45 --> 00:01:49 You are twin brothers. Most people will hear the audio of this.
00:01:49 --> 00:01:52 You'll see clips, but most people will have the audio.
00:01:52 --> 00:01:57 I am very comfortable now with who is Joe and who is Jake. Joe is on the left.
00:01:57 --> 00:01:58 Jake is in the white t-shirt on the right.
00:01:59 --> 00:02:03 You guys are fitness coaches. You are mental health advocates.
00:02:03 --> 00:02:08 You are the founders of J Duo Fit, and you are the brother of Sam.
00:02:08 --> 00:02:13 And that is one of the main reasons why we're here, why we're having this conversation.
00:02:13 --> 00:02:16 It's going to be a very personal conversation and we're so glad that you're
00:02:16 --> 00:02:19 here for it. So we're just going to dive in if that's okay.
00:02:20 --> 00:02:28 On March 13th, 2020, six years ago, your lives changed forever when your little
00:02:28 --> 00:02:31 brother Sam took his life. He was 16. Is that right?
00:02:33 --> 00:02:41 Okay. So what we like to do on the pod is focus an awful lot more on how someone
00:02:41 --> 00:02:43 lived than how someone may have passed away.
00:02:43 --> 00:02:49 And since Natasha and I have so many people in our lives who we've lost to suicide,
00:02:50 --> 00:02:52 we love to focus on who the people were.
00:02:52 --> 00:02:57 So before we do anything else, talk about anything else, like just start with
00:02:57 --> 00:03:01 Sam. Tell us about your little brother. How did he live?
00:03:01 --> 00:03:03 Who was he? What did he love?
00:03:04 --> 00:03:08 I think that's an amazing start. And I think that's an amazing way that you
00:03:08 --> 00:03:14 guys create connection between people is talking about the person.
00:03:15 --> 00:03:19 I think that's what we could all do a little bit better. Sam was and is the
00:03:19 --> 00:03:22 biggest light that we have in our life.
00:03:23 --> 00:03:26 He made you smile like no one else could.
00:03:26 --> 00:03:33 And he made you feel unique and special to him. He like he had a way of creating
00:03:33 --> 00:03:38 this personal connection with you like you were the only person in the world that mattered.
00:03:39 --> 00:03:43 And he could do that with every single person in his life and i know that he
00:03:43 --> 00:03:49 did that with us individually with our family members with our mom and dad but i think that's,
00:03:50 --> 00:03:55 my favorite thing about my little brother sam is that he he was there for you
00:03:55 --> 00:04:00 in the dark times he was there after you made a mistake he was there to lift
00:04:00 --> 00:04:04 you up he's there to make you laugh and he did it to you personally.
00:04:05 --> 00:04:08 Yeah, he was so good.
00:04:09 --> 00:04:17 After he passed, we have tons of emails, messages, texts about how he impacted
00:04:17 --> 00:04:20 their life. And it was super...
00:04:21 --> 00:04:26 Cool but not necessarily cool but super sad to see sam,
00:04:27 --> 00:04:31 not receiving those messages because there was too many there was so many people
00:04:31 --> 00:04:36 that we didn't even know yeah that were just in high school with him that were
00:04:36 --> 00:04:41 not even like really close friends but they felt like sam was their best friend because
00:04:42 --> 00:04:46 not that sam was fake but because sam genuinely cared about,
00:04:47 --> 00:04:52 lifting people up he really cared about making people smile in their own way
00:04:52 --> 00:04:57 he was friends to all that love that about him and,
00:04:58 --> 00:05:04 look up to that he was athletic he was the most athletic in our family which
00:05:04 --> 00:05:10 sucks but you know i think that's and this is this is after we were talking
00:05:10 --> 00:05:13 about how jacked you both are so,
00:05:14 --> 00:05:19 it takes a lot of us being humble to admit like hey he was the most athletic
00:05:19 --> 00:05:24 in our family yeah yeah yeah these guys have some some amazing biceps.
00:05:26 --> 00:05:32 That's just kind kind but uh no he really was like we still are connected with
00:05:32 --> 00:05:36 this rugby team yeah and they still know sam And they still,
00:05:36 --> 00:05:39 like every year they get together to remember him.
00:05:39 --> 00:05:43 Even the kids that don't know him. Yeah. Because it's been six years,
00:05:43 --> 00:05:48 but they grew up knowing brothers that did or just coaches that did.
00:05:49 --> 00:05:55 And he was a leader. He was, because he was so kind and because his energy was,
00:05:56 --> 00:05:59 so good, he was also the funniest.
00:06:00 --> 00:06:07 Joe and I, I think we have our right humor. But I think it's because of how we grew up with Sam.
00:06:08 --> 00:06:13 He would make us, he would make our whole family die like almost every night,
00:06:13 --> 00:06:16 whether it was like Sunday nights when we're watching movies together,
00:06:17 --> 00:06:20 making our mom laugh until she cried.
00:06:20 --> 00:06:25 It was, he really was the funniest and he's great at making himself look like
00:06:25 --> 00:06:28 a fool. Like he did not care.
00:06:28 --> 00:06:33 And I aspire to be that. I really do. Like he, he really does not care.
00:06:33 --> 00:06:37 And he, he would just go insane. So that's, that's a little.
00:06:37 --> 00:06:40 And the last best thing I would probably add, cherry on top,
00:06:41 --> 00:06:46 I would describe him as a very true Christian, not a very judgy Christian or
00:06:46 --> 00:06:51 like someone that thought they were better than you, but he was in the depths with you.
