*WARNING: This podcast mentions suicide & trauma and may be triggering.
Episode Summary
In part two of our conversation with Ange Johnson, Ange continues her story about leaving the FLDS polygamist community, the unexpected reunion with her teenage husband after a year apart, navigating early parenthood, finding sobriety and a career in labor and delivery, and using her voice to help others heal from cult trauma while rebuilding a life of safety and freedom.
Episode Sponsored by The HelpHUB™
Struggling with your mental health? Feeling lost, overwhelmed, or just alone? Well, you're not. Welcome to The HelpHUB™—your online destination for mental health resources, treatment options, content, and tools to help meet you exactly where you are in the moment. Visit TheHelpHUB.co to get started.
Key Topics
- Ange Johnson's childhood in the FLDS cult
- Her marriage and escape at age 16
- The trauma bonding with her ex-husband Cade
- Her journey of healing and sobriety
- Her advocacy and social media presence
- The ongoing influence of the FLDS community
- Breaking cycles of abuse and control
- The importance of sharing stories for healing
Takeaways
- Healing is a lifelong process that involves facing pain and growth.
- Sharing your story can empower others and foster community.
- Breaking cycles requires courage and support.
- Resilience is built through honesty, therapy, and community.
- Leaving a cult involves complex emotional and social challenges.
Chapters
00:00 - Introduction to Ange Johnson's story 02:37 - Marriage and escape from the FLDS cult 04:14 - Rekindling connection and trauma bonding 06:22 - Moving to Utah and falling in love again 08:36 - First experiences of intimacy and pregnancy 10:01 - Parenting and breaking free from religious control 12:38 - Living in the Pacific Northwest and family ties 15:30 - Sharing her story and advocacy work 19:41 - Healing journey and ongoing recovery 23:11 - Supporting others and breaking the cycle
Mental Health Resources
- If you or someone you know is struggling, please call 988 for help.
- The Survivors Podcast Website – https://thesurvivors.net/
- National Domestic Violence Hotline – Call 1-800-799-SAFE (7223)
- Surviving: Finding Hope After Suicide Loss (Familius Books)
- The HelpHUB™ – Mental health resources, tools, and support networks – https://www.thehelphub.co/
- To follow and connect with Ange, find her on Instagram at angemfj and on TikTok at cadesbabe
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See you next week! In the meantime, keep surviving.
00:00:00 --> 00:00:03 Hey, friends. Before we dive into this week's episode, just a heads up.
00:00:04 --> 00:00:08 Our podcast talks about suicide, sexual abuse, and other trauma,
00:00:08 --> 00:00:12 and some of what you hear may be triggering. So please listen with care.
00:00:13 --> 00:00:18 This is The Survivors. Real stories, raw conversations, and the truth about
00:00:18 --> 00:00:20 what it means to keep going after the hardest things.
00:00:21 --> 00:00:24 We're so glad you're here. Let's keep surviving together.
00:00:25 --> 00:00:28 This week on The Survivors, we're continuing our conversation with Ange Johnson.
00:00:29 --> 00:00:33 In part one, Ange shared what it was like growing up in the FLDS polygamy cult
00:00:33 --> 00:00:34 and becoming a child bride.
00:00:35 --> 00:00:38 Now, in part two, we're talking about what happened after she left,
00:00:38 --> 00:00:42 how she rebuilt her life, unlearned everything she'd been taught,
00:00:42 --> 00:00:45 and figured out who she was outside the only world she'd ever known.
00:00:46 --> 00:00:49 Here's part two of our conversation with Ange Johnson.
00:00:50 --> 00:00:53 You're just killing me, Nash. You're killing me with the little countdown.
00:00:54 --> 00:00:59 So, we're back with Ange Johnson, who joined us last week.
00:00:59 --> 00:01:02 Ange, hi. Welcome back. Hello.
00:01:03 --> 00:01:09 So if you didn't listen to our absolutely riveting and somewhat horrifying episode
00:01:09 --> 00:01:16 from last week, where Ange really gave us a snapshot of her life as a former,
00:01:17 --> 00:01:22 FLDS cult member, she was born, just like Natasha, into the Fundamentalist,
00:01:23 --> 00:01:25 Church of Latter-day Saints, the FLDS cult,
00:01:26 --> 00:01:33 that really just took away every freedom a child could possibly have.
00:01:34 --> 00:01:40 You were up in Canada, and you had an incredibly challenging childhood,
00:01:40 --> 00:01:43 being the second oldest daughter in your household.
00:01:44 --> 00:01:49 You were responsible for a multitude of siblings and taking care of them,
00:01:49 --> 00:01:56 and you ended up being married to a man you didn't know named Cade.
00:01:57 --> 00:02:00 And that whole situation kind of went awry.
00:02:01 --> 00:02:04 It happened very suddenly, and well, suddenly, I guess,
00:02:05 --> 00:02:08 on the wedding day, it happened suddenly, but it was kind of an on-again,
00:02:08 --> 00:02:12 off-again thing, and you ended up being introduced to him, and shortly after
00:02:12 --> 00:02:15 that, you were married to him, and shortly after that, you decided you did not
00:02:15 --> 00:02:17 want to be married to him, so you.
