Our Origin Story

1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,880 [MUSIC] 2 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:08,720 The Survivors has brought to you by our friends at CalMerry. 3 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:11,600 This podcast mentions suicide, mental illness, 4 00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:14,400 grief and loss, and maybe triggering for some listeners. 5 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:17,280 So please take care of your mental well-being by pausing or 6 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:20,120 skipping any sections that feel uncomfortable to you. 7 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:23,640 And if you or someone you know is struggling, please call 988 for support. 8 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:27,480 >> Welcome to the Survivors podcast. 9 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:31,920 I'm Gretchen Schoser, a suicide attempt survivor on mental health advocate. 10 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:35,240 And the co-host of the award-winning mental health podcast Sh!t 11 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:36,880 that goes on on our heads. 12 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:41,720 Here to talk openly about what it means to navigate life after mental health crisis. 13 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:45,760 I know how isolating those dark times because I've been there. 14 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:49,560 And I want to break that silence by diving into real conversations about 15 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:52,960 surviving mental illness and suicide attempts. 16 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:59,080 Each week will tackle those tough topics like suicide, grief, mental illness and loss. 17 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:02,800 Topics that aren't often talked about in the mainstream. 18 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:08,440 And we'll share how we've learned to face some tough situations from our own journeys of survivors. 19 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:10,720 This isn't just about the struggle. 20 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:14,880 It's about resilience and connection and finding hope through our shared experiences. 21 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:21,520 >> And I'm Lisa Sugarman, a three time suicide loss survivor, a crisis counselor with the Trevor Project. 22 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:24,480 A storyteller with the National Alliance on Mental Illness, 23 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:27,680 the founder of the Helcub and a mental health advocate. 24 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:32,880 Each week I'll bring my own perspective as a crisis counselor and a multiple suicide loss survivor. 25 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:37,440 As we dive into conversations about what it means to be a survivor of suicide attempt, 26 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:42,440 a survivor of a suicide loss, or just a human who's grieving the loss of someone we love. 27 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:46,840 The survivor is about finding the strength to keep going, whether you're deep in a thick of it, 28 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:49,000 or you're supporting someone else who is. 29 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:52,680 We're two different kinds of survivors with a lifetime's worth of lived experience 30 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:55,840 navigating some of the toughest issues we face as humans. 31 00:01:55,840 --> 00:02:00,120 No topic is off limits, and our goal is to break down the stigma around mental illness, 32 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:02,000 suicide, grief, and loss. 33 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:06,880 Maybe have a few laughs along the way and remind you that you're 1,000% not alone. 34 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:13,400 >> Hey, so our origin story is kind of crazy, but it's so cool. 35 00:02:14,640 --> 00:02:22,480 On our podcast, she then goes on our heads, we were looking for new guests, and I happened to join PodMatch. 36 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:30,040 And Lisa's name came up and I read her story, and I was like, man, we need to have this role in the podcast. 37 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:36,120 Crazy thing is, we were so booked up at the time with the podcast. 38 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:42,320 We talked, we'd scheduled a pre-interview for nozembre, 39 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:46,520 and her episode didn't come out until, February, 2025. 40 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:56,080 But we knew instantly when we had our pre-recording that we were onto something special. 41 00:02:56,080 --> 00:03:01,600 And I am so eternally grateful to the world for bringing us together. 42 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:04,840 It was such an instant friendship. 43 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:06,800 I feel like I've known Lisa my entire life. 44 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:09,240 >> Yes, it's wild. 45 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:11,520 It's absolutely wild, how it went down. 46 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:19,480 You have to remember when we were meeting, sometimes you just jump right into a podcast episode, 47 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:23,800 and you don't have a pre-call, but sometimes you do, and you guys had a pre-call. 48 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:28,760 So you and I were supposed to spend 10 minutes talking, and we spent what, two and a half hours. 49 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:30,080 >> It was two and a half hours. 50 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:30,680 >> Yeah. 51 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:33,960 >> I came out of that, my wife was like, where were you? 52 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:38,360 And I was doing a pre-interview, and I now have my soul sister. 53 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:42,680 It was just such a great conversation. 54 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:49,240 And I remember my friend Julie was on the pre-recording, and she's like something special, 55 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:50,600 she'll come out of this. 56 00:03:50,600 --> 00:04:02,720 And since then, like we, that happened in October, November, timeframe, and then we just started talking. 57 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:05,520 And we wanted to find a way to collaborate. 