00:06:52 --> 00:06:56 He loved you and he was just the biggest light.
00:06:58 --> 00:07:02 I love that, that he embodied that and that he was a man of faith.
00:07:03 --> 00:07:06 That's that's a beautiful thing and all of these things i'm just thinking about
00:07:06 --> 00:07:10 just kind of taking in everything that you were saying about him and how he
00:07:10 --> 00:07:13 was with other people and how he lifted other people and befriended other people
00:07:13 --> 00:07:15 and like that's a gift guys that is such,
00:07:15 --> 00:07:21 a rare and beautiful gift and that gift of laughter i mean i know what it feels
00:07:21 --> 00:07:23 like we have two daughters they're grown,
00:07:23 --> 00:07:25 and they're on their own but,
00:07:26 --> 00:07:29 when we get together that's like my favorite thing in the world to do is just
00:07:29 --> 00:07:31 sit and laugh with my kids.
00:07:31 --> 00:07:36 And, you know, that's one of the most beautiful qualities, in my opinion,
00:07:36 --> 00:07:40 that somebody can bring to a relationship or to a family. So I love that you
00:07:40 --> 00:07:42 had that. And I have to make one comment.
00:07:42 --> 00:07:46 I was listening to you and I do this too. And I think maybe that's why I picked
00:07:46 --> 00:07:49 it out. You guys toggle back and forth. And I wonder if this is intentional.
00:07:49 --> 00:07:53 You toggle back and forth saying, talking about him kind of past tense and then
00:07:53 --> 00:07:54 talking about him present tense.
00:07:55 --> 00:07:59 And I love that you do that. And I wonder if that's intentional because his
00:07:59 --> 00:08:00 spirit is very much here.
00:08:02 --> 00:08:03 Is that an intentional thing?
00:08:04 --> 00:08:08 Maybe, maybe not, but we do like, we truly believe that his spirit is still
00:08:08 --> 00:08:12 here and that his impact has only gotten bigger.
00:08:13 --> 00:08:19 Like, not that like we're super like, oh yeah, we're grateful that he's not
00:08:19 --> 00:08:25 here like physically anymore, but like his impact and his light has only touched even more people.
00:08:25 --> 00:08:29 And he's, he's still with us just in a different way. Yeah.
00:08:30 --> 00:08:35 Well, he's got his brothers to thank for that. Talk about family effort, team effort.
00:08:36 --> 00:08:41 I love that, that you're all kind of doing what you're doing together because
00:08:41 --> 00:08:43 he's working with you, doing it with you.
00:08:44 --> 00:08:50 So I wonder if that gives you guys any comfort or sense of including him.
00:08:51 --> 00:08:56 In a way, yeah. I think it's cool that our family, in their own ways,
00:08:57 --> 00:09:01 have honored him or tried to make him proud.
00:09:03 --> 00:09:07 And it's cool to see our brothers and sisters, but also our parents,
00:09:07 --> 00:09:10 remember him. I think that's important to remember him.
00:09:11 --> 00:09:19 But there isn't anything that I wouldn't give up to have him here. Like, no matter the...
00:09:20 --> 00:09:24 The things that we're doing that we love and will continue to do,
00:09:24 --> 00:09:29 it just doesn't make it better, I think.
00:09:30 --> 00:09:37 Yeah. And I think we do really know that he is doing this work with us.
00:09:38 --> 00:09:45 Creating a lot of noise around mental health and helping people drop shame or
00:09:45 --> 00:09:48 whatever we're doing. We know that he's with us.
00:09:48 --> 00:09:52 And we'll be totally honest. we both have not been super like,
00:09:52 --> 00:09:54 oh my gosh, I feel Sam with me.
00:09:54 --> 00:10:00 Like that's one that I wish I had more and I haven't experienced is like feeling
00:10:00 --> 00:10:04 his presence or his spirit with me like through this work, but we know he is.
00:10:05 --> 00:10:09 It's just, I don't know why. I've always been confused on why, like, hey, why?
00:10:09 --> 00:10:14 So many people have had experiences like with someone that they'd lost and felt
00:10:14 --> 00:10:17 them. I'm like, I haven't felt a thing, but I must still do this work because
00:10:17 --> 00:10:19 I know Sam's helping out.
00:10:20 --> 00:10:24 Yeah, connection, I think, comes in very interesting ways.
00:10:24 --> 00:10:27 I wish, I don't know, this made me, what you just said made me think about something
00:10:27 --> 00:10:31 that's been on my own mind lately in terms of feeling that connection.
00:10:31 --> 00:10:34 So my dad's been gone. I lost my dad to suicide when I was 10.
00:10:35 --> 00:10:40 I didn't find out about it until I was 45 years old. I thought it was a heart attack for 35 years.
00:10:41 --> 00:10:47 And I never dream about my dad Never, ever, ever I'm not sure if I've ever,
00:10:47 --> 00:10:51 consciously dreamt about my dad And so it does for me kind of feel like there's
00:10:51 --> 00:10:55 a disconnect in some way I think about him every day His picture is right here
00:10:55 --> 00:10:57 next to me And talk about him all the time But,
00:10:58 --> 00:11:02 yeah, and I just keep thinking, okay You know, it will happen when it happens
00:11:02 --> 00:11:07 And I find other ways to feel that connection But I think it's just so individual,
00:11:08 --> 00:11:11 for everybody It's just so unique for everybody in that way Yeah.