00:02:18 --> 00:02:23 Moved out of your house with him back into your parents' house where they did
00:02:23 --> 00:02:30 not want you to return because it was a very big black mark against your family
00:02:30 --> 00:02:32 for leaving your husband.
00:02:32 --> 00:02:36 And for anyone who wants all the backstory, I highly recommend you listen to
00:02:36 --> 00:02:38 the episode right before this episode.
00:02:38 --> 00:02:42 But we're coming back because we left it off at a bit of a cliffhanger that
00:02:42 --> 00:02:48 you had been married. You left him and you were married at the age of 16. He was 19.
00:02:49 --> 00:02:55 And you were rebelling against the FLDS and against your life and your upbringing.
00:02:56 --> 00:03:02 And you left him and found out that he decided to do the same thing.
00:03:02 --> 00:03:08 He left and changed his life and walked away from the church and you were seeking
00:03:08 --> 00:03:14 a divorce to be able to go back to school and have agency over your own life and your future.
00:03:14 --> 00:03:18 And you met up with him to try and get a divorce. And what happened?
00:03:19 --> 00:03:22 This is where you can jump right back in. You're sitting in a car with him after...
00:03:22 --> 00:03:23 How long had it been since you had seen him?
00:03:24 --> 00:03:28 Sorry, sorry. Big, big truck. There's a thing about trucks and FLDS,
00:03:28 --> 00:03:32 like girls from the FLDS, we love those big trucks. Yeah, yeah.
00:03:33 --> 00:03:36 That's a whole different show. Well, I think the stories from the FLDS make
00:03:36 --> 00:03:40 amazing big trucks. Like, they know how to put them together, so... They do.
00:03:41 --> 00:03:43 So don't let Kate hear that part of the story, because... No,
00:03:43 --> 00:03:48 no, no, we won't. It wasn't the truck. Okay. It wasn't the truck. So you... How long...
00:03:49 --> 00:03:53 Was it you you were married to him how long were you married to him was it eight weeks,
00:03:54 --> 00:03:57 six weeks well that i was with him yes so i was with him for about six to eight
00:03:57 --> 00:04:02 weeks and it wasn't until the following year it was almost a year oh it was
00:04:03 --> 00:04:08 yeah so you saw him again after i had left him that we we started talking again
00:04:08 --> 00:04:12 okay so you you left him and you went home to your parents and they were like
00:04:12 --> 00:04:15 nope you're this is not sustainable
00:04:15 --> 00:04:18 you went to an aunt who you had never met, who had left the church,
00:04:18 --> 00:04:21 who was more progressive, who wanted to help you get an education.
00:04:21 --> 00:04:25 So flash forward, now you've been away from Cade for a year.
00:04:25 --> 00:04:27 In that time, he's left the church.
00:04:27 --> 00:04:32 You meet him to try and get a divorce, and now you're sitting in the big FLDS truck.
00:04:34 --> 00:04:38 We should call them the big FLDS truck. That's what we're going to do from now
00:04:38 --> 00:04:40 on. Yes, from now on. So what happened?
00:04:41 --> 00:04:46 So at first, it was just like complete trauma bonding over everything that had
00:04:46 --> 00:04:50 happened, everything that had gone on in the last year. We were just kind of
00:04:50 --> 00:04:53 catching up with each other. Like, oh, my gosh.
00:04:53 --> 00:04:57 Like I said, all of these things, he was introducing me to new music.
00:04:57 --> 00:05:01 And just the strangest thing was I just felt comfortable.
00:05:01 --> 00:05:04 And I was just like, this is weird. Like, why am I comfortable?
00:05:04 --> 00:05:09 I don't like this guy. You know, like I'm telling myself, you don't like him.
00:05:09 --> 00:05:11 It's just, we need to get a divorce, you know?
00:05:13 --> 00:05:18 But we decided that night that we weren't going to get a divorce.
00:05:18 --> 00:05:20 Well, we didn't decide that night we weren't going to get a divorce.
00:05:21 --> 00:05:26 We just cruised up and down State Street in Salt Lake for hours listening to
00:05:26 --> 00:05:29 music. And it was just fun. We had fun for a minute.
00:05:30 --> 00:05:35 And I ended up, we didn't talk about a divorce, not once.
00:05:35 --> 00:05:40 And I went back and my aunt was kind of like, did you decide you're going to get a divorce?
00:05:40 --> 00:05:44 And we were like, I was like, oh, well, I didn't kind of didn't talk about it.
00:05:44 --> 00:05:47 We kind of like each other now. It didn't come up. And we didn't.
00:05:47 --> 00:05:51 We didn't really bring that up. We just kind of talked about everything else under the sun.
00:05:52 --> 00:05:56 So I went back to Oregon with my aunt and ended up having a few conversations
00:05:56 --> 00:05:59 with Kate over the phone, talking here and there.
00:05:59 --> 00:06:02 Okay, really long conversations over the phone. Mm-hmm.
00:06:04 --> 00:06:06 After a few months. You've actually got to be a teenage girl,
00:06:06 --> 00:06:10 though, and like have phone conversations with a boy that you liked.
00:06:11 --> 00:06:14 It was strange. It was so weird and so fun.
00:06:15 --> 00:06:21 And so we ended up deciding he was like, well, my aunt was a little bit frustrated
00:06:21 --> 00:06:24 because she really wanted to just give me this whole new life.