58 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:11,600 But like at the time, I was still working a part-time job and managing, you know, 59 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:14,480 should that goes on our heads and trying to figure everything out. 60 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:22,120 And then, you know, as fake would have it, she decided to put my job, open my own company, 61 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:24,600 and do what I really wanted to do. 62 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:27,920 And so Lisa and I, like, designed this podcast, 63 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:32,880 knowing that the world needs to hear our message, right? 64 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:37,720 Being a suicide attempt survivor, but not a lot of people talk about that. 65 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:41,080 And I think these conversations need to be heard. 66 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:43,560 And be heard from people that are survivors. 67 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:47,400 You know, Lisa being a three-time suicide survivor, 68 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:55,880 needing a suicide attempt survivor, we bring an interesting perspective to this talk. 69 00:04:55,880 --> 00:05:01,360 And, you know, I have my own lived experiences, and you know, mental health sucks. 70 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:05,320 And like, it can totally drain you. 71 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:10,520 But we hope to like be able to give you some insight. 72 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:16,320 And you know, my end goal really is to normalize these conversations. 73 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:17,040 Yeah, yeah. 74 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:20,480 I mean, I just think about what you and I were like on that. 75 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:24,680 Like I wish we had recorded our first couple of phone calls because it was wild. 76 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:29,640 Just two people who had never met each other to just instantly click and instantly bond. 77 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:33,360 And it wasn't just because of like just a human connection, like, you know, 78 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:34,320 two people vibing. 79 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:41,440 It was two people just completely getting each other's stories and what each other had been through 80 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:44,760 and feeling that like tear bones. 81 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:47,440 Like I think you and I after like the second time we talked, we're like, 82 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:48,200 okay, I love you. 83 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:48,720 Bye. 84 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:51,440 I feel like we still say that. 85 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:55,280 And it was crazy because we're bonding around suicide, which, 86 00:05:55,280 --> 00:05:59,760 and I love the fact that we're sitting here giggling, but our podcast is called the survivors. 87 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:05,760 And it's about suicide, loss and grief and all these crazy, heavy, heavy things. 88 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:10,640 And yet you and I are out here trying to change that. 89 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:15,440 And the way that we change that is by just just having the conversations, 90 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:18,520 just saying the words, just, you know, talking to talk. 91 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:24,120 And it's like you and I did that so freely and so easily that it was just such a no brainer 92 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:26,920 that our natural collaboration would be a podcast. 93 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:32,440 And then of course you being part of the wildly, wildly successful podcast 94 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:35,000 that goes on in our heads, which is already in the mental health space, 95 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:39,880 winning all sorts of crazy awards and, you know, hitting million downloads and all these crazy things. 96 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:41,600 You're like, oh, hey, we should do a podcast. 97 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:43,080 And I'm like, have you lost your mind? 98 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:44,400 Want to do another podcast? 99 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:48,720 Because, you know, you're already doing this, this incredible podcast. 100 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:50,880 And you were like, no, no, no, it's good. 101 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:51,440 It's going to be good. 102 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:53,680 This is exactly the kind of stuff I want to do. 103 00:06:53,680 --> 00:07:00,400 And I had been waiting for something to like a lightning bolt because Dave, my husband, 104 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:03,800 who, you know, in the weeks and months ahead, you'll hear lots about Dave. 105 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:11,600 And my kids, Dave has been up my heads for such a long time to try to get me to start a podcast. 106 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:13,760 And I knew what I didn't want to do. 107 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:19,120 I knew I didn't necessarily want to have like the host guest format all the time. 108 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:21,680 I mean, I know you and I are going to be bringing people on here and there. 109 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:25,080 But more than anything, we're going to be having these conversations. 110 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:31,600 And so I just remember thinking to myself and saying to him, like, no, no, no, like I, I 111 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:33,800 want to have the conversations I want to have. 112 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:38,400 I want to be able to say what's on my mind and, you know, kind of bounce off someone who 113 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:40,240 gets it, but I don't know who that would be. 114 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:43,440 And, you know, you know, you got to have this thing in your head that's floating around 115 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:44,880 and bouncing around. 116 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:49,360 And then when you and I met and we talked that first and second time, I was like, oh, 117 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:50,360 my God. 118 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:51,360 This is, this is it. 119 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:52,360 This is the place. 