*WARNING: This podcast mentions suicide, sexual abuse & trauma and may be triggering.
Episode Summary
In this heartfelt episode, Lisa and Natasha explore the realities of mental health, the stigma around seeking help, and practical ways to support those in crisis.
They share personal stories, debunk myths about crisis hotlines, and emphasize the importance of honest conversations and action during Mental Health Awareness Month.
Episode Sponsored by The HelpHUB™
Struggling with your mental health? Feeling lost, overwhelmed, or just alone? Well, you're not. Welcome to The HelpHUB™—your online destination for mental health resources, treatment options, content, and tools to help meet you exactly where you are in the moment. Visit TheHelpHUB.co to get started.
Topics
- The disconnect between awareness and action in mental health
- Personal stories of mental health struggles and recovery
- How crisis hotlines work and debunking myths
- The importance of honest conversations and support
- Practical steps to help someone in crisis
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Mental Health Awareness 02:53 The Loneliness Epidemic 07:18 Breaking the Silence on Mental Health 10:44 Navigating Crisis Conversations 16:15 The Importance of Seeking Help 20:29 Understanding Crisis Hotlines 25:11 Bridging the Gap in Mental Health Awareness
Mental Health Resources
- If you or someone you know is struggling, please call 988 for help.
- The Survivors Podcast Website – https://thesurvivors.net/
- The HelpHUB™ – Mental health resources, tools, and support networks – https://www.thehelphub.co/
- National Domestic Violence Hotline – Call 1-800-799-SAFE (7223)
Follow & Connect With Us
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See you next week! In the meantime, keep surviving.
00:00:00 --> 00:00:04 Hey, friends, before we dive into this week's episode, just a heads up.
00:00:05 --> 00:00:09 Our podcast talks about suicide, sexual abuse, and other trauma,
00:00:09 --> 00:00:13 and some of what you hear may be triggering. So please listen with care.
00:00:13 --> 00:00:18 This is The Survivors, real stories, raw conversations, and the truth about
00:00:18 --> 00:00:21 what it means to keep going after the hardest things.
00:00:21 --> 00:00:24 We're so glad you're here. Let's keep surviving together.
00:00:27 --> 00:00:31 Hey, so this is going to be a powerful episode, I feel like.
00:00:31 --> 00:00:36 May is Mental Health Awareness Month, and for you that may be listening for
00:00:36 --> 00:00:39 the first time, this is a topic that I take very seriously.
00:00:40 --> 00:00:45 Having five brothers that have lost their battle to mental health,
00:00:46 --> 00:00:48 and I have struggled with it my entire life.
00:00:49 --> 00:00:52 So I want to take the time to have a deep,
00:00:53 --> 00:00:59 candid conversation with Lisa, Who I feel has a tremendous amount of experience
00:00:59 --> 00:01:04 in this realm as a volunteer for the Trevor Project And I just want to have
00:01:04 --> 00:01:06 a conversation about You know,
00:01:06 --> 00:01:11 we have so much awareness around this topic And yet more and more people feel
00:01:11 --> 00:01:17 alone And they don't feel like there's a gap happening And so I feel like this
00:01:17 --> 00:01:24 is a powerful conversation that we can have To maybe bridge that gap and open it up What do you say?
00:01:25 --> 00:01:32 I say I'm all in. I say you could ask me to talk about turtles and I'd say I'm all in.
00:01:33 --> 00:01:38 So let's do it. And you know what? You and I were talking a lot offline about
00:01:38 --> 00:01:39 that gap that you talked about.
00:01:39 --> 00:01:44 It's like, I don't want to say that people are doing things in a performative way necessarily.
00:01:44 --> 00:01:48 People are having more conversations. People are posting.
00:01:48 --> 00:01:54 People are definitely talking more and in more spaces about mental health.
00:01:54 --> 00:01:58 Which I think we can all agree is always going to be a good situation.
00:01:58 --> 00:02:00 That matters. It really does.
00:02:01 --> 00:02:06 But I keep coming back, and I think you do too, to the same question is like,
00:02:07 --> 00:02:12 If awareness is higher than it's ever been, and let's agree,
00:02:12 --> 00:02:17 can we agree, probably, that kind of globally, mental health is more mainstream
00:02:17 --> 00:02:20 now than it ever has been. Absolutely.
00:02:21 --> 00:02:27 Right, which is good. So why are so many people still struggling in silence is what I want to know.
00:02:28 --> 00:02:34 Why are so many people feeling like we're in a loneliness epidemic and we're isolated?
00:02:35 --> 00:02:38 I just feel like there's some
00:02:38 --> 00:02:41 kind of a disconnect there and and
00:02:41 --> 00:02:44 I I don't know I just I want to talk about it here so
00:02:44 --> 00:02:47 that we can maybe flesh it out together because
00:02:47 --> 00:02:50 I feel like we're making a lot of progress but I feel like something's still missing
00:02:50 --> 00:02:53 do you feel that way I do absolutely and
00:02:53 --> 00:02:56 I I am just coming out of a depressive episode
00:02:56 --> 00:03:02 myself you know a couple of months ago January February of this year I was low
00:03:02 --> 00:03:07 and nobody had a clue I didn't have a clue you didn't have exactly you didn't
00:03:07 --> 00:03:14 know that was a hell of an episode by the way if you have not listened to that episode.
00:03:15 --> 00:03:23 Go back it's it's earlier in the season and Natasha was very very honest and
00:03:23 --> 00:03:29 said I am not okay, I am having suicidal thoughts again.
00:03:29 --> 00:03:33 And I think it's important for people who might not know your history.
00:03:33 --> 00:03:35 You mentioned your brothers, but,
00:03:35 --> 00:03:39 you've also attempted three times to take your own life.