00:06:24 --> 00:06:26 And she had all these aspirations for me.
00:06:27 --> 00:06:31 And here I am just kind of resorting back to this boy, you know,
00:06:31 --> 00:06:35 and back to what she perceived as a religion. And, you know,
00:06:35 --> 00:06:38 she really wanted me to just have this fresh, clean slate. And I just,
00:06:38 --> 00:06:41 I admire her so much for that. And I appreciate it.
00:06:41 --> 00:06:45 But she was a little bit hurt that I was talking to him.
00:06:46 --> 00:06:50 And so she wasn't super supportive of it. And he was like, well,
00:06:50 --> 00:06:52 why don't you just come live with me for a little bit?
00:06:53 --> 00:06:57 The worst that can happen is we can get a divorce. And that was like the first
00:06:57 --> 00:07:02 Most of our, you know, well, the worst that could happen is we could just get
00:07:02 --> 00:07:03 a divorce. We're already married.
00:07:03 --> 00:07:05 We could just give it a try, you know?
00:07:06 --> 00:07:13 And so I moved down to Utah with him, just like on a whim, very abruptly with
00:07:13 --> 00:07:15 a backpack full of clothes.
00:07:15 --> 00:07:17 Decided that I lived in Utah now.
00:07:20 --> 00:07:28 Yeah, it was just really strange. We ended up really liking each other and I
00:07:28 --> 00:07:30 should say just falling in love with each other. But we're teenagers,
00:07:30 --> 00:07:34 so we're more just like crazy little horny teenagers, you know?
00:07:34 --> 00:07:37 Yeah. What part of Utah was this and what year?
00:07:38 --> 00:07:43 Southern Utah and 2004. Were you there now?
00:07:44 --> 00:07:48 I mean, I was down there off and on for years.
00:07:49 --> 00:07:52 We had to go down there and visit cousins. So there's a high probability that
00:07:52 --> 00:07:54 she was down there the same time I was.
00:07:54 --> 00:07:57 You were probably at the market together. So for anybody who is just tuning
00:07:57 --> 00:08:04 in and did not hear our episode last week where we had our first conversation with Ange Johnson...
00:08:06 --> 00:08:11 There is so much crossover here with Ange and Natasha. We're certain that in
00:08:11 --> 00:08:16 some way, shape, or form, they must be related because they were both born into
00:08:16 --> 00:08:19 the same polygamy cult, the FLDS.
00:08:20 --> 00:08:25 And Ange's marriage was arranged by Natasha's grandfather. So there's just so
00:08:25 --> 00:08:28 much swirling around. You just have to listen to the previous episode.
00:08:28 --> 00:08:32 You do. You do. That's all we're saying. Listen to it right now and expecting
00:08:32 --> 00:08:34 to keep up. Yes. No, no, no.
00:08:34 --> 00:08:38 So I'm just trying to give a little context here in case someone's popping in,
00:08:38 --> 00:08:43 that they were both in the same polygamy cult when they were young.
00:08:43 --> 00:08:51 And so, okay, now, Ange, you and Cade are out of it, and you're kind of reborn
00:08:51 --> 00:08:54 in a way together as a married couple.
00:08:54 --> 00:09:01 Yeah, completely different, though, because we just now were together because we wanted to be.
00:09:01 --> 00:09:07 But also still so young we didn't really know what we wanted and like i said
00:09:07 --> 00:09:11 horny little teenagers so we figured out how to have sex oh congratulations
00:09:11 --> 00:09:13 do you mind do you mind walking us.
00:09:16 --> 00:09:19 I'm gonna have to change our rate oh no our rating is explicit go ahead and
00:09:19 --> 00:09:25 say whatever so i am always so curious about how these first times go with two
00:09:25 --> 00:09:27 little play kids that don't know,
00:09:28 --> 00:09:31 About sex. Oh, it's so awkward. I have heard some stories.
00:09:32 --> 00:09:38 It's so awkward, okay? Well, one, we never really had a conversation about it,
00:09:38 --> 00:09:41 right? We never had really, like, talked about it or anything.
00:09:41 --> 00:09:46 And it was just more physical attraction versus us knowing how to talk about
00:09:46 --> 00:09:51 it or how to, like, initiate it or anything. And for me, it was like,
00:09:52 --> 00:09:55 okay, well, I guess that's what you do, you know?
00:09:56 --> 00:10:03 But for us we had to get really drunk okay and just let nature take its course,
00:10:04 --> 00:10:05 nature take its course no.
00:10:07 --> 00:10:10 Pop in a movie maybe get a book um,
00:10:12 --> 00:10:15 no but that was it we just one night we were like okay just having a bunch of
00:10:15 --> 00:10:18 drinks and decided we were gonna just do it that night and we had,
00:10:19 --> 00:10:24 yeah that was really awkward like you know because then what do you do and how
00:10:24 --> 00:10:30 do you even know what you're supposed to feel or like those are the things that I feel,
00:10:30 --> 00:10:36 so clueless I felt so clueless about was just like how does it even work and
00:10:36 --> 00:10:40 what is a woman supposed to feel and how does that even happen and you know for us,
00:10:41 --> 00:10:44 very quickly because we didn't know about birth control we got pregnant with
00:10:44 --> 00:10:50 our now 20 year old 20 almost oh my goodness oh surprise we very quickly got
00:10:50 --> 00:10:52 pregnant with our first child.