120 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:53,360 This is the person. 121 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:54,360 This is the time. 122 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:55,360 And this is the thing. 123 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:57,040 And I was just so skinny. 124 00:07:57,040 --> 00:08:00,280 I remember going to my wife and she's like, how are you crazy? 125 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:03,040 You like already have all these other things on your plate. 126 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:05,400 But for me, it's not work. 127 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:08,360 It's something I'm super passionate about. 128 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:14,240 You know, and I want people to see me as a story of hope because, you know, on Christmas 129 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:16,560 day, 2022, I try to take my life. 130 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:18,280 You know, thank God for 988. 131 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:19,960 I'm here today. 132 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:25,720 And I'm not sad that I had, I went through all that because I wouldn't be where I am today 133 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:31,160 doing the things that I love changing the world one conversation at a time. 134 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:37,840 And when I talked with Lisa, it's just like, it's this incredible conversation, right? 135 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:39,400 It's like we're soul sisters. 136 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:44,040 You know, she lives maybe four and a half hours from me. 137 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:47,920 Probably won't go and see her, you know, until we'll snow melts because, you know what, 138 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:49,520 I don't feel like driving. 139 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:51,960 I just don't. 140 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:53,840 But you know, you need anybody else. 141 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:55,640 Yeah, because it's gross. 142 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:56,640 Right. 143 00:08:56,640 --> 00:09:01,200 But you know, we do, we will inject some laughter into this because, you know, hindsight 144 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:02,200 is 2020. 145 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:06,960 And you can go back and laugh at some of the shit that happened. 146 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:08,280 But it makes it real. 147 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:13,120 And we're super vulnerable, like, and we're not hard on my sleeve. 148 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:15,320 And I'm just trying to make the world a better place. 149 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:22,520 Now more than ever, these conversations need to be had, need to be heard and action needs 150 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:23,880 to be taken. 151 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:29,080 And truly, if you're feeling those suicidal thoughts where you just don't know where else 152 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:31,360 to turn, please call 988. 153 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:32,360 They're there. 154 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:33,680 They're free. 155 00:09:33,680 --> 00:09:38,360 There's the most compassionate people I've ever spoken to in my entire life. 156 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:43,600 And it's available here in the States and in Canada. 157 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:45,120 So, like, utilize that. 158 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:51,680 And it's funny, Lisa, that we're having this conversation because I did, I got an Instagram 159 00:09:51,680 --> 00:09:59,280 voicemail message the other day from a guest that was on our pop, my, my podcast. 160 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:01,440 And it was from a lady in Canada. 161 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:06,080 And she said that her friend's daughter ended up calling 988. 162 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:09,960 And they didn't realize that that number was available until they started listening to 163 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:10,960 our podcast. 164 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:12,600 It's amazing. 165 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:13,600 And so, that's it. 166 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:14,600 That's it right there. 167 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:15,600 You've done it. 168 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:16,600 You've done the thing. 169 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:18,160 We've done the thing, right? 170 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:25,800 And she's the woman's daughter was just so thankful that she had somebody to talk to. 171 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:29,520 And like, we are just retuned normal every day people, right? 172 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:35,280 You and I, you know, I've got 45 years in the corporate world. 173 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:40,920 And you know, being 61, I just, I'd quit my job and start something new. 174 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:41,920 Because we have. 175 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:44,440 Like, look at that, right? 176 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:48,840 But it, you know, I still went through that really hard stuff. 177 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:54,360 And what worked for me may not work for everybody else, but being able to talk through it and 178 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:56,560 be open about it. 179 00:10:56,560 --> 00:11:04,400 And just embracing who we are in these conversations is so utterly important. 180 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:05,400 Yeah. 181 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:07,480 We have to be able to do that. 182 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:09,360 And, and that's the whole point. 183 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:12,560 That's the point of what you and I want to do. 184 00:11:12,560 --> 00:11:14,680 You have so much perspective as an attempt survivor. 185 00:11:14,680 --> 00:11:20,680 I have my own perspective as, you know, a multiple suicide loss survivor starting when I was 186 00:11:20,680 --> 00:11:27,200 nine years old all the way through until, you know, I lost a close close friend only not 187 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:28,200 even four years ago. 188 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:31,600 So plus my dad in the middle of all that. 189 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:38,440 And, you know, we each bring so many unique perspectives to this conversation. 