00:11:11 --> 00:11:15 Even like siblings have experienced some ways to connect, but like me and you
00:11:15 --> 00:11:22 always talk about like how it's frustrating that we haven't felt him and stuff, but we'll, we'll see.
00:11:22 --> 00:11:27 We're going to still keep on trying to do good work. Yeah. Do you guys ever go out in nature?
00:11:28 --> 00:11:36 Tried to. Tried to. Sam, actually, where his last moments of his life were up
00:11:36 --> 00:11:40 north, like Arizona, like Sholo area. It's the forest.
00:11:40 --> 00:11:42 And that's, he loved nature.
00:11:43 --> 00:11:46 And that's probably the closest I've been to, like, feeling his spirit.
00:11:47 --> 00:11:50 Whether that's because of nature or that's the last place he was.
00:11:51 --> 00:11:54 But, yeah, we try to get back into nature.
00:11:55 --> 00:12:00 I know that for me having lost so many family members i don't know if you guys
00:12:00 --> 00:12:04 know this but i've lost five brothers to suicide oh my gosh and also my dad
00:12:04 --> 00:12:09 cancer and so that's a lot of loss to carry and.
00:12:10 --> 00:12:14 My family my my children and my husband and i went on a seven-month rv journey
00:12:14 --> 00:12:19 and we traveled all over the country and saw some of the most beautiful places in this country and And,
00:12:20 --> 00:12:26 it was interesting in different parks, national parks, I would feel each of
00:12:26 --> 00:12:28 them different depending on where it was.
00:12:29 --> 00:12:35 Maybe they came to mind. But I know that for me, I feel them the most when I'm
00:12:35 --> 00:12:42 in nature and it's something with the quiet and it allows my mind to be clear and,
00:12:42 --> 00:12:45 the ability to receive them better, I guess.
00:12:45 --> 00:12:49 But I've also dreamt of them. I've also had an experience where my,
00:12:50 --> 00:12:53 I don't remember if it was my second or my third suicide attempt,
00:12:53 --> 00:13:00 I actually felt two of them there with me in those moments as I was probably drifting off to die.
00:13:01 --> 00:13:04 And I felt them there with me. And I felt like they're the ones that kept me here.
00:13:06 --> 00:13:10 That's powerful. Yeah, thanks for sharing that. Yeah, that's super real.
00:13:10 --> 00:13:15 And well, thank you both, both going through so much.
00:13:16 --> 00:13:18 Oh, we're all going through it, you know? Super hard.
00:13:19 --> 00:13:22 Yeah, but no, and we are for you too.
00:13:22 --> 00:13:25 And yet at the same time, it's a weird thing to feel gratitude about.
00:13:25 --> 00:13:28 I don't know if you guys feel this with everything and we'll get,
00:13:28 --> 00:13:31 we'll dive deeper into what you guys have done.
00:13:31 --> 00:13:36 We'll talk about kind of the story of how you lost Sam, if you're comfortable with that.
00:13:36 --> 00:13:40 And then kind of what you're, what you're doing, what the after looks like and
00:13:40 --> 00:13:44 how you got into advocacy and, and mental health awareness and all of what you're
00:13:44 --> 00:13:47 doing now. But it's a weird thing. Like I spend a lot of time.
00:13:47 --> 00:13:50 I wonder if the three of you feel the same way. Natasha, I know you do, but...
00:13:51 --> 00:13:58 Just feeling this mixture of just the grief that's always there and is never going to be gone.
00:13:58 --> 00:14:01 But then there's this incredible gratitude to be able to connect with people
00:14:01 --> 00:14:05 like you. I would never have met Natasha, who's like family to me now,
00:14:05 --> 00:14:08 were it not for everything that I went through.
00:14:08 --> 00:14:12 And the people and the organizations that I'm involved in and all these things.
00:14:12 --> 00:14:19 And it's like that grief-joy battle all the time that we're always kind of trying to...
00:14:21 --> 00:14:26 To coexist within. And I just find myself saying I feel grateful more often
00:14:26 --> 00:14:28 than I feel like I'm saying anything else. You know what I mean?
00:14:29 --> 00:14:32 Yeah. And sometimes like, I don't know if you guys relate to this,
00:14:32 --> 00:14:37 but like the grief sometimes convinces me that like, I don't experience a lot
00:14:37 --> 00:14:38 of joy anymore because Sam's gone.
00:14:38 --> 00:14:44 Or like, it has a funny way of convincing me that like, sometimes the life is
00:14:44 --> 00:14:49 so hard to feel any joy or feel the light anymore because Sam's gone.
00:14:49 --> 00:14:55 I think the grief, like, I feel that a lot sometimes when I feel grief deeply.
00:14:56 --> 00:15:00 Well, I actually heard a theory recently that really resonated with me,
00:15:00 --> 00:15:03 and it was that, you know how they talk about grief coming in waves?
00:15:04 --> 00:15:08 But what if actually grief is the ocean? Because it's constantly there.
00:15:09 --> 00:15:12 And it's joy and happiness that comes in waves.
00:15:13 --> 00:15:18 That's interesting. Because, you know, the grief is constantly there. You never forget it.
00:15:19 --> 00:15:25 And it's fighting with yourself to allow the waves of joy and happiness to come in.
00:15:25 --> 00:15:29 So I just, when I heard that theory, I was like, that makes so much sense.
00:15:29 --> 00:15:34 People talk about how do you learn to carry, you know, especially for me,
00:15:34 --> 00:15:36 having lost so many brothers and.