00:10:52 --> 00:10:56 And then we had to have some really serious conversations because when you're
00:10:56 --> 00:10:59 pregnant, you know, you have to grow up very quickly.
00:10:59 --> 00:11:05 And we had just barely got our lives. We just barely became teenagers.
00:11:05 --> 00:11:08 You know, we are just barely entered this whole world of freedom.
00:11:08 --> 00:11:12 And now we were pregnant and we had to have a conversation of,
00:11:12 --> 00:11:13 do we want to remain pregnant?
00:11:14 --> 00:11:18 And oh my gosh, we can have that conversation because we're not in this religion.
00:11:18 --> 00:11:20 And that is a possibility.
00:11:21 --> 00:11:26 But then, of course, the terror for me was, oh, I will for sure go to hell and
00:11:26 --> 00:11:30 there will be no coming back from that one.
00:11:31 --> 00:11:38 And ultimately, we decided not to do that, but we had a kid very quickly.
00:11:39 --> 00:11:43 So that's our 20, almost 21-year-old. Okay.
00:11:44 --> 00:11:49 But you have got more than your one 21-year-old. You have three children now.
00:11:50 --> 00:11:54 Yeah. Yeah. A few years after that, we decided, well, we didn't want him to
00:11:54 --> 00:11:56 be an only child. So we had another one.
00:11:58 --> 00:12:04 And then we were in the troughs of it. And so of school and all the things,
00:12:04 --> 00:12:08 I was in college and we were working and trying to buy a house and do all the things.
00:12:08 --> 00:12:14 We were like, well, we're maxed at two because we have no village and it's just us.
00:12:15 --> 00:12:19 And this is too hard. And two kids is enough.
00:12:20 --> 00:12:22 And so we were like, we're done. We're done though.
00:12:23 --> 00:12:29 And so we were done for a lot of years. And then after we got out of the fire
00:12:29 --> 00:12:33 of school and survival and realized that we loved our children and it was really
00:12:33 --> 00:12:36 fun to have kids, we were like, we really want another one.
00:12:36 --> 00:12:40 Oh, that's great. I love that for you. Then we have our little baby girl.
00:12:42 --> 00:12:47 Amazing. Amazing. So you're living together and you're now married.
00:12:47 --> 00:12:49 And I know that Kate is a pilot.
00:12:50 --> 00:12:54 Yes. Is he a helicopter pilot? Am I remembering that correctly? Yes, he is.
00:12:54 --> 00:13:00 Yeah. And you said in the previous episode that you are a pediatric nurse, right?
00:13:00 --> 00:13:03 Labor and delivery. Oh, labor and delivery. Right, right, right.
00:13:05 --> 00:13:11 So you've done all of this on your own and you've done all of this yet together.
00:13:11 --> 00:13:14 And so now are you still living in Utah?
00:13:15 --> 00:13:20 We actually live in the Pacific Northwest. Okay, okay. So,
00:13:21 --> 00:13:27 In Washington. Okay. At this point now, you mentioned a little bit in the previous
00:13:27 --> 00:13:33 episode about your contact, or I should say no contact, with your parents.
00:13:34 --> 00:13:39 I can, I mean, you said it earlier. I can say it again for this conversation
00:13:39 --> 00:13:42 that you, at the moment, are no contact with your mom and have very,
00:13:42 --> 00:13:45 very sporadic and limited contact with your dad.
00:13:45 --> 00:13:50 Yeah, that's correct. Yeah. Okay. How about anybody else? Yeah. Siblings.
00:13:51 --> 00:13:54 I'm actually pretty close with most of my siblings.
00:13:55 --> 00:14:02 Six of them came up for the weekend for my birthday. Oh, that's great.
00:14:02 --> 00:14:05 All of my siblings are out of the religion.
00:14:06 --> 00:14:11 One of my siblings passed away when he was 16 in a logging accident. Oh, so sorry.
00:14:14 --> 00:14:17 I have four living brothers, and I'm really close with all four of them.
00:14:17 --> 00:14:21 And then I have a few sisters that I'm really close with.
00:14:21 --> 00:14:26 One of my older sisters, she was in with Warren when the split happened,
00:14:26 --> 00:14:28 then she stayed in Warren's church.
00:14:29 --> 00:14:34 And so we lost contact with her for a lot of years. And then she didn't leave
00:14:34 --> 00:14:37 Warren's cult until, like, she's
00:14:37 --> 00:14:40 the one who left the least amount of time ago, if that makes any sense.
00:14:40 --> 00:14:44 She's the friend. Most recently. Okay. Right. And when you say Warren,
00:14:44 --> 00:14:51 again, for context, we're talking about Natasha's uncle, Warren Jeffs, who was the prophet,
00:14:52 --> 00:14:58 for the FLDS until he was incarcerated for having sex with underage girls.
00:14:58 --> 00:15:02 And I believe he had 65 wives at the time. Something like that.
00:15:03 --> 00:15:06 Something insane like that. Yeah.