190 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:43,440 Like, you know, I don't know if there's ever been anything like this that has two different 191 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:48,160 kinds of survivors that can kind of capture the essence of just what it means to survive 192 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:49,160 life. 193 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:52,640 Because I mean, even though so much of what you and I are going to talk about in all the 194 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:56,200 episodes ahead has to do with suicide. 195 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:59,040 It's, it's not just a conversation about suicide. 196 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:00,360 That's a big part of it. 197 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:01,360 But it's about loss. 198 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:02,960 It's about grief. 199 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:04,640 It's about surviving mental illness. 200 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:08,600 It's about surviving just like life in general. 201 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:09,920 You know, because I don't care who you are. 202 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:11,160 I don't care where you come from. 203 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:15,120 I don't care, you know, how much is in your bank account or what kind of car you drive. 204 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:16,520 Like none of that matters. 205 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:21,440 Like we're talking about stuff that equalizes every single one of us. 206 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:25,480 Like, you know, depression doesn't know where you live. 207 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:26,760 It's just going to hit. 208 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:31,960 You know, wow, anxiety doesn't care what kind of house you live in. 209 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:32,960 It's going to hit. 210 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:38,440 So, you know, it's navigating all of those things and just having these conversations that 211 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:39,880 have just been in the shadows. 212 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:46,000 Like, I'm just so sick and tired of the word suicide being such a taboo word. 213 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:47,800 And that's that's part of the problem. 214 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:49,880 Like that right there is part of the problem. 215 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:53,240 Like we can't even say the word without people, you know, freaking out about it. 216 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:55,440 And that's what you and I are trying to change. 217 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:56,440 Yeah. 218 00:12:56,440 --> 00:13:00,080 And it's such such an important conversation, right? 219 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:06,680 I have now seen more in like the LinkedIn space, right? 220 00:13:06,680 --> 00:13:09,800 That people are talking more about suicide. 221 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:12,000 Like don't be afraid to use that word. 222 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:13,000 It happens, right? 223 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:20,960 I mean, like look at Robert Williams, Anthony Burden, which, you know, all these amazing 224 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:23,360 humans that took their lives. 225 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:29,440 And I could be because they know that somebody else is in their corner or their life, which 226 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:33,760 is so freaking crappy that they didn't know where to turn. 227 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:36,720 I mean, I know what it feels to feel, feel that way. 228 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:44,440 Like, you know, at my age, you know, I'm 61, but when I, when I did my suicide attempt, I was 229 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:45,840 58. 230 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:49,040 In my generation, we were taught not to talk about mental, you know, anything that had 231 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:50,040 to do with mental health. 232 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:55,400 And there was not a whole lot of podcasts out there that taught openly and honest that we 233 00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:56,400 do want shit. 234 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:57,520 It goes on our heads. 235 00:13:57,520 --> 00:13:58,520 And on this podcast. 236 00:13:58,520 --> 00:13:59,360 Yeah. 237 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:05,320 I think that our conversations and just who we are, and, you know, we're easy. 238 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:07,880 And like, I don't mind talking about this. 239 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:10,400 And I'm not shameful that, you know, it happened. 240 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:15,920 Like I said, I'm actually happy that it happened because I'm much happier now that I've been 241 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:18,560 in 20, 25 years. 242 00:14:18,560 --> 00:14:21,160 And we're trying to get light on it. 243 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:24,880 And shining that light to probably save somebody else's life. 244 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:27,080 Well, that's the goal, right? 245 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:30,080 That's the goal. 246 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:36,080 It's to kind of smash the stigma and to push this all into the mainstream where it belongs. 247 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:43,160 You know, it's like I said, the stigma is created because we're so hush hush about these topics. 248 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:45,800 It's when we start just talking about them openly. 249 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:52,760 And honestly, that people aren't going to be so impacted by, you know, the shame that's 250 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:53,760 attached to it. 251 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:57,440 And we'll get rid of that shame because we'll just be having everyday conversations. 252 00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:03,240 And the other thing that I love is that, you know, you and I have a lot of experience as 253 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:07,280 mental health advocates, both of us, you know, doing our own unique work. 254 00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:11,640 I have, you know, experience on the crisis lifelines. 