00:03:39 --> 00:03:44 So you have a history of suicidal ideation and attempts. Yeah, yeah.
00:03:45 --> 00:03:50 And it's not just a little, like, there's no medical reason that I should still
00:03:50 --> 00:03:52 be alive today on all three accounts.
00:03:52 --> 00:03:57 And so it's, you know, mental health awareness is something that I am deeply
00:03:57 --> 00:04:00 passionate about on so many fronts.
00:04:00 --> 00:04:03 And so being, struggling with
00:04:03 --> 00:04:06 it myself and knowing the importance of being
00:04:06 --> 00:04:09 able to talk to somebody I couldn't even tell my own
00:04:09 --> 00:04:13 husband that I was struggling
00:04:13 --> 00:04:17 hard until I
00:04:17 --> 00:04:23 finally told you live while we're recording a podcast and I can't tell you what
00:04:23 --> 00:04:31 a relief that was for me to say it openly in such a Open space for everybody
00:04:31 --> 00:04:35 in the world to hear anybody could listen to this at any time I felt a tremendous
00:04:35 --> 00:04:36 amount of relief afterwards.
00:04:37 --> 00:04:39 Now what held me back?
00:04:40 --> 00:04:44 What I, you know, I've thought about it. What held me back from saying,
00:04:44 --> 00:04:47 telling my husband or telling you offline or whatever.
00:04:49 --> 00:04:55 It's, I didn't want to feel weak. I didn't want to draw attention to myself.
00:04:56 --> 00:05:02 I think there's the fear of getting locked up in a quote unquote a nuthouse.
00:05:02 --> 00:05:05 I still to this day am terrified of that.
00:05:05 --> 00:05:09 I have never been on a 72 hour hold, but I am terrified of it.
00:05:09 --> 00:05:12 Okay, so you just answered my question because I was literally just about to
00:05:12 --> 00:05:16 ask you, because that's nothing that you and I had ever talked about before,
00:05:16 --> 00:05:21 certainly not on the pod, but I don't think I knew whether or not you had ever
00:05:21 --> 00:05:24 been committed before on hold.
00:05:25 --> 00:05:30 I talked my way out of it every time. And a lot of people can do that.
00:05:30 --> 00:05:33 I know, I mean, I could rattle off right now half a dozen people in my own life
00:05:33 --> 00:05:36 who I know have actually done that.
00:05:36 --> 00:05:41 And it comes from that place of, I don't want people to know,
00:05:41 --> 00:05:44 number one, that I'm weak, like you said, they're afraid of the fallout.
00:05:44 --> 00:05:47 I mean, you mentioned that I'm on the crisis lifelines.
00:05:47 --> 00:05:51 I am a Trevor Project lifeline counselor.
00:05:51 --> 00:05:55 And I can't tell you how often.
00:05:56 --> 00:06:01 Well, I can tell you how often. Every conversation that I have with anyone who
00:06:01 --> 00:06:05 calls the lifeline for any reason, it does not have to be, are you suicidal?
00:06:06 --> 00:06:09 Is it an in-progress attempt? Are you having ideation? It doesn't have to be.
00:06:09 --> 00:06:13 That could be any kind of a crisis. someone calls, we give them a risk assessment
00:06:13 --> 00:06:17 within the first five minutes. And the first two questions that I ask every
00:06:17 --> 00:06:20 single person who calls that lifeline, any of us have to ask is,
00:06:21 --> 00:06:23 are you thinking about killing yourself? Number one.
00:06:24 --> 00:06:26 Number two, have you done anything to try and harm yourself today?
00:06:27 --> 00:06:34 And inevitably, I would say five out of every 10 people that I speak to,
00:06:34 --> 00:06:35 when I ask that question,
00:06:36 --> 00:06:40 there is a serious hesitation to tell me the truth because they think,
00:06:40 --> 00:06:43 I'm a crisis line operator.
00:06:43 --> 00:06:50 I have the capacity to do an intervention on them and to have police banging
00:06:50 --> 00:06:54 down their door in three minutes if I make a phone call.
00:06:54 --> 00:07:02 And so people are terrified of being ripped out of their homes and put on lockdown.
00:07:03 --> 00:07:07 And so, I mean, I get it. And it just, it sucks because I think so many people
00:07:07 --> 00:07:11 are so afraid of that outcome that you're right, they're paralyzed.
00:07:11 --> 00:07:16 The closest I ever came was in 2022.
00:07:16 --> 00:07:22 And I was sitting in a doctor's office. I had been having a number of health problems.
00:07:23 --> 00:07:25 And we were just...
00:07:27 --> 00:07:32 I just was not good. And I had told George a couple of weeks or maybe even a
00:07:32 --> 00:07:34 month prior, I need you to get the guns out of the house.
00:07:35 --> 00:07:39 I made that clear. And so when I went to the doctor and they did a risk assessment
00:07:39 --> 00:07:47 on me and they were going to put me on hold and I have no idea how I talked them out of it.
00:07:47 --> 00:07:50 I still to this day that I talked them out of it.
00:07:51 --> 00:07:58 I should have absolutely been put on a hold, but I don't, I must have some powerful,
00:07:58 --> 00:08:03 I don't know, but I- Persuasive abilities? Yes.
00:08:03 --> 00:08:07 And, and I was like, no, I'm okay. I'm okay.
00:08:07 --> 00:08:10 You know, but it was probably a good 20 minutes where I was terrified that I
00:08:10 --> 00:08:12 was going to get locked up. They're like, we're going to put you in an ambulance.
00:08:13 --> 00:08:16 I think it was, I had something about said something. I don't have a medical
00:08:16 --> 00:08:21 insurance. You can't do this. I don't have medical insurance. I can't afford this.