00:15:06 --> 00:15:13 So I would just like to say on behalf of all the listeners, we are all so very happy,
00:15:14 --> 00:15:22 that you both are out of all of that madness and have husbands who adore you and children,
00:15:22 --> 00:15:25 who adore you and lives that you have.
00:15:27 --> 00:15:31 That you can create on your own. I know so intimately what you both have been
00:15:31 --> 00:15:35 through, and I know anybody hearing any of this is so foreign to anybody else,
00:15:35 --> 00:15:41 and yet you two are just having this little bonding sesh because you know what each other,
00:15:42 --> 00:15:45 went through, and I'm just so grateful that you both got out because I know
00:15:45 --> 00:15:46 that it's alive and well.
00:15:46 --> 00:15:53 The FLDS is alive and well, and people still worship Natasha's Uncle Warren,
00:15:53 --> 00:16:00 in prison in spite of the fact that he was convicted on multiple life sentences and was one of America's,
00:16:01 --> 00:16:04 most wanted, FBI's most wanted criminals.
00:16:04 --> 00:16:08 So, happy you're out. Thank you.
00:16:10 --> 00:16:14 Yeah, so crazy. Cade's family is all still follows Warren.
00:16:15 --> 00:16:19 Really? He has a couple siblings that are out that we have contact with,
00:16:19 --> 00:16:24 but his mom, very much so, is in it.
00:16:25 --> 00:16:29 Yeah, we got random text and you know how you don't ever get contact or get
00:16:29 --> 00:16:31 contacted from them unless something's wrong.
00:16:31 --> 00:16:35 But one of his brothers was in the hospital having open heart surgery and he
00:16:35 --> 00:16:39 was like, I'm like having this surgery and you guys could, I would sure love
00:16:39 --> 00:16:42 it if you would bring your kids and come see me.
00:16:43 --> 00:16:47 And me and Cade, like we went back and forth for a little bit trying to decide
00:16:47 --> 00:16:50 if we were going to like drop everything and go see them because we've done
00:16:50 --> 00:16:55 that, you know, here or there. It's like this, well, they're going to let us see them, you know.
00:16:56 --> 00:17:00 And finally, Cade was like, do you still worship more?
00:17:00 --> 00:17:04 Hey, it's Lisa Sugarman, co-host of The Survivors and founder of The Help Hub.
00:17:05 --> 00:17:09 If you're listening right now and you're not okay, if you're feeling overwhelmed,
00:17:09 --> 00:17:13 stuck, or like you're carrying more than you can handle, please know you don't
00:17:13 --> 00:17:14 have to go through it alone.
00:17:15 --> 00:17:22 You can call or text 988 or chat online at 988lifeline.org to connect with trained
00:17:22 --> 00:17:25 counselors like me who are there to listen and support you in the moment.
00:17:26 --> 00:17:30 Thank you. Reaching out is a brave first step and you owe it to yourself because
00:17:30 --> 00:17:36 your life matters, your story matters, and help is always just three numbers away.
00:17:39 --> 00:17:43 Well, it's important that you have the right to know. And she's like,
00:17:43 --> 00:17:48 well, I don't worship anybody but God and this whole thing, but I still write
00:17:48 --> 00:17:51 letters to Uncle Warren every week. And Cade was like, well,
00:17:51 --> 00:17:53 that's great. I wish you the best.
00:17:54 --> 00:17:57 Well, yeah. And I'm happy for him that you, yeah.
00:17:58 --> 00:18:02 Gotta protect your peace. You have to protect your peace.
00:18:02 --> 00:18:06 The FLDS is still alive and well. And that, I think, is my drive is like,
00:18:06 --> 00:18:08 why is this still happening?
00:18:08 --> 00:18:14 Why are we still, why is this still going on? Why are girls still getting arranged
00:18:14 --> 00:18:19 in marriage? Why is children getting arranged in marriage? Like, this is bananas.
00:18:20 --> 00:18:25 And yet, I just wish there was something we could do to stop it. Well, you're doing it.
00:18:25 --> 00:18:28 You're doing it, Ange. You're both doing it. I mean, I mentioned in the last
00:18:28 --> 00:18:31 episode, I don't think I've mentioned it so far in this episode,
00:18:31 --> 00:18:37 that there was a big feature on you and Cade in People Magazine just a little over a year ago.
00:18:38 --> 00:18:42 And that's, you know, that was in response to a video that you had posted because
00:18:42 --> 00:18:46 you started feeling comfortable sharing your story, feeling like it was necessary
00:18:46 --> 00:18:51 to share your story. And it went, it went crazy viral. What did you say? 40 million views?
00:18:51 --> 00:18:57 It's got a lot. Yeah, it's a lot. So you were kind of thrust into the spotlight
00:18:57 --> 00:19:02 and a lot of people would have just turned right back around and run the other way.
00:19:02 --> 00:19:08 And you didn't. You've embraced that. And you, you've said it a little bit in our previous episode.
00:19:08 --> 00:19:13 So that you felt called to kind of expose things and, and that's what you're doing.
00:19:13 --> 00:19:18 And so maybe this is a good point to kind of tell us what, what,
00:19:18 --> 00:19:22 what you're doing now, because you've got a fairly big social media presence.
00:19:22 --> 00:19:23 You're, you're out there.