255 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:14,760 That's what I do every day. 256 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:18,960 But the other thing that we don't have, which I love, is that we don't have anything after 257 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:19,960 our names. 258 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:20,960 We don't accept that. 259 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:21,960 I have she, her. 260 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:25,320 I have dashed jackass. 261 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:26,320 Yes. 262 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:27,320 Right now you do. 263 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:28,320 Right. 264 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:36,320 But the point is like we don't have any clinical experience. 265 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:39,000 We don't have any clinical background. 266 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:40,320 You and I are not therapists. 267 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:45,000 We're not counselors and an Emma crisis counselor, but I'm not a licensed clinician. 268 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:46,000 I neither are you. 269 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:51,120 So we're coming at this from a super humanistic point of view. 270 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:55,720 We're like two people who have lived through it all. 271 00:15:55,720 --> 00:16:01,480 I mean, like I said, I'm 56 years old and I had my first experience with loss, which happened 272 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:03,800 to be a suicide loss when I was nine years old. 273 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:08,280 So I've been accompanied by recent loss, my literally my entire life. 274 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:10,480 And I know you have two. 275 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:17,480 And you've also, you know, dealt with your share of depression and your, your attempt, 276 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:22,520 which, you know, thankfully for all of us was something that, you know, didn't come to 277 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:24,240 fruition. 278 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:29,400 But I think that's what's going to separate this podcast from other podcasts. 279 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:34,600 It's just like two people you can relate to and you might, people might just pick up little 280 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:41,640 bits and pieces of, you know, of content or of tips or of our stories that relate back 281 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:42,640 to them. 282 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:43,640 That's why you need it. 283 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:48,240 If you find one little nugget that we say that resonates with you, then that's, you know, 284 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:50,720 that's the endgame. 285 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:53,600 Take a step to your mental wellbeing with CalMari. 286 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:57,400 Trust it online therapy platform that supports you through life's challenges. 287 00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:01,080 Connect with licensed therapists and reap the benefits of traditional therapy enhanced 288 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:03,080 with digital tools whenever you need it. 289 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:07,440 Visit calmery.com to get started. 290 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:08,440 It's just, it is. 291 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:14,440 And, you know, like, like Lisa said, we're not experts, but I'm an expert in life, man. 292 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:22,960 You know, I've been through some shit and I wear my heart on my sleeves and I, I live 293 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:25,680 life the way that I want to live it. 294 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:27,240 I don't live it for anybody else. 295 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:33,640 Like I, I think our lived experiences mean just as much. 296 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:40,640 There's not more than having a, you know, those additional initials at the end of my name, 297 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:41,640 right? 298 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:46,840 You know, I survive life and I'm here and I'm 61 years old. 299 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:53,040 I'm an MB 62 and I just think that, you know, in this day and age, people need this. 300 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:56,720 They need these real conversations and feel like you're part of the family. 301 00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:58,920 And yeah, we've been there. 302 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:02,320 And, you know, depression sucks. 303 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:05,320 That's a certain kind of, it's sucked. 304 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:13,120 But, you know, I put a lot of work into this to myself to see what would be at the other 305 00:18:13,120 --> 00:18:14,120 end. 306 00:18:14,120 --> 00:18:19,720 And, in one of the next episodes, we're going to, like, kind of dive into my own story and 307 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:24,200 Lisa will dive into your own story and, you know, just what she's gone through. 308 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:30,720 And, like Lisa said, I hope you get just, like, a little nugget that will help you and 309 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:35,160 it can make you, you know, help you through the next minute, the next day, the next 310 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:36,960 little month. 311 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:39,800 And just know that you're not alone, right? 312 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:43,000 I'm so thankful when I called my name eight. 313 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:51,200 And I had only remembered that because there was a, and read an article, like mid November 314 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:52,200 2022. 315 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:55,800 I like this number and how people were going to help. 316 00:18:55,800 --> 00:19:05,600 And, you know, sink through further into depression and I, is that little tidbit help. 317 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:12,280 But here's the great thing about a podcast is our reach is so, so much has such a far 318 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:17,480 reach than being able to go into a doctor or anything else. 319 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:23,280 I mean, we have the potential to listen to around the world and we're free. 320 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:24,280 Right. 