00:08:21 --> 00:08:24 If you do this you know what I mean I I don't
00:08:24 --> 00:08:27 remember a whole lot to be honest but I just I just
00:08:27 --> 00:08:32 know that I somehow talked them out of it and they allowed me to drive home
00:08:32 --> 00:08:40 as long as I told my husband where I was at mentally and I did yeah yeah you
00:08:40 --> 00:08:45 know I I feel like we're definitely making progress all around.
00:08:45 --> 00:08:52 But I mean, we've definitely normalized saying things like mental health and
00:08:52 --> 00:08:53 mental illness and suicide.
00:08:54 --> 00:09:00 But I don't think we've normalized talking about it, but there's a very big
00:09:00 --> 00:09:04 difference between talking about it and acting on it.
00:09:04 --> 00:09:10 You know, between saying it out loud and then sitting with someone in their
00:09:10 --> 00:09:13 shit when they're in the middle of the shit.
00:09:13 --> 00:09:16 Because it's uncomfortable and people don't want to be uncomfortable.
00:09:17 --> 00:09:20 Exactly. Well, people don't want to be the person who's in it,
00:09:20 --> 00:09:23 doesn't want to be that burden, doesn't want to be, like you said,
00:09:23 --> 00:09:27 perceived as weak or incapable. bowl of like, how come I can't?
00:09:28 --> 00:09:32 Why can't I? What's wrong with me that I can't run my own life?
00:09:32 --> 00:09:35 I can't be a functioning member of society.
00:09:35 --> 00:09:41 Why do I have to be put away? You know, people don't want to deal with that label and distinction.
00:09:41 --> 00:09:44 And then you're right. It's the people on the other side who are just absolutely
00:09:44 --> 00:09:50 terrified to sit with a person who is talking about ending their life.
00:09:50 --> 00:09:53 Like they don't, they just don't know what to do.
00:09:53 --> 00:09:57 And it's so hard to sit with somebody when they're in that place.
00:09:57 --> 00:10:03 And I think that is the gap that we need to be talking about as we're in the
00:10:03 --> 00:10:04 thick of Mental Health Awareness Month.
00:10:04 --> 00:10:08 Because like, I mean, look, it's true. We're talking about these things all
00:10:08 --> 00:10:09 the time now. And that's great.
00:10:09 --> 00:10:14 And September is Suicide Prevention Month. And, you know, we have all of these
00:10:14 --> 00:10:19 markers throughout the year that bring it to the forefront.
00:10:19 --> 00:10:23 And we are talking about it consistently. but we
00:10:23 --> 00:10:26 we need we need to do more
00:10:26 --> 00:10:33 than just be talking about talking about it we need to be talking about how
00:10:33 --> 00:10:38 to handle it how to sit in teaching some classes i mean i feel like we need
00:10:38 --> 00:10:44 to model some classes and and i think on our episode you did a great job with that.
00:10:45 --> 00:10:50 In when i shared with you i read the poems you did i think that was a good starting
00:10:50 --> 00:10:53 point and you know, not trying to toot our own horn or anything,
00:10:53 --> 00:10:58 but you know, it's, there's not enough like active modeling,
00:10:59 --> 00:11:03 showing people what to do or say in these situations.
00:11:03 --> 00:11:09 I mean, hell, I have been in situations where someone I cherish to the earth and,
00:11:09 --> 00:11:14 and shared with me that they were having these thoughts. And I even said the wrong things.
00:11:15 --> 00:11:21 You know, how, you know, that would break my heart if you did that. You can't leave me.
00:11:22 --> 00:11:26 You know, and those are just not the right things to say. People that are in
00:11:26 --> 00:11:30 those situations, they don't need to be reminded of what they have to live for.
00:11:30 --> 00:11:38 They don't need to be guilt tripped into staying longer. They just need you
00:11:38 --> 00:11:45 to sit with them in that uncomfortable and let them talk and just get it out.
00:11:45 --> 00:11:51 You know what I think, too, people need a reminder about, and I say this as
00:11:51 --> 00:11:58 someone who sits on lifelines holding space for these kinds of conversations all the time.
00:11:58 --> 00:12:01 It's how I spend a lot of my time.
00:12:02 --> 00:12:09 We are so afraid of what not to say that we don't realize that we can actually
00:12:09 --> 00:12:16 say, hey, I don't know what to say right now. I don't know how to help you.
00:12:16 --> 00:12:23 I'm going to be honest about that. I'm terrified, but I'm not going anywhere. I'm here.
00:12:24 --> 00:12:30 Use me being here as a way to offload what's going on.
00:12:30 --> 00:12:35 Share with me whatever you want to share. Like it is no more complicated than that.
00:12:35 --> 00:12:42 I know it's scary and it's intimidating, but if we're going to keep leveling up,
00:12:43 --> 00:12:48 our overall mental health awareness and action. I think it needs to be more
00:12:48 --> 00:12:50 than just mental health awareness.
00:12:51 --> 00:12:58 It needs to be a mental health action transition into, you know,
00:12:58 --> 00:13:04 how do we show up in those ways even when we're terrified?
00:13:04 --> 00:13:07 Number one, there's that piece of it. And then there's The other piece,
00:13:07 --> 00:13:11 like, now I'm talking to the people who are struggling.
00:13:12 --> 00:13:19 How do you get out from under the struggle enough to reach out for help when
00:13:19 --> 00:13:22 you're terrified of what will happen if you do?
00:13:22 --> 00:13:25 Like, look, you know what it is? You got two choices.
00:13:26 --> 00:13:29 You either help yourself or you don't help yourself.