00:19:24 --> 00:19:32 Sharing it all? Well, it's kind of crazy because, yeah, like I said.
00:19:33 --> 00:19:38 I think what my goal to do with all of it is I want people to feel less alone
00:19:38 --> 00:19:42 in the healing journey because I did feel so alone.
00:19:43 --> 00:19:47 And I felt like I didn't have resources and I didn't know who I could talk to
00:19:47 --> 00:19:53 besides my therapist, but I didn't have people that I could relate to that knew what it felt like.
00:19:53 --> 00:19:57 There was a lot of people around me going through the fire. Like a lot of my
00:19:57 --> 00:20:02 friends had left or like we're doing it, but they were all figuring life out at the same time.
00:20:02 --> 00:20:10 And I think my goal is like, I want to share the good with it, share the hard with it.
00:20:10 --> 00:20:16 And I believe they have to coexist because you can't have, you can't have the good without the bad.
00:20:16 --> 00:20:17 And you can't have, they, they
00:20:17 --> 00:20:21 have to be together because just like you said in the earlier episode,
00:20:22 --> 00:20:26 you can either laugh about it or you can drown in the heart of it and.
00:20:27 --> 00:20:32 It is hard and it can be hard and also we can learn and grow from it
00:20:33 --> 00:20:38 and move through it and it still is part of our lives it doesn't disappear because
00:20:38 --> 00:20:41 we don't want to talk about it or because we don't want to name names or we
00:20:41 --> 00:20:43 don't want to say what actually happened,
00:20:43 --> 00:20:48 and that is hard it's hard for me to to say what happened and,
00:20:49 --> 00:20:53 say it with my whole chest, because there's a part of me that just wants to
00:20:53 --> 00:20:57 run and hide and deny that that actually happened and say, oh,
00:20:57 --> 00:20:59 well, it wasn't that big of a deal.
00:20:59 --> 00:21:03 And a lot of people that I know, and I'm sure you guys have met them too,
00:21:04 --> 00:21:09 downplay all of that. They downplay it because it's easier to downplay it than
00:21:09 --> 00:21:12 it is to admit that the people that were supposed to protect you didn't.
00:21:12 --> 00:21:17 And so they want to downplay it. And I'm like, there has to be a way for me
00:21:17 --> 00:21:21 to talk about it openly and.
00:21:22 --> 00:21:28 Let there still be good that can come from it and let people feel like they have a place to be in it.
00:21:28 --> 00:21:31 Well, look at your marriage, your marriage and your three kids.
00:21:31 --> 00:21:36 You fell in love with your husband who you had never met, really, except,
00:21:38 --> 00:21:42 when you were told that you were going out for ice cream with him and you were
00:21:42 --> 00:21:44 marrying him. You were told.
00:21:45 --> 00:21:51 And the most unlikely person became your person.
00:21:51 --> 00:21:54 And I just, I think that's such a beautiful,
00:21:55 --> 00:21:58 I don't want to say ending because your story is, you're right in the middle of it and,
00:21:59 --> 00:22:06 you're in the best parts right now with your family and you're fully out of
00:22:06 --> 00:22:11 the church and you're living your own lives and you both have careers and you're right.
00:22:11 --> 00:22:18 It is a big combination of the good and the bad, but you're out here doing what
00:22:18 --> 00:22:21 Natasha's doing, doing what we try so hard to do on this podcast, which is,
00:22:22 --> 00:22:26 to share the stories that people can find points of connection in and,
00:22:26 --> 00:22:31 like you said, feel less alone and know where to get help and see how other
00:22:31 --> 00:22:35 people have navigated what you're afraid to navigate.
00:22:35 --> 00:22:41 So I give both of you an incredible, incredible amount of credit for being here
00:22:41 --> 00:22:46 and being so transparent for the sake of not just yourselves and your own healing,
00:22:46 --> 00:22:48 because I know that's a big part of it. It's cathartic, I know.
00:22:49 --> 00:22:52 But for the benefit of other people, I mean, talk about being of service.
00:22:52 --> 00:22:56 That is being of service, in my own opinion. And I am not a cult leader.
00:22:58 --> 00:22:59 Just for the record.
00:23:01 --> 00:23:04 Well, and it's interesting that you say for the help of others,
00:23:04 --> 00:23:08 because I know that a lot, the mentality for people that are still practicing
00:23:08 --> 00:23:12 polygamy and still a believer of whatever version of it that they believe in.
00:23:13 --> 00:23:17 A lot of them still think that people like Ange and I do this for attention.
00:23:19 --> 00:23:26 And I would rather have attention for any other reason than to be the niece of Warren Jeffs.
00:23:26 --> 00:23:30 You know what I mean? Or I'm sure Ange to be a child. I would rather,
00:23:30 --> 00:23:33 you know what I mean, be known for any other thing on this earth.
00:23:34 --> 00:23:38 Or, you know, I don't want to be known as the girl that has five brothers that died by suicide.
00:23:38 --> 00:23:41 You know what I mean? I just, there's so many other things.
00:23:41 --> 00:23:49 But when you get the messages, I've gotten messages from other girls that are formerly FLDS,
00:23:50 --> 00:23:57 and she said, thank you so much for giving us all a voice because we aren't
00:23:57 --> 00:24:03 there yet, or I don't know if we'll ever have the courage to share our stories.