321 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:25,280 Right. 322 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:29,160 And like, like we said, we are not clinical. 323 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:36,280 We don't have degrees by any means, but we've lived our lives and we've been to her this school 324 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:39,960 of life, baby, school of life, you know. 325 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:44,200 And one of the other things that I think that I'm most excited about, like, I know how excited 326 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:47,160 you and I have been for like the last couple of months to get to today, which is when we're 327 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:48,160 recording. 328 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:53,880 Like, there, for anyone listening or watching, the buildup has been, it's, it's like that 329 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:58,800 feeling I would imagine a kid who knows they're getting a pony for their birth. 330 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:00,960 Like, the greatest thing that could ever happen. 331 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:03,000 Like, that's what this is felt like. 332 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:07,560 Like the anticipation when I got up this morning was just, was just wild. 333 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:13,200 And as much as I'm like, so excited to have this conversation with you and just to like, 334 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:17,160 like, it's a weird thing to say, like shoot the shit about suicide and about mental illness. 335 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:19,600 But like, that is what we're doing, right? 336 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:24,000 The other thing I'm so excited about is that at the exact same time that we're doing this 337 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:27,160 and we're having these conversations and we're shining all these lights on all these things 338 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:29,960 that have been in the dark for so long, like we're building a community. 339 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:35,000 Like, that's the thing I love building community so much. 340 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:41,200 And like, all of a sudden I just got this massive wave of emotion and it's like stuck in 341 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:42,320 my throat right now. 342 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:51,920 So I just think about what kind of power we all have together as people start to listen, 343 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:58,000 as people share a podcast, as people hopefully recycle it and play these conversations over 344 00:20:58,000 --> 00:20:59,560 there in their heads again. 345 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:05,600 I just am so excited to build a community where people can come and feel safe and feel 346 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:12,840 heard and feel seen and feel supported and feel comfortable just talking about whatever 347 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:15,840 they feel like they need to talk about that helps them survive. 348 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:21,680 Yeah, because, you know, sharing our stories opens somebody else's jail, right? 349 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:22,680 Yeah, yeah. 350 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:27,880 Because now they don't feel so alone and for, you know, shit that goes on our heads, that's 351 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:29,600 truly what we do, right? 352 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:34,960 Our mission on that podcast is to normalize how we talk about mental health. 353 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:40,320 And one thing I have to laugh with Lisa and it's not a dig, but she is the most organized 354 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:43,480 person I've ever met in my entire life. 355 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:49,080 Like I roll out of bed until like 9 o'clock this morning and when I read my emails, there 356 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:51,080 were like five emails from her. 357 00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:52,080 There were three. 358 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:53,080 That's not exaggerate. 359 00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:56,560 There were three, three, five, whatever. 360 00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:59,680 More emails than I had sent out since I've been out. 361 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:04,880 And it's still organic, right? 362 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:11,440 All these amazing ideas in our head and all these great episodes are going to come up. 363 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:14,960 And I'm really thankful. 364 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:20,920 And you know, my co-host on, uh, that goes on our heads, three skittles. 365 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:23,160 She was so excited for us to do this. 366 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:25,160 Really, for some reason. 367 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:29,600 The shit goes on our heads is a suicide focused podcast. 368 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:37,400 It's a mental health focus podcast and being able to share this part of my journey on 369 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:44,520 that, on that podcast, the specific to suicide and mental health and making it from day one 370 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:50,560 to day two to day 10 is something that I've wanted to do for a really long time. 371 00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:54,960 And I love the fact that the universe brought us together. 372 00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:56,800 You know who else brought us together? 373 00:22:56,800 --> 00:23:01,480 And this is a big, big shout out to our friends at PodMatch. 374 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:08,040 If anyone who does not know what that platform is, it is an absolutely spectacular platform 375 00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:12,520 designed for podcast hosts and for guests. 376 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:15,680 And it's kind of like, it's kind of like the Tinder of podcasts. 377 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:16,680 Like, right? 