00:13:29 --> 00:13:40 And we all know where that leads. And I feel like it's a far better risk to
00:13:40 --> 00:13:47 take when you're talking about your own mental health and your own instability to say, look,
00:13:47 --> 00:13:53 I want to be here, but I'm not okay and I need help.
00:13:53 --> 00:14:01 The alternative is to continue to spiral until something happens and you break.
00:14:01 --> 00:14:06 And when you break on that level and do something you can't undo,
00:14:07 --> 00:14:08 well, that's it. It's over.
00:14:09 --> 00:14:13 It's over. And then that's a whole different situation.
00:14:14 --> 00:14:15 Right. And...
00:14:16 --> 00:14:23 You know, the risk is worth the reward in terms of just be honest.
00:14:23 --> 00:14:27 And yeah, you might have to go through it. And yeah, maybe it does mean you have to be sectioned.
00:14:27 --> 00:14:35 And that's going to suck. But we had my friend Caleb on, Caleb Powers, just a few weeks ago.
00:14:36 --> 00:14:39 And he is a very unique kind of a survivor.
00:14:40 --> 00:14:46 His father was lost in 1983 at sea in a catastrophic shipping accident.
00:14:46 --> 00:14:49 A ship went down and Caleb was supposed to be on the boat.
00:14:49 --> 00:14:52 His father died. He was supposed to be on the boat. He wasn't.
00:14:52 --> 00:14:57 His life spiraled after that. He went out of control.
00:14:57 --> 00:14:59 This is when we were young and in junior high and high school.
00:15:00 --> 00:15:03 And he had that same choice offered to him.
00:15:03 --> 00:15:07 He was a young kid. He was like, I'm not going away. I'm not going to help myself.
00:15:07 --> 00:15:12 I'm not going to tell people I'm in need of help until he did.
00:15:12 --> 00:15:16 Until he did actually say the words, I need help.
00:15:16 --> 00:15:22 I'm not okay. And he went away and he's been clean and sober for 40 years, over 40 years.
00:15:22 --> 00:15:27 And he spent that 30 days in that locked unit and he'll be the first one to
00:15:27 --> 00:15:35 say, that sucked in every possible way, but I have the life that I have now because of that.
00:15:35 --> 00:15:38 So you look at stories like that and situations like that and you say,
00:15:39 --> 00:15:42 okay, Not that I want to distill it down to this, but the juice is worth the squeeze.
00:15:42 --> 00:15:50 Do you know what I mean? The juice is worth the squeeze. If you're not okay, say you're not okay.
00:15:50 --> 00:15:57 It requires speaking that out loud and reaching out and taking somebody's hand.
00:15:57 --> 00:16:00 Because if you're not doing it on your own, there's only one other way to do
00:16:00 --> 00:16:00 it, and that's with help.
00:16:01 --> 00:16:06 So that's what we have to, we have to, we have to close that gap where people
00:16:06 --> 00:16:09 are no longer afraid to not just talk about it, but to act on it.
00:16:10 --> 00:16:16 Yeah. I think, you know, for me, being afraid of that, being on that hold, you know,
00:16:17 --> 00:16:23 what, some sort of perception within myself, and I'm sure this stems from childhood
00:16:23 --> 00:16:29 bullshit, you know, where I'd be perceived as being weak and less than.
00:16:30 --> 00:16:35 Because you know growing up in a polygamous cult it was all about perception
00:16:35 --> 00:16:39 and how it looked to the outside world and you know within our community.
00:16:41 --> 00:16:45 So walk me through just for my own peace of mind and for those that are listening,
00:16:46 --> 00:16:51 what it would look like if say i called the hotline and i said i'm not okay
00:16:51 --> 00:16:53 i'm about to hurt myself.
00:16:54 --> 00:16:58 Walk us through like what would happen in that situation.
00:16:59 --> 00:17:04 Looking for mental health resources that actually fit who you are and where you come from?
00:17:04 --> 00:17:08 Then you need to check out the Help Hub. It's not another generic wellness site.
00:17:09 --> 00:17:14 It's a free, inclusive online platform built for real people living real lives.
00:17:14 --> 00:17:21 People managing stress, anxiety, depression, trauma and abuse, grief or suicide loss.
00:17:22 --> 00:17:25 At the Help Hub, you'll find the resources, tools, treatment options,
00:17:26 --> 00:17:30 and trauma-informed content you need in the moment without having to dig through
00:17:30 --> 00:17:32 endless tabs or start from scratch.
00:17:32 --> 00:17:38 It's your place to land, to take a breath, and to find exactly what you need when you need it most.
00:17:39 --> 00:17:43 Visit thehelphub.co, where the help you need is just a click away.
00:17:48 --> 00:17:54 So I already mentioned a risk assessment. That is whether you're on the 988
00:17:54 --> 00:18:02 crisis lifeline or you're on the Trevor lifeline, any of these lifelines operate in a similar way.
00:18:02 --> 00:18:09 You are going to be asked a series of risk assessment questions within typically
00:18:09 --> 00:18:10 within the first five minutes.
00:18:10 --> 00:18:14 And they're almost always going to be the two questions that I said earlier.
00:18:14 --> 00:18:18 Number one, are you thinking of killing yourself?
00:18:18 --> 00:18:23 And I want to talk about that one in detail for a second because there is still
00:18:23 --> 00:18:28 a very big, big misconception out there that if you ask someone who might be
00:18:28 --> 00:18:31 suicidal, if they are suicidal and thinking of harming themselves,
00:18:32 --> 00:18:36 people are terrified to ask that question because they think.
00:18:37 --> 00:18:42 That that puts the idea into someone's head and will push the person closer
00:18:42 --> 00:18:45 to actually taking their life. That is false.
00:18:45 --> 00:18:47 That is false. And I'll tell you why.