00:15:38 --> 00:15:43 It can be a lot. And I sometimes have to actively like force myself to be really
00:15:43 --> 00:15:48 present in the moment and not just drowning in grief all the time.
00:15:48 --> 00:15:50 So that's why I was like, yeah, it's grief is the ocean.
00:15:51 --> 00:15:54 Yeah, that's a really unique and unusual way to think about it.
00:15:54 --> 00:15:55 I've never even considered it like that.
00:15:55 --> 00:15:59 And it really, you talk about like an aha moment with a thought that just kind
00:15:59 --> 00:16:03 of hits you and exposes something in a totally different way.
00:16:03 --> 00:16:06 That's a wild, that's a wild image. I'm glad you shared that.
00:16:07 --> 00:16:08 Kept it all to yourself all this time.
00:16:09 --> 00:16:12 Just heard it last week. Just heard it. Okay, all right, okay,
00:16:12 --> 00:16:14 all right. It's a recent finding. Yeah, right, right, right.
00:16:14 --> 00:16:15 I can't be too angry at her.
00:16:18 --> 00:16:21 So let's let people know, because we've been chatting for a little bit.
00:16:21 --> 00:16:25 Let's let people know if you guys are comfortable what happened.
00:16:26 --> 00:16:28 Take us back. It's been over six years now.
00:16:28 --> 00:16:30 It was March 13th, right?
00:16:31 --> 00:16:34 2020. Right around when COVID was ramping up.
00:16:34 --> 00:16:42 2020, yeah. It was literally, I think, the day that school stopped for a lot
00:16:42 --> 00:16:47 of people was March 13th. I'm pretty sure. Yeah, I think you're right.
00:16:49 --> 00:16:53 Yeah, God, what a crazy time. That whole month. So set the stage,
00:16:53 --> 00:16:57 set it up. Where were you? You said, I know the story.
00:16:58 --> 00:16:59 I know that Sam was away.
00:17:00 --> 00:17:05 Was Sam away or were you two on a mission? We were away. Okay, okay.
00:17:05 --> 00:17:10 So set it up. Let us know. Share what happened. How did you find out?
00:17:10 --> 00:17:15 Whatever you feel people should know to understand the situation. Just setting it up.
00:17:16 --> 00:17:23 Me and Jake left to Jake went to Tijuana on a church mission and then I went
00:17:23 --> 00:17:28 to Puebla Mexico so we were both in Mexico just kind of far apart and Jake left in,
00:17:29 --> 00:17:37 August August of 2019 and then I left in November of 2019 and we were just out
00:17:37 --> 00:17:42 there for a couple months If you know anything about LDS missions, it's.
00:17:44 --> 00:17:45 Supposed to be two years.
00:17:45 --> 00:17:53 And so we thought that we would serve for two years and then come back and see,
00:17:53 --> 00:17:54 our little brother again.
00:17:55 --> 00:18:04 And unfortunately, March 13, 2020, we both got a call from our mom and dad.
00:18:04 --> 00:18:11 And they were up north in Arizona and they were at my grandparents' cabin.
00:18:11 --> 00:18:23 And we knew that Sam had struggled with his mental health a little bit before because he was,
00:18:24 --> 00:18:30 kind of doing the online school thing and he only went out with his friends.
00:18:30 --> 00:18:34 Sometimes a lot of his friends didn't kind of know what he was going through
00:18:34 --> 00:18:41 but some of our family knew that he struggled a little bit but didn't know to an extent to,
00:18:41 --> 00:18:48 that he was suicidal or had suicidal ideations and uh,
00:18:49 --> 00:18:54 And no one knew that he had a plan again. My family thought he was in a better
00:18:54 --> 00:18:56 place, which I think we've talked to a lot of people.
00:18:57 --> 00:19:03 Sometimes it's like that, where they seem very, very happy and very in a good
00:19:03 --> 00:19:07 spot because maybe they've made that decision or something.
00:19:09 --> 00:19:12 And so they went to spring break.
00:19:12 --> 00:19:18 They were up there just with my immediate family and my grandma and grandpa.
00:19:18 --> 00:19:27 Out of their cabin and we got that call that Friday night that Sam took his
00:19:27 --> 00:19:32 life and me and Jake and Jake could talk about a little bit of what he experienced but,
00:19:34 --> 00:19:36 it's a pain that you can't even describe because,
00:19:38 --> 00:19:43 you're so blindsided and you're so angry, sad and.
00:19:45 --> 00:19:52 Left in the dark and And I remember being so mad at, not even at Sam,
00:19:52 --> 00:19:57 but at God, just for letting him do this or whatever.
00:19:59 --> 00:20:02 It's just so much confusion and anger, I think I felt.
00:20:03 --> 00:20:12 And we had to wait a couple days to come home on planes and come home for the
00:20:12 --> 00:20:15 funeral and stuff. And COVID was happening around that time,
00:20:15 --> 00:20:16 so it was kind of weird. Yeah.
00:20:17 --> 00:20:21 But I remember seeing, walking into that, uh,
00:20:23 --> 00:20:27 the stupid funeral home and like seeing his body there,
00:20:28 --> 00:20:34 just feeling so weird and so like this is not my brother and so again just pissed,
00:20:35 --> 00:20:39 like why why did this have to happen.
00:20:42 --> 00:20:47 Why did um why did i go to mexico and try to like do something good and serve
00:20:47 --> 00:20:52 people and this is like this is what I'm left with is my little brother is gone.
00:20:52 --> 00:20:55 And yeah, just angry.
00:20:56 --> 00:21:00 Hey, it's Lisa Sugarman, co-host of the Survivors and founder of The Help Hub.