378 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:21,600 Like, like, you can, you set up your profile. 379 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:27,080 And then depending on what your subject matter is for your podcast, if you're looking for 380 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:32,560 guests, you can find people who have criteria that matches your podcast. 381 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:35,720 And so that's how Gretchen found me. 382 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:37,960 And it's pretty sounds so weird to call you Gretchen. 383 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:38,960 I never call you Gretchen. 384 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:39,960 I'm calling you G. 385 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:40,960 That's what I call you. 386 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:41,960 So I'm not. 387 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:42,960 Why would I not do that here? 388 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:46,840 So G found me and that's how we became together. 389 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:50,600 But we never, ever would have found each other. 390 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:55,240 I'm sure we never would have known each other existed if it were not for PodMatch. 391 00:23:55,240 --> 00:24:00,120 So thank you to all of our beautiful friends over there for putting our worlds. 392 00:24:00,120 --> 00:24:04,720 And I love that our read-overs have meshed, right? 393 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:10,640 Because you being an author, me trying to finish my book, which was almost done, right? 394 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:13,400 Until I decided to quit my job at OpenMail Company. 395 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:15,720 So I'm rewriting the whole West chapter of my book. 396 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:16,720 That's right. 397 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:17,880 But it gets to include this. 398 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:23,760 It gets to include my new chapter one. 399 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:27,760 But I'm so thankful to be alive. 400 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:31,000 I keep looking tired of me saying that. 401 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,880 But I'm so thankful to be here. 402 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:42,880 I said, my next lemma of hope, I say that 988, and I say my wife, right? 403 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:47,840 My biggest problem was I didn't know, I didn't understand what was going on with me. 404 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:54,160 And so my hope is that with this podcast, we can help people find their voice and their 405 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:58,920 footing, a lot sooner than I was able to find my. 406 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:01,120 But you know what, you found it, right? 407 00:25:01,120 --> 00:25:02,120 You found it. 408 00:25:02,120 --> 00:25:03,120 And that's the point. 409 00:25:03,120 --> 00:25:04,400 That's what matters. 410 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:10,640 And that's also a statement of how the process is so different for everybody. 411 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:15,080 Like some people, some people figured out sooner than later. 412 00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:20,320 And it doesn't matter when you figure it out as long as you figure it out as long as you 413 00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:24,000 recognize that you're not like living through all this in an vacuum. 414 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:29,040 And I think that I think one of the things that's going to be most valuable about this podcast 415 00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:35,240 is that community side of it because so many people, like we're alone in our own head 416 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:37,920 with our own thought loops that are endless. 417 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:44,640 And I think there's some crazy statistic out there that, you know, 95% of the thoughts 418 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:51,200 that we have in our little manufactured thought loops in our head, those thoughts are recycled 419 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:53,840 a day after day after day after day. 420 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:59,600 So we're kind of living with the same narratives in our head, telling ourselves the same maybe 421 00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:06,520 negative self-talk or, you know, depressed, depressed narratives and we can't get out of 422 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:07,520 it. 423 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:12,560 But this podcast, like we are going to help you find your way out of it. 424 00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:15,800 We're going to help remind you if you have to smack you in the head every week, we're 425 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:19,040 going to remind you you're not alone. 426 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:20,040 We are out there. 427 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:25,240 Even if you have no one, no one that you can like turn to, put your arms around, call during 428 00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:26,240 the day. 429 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:27,720 There are places you can go. 430 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:29,320 There are people who will listen. 431 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:31,480 There are support systems that can guide you. 432 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:37,080 So I wish every episode was like three days long because I feel like you and I could talk 433 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:38,720 for three days right now. 434 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:39,720 We took. 435 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:44,480 And, you know, just always remember that you are enough. 436 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:48,040 And as to we just point, you're not alone. 437 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:54,200 And as our episodes go on, you know, you don't get to hear our own stories, right? 438 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,920 Like the shit that we both went through. 439 00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:04,400 How I turn that around for me, how I turn my pull into purpose. 440 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:06,120 And we both did. 441 00:27:06,120 --> 00:27:11,560 And I'm so excited for this podcast. 442 00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:18,080 Like I said, I'm thankful that the world, that our universe is collided. 