00:18:48 --> 00:18:52 It's false because when you ask the person who's struggling.
00:18:52 --> 00:18:55 Are you thinking of harming yourself or killing yourself?
00:18:56 --> 00:18:59 Immediately, you just validated that person's pain.
00:18:59 --> 00:19:05 You just said to that person, I see you and I see that you're not okay and I
00:19:05 --> 00:19:10 understand how hard this is for you. I am a safe place. I am taking this seriously.
00:19:11 --> 00:19:16 So that question, whether it comes from me as a crisis counselor or whether
00:19:16 --> 00:19:20 it comes from you to one of your friends or to one of your kids or whatever the context is,
00:19:21 --> 00:19:28 that question is never going to push someone toward ending their life.
00:19:28 --> 00:19:32 If anything, it has been proven time and time and time again.
00:19:32 --> 00:19:36 You can pick a thousand different studies out there that prove that that reduces
00:19:36 --> 00:19:40 the risk of someone actually acting on it and ending their life.
00:19:40 --> 00:19:45 So that's question number one. And that is something like, you and I right now,
00:19:46 --> 00:19:52 this is like getting into the nuts and bolts of the gap we were talking about.
00:19:52 --> 00:19:58 Like, what should we, could we be doing right now to take the just talking about
00:19:58 --> 00:20:05 mental health and making that more acceptable to helping someone through a mental health crisis?
00:20:05 --> 00:20:10 So now we're in that part of the conversation. So the second thing that we do
00:20:10 --> 00:20:14 is say, have you done anything today that.
00:20:14 --> 00:20:21 To try and harm yourself. Now, keep in mind, if the person answers your first
00:20:21 --> 00:20:24 question, says, nope, I'm not thinking of killing myself at all.
00:20:24 --> 00:20:26 Okay, well, then the conversation changes.
00:20:27 --> 00:20:31 What's going on with you? What's happening with you? What made you call or what's
00:20:31 --> 00:20:36 giving you these, you know, these feelings that you're anxious or you're depressed?
00:20:36 --> 00:20:40 So that's one kind of, you go down that decision tree. You go down one side
00:20:40 --> 00:20:44 if it's a yes and the other side if it's a no. If the person said to you,
00:20:44 --> 00:20:47 yes, I'm thinking, I'm having those thoughts, I want to end my life.
00:20:47 --> 00:20:50 Okay, have you done anything to harm yourself today? If they say no.
00:20:51 --> 00:20:56 Again, now you're talking safety plans because you know the person's thinking,
00:20:56 --> 00:21:00 I don't want to be here, I'm thinking these thoughts.
00:21:00 --> 00:21:06 It's now you want to dig deeper and ask, okay, well, what brought up these feelings?
00:21:06 --> 00:21:08 What's making you, have you made any plans?
00:21:08 --> 00:21:12 Do you have a plan? What is the plan? Do you have a timeline?
00:21:13 --> 00:21:19 When is the timeline? And so much of what you do next depends on how they answer.
00:21:19 --> 00:21:23 If someone says, yeah, I have a plan, and you say, okay, well,
00:21:23 --> 00:21:27 whatever it is that you're going to use to do this, is that, do you have that?
00:21:28 --> 00:21:31 Yep, that's in the same room, or that's in the next room. You're going to separate
00:21:31 --> 00:21:35 them from the means to harm themselves.
00:21:35 --> 00:21:39 Well, do me a favor. While we're talking, if you're with the person or if you're
00:21:39 --> 00:21:43 on the phone with the person, while we're together or while we're talking,
00:21:43 --> 00:21:45 can you go into a different place?
00:21:45 --> 00:21:49 If you're in that room, go into another room. Make sure you separate.
00:21:50 --> 00:21:53 And then you're talking about timeline. When are you thinking about doing this?
00:21:53 --> 00:21:56 Well, I'm doing it tonight. Well, okay. So that's imminent.
00:21:57 --> 00:22:03 Puts things at a different level. You're at imminent risk because you have the
00:22:03 --> 00:22:08 intention, you have the means, you're telling me that you want to do it now, today, tonight.
00:22:09 --> 00:22:15 So my job, and this is where the kind of interventions, several different kinds
00:22:15 --> 00:22:21 of interventions come into play, that ideally what you want to try and do is
00:22:21 --> 00:22:22 have someone help themselves.
00:22:23 --> 00:22:28 You want to encourage someone to reach out to a therapist, reach out to a family
00:22:28 --> 00:22:31 member, reach out to a friend, reach out to a co-worker.
00:22:32 --> 00:22:37 Somehow disrupt this thought process. That's what you want to do. What if they refuse?
00:22:38 --> 00:22:42 Well, then it goes into, so that's called self-intervention,
00:22:42 --> 00:22:47 where you encourage the person to kind of take care of themselves on their own
00:22:47 --> 00:22:48 to keep themselves safe.
00:22:48 --> 00:22:54 If that doesn't work, then you progress to that next step, which is called,
00:22:54 --> 00:22:58 like, it's like a partial intervention where they're letting,
00:22:58 --> 00:23:03 I offer, say, okay, listen, hey, look, I know you're not good right now. Can I help you?
00:23:04 --> 00:23:09 Can I, like, let's pretend for a minute that you're just having this conversation
00:23:09 --> 00:23:12 with someone who's a friend. You're not a crisis counselor. You're a friend.
00:23:13 --> 00:23:16 Well, can we call 988 together?
00:23:17 --> 00:23:19 Can I get you on the phone with your therapist?
00:23:20 --> 00:23:22 Can you, you know, can you promise me that you're going to make the call?