00:21:01 --> 00:21:05 If you're listening right now and you're not okay, if you're feeling overwhelmed,
00:21:05 --> 00:21:09 stuck, or like you're carrying more than you can handle, please know you don't
00:21:09 --> 00:21:11 have to go through it alone.
00:21:11 --> 00:21:18 You can call or text 988 or chat online at 988lifeline.org to connect with trained
00:21:18 --> 00:21:21 counselors like me who are there to listen to you. and support you in the moment.
00:21:22 --> 00:21:27 Reaching out is a brave first step and you owe it to yourself because your life
00:21:27 --> 00:21:32 matters, your story matters and help is always just three numbers away.
00:21:35 --> 00:21:39 How many of you are there all together, kids in your family?
00:21:39 --> 00:21:44 There's seven of us, yeah. Okay. Now or we're total?
00:21:45 --> 00:21:51 Yeah, we're total. Six, yeah, six now. Okay, okay. We're so sorry, guys.
00:21:51 --> 00:21:58 There's no amount of sorry that can possibly do it justice. We're just so sorry, really.
00:22:00 --> 00:22:04 I've heard you guys, I've watched a lot of your videos. I found you,
00:22:04 --> 00:22:08 I don't remember if it was TikTok first or Instagram first, but I know you have
00:22:08 --> 00:22:10 a very big presence on both.
00:22:10 --> 00:22:14 And you've been doing an incredible amount of advocacy work.
00:22:15 --> 00:22:18 And you're reaching so many people, guys. You're reaching so many people with,
00:22:19 --> 00:22:25 your message of support and openness and just letting people get to know Sam.
00:22:25 --> 00:22:29 I've heard you on some of your videos talk really openly about the fact that,
00:22:29 --> 00:22:32 like you just said, he was struggling beneath the surface.
00:22:32 --> 00:22:37 You didn't know he was masking a lot of clearly what was depression my father
00:22:37 --> 00:22:39 was like that had no idea whatsoever,
00:22:40 --> 00:22:44 you know you said that he battled anxiety and shame and depression and ocd on
00:22:44 --> 00:22:49 some of the videos that i saw and i one really struck me it's it was one where
00:22:49 --> 00:22:54 you talked about it joe jake i don't know which one of you it was that said it but he felt trapped,
00:22:55 --> 00:22:59 in the darkness when you look back now do you do you understand when you look
00:22:59 --> 00:23:04 back at that time like what do you think that was do you do was was it a thing
00:23:04 --> 00:23:09 was it something or was it do you think just just a wiring just a mental illness just,
00:23:10 --> 00:23:14 just a kind of inherited darkness i guess a lot like my father must have had,
00:23:15 --> 00:23:21 well would you say both yeah it could have been i think something but it could
00:23:21 --> 00:23:23 also be just it could be like shame,
00:23:24 --> 00:23:26 just feeling trapped in shame and.
00:23:28 --> 00:23:32 Playing into the lies that he was not enough or,
00:23:33 --> 00:23:40 there was not an escape from the pain that he was in or maybe the standards,
00:23:41 --> 00:23:43 he thought he had to meet.
00:23:43 --> 00:23:48 I think he felt trapped in that maybe. Yeah, I think he was blinded.
00:23:49 --> 00:23:52 Maybe some of that was the mental illness,
00:23:54 --> 00:23:57 mixed with shame or not feeling...
00:23:58 --> 00:24:05 Enough like yeah not only enough like his worth was not enough so yeah i think
00:24:05 --> 00:24:11 both like definitely a mental imbalance or a mental illness and then some shame,
00:24:13 --> 00:24:21 yeah did he leave a note yeah he did he did he wrote a pretty big one towards
00:24:21 --> 00:24:25 like his closest people, his best friend,
00:24:25 --> 00:24:27 like his best cousins,
00:24:28 --> 00:24:29 and then like friends in general.
00:24:30 --> 00:24:35 So he left a pretty big one. And he was like a very, like yeah,
00:24:35 --> 00:24:39 maybe he was LCD, but he was like very planned everything out.
00:24:39 --> 00:24:46 And so he made sure that like everything was perfect with the note and how he left it.
00:24:47 --> 00:24:50 And yeah, it's just the scene and everything.
00:24:51 --> 00:24:55 That give you any comfort the note i mean it's hard to even attach the word
00:24:55 --> 00:25:00 comfort to something like that but just that that he said whatever was in his
00:25:00 --> 00:25:05 heart for all of you did that give you guys any kind of peace in all that,
00:25:06 --> 00:25:11 i think it brought comfort and that i read it a lot just knowing that that's,
00:25:12 --> 00:25:15 some of his last like his last thoughts towards us.
00:25:16 --> 00:25:20 And it's very personal and it's very like knowing,
00:25:21 --> 00:25:28 he was we we know that he was riding that in the car before like moments before
00:25:28 --> 00:25:33 he took his life so those were truly his last thoughts and so i think,
00:25:34 --> 00:25:38 i go back to that and i read that often because it's a spring so a little bit
00:25:38 --> 00:25:43 of comfort yeah i would say the same yeah yeah i've heard again i'm going to
00:25:43 --> 00:25:48 go back to some of the videos that i've watched because i've watched a lot of you guys recently.
00:25:48 --> 00:25:54 And I've heard you both describe losing Sam as the worst pain in the world.
00:25:54 --> 00:26:00 And Natasha and I both understand multiple times what that kind of pain is.