443 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:26,000 And that we are going to create this amazing podcast full of an amazing community, right? 444 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:28,040 And just keep talking about it. 445 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:30,440 Like don't shy away from that subject. 446 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:35,040 Don't shy away from saying the word suicide because it happens. 447 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:36,480 But it'll happen. 448 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:42,160 I hell of a lot less when people are actually talking about it freely and openly because then 449 00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:46,800 the people who are too afraid to say how they really feel or too afraid to ask for help 450 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:51,480 will realize that that it is okay to talk about these things. 451 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:53,400 It is okay to not be okay. 452 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,240 Like I know that is like the most overused cliche in the world right now. 453 00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:58,440 But like it's the best mantra. 454 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:02,200 It's literally the mantra we should all be living by. 455 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:08,960 And just because you and I have kind of worked our way through like navigated to what we would 456 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:13,560 I guess call the other side of what we dealt with initially when it was so bad. 457 00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:15,200 Like we're still surviving. 458 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:16,200 Like we're still working. 459 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:20,000 We still, it does not mean that you and I don't have shitty days. 460 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,200 And you know, I mean it happens. 461 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:29,800 But, but if you take nothing away from this kind of a podcast, take this. 462 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:31,760 It's not always easy. 463 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:34,360 It doesn't always happen right away. 464 00:28:34,360 --> 00:28:36,400 But hope is out there. 465 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:44,120 And all you have to do is is is keep moving forward and keep reaching out until you get to 466 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:47,220 that other side because we the fact that matter is like we got you got to walk through the 467 00:28:47,220 --> 00:28:48,600 shit to get the other side. 468 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:51,240 Like that's that's the whole point. 469 00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:53,600 One billion percent. 470 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,920 Like there's there's no easy button. 471 00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:58,880 And like there's no easy button in life right? 472 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:06,960 Like, even if I had a billion dollars, I would still have to deal with my inner demons to 473 00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:09,040 you know, make it to make it to here. 474 00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:17,680 And I'm just so grateful for Lisa, aka sugar, like I don't know if I'm going to call her 475 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:19,360 figure it out as we go. 476 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:21,320 I think you just figured it out. 477 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:22,880 I think you just figured it out. 478 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:24,600 I think I just figured it out. 479 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:30,560 But I'm so excited for you guys to you know, jump in next week when we you know, get into 480 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:32,480 our own stories. 481 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:38,840 And super thankful for the calmly for sponsoring our episodes. 482 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:48,760 Yeah, we are both doing some beautiful things with calmly and are excited beyond belief 483 00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:54,080 that they're supporting us here in this mission to change this conversation. 484 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:58,160 We have a long and beautiful way to go. 485 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:03,320 And this is only day one, step one. 486 00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:06,160 We haven't even gotten started yet. 487 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:07,760 So hold on to your hats. 488 00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:09,520 Here we go. 489 00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:12,000 Here we go. 490 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:15,000 See you guys next week. 491 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:16,800 Thanks for joining us on the survivors. 492 00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:20,360 Remember, no matter how tough things feel, you are enough. 493 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:22,320 And the world needs you just the way you are. 494 00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:24,200 You're not alone in this dream. 495 00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:27,280 There's a community here and every step forward counts. 496 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:29,440 We're so grateful you took the time to lose it. 497 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:31,880 And we hope they'll take one day at a time. 498 00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:35,120 Just know there's always more life ahead. 499 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:36,720 Thanks for being here friends. 500 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:40,600 Just remember, help is out there in so many different places. 501 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:45,160 So if you or someone you know is struggling, please call 988 and a trained crisis counselor 502 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:47,360 like me will be there to help. 503 00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:51,880 You can also find an inclusive and comprehensive directory of mental health resources, tools 504 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:54,960 and content at thehelphub.co. 505 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:58,640 Just remember that help is always just a call or a click away. 506 00:30:58,640 --> 00:30:59,720 We'll catch you next week. 507 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:01,320 In the meantime, keep surviving.