00:23:22 --> 00:23:25 Do you want me to make the call for you? Do you want me to set the appointment
00:23:25 --> 00:23:26 for you? That kind of thing.
00:23:26 --> 00:23:32 So you're trying to work with them together, even offering to them to help.
00:23:33 --> 00:23:37 Then if they're like no no i'm doing
00:23:37 --> 00:23:40 this well then you do have to
00:23:40 --> 00:23:43 be prepared to take a different step and
00:23:43 --> 00:23:46 in some cases not often does not happen on
00:23:46 --> 00:23:49 our lifelines that often where we have
00:23:49 --> 00:23:52 to do what's called an involuntary intervention and that does
00:23:52 --> 00:23:55 mean calling your local
00:23:55 --> 00:23:58 crisis team whether it be you know
00:23:58 --> 00:24:02 police fire whoever may
00:24:02 --> 00:24:05 be close enough to reach that person and
00:24:05 --> 00:24:08 and do a wellness check and have someone go in
00:24:08 --> 00:24:14 and intervene and in that case that kind of gets handed off either from a lifeline
00:24:14 --> 00:24:17 it gets handed off to first responders or if you're a friend it gets handed
00:24:17 --> 00:24:23 off and then those people are the ones who in most cases will will intervene
00:24:23 --> 00:24:26 and will will take that person to a place where they can be safe.
00:24:27 --> 00:24:32 And so those are the things that we can be doing,
00:24:33 --> 00:24:39 to ensure that people are honest about what's really happening and getting the
00:24:39 --> 00:24:44 kind of help and support and safety plan in place that they need when they need it.
00:24:45 --> 00:24:52 And... I just had an idea. Yeah. I think that we should have somebody on that
00:24:52 --> 00:24:58 has actually gone under a 72-hour hold or voluntarily or involuntarily gone.
00:24:58 --> 00:25:00 I actually know of somebody.
00:25:00 --> 00:25:07 She said she went in for a week because she was not okay, and she's very grateful that she did.
00:25:07 --> 00:25:13 And so I think it would be interesting to have a conversation with her so that
00:25:13 --> 00:25:17 everybody can hear, you know, from an actual somebody that's been through the
00:25:17 --> 00:25:22 process to better understand, because I think a lot of it is the fear of the unknown.
00:25:23 --> 00:25:28 That holds people back. And, you know, that's where we're, again,
00:25:28 --> 00:25:32 bridging the gap of awareness versus the actual, like, knowing.
00:25:33 --> 00:25:40 It's that, the lack of the unknown of what's happening in there.
00:25:40 --> 00:25:45 So, you know, let's put that in our cap and we'll see what we can do to have
00:25:45 --> 00:25:46 that person on as a guest.
00:25:47 --> 00:25:52 I'm all for that. This is a great conversation. I'm loving where it's going. Yeah.
00:25:52 --> 00:25:57 You know, I never, this person that I'm referring to, I haven't,
00:25:57 --> 00:26:00 you know, somebody I know, we've had a couple conversations,
00:26:00 --> 00:26:04 you know, we're more of acquaintances, but she's very open and honest about
00:26:04 --> 00:26:08 her experience and she's very passionate about it and things like that.
00:26:08 --> 00:26:09 So I'm pretty sure she'd be willing to share.
00:26:10 --> 00:26:13 But I also do want to say that there's a gal that I follow on social media.
00:26:13 --> 00:26:15 Her name's Gabriela Walker.
00:26:16 --> 00:26:22 And she recently went on, she voluntarily put herself, and she documented what
00:26:22 --> 00:26:26 she could and posted pictures and things on social media and was like actively
00:26:26 --> 00:26:30 showing what was happening to her as she was having a mental break.
00:26:30 --> 00:26:33 And she too has experienced, and
00:26:33 --> 00:26:37 this is why I follow her, pretty severe abuse by her mother as a child.
00:26:38 --> 00:26:42 And she has some pretty severe mental health issues because of it.
00:26:42 --> 00:26:44 And so that I kind of opened up my
00:26:44 --> 00:26:47 eyes a little bit too you know and she was
00:26:47 --> 00:26:50 she was very clear when she got out she
00:26:50 --> 00:26:54 got her phone back and she's like okay they put me on this med for a couple
00:26:54 --> 00:26:58 of days or a week it didn't work we had to try something else so you know it's
00:26:58 --> 00:27:02 just different things like that where maybe that's where we're getting so much
00:27:02 --> 00:27:06 information from social media is a good thing and a bad thing too you know you
00:27:06 --> 00:27:10 talk about the loneliness epidemic because Again, we've talked about it.
00:27:10 --> 00:27:14 Too many people are spending too much time in front of a screen and not enough
00:27:14 --> 00:27:17 time having actual open and honest conversations.
00:27:17 --> 00:27:24 And I love the idea of having someone with that perspective come on,
00:27:24 --> 00:27:26 because I know that in the past,
00:27:26 --> 00:27:34 a couple of times over the last four seasons, I've described what I do when
00:27:34 --> 00:27:40 I encounter people who are suicidal on lifelines and things like that.
00:27:40 --> 00:27:43 And I think that those kinds of conversations are so valuable because I know
00:27:43 --> 00:27:47 that in the past, like when I've had them, I've made comments in the past like.
00:27:48 --> 00:27:54 Just because you're not suicidal doesn't mean you can't call a hotline.
00:27:54 --> 00:27:59 I can't tell you how many people have commented, reached out,
00:27:59 --> 00:28:03 slid into DMs and said to me, that comment that you made, I couldn't believe
00:28:03 --> 00:28:07 that that's really the case.
00:28:07 --> 00:28:13 I really always assumed that you had to be suicidal to call a suicide and crisis hotline.