00:26:00 --> 00:26:04 But it's interesting because you three, a loss that I don't share.
00:26:04 --> 00:26:07 I'm an only child. I never had any siblings. I lost my dad. I lost a cousin.
00:26:07 --> 00:26:13 And I lost one of my best childhood friends, you all have lost a sibling.
00:26:13 --> 00:26:19 And I think that there has to be something so uniquely painful about that.
00:26:19 --> 00:26:22 And I mean, when you say that it was the worst pain in the world,
00:26:22 --> 00:26:28 like what do you remember back or maybe still feel what that felt like for each
00:26:28 --> 00:26:30 of you in those first few days and weeks?
00:26:32 --> 00:26:35 And you know what I want to add to that? Because you experienced your twins
00:26:35 --> 00:26:40 and because you experienced the loss at the same time, each of you as different
00:26:40 --> 00:26:45 people grieving the same brother, do you think the pain looked different in each of you?
00:26:46 --> 00:26:48 Yeah, for sure. Yeah, for sure.
00:26:48 --> 00:26:53 I think maybe you play out different scenarios in your mind.
00:26:53 --> 00:26:58 You feel a lot of the same pain with the sibling, but just personal questions
00:26:58 --> 00:27:01 and personal ways to relate to that sibling.
00:27:02 --> 00:27:06 Is what makes the pain different or the same for the sibling.
00:27:06 --> 00:27:11 I think what brings that pain, thinking about how fresh it was,
00:27:11 --> 00:27:17 I think there was so much anger because of what-ifs.
00:27:17 --> 00:27:23 I think that's what I constantly did right during those couple weeks and months.
00:27:23 --> 00:27:28 After losing him is just, what if I did this? What if I stayed home from Mexico?
00:27:28 --> 00:27:32 What if I knew how to reach him better in the darkness?
00:27:32 --> 00:27:38 And then playing out the future, I think the saddest part for a sibling,
00:27:39 --> 00:27:45 and at least for me, was I don't get to have kids with him anymore or kids and
00:27:45 --> 00:27:48 families and grow up together with him anymore.
00:27:48 --> 00:27:52 I don't get to have the nights with families laughing.
00:27:53 --> 00:28:01 That's gone. How is that gone? And I met my wife after Sam passed, book.
00:28:03 --> 00:28:06 He didn't even get to meet my wife. We have 10 nieces and nephews.
00:28:08 --> 00:28:14 He hasn't met a single one of them. Yeah, I get that. I do, from a different perspective.
00:28:15 --> 00:28:18 My dad never met my husband. My dad never met my kids.
00:28:19 --> 00:28:23 He was a grandfather. He never met my kids. So, different, because it's a parent
00:28:23 --> 00:28:29 versus a child and a sibling. But, yeah, I get it. I really do.
00:28:30 --> 00:28:36 I remember we went to the cabin just this past summer for like,
00:28:37 --> 00:28:41 it's hard for our family to be there for obvious reasons, but we had all the
00:28:41 --> 00:28:44 nieces and nephews up there and we were doing like a little.
00:28:45 --> 00:28:52 Thing out in nature Sunday service and like all of our little nieces and nephews
00:28:52 --> 00:28:53 were up there like singing.
00:28:54 --> 00:29:01 A Christian song and like I just I was like bawling I was crying and like I
00:29:01 --> 00:29:07 just thought Sam like misses all these kids growing up and like,
00:29:08 --> 00:29:16 as a family it's hard for me to see that And I'm sure when I have kids of my own, I'll think of Sam.
00:29:16 --> 00:29:20 I'll think of Sam in all the big moments in my life.
00:29:21 --> 00:29:26 And that's what I thought of when I first, the first couple of weeks after losing him.
00:29:27 --> 00:29:31 With all the emotions is like realizing after a little bit like,
00:29:32 --> 00:29:36 dude, this life will be really boring without Sam. But like,
00:29:36 --> 00:29:39 he's just not going to be here for the big moments.
00:29:40 --> 00:29:43 And he had so many big moments in the future,
00:29:44 --> 00:29:50 that really sucks yeah it does suck do you guys find that with your family moments
00:29:50 --> 00:29:54 and holidays and things like that like you try to be happy and present and in
00:29:54 --> 00:29:57 the moment but at the same time you think that,
00:29:58 --> 00:30:01 they're risking this it's like you talked about it before where it's like you
00:30:01 --> 00:30:05 can't be happy like the grief and the joy just have to coexist all together
00:30:05 --> 00:30:10 at the same time and it's sometimes it's like physically exhausting And sometimes it's not possible.
00:30:10 --> 00:30:15 Sometimes it's not possible. Sometimes one overrides the other and you can't control that.
00:30:16 --> 00:30:20 No, I definitely feel that in holidays
00:30:20 --> 00:30:27 and in vacations, like being on the beach or being up at the cabin.
00:30:27 --> 00:30:33 I feel like it's hard to be present with my emotions. I feel,
00:30:34 --> 00:30:38 I think a lot of times when grief will hit, I'll go, no.