00:24:03 --> 00:24:08 So I just want you to know that you are giving so many of us down here,
00:24:08 --> 00:24:12 she still lives in Colorado City, you're giving us a voice.
00:24:12 --> 00:24:15 So that's why I do it. It's powerful.
00:24:17 --> 00:24:22 And I think it is, it's wild. The people that I wouldn't expect that from it's
00:24:22 --> 00:24:27 come from, and then the people that I would expect to support it have gaslit
00:24:27 --> 00:24:30 or doubted or said I'm doing it for wrong reasons.
00:24:30 --> 00:24:33 And it is like, it's complicated.
00:24:33 --> 00:24:38 You have to be sturdy in who you are and you have to be okay with let them,
00:24:38 --> 00:24:40 letting them be whatever they are.
00:24:41 --> 00:24:46 We talk a lot about our friend mel robbins on this podcast and you just have
00:24:46 --> 00:24:50 to let them because it's not their story it's your story
00:24:50 --> 00:24:54 no and you get to choose what you do with it and if it causes discomfort for
00:24:54 --> 00:24:57 other people well maybe they need to take a good long hard look at where that
00:24:57 --> 00:24:59 discomfort's coming from because it's not coming from you,
00:25:00 --> 00:25:05 and i'm happy for you ang that you have you know a handful of your siblings
00:25:05 --> 00:25:09 that support you that it makes a big difference because i don't have that ever
00:25:09 --> 00:25:15 since my pod this podcast aired as as me as co-host i have not spoken to any of my family,
00:25:16 --> 00:25:22 yeah i get nervous about it because there's one of my siblings who is very upset
00:25:22 --> 00:25:25 that i'm no contact with my mom and so she,
00:25:26 --> 00:25:31 she does let me have it here and there and i've just had to be like, it's okay.
00:25:32 --> 00:25:39 It's okay. I talk myself through it. But I think for me, my biggest point and
00:25:39 --> 00:25:43 biggest part of my healing has been seeing my kids grow up.
00:25:44 --> 00:25:49 And it's also been like really hard because I just look at them and I'm like,
00:25:49 --> 00:25:51 it's not that hard to love your kids.
00:25:52 --> 00:25:57 It's not that hard to be a good parent. It's not that hard. And to be even a
00:25:57 --> 00:25:59 mediocre, I'm not saying I have it all figured out, but...
00:26:00 --> 00:26:06 To provide them safety and security. And it makes me go, wow,
00:26:06 --> 00:26:09 it's just like a basic human need, you know?
00:26:10 --> 00:26:13 Yeah. But watching you makes me heal.
00:26:14 --> 00:26:18 Well, I was going to ask you, I only have two questions as we kind of start
00:26:18 --> 00:26:20 to wrap up this conversation.
00:26:21 --> 00:26:24 So we've talked about healing. You talked about that in the very beginning of
00:26:24 --> 00:26:30 the last episode where you shared the beginning of your story that you're still actively healing.
00:26:30 --> 00:26:35 What does that look like for you? And are there pieces of maybe that younger
00:26:35 --> 00:26:40 version of Ange that is still healing within all of this? What does it look like now?
00:26:41 --> 00:26:44 I feel like that I will probably be healing for the rest of my life.
00:26:45 --> 00:26:50 I don't think it's a destination that I'm going to arrive at and be like, I made it, I'm healed.
00:26:51 --> 00:26:57 That is one of my more frustrating things that I get frustrated about is like,
00:26:57 --> 00:27:01 it's been long enough. Why am I not healed? Why is this so bothering me?
00:27:01 --> 00:27:05 You know, but then I just look at it. It's part of who I am.
00:27:06 --> 00:27:12 Healing for me has looked a lot like a lot of outdoor therapy, a lot of nature.
00:27:12 --> 00:27:15 For years, I drank heavily.
00:27:15 --> 00:27:17 I've been sober for four years now almost.
00:27:18 --> 00:27:23 I used alcohol to numb a lot of those feelings for many years.
00:27:23 --> 00:27:29 And I have been sober now and I feel like my true healing began.
00:27:29 --> 00:27:35 After I got sober and I stopped drinking and I started to hit it all head on,
00:27:35 --> 00:27:39 and stop running from it and say what it was.
00:27:39 --> 00:27:44 But it also came with a lot of pissing people off because saying what.
00:27:45 --> 00:27:50 And it's a lot of people are hurt by that, by me saying it was what it was.
00:27:50 --> 00:27:55 And so healing for me has been a lot of like mountain biking and running and
00:27:55 --> 00:28:00 kayaking and hiking and all of the things and spending time with my kids and
00:28:00 --> 00:28:02 watching my kids thrive in,
00:28:03 --> 00:28:08 so many different ways that I never got and I never had the opportunity to.
00:28:08 --> 00:28:15 And just being able to provide that security for them and talking to them about it.
00:28:15 --> 00:28:21 And like, not in a way of like, well, you have all this and I never had it.
00:28:21 --> 00:28:26 It's in a way of, I get to provide you this and I get to, I get to see you go through this.
00:28:26 --> 00:28:30 And this is so healing for me to make sure you can go to college.