00:28:13 --> 00:28:17 I'm like, then it would just be called a suicide hotline. It's suicide and crisis,
00:28:17 --> 00:28:25 which means whatever you consider to be a mental health crisis in your life is worth calling.
00:28:25 --> 00:28:28 And so that really did a good job.
00:28:29 --> 00:28:32 Those kinds of conversations do a really good job, I think, from the inside
00:28:32 --> 00:28:38 where people are the ones who are the counselors or the therapists or the patients.
00:28:39 --> 00:28:43 Like, those, I think, are the best conversations because lived experience,
00:28:43 --> 00:28:49 like, there is no better way for people to find points of connection than with
00:28:49 --> 00:28:51 other people's lived experience that matches their own.
00:28:51 --> 00:28:55 So I think having your friend on, if she's willing to come on,
00:28:55 --> 00:28:57 would be an amazing conversation.
00:28:57 --> 00:28:59 Okay, I will jot it down.
00:29:00 --> 00:29:05 You know, and I, what you just barely said, I did not know until I met you that
00:29:05 --> 00:29:08 the crisis hotlines were for any reason.
00:29:08 --> 00:29:15 I, again, somebody who has been struggling with their mental health for decades had no idea.
00:29:15 --> 00:29:17 And I can honestly say I have never once called those hotlines.
00:29:19 --> 00:29:24 Well, you're not alone because I feel like more people don't know that everybody
00:29:24 --> 00:29:27 can call with whatever issue they have.
00:29:27 --> 00:29:31 I think more people don't know that than do know that. So you're definitely
00:29:31 --> 00:29:38 not alone in that way. And, you know, I'm not surprised, actually,
00:29:38 --> 00:29:41 that you haven't called a hotline. I'm not.
00:29:42 --> 00:29:48 Because it's just not something everybody thinks about.
00:29:48 --> 00:29:54 It's just, you know, I mean, people don't instinctively go in that direction.
00:29:54 --> 00:29:56 You know, people are fearful.
00:29:57 --> 00:30:01 People are, I mean, I have people, one of the interesting things about calling
00:30:01 --> 00:30:04 a lifeline is that we ask for your first name.
00:30:05 --> 00:30:10 We say, just what name would you like me to call you? I don't care what name you give me.
00:30:10 --> 00:30:14 I just want to be respectful and call you what you want me to call you.
00:30:14 --> 00:30:16 People give us aliases all the time.
00:30:16 --> 00:30:20 We typically ask what city and state are you calling from just so we can help
00:30:20 --> 00:30:25 provide resources in that area. If you need resources, a lot of people don't
00:30:25 --> 00:30:27 want to tell us where they're calling from.
00:30:27 --> 00:30:31 A lot of people call in anonymously because they don't want to be traced.
00:30:31 --> 00:30:33 So people are afraid.
00:30:33 --> 00:30:38 People are – the fear factor is still – it's a real thing.
00:30:38 --> 00:30:43 And I think that the more conversations we have out in the mainstream,
00:30:43 --> 00:30:49 like this conversation, which kind of busts those myths, it's so important because
00:30:49 --> 00:30:51 now people can be like, oh, wait, what?
00:30:51 --> 00:30:56 I can call a lifeline even if I just had a really bad breakup or if I just lost
00:30:56 --> 00:31:00 my job or I'm having some food insecurity. I can?
00:31:01 --> 00:31:06 Yeah, of course you can. I think the more we debunk these myths,
00:31:06 --> 00:31:14 the more likely people are to recognize all of the kinds of supports that they have out there.
00:31:14 --> 00:31:17 And you probably just wasn't even on your radar, right?
00:31:17 --> 00:31:20 Correct. Was it not? Is that why?
00:31:21 --> 00:31:28 It was not on my radar. I mean, my first suicide attempt was in 2004.
00:31:29 --> 00:31:33 Were there even crisis hotlines back then? What year did you say? 2004.
00:31:34 --> 00:31:38 Yeah. I mean, I know that in the case of the Trevor Project,
00:31:38 --> 00:31:43 Trevor has been around for, oh, God, 27 years.
00:31:44 --> 00:31:50 And the 988 lifeline, I mean, the 988 shortened lifeline that we all know now,
00:31:50 --> 00:31:53 that three digits has only been around for about three or four years,
00:31:53 --> 00:31:58 but there was an 800 number prior to that that people could call.
00:31:58 --> 00:32:02 And that's been around for a long time, but it was not publicized like it is now.
00:32:02 --> 00:32:08 That really only happened in the last handful of years where there's this huge
00:32:08 --> 00:32:14 national campaign about like we've got 911 for certain types of emergencies.
00:32:14 --> 00:32:19 Well, we need to have a similar type of quick access number for mental health
00:32:19 --> 00:32:20 emergencies as well. So this is new.
00:32:21 --> 00:32:28 Okay. Yeah. I mean, the interesting thing though is when I have been,
00:32:28 --> 00:32:31 had my suicide attempts, I had made that decision.
00:32:32 --> 00:32:37 And there was no talking me out of it.
00:32:37 --> 00:32:41 And, you know, in fact, George, my husband, was aware that, you know,
00:32:41 --> 00:32:47 and I've explained this before, where I said, I, you've got a choice here. I'm going to do it.
00:32:47 --> 00:32:50 Or you can go ahead and call and have me committed, do all the things.
00:32:50 --> 00:32:55 I'll do what I have to do to get out, but I'll get out and I'll do it anyway. So I, again...
00:32:56 --> 00:33:01 I didn't give him a choice, and I made him leave knowing that he was most likely
00:33:01 --> 00:33:03 never going to see me again.
00:33:04 --> 00:33:09 Because I had fully committed to that decision. I don't think if I had called
00:33:09 --> 00:33:11 a hotline that you could have talked me out of it.