00:30:39 --> 00:30:43 At the start when i described like that pain being so,
00:30:44 --> 00:30:50 so much it was a lot of betrayal a lot of anger a lot of sadness of like why
00:30:50 --> 00:30:54 can't i have him here and why did he choose that,
00:30:55 --> 00:30:56 and then i feel like,
00:30:57 --> 00:31:04 grief looks a lot like me feeling numb but it's still,
00:31:04 --> 00:31:11 painful because i don't it it all relates back to sam so i don't even know if
00:31:11 --> 00:31:13 i'm describing that right but,
00:31:14 --> 00:31:18 i feel like bullshit is what i felt not what i felt,
00:31:19 --> 00:31:23 yeah it do you i'm curious this might i don't know if this is going to sound
00:31:24 --> 00:31:27 like a strange question if it's ever a question that anyone of the three of
00:31:27 --> 00:31:31 you have ever been asked since you've lost siblings and you do a lot of work Obviously,
00:31:32 --> 00:31:36 as mental health advocates, all three of you are in this space.
00:31:36 --> 00:31:40 Do you guys think that sibling grief gets overlooked at all in any way?
00:31:42 --> 00:31:47 It does. Absolutely. Because when a child dies, so much attention goes to the parents.
00:31:49 --> 00:31:55 I don't know that kind of loss, so I just wonder what it feels like,
00:31:56 --> 00:31:59 and if you feel like there's any aspect of that that gets overlooked,
00:31:59 --> 00:32:06 that it's like, this is your brother, but there were parents involved, and how that feels.
00:32:09 --> 00:32:15 With Corey, I experienced a different level of grief. So just a quick backstory.
00:32:15 --> 00:32:20 Clayton was the first one to take his life, and that was in 2002. I was 16. I was 28.
00:32:21 --> 00:32:25 Three years later, David took his life. Again, he was 28.
00:32:26 --> 00:32:31 I was 18, 19. And then we had an 18-year gap, and then Corey took his life.
00:32:32 --> 00:32:38 And he actually waited until he turned 28 to take his life. So the first three brothers were all 28.
00:32:39 --> 00:32:44 But by then by the time cory took his life i was a mother and cory is actually
00:32:44 --> 00:32:50 nine years younger than i am and i helped raise him and so the loss that i and my sisters felt,
00:32:51 --> 00:32:57 was similar to losing a child and i and i felt and i spoke with my sisters about
00:32:57 --> 00:33:00 that and they said they because i thought i was like why am i feeling like i've
00:33:00 --> 00:33:06 lost a child here he was not mine but they too felt that, that it was a child.
00:33:06 --> 00:33:10 And now that I'm a mother and feeling that loss and.
00:33:12 --> 00:33:15 But then, you know, then Brandon took his life. He's older than me.
00:33:15 --> 00:33:20 Monroe is also older than me. So it's these different layers of grief that I've
00:33:20 --> 00:33:21 experienced with each one.
00:33:22 --> 00:33:26 But yeah, absolutely. And what people don't realize is, especially when they're
00:33:26 --> 00:33:31 people that you've grown up with your entire life, and you create these bonds
00:33:31 --> 00:33:35 that are indescribable, really, and,
00:33:36 --> 00:33:38 those bonds that you don't experience with anybody else.
00:33:39 --> 00:33:42 And especially I guess in our case because we had a lot of trauma bonds from
00:33:43 --> 00:33:44 the way we were raised but,
00:33:46 --> 00:33:51 it's this closeness that I think that is missed out on and a lot of that you're
00:33:51 --> 00:33:55 right the attention and the comfort goes to the parents and you're standing
00:33:55 --> 00:33:57 there holding your parents up,
00:33:58 --> 00:34:03 while you're grieving because your parents are oftentimes just so inconsolable
00:34:03 --> 00:34:08 about this great loss and sometimes it just feels like well shit,
00:34:09 --> 00:34:11 what about me i need some support,
00:34:12 --> 00:34:17 that was kind of the experience i had jake and joe do you mind sharing yours,
00:34:17 --> 00:34:24 yeah and i like it's hard because like i don't blame my mom or like dad for
00:34:24 --> 00:34:31 getting like the comfort or like right or swan that but definitely Definitely...
00:34:32 --> 00:34:39 Hard as a sibling because like you said you build such deep bonds with your
00:34:39 --> 00:34:41 siblings and you build such like,
00:34:42 --> 00:34:46 my thoughts were always like I will have Sam throughout this whole life and
00:34:46 --> 00:34:51 that's usually what you said when you have them a lot longer because maybe your
00:34:51 --> 00:34:53 parents pass or something and so like,
00:34:54 --> 00:34:58 I had this whole life planned out with Sam and,
00:34:59 --> 00:35:06 people are there for the mom and dad a lot because it's so like it's your child and you raised,
00:35:07 --> 00:35:11 and i've seen my mom and dad's pain and it's like it's so hard for me to see
00:35:11 --> 00:35:16 that but like sibling loss is so,
00:35:17 --> 00:35:20 it's like blindsiding and it's so it's so,
00:35:21 --> 00:35:27 confusing when you lose someone unexpectedly and that to not have him for the
00:35:27 --> 00:35:30 rest of your life, him or her for the rest of your life is so,
00:35:31 --> 00:35:32 it's so hard. And to be forgotten.
00:35:34 --> 00:35:40 That's why we always talk about like sibling loss too, to talk about from our
00:35:40 --> 00:35:44 perspective, because we know so many people that have felt that forgot.
00:35:44 --> 00:35:49 And don't even quote me on this, but like we've seen the stats of like,
00:35:50 --> 00:35:55 it's suicide and sibling loss, but like the siblings to those that have lost
00:35:55 --> 00:36:00 someone to suicide, their chances of them taking their life skyrocket or something.
00:36:00 --> 00:36:02 I don't know what it is. Maybe you know a little bit better,
00:36:02 --> 00:36:09 but I heard that I was like, I know that it like that could be so hard because
00:36:09 --> 00:36:14 of maybe the forgotten grief or the forgotten, like, Hey, how are you doing?