00:28:30 --> 00:28:33 I mean, my kid was in Drum Corps International this year, you guys,
00:28:33 --> 00:28:36 like he marched in world finals. It's incredible.
00:28:37 --> 00:28:40 I never, that existed when I was a kid.
00:28:40 --> 00:28:45 I didn't know it existed a couple years ago, but just the opportunities that
00:28:45 --> 00:28:51 they've been able to get because we were not scared to step out and do it is.
00:28:52 --> 00:28:55 I shouldn't say we weren't scared. We were scared as shit, but we did it anyway.
00:28:55 --> 00:28:58 Right, right. That's, yeah, but yeah, it's like do the hard thing.
00:28:59 --> 00:29:04 Well, courage is not the lack of fear. It is acting in spite of it.
00:29:05 --> 00:29:08 That is the definition of courage. That's right. That's right.
00:29:08 --> 00:29:13 That's right. incredibly courageous to step out and break out of the norm of
00:29:13 --> 00:29:18 what we were raised with because we were not given any proper social skills,
00:29:18 --> 00:29:25 to handle the situations and that we were thrust into as we left this dark place.
00:29:26 --> 00:29:29 And we had to figure a lot of shit out on our own.
00:29:29 --> 00:29:33 I have to ask you, do you ever get frustrated with your kids?
00:29:34 --> 00:29:37 And that, you know, because we were parentified And it's like,
00:29:37 --> 00:29:40 you remember what you were doing at their age?
00:29:41 --> 00:29:46 And you're like, I was doing this, this, this, and this at this age.
00:29:47 --> 00:29:50 Why can't you do it? And then it's like you have to go freaking reparent yourself
00:29:50 --> 00:29:54 and be like, oh, wait a minute. I'm creating something different for my kid.
00:29:55 --> 00:29:58 They shouldn't know how to do that. And it's like this freaking battle you have
00:29:58 --> 00:30:01 going on in your head. Do you ever experience that?
00:30:02 --> 00:30:06 All the time. Me and Kate talk about it a lot. We talk about it a lot.
00:30:06 --> 00:30:10 And he's like, I think that means we're winning because they don't have to worry about that.
00:30:12 --> 00:30:15 I think it means they're winning that they're just happy doing that and that
00:30:15 --> 00:30:19 they don't feel like they need to go get 10 jobs and work themselves to death
00:30:19 --> 00:30:22 and take care of the whole family and do all the things he's like,
00:30:22 --> 00:30:28 I I think that means we're winning and I do I I agree it is wild because I look
00:30:28 --> 00:30:36 at my 16 year old and I'm like holy shit I was married and halfway down You are like,
00:30:37 --> 00:30:39 living your best life, living your best life.
00:30:39 --> 00:30:43 You know what? You know what? You both did. And I think this is this is probably
00:30:43 --> 00:30:46 the best place to end this conversation on.
00:30:47 --> 00:30:53 You not only are you both survivors, you are both surviving and you broke the cycle.
00:30:53 --> 00:31:00 You both broke the cycle. And now, between you, there are five kids in this
00:31:00 --> 00:31:04 world who will be free, who will be free to experience the world,
00:31:05 --> 00:31:11 for all the goodness that this world has because their moms and dads were brave
00:31:11 --> 00:31:14 enough to stand up against everything.
00:31:16 --> 00:31:17 That was forced on them.
00:31:17 --> 00:31:22 And now you've given them a different life. And I think that is absolutely remarkable.
00:31:22 --> 00:31:25 And I'm not just talking to you, Ange. I'm talking to Nash. I'm talking to you, too.
00:31:26 --> 00:31:30 And I just am so grateful that all of you,
00:31:31 --> 00:31:36 had the strength to make that decision for yourself and to break away and to
00:31:36 --> 00:31:40 crush that cycle and pave your own way.
00:31:40 --> 00:31:47 So I'm certain that everybody listening to this is as happy for all of you,
00:31:47 --> 00:31:51 for both of you as I am. So Ange, thank you.
00:31:51 --> 00:31:55 Thank you for being here and for trusting us with your story.
00:31:55 --> 00:31:59 And I think Cade is amazing. I don't even need to meet him. I know enough to
00:31:59 --> 00:32:05 know that he's fantastic because you've proven that. So we're just grateful.
00:32:05 --> 00:32:09 I've seen him on your socials, honey. I can see why you fell in love with him. He's adorable.
00:32:10 --> 00:32:15 He's adorable. I love him so much. And he flies helicopters too,
00:32:15 --> 00:32:18 which is just so cool. Have you seen his muscles? Yeah, no, I'm going to go
00:32:18 --> 00:32:20 back to your Instagram page as soon as we get off.
00:32:21 --> 00:32:23 Trust me, I'm on my way.
00:32:26 --> 00:32:32 And thank you for being here. And friends, hopefully you've stuck in this long.
00:32:33 --> 00:32:37 If you want to find out more about Ange, if you want to connect with her,
00:32:37 --> 00:32:43 we will have all of her handles in our show notes. She will provide us with
00:32:43 --> 00:32:47 all that info so you can get in touch with her and keep track of her and support her.
00:32:48 --> 00:32:54 And we will be back. We'll be back next week with another conversation about,
00:32:54 --> 00:32:55 surviving the hard things.
00