00:33:11 --> 00:33:15 I mean, if my own boyfriend at the time couldn't talk me out of it,
00:33:15 --> 00:33:17 then what was some stranger going to do?
00:33:17 --> 00:33:20 Yeah so you know there there
00:33:20 --> 00:33:23 is there is that too i i don't want to give
00:33:23 --> 00:33:26 you know and the conversation on a on a sad
00:33:26 --> 00:33:29 note but you know i i do want to say that it's the
00:33:29 --> 00:33:32 important thing is is number one finding a safe
00:33:32 --> 00:33:37 person to talk to somebody that you trust and being
00:33:37 --> 00:33:40 vulnerable and honest with them and letting them know
00:33:40 --> 00:33:43 look it is and just telling them look i understand if
00:33:43 --> 00:33:47 you don't know what to say to me in this moment i just need to tell someone
00:33:47 --> 00:33:53 and i trust you and i love you enough to share this information with you but
00:33:53 --> 00:33:58 i am not okay mentally and this is what i've been thinking about or what's been
00:33:58 --> 00:34:00 going through my head whatever but,
00:34:01 --> 00:34:07 In my case with you, in January, I was sharing poems that were just coming to my mind.
00:34:08 --> 00:34:12 But there was something very cathartic about just getting that.
00:34:13 --> 00:34:21 It was like this darkness within me and getting that out in front of you and your awareness of it.
00:34:21 --> 00:34:24 And then I later then told my George, my George, my husband.
00:34:25 --> 00:34:30 He is your George. He is my George. There was a relief in it. Mm-hmm.
00:34:30 --> 00:34:36 And not carrying that burden alone. I think that, and this is probably a good
00:34:36 --> 00:34:39 place to wrap this conversation, at the end of the day,
00:34:40 --> 00:34:43 surviving, surviving anything, whatever it is,
00:34:44 --> 00:34:46 any kind of, and obviously in the context of this conversation,
00:34:46 --> 00:34:50 we're talking about mental health struggles or mental illness,
00:34:50 --> 00:34:56 is not something that we are meant to do alone. It just isn't.
00:34:56 --> 00:35:00 It isn't. We need each other. We need to support each other.
00:35:00 --> 00:35:01 We need to help each other.
00:35:01 --> 00:35:04 We need to validate each other. We need to see and hear each other.
00:35:04 --> 00:35:08 And not even in big, big, dramatic ways.
00:35:08 --> 00:35:14 It can be like small, consistent, honest ways.
00:35:15 --> 00:35:21 We do need that kind of support. So if there's one thing to take from this conversation
00:35:21 --> 00:35:28 as we are smack in the middle of Mental Health Awareness Month is that awareness matters.
00:35:28 --> 00:35:32 We have to be aware of what's going on within ourselves and we have to make
00:35:32 --> 00:35:35 the outside world aware of what's going on with ourselves.
00:35:36 --> 00:35:42 And connection with those people around us, that is what saves lives.
00:35:43 --> 00:35:47 It's as simple as that. Have the conversation. Check on your people.
00:35:47 --> 00:35:51 Tell the truth about how you're feeling.
00:35:51 --> 00:35:57 As hard as it may be to say and for someone else to hear, the minute you speak
00:35:57 --> 00:36:05 up, anyone speaks up, that is when you make it easier for yourself to survive
00:36:05 --> 00:36:06 and for someone to help you.
00:36:07 --> 00:36:11 Absolutely. I love that. so we
00:36:11 --> 00:36:14 will be back right here next week
00:36:14 --> 00:36:18 for believe it or not season four
00:36:18 --> 00:36:21 season recap we are
00:36:21 --> 00:36:24 done with season four at the end of
00:36:24 --> 00:36:27 our next episode so we're going to come
00:36:27 --> 00:36:30 back and we're just going to quickly blast through
00:36:30 --> 00:36:33 all 14 of our
00:36:33 --> 00:36:36 episodes from this season our second full
00:36:36 --> 00:36:40 season together which can't even believe and we
00:36:40 --> 00:36:45 we're just going to touch on on all the goodness we had a lot of really special
00:36:45 --> 00:36:50 things happen this season so we're going to go back and recap that and we will
00:36:50 --> 00:36:56 see you right back here next wednesday in in the meantime you know what to do
00:36:56 --> 00:36:58 keep surviving take care.
00:36:59 --> 00:37:02 Thanks so much for listening and for being part of the Survivors community.
00:37:03 --> 00:37:07 No matter where you are in your story, you're not alone and you're definitely not broken.
00:37:08 --> 00:37:12 Healing takes time and it looks different for everyone. The fact that you're
00:37:12 --> 00:37:16 still here and still trying means you're already doing the hard work.
00:37:16 --> 00:37:21 If something in today's conversation resonated with you, please share it with
00:37:21 --> 00:37:22 someone who might need to hear it too.
00:37:22 --> 00:37:27 That's how we keep these conversations going and remind each other that there's always hope.
00:37:28 --> 00:37:30 And if you or someone you know is struggling, please remember,
00:37:31 --> 00:37:32 help is always out there.
00:37:32 --> 00:37:37 You can call or text 988 anytime to reach a trained crisis counselor like me.
00:37:37 --> 00:37:40 And for more mental health resources, tools, treatment options,
00:37:40 --> 00:37:44 and content to support your mental health, visit thehelphub.co.
00:37:44 --> 00:37:48 We're so grateful you're part of the Survivors family, and we'll be back next
00:37:48 --> 00:37:52 week with another honest conversation about life after the hardest things.
00:37:52 --> 00:37:58 Until then, take care of yourself and your people, and keep surviving. Thank you.