00:36:14 --> 00:36:16 Do you know? 40%.
00:36:18 --> 00:36:23 The chances of a sibling committing or dying by suicide once one has goes up by 40%. Yeah.
00:36:25 --> 00:36:30 And so as we continue to lose more and more, our medical professionals are very
00:36:30 --> 00:36:31 concerned about the rest of us.
00:36:32 --> 00:36:36 I don't mean to. I'm sorry. I laugh. No, it's her coping mechanism.
00:36:36 --> 00:36:38 It's one of the things that we both do.
00:36:39 --> 00:36:44 And so, yes, there's, and we've had many medical professionals ask us to,
00:36:44 --> 00:36:47 they're like, have you guys done any DNA testing?
00:36:47 --> 00:36:51 We've all, we've been trying to find somebody to study us because it's,
00:36:52 --> 00:36:57 there's no other family in this world that we are aware of that it's all happened
00:36:57 --> 00:36:58 within the same generation.
00:36:59 --> 00:37:04 Ernest Hemingway's family, they've lost four, but it was over the course of four generations.
00:37:04 --> 00:37:08 But also, you know, ours is very multifaceted. I don't know if you guys are
00:37:08 --> 00:37:11 aware of the FLDS polygamous cult.
00:37:12 --> 00:37:13 That is where I come from.
00:37:14 --> 00:37:18 The J in my middle name stands for Jeffs. Warren Jeffs is my uncle.
00:37:18 --> 00:37:25 So there's so many layers of our family that it's so hard to pinpoint it.
00:37:25 --> 00:37:31 You know, every one of my brothers had their own reasons of why they did it.
00:37:31 --> 00:37:35 And you talk about them being the light and some of them were,
00:37:35 --> 00:37:37 but they were all incredibly funny.
00:37:39 --> 00:37:44 Looking back, I can see the darkness within them, I guess, because I recognize
00:37:44 --> 00:37:46 that myself, because I've been there.
00:37:47 --> 00:37:52 Yeah. And so I would just say to anybody who's listening that may or may not
00:37:52 --> 00:37:57 have lost a sibling to that, to just, if you recognize the darkness within yourself,
00:37:57 --> 00:37:58 chances are your siblings are as well.
00:37:59 --> 00:38:03 And so don't be afraid to have those conversations with your siblings or anyone,
00:38:03 --> 00:38:08 but since we're specifically talking about siblings, because chances are they
00:38:08 --> 00:38:09 are too. and that can be missed.
00:38:10 --> 00:38:12 Yeah, that's why I'm so glad we're having this conversation.
00:38:14 --> 00:38:17 So let's shift. Let's shift gears a tiny bit.
00:38:17 --> 00:38:20 And what we actually talked about doing, and I think this is probably the good
00:38:21 --> 00:38:25 point to do that. We talked about making this a two-part episode.
00:38:25 --> 00:38:31 And I think that this is the exact moment where it makes sense to do that.
00:38:32 --> 00:38:38 So we're going to come back next week and we're going to talk about men's mental health.
00:38:38 --> 00:38:46 And shame and silence and advocacy and influencer life and your presence now
00:38:46 --> 00:38:49 in the world, what you're doing is so much more than just mental health advocacy.
00:38:49 --> 00:38:54 You're helping people stay healthy in mind and in body and in spirit.
00:38:54 --> 00:38:57 So are you guys good to come back and to have that conversation?
00:38:58 --> 00:39:05 For sure. Fantastic. All right. So at this point, we'll say what we usually say, which is.
00:39:06 --> 00:39:09 Good care of yourselves. We're all surviving something. Keep surviving.
00:39:09 --> 00:39:14 We'll do it with you if you do it with us. And we'll be back next week with Jake and Joe Sharp.
00:39:15 --> 00:39:17 Our conversation with Jake and Joe doesn't end here.
00:39:18 --> 00:39:21 Join us next week for part two of our conversation when we'll talk about what
00:39:21 --> 00:39:25 happened after their loss and how Jake and Joe found a way to take the worst
00:39:25 --> 00:39:29 pain of their lives and turn it into purpose. We'll see you next week for part two.
00:39:30 --> 00:39:34 Thanks so much for listening and for being part of the Survivors community.
00:39:34 --> 00:39:38 No matter where you are in your story, You're not alone, and you're definitely
00:39:38 --> 00:39:42 not broken. Healing takes time, and it looks different for everyone.
00:39:43 --> 00:39:47 The fact that you're still here and still trying means you're already doing the hard work.
00:39:48 --> 00:39:52 If something in today's conversation resonated with you, please share it with
00:39:52 --> 00:39:53 someone who might need to hear it too.
00:39:54 --> 00:39:58 That's how we keep these conversations going and remind each other that there's always hope.
00:39:59 --> 00:40:02 And if you or someone you know is struggling, please remember,
00:40:02 --> 00:40:03 help is always out there.
00:40:03 --> 00:40:08 You can call or text 988 anytime to reach a trained crisis counselor like me.
00:40:08 --> 00:40:12 And for more mental health resources, tools, treatment options,
00:40:12 --> 00:40:15 and content to support your mental health, visit thehelphub.co.
00:40:16 --> 00:40:19 We're so grateful you're part of the Survivors family, and we'll be back next
00:40:19 --> 00:40:23 week with another honest conversation about life after the hardest things.
00:40:23 --> 00:40:28 Until then, take care of yourself and your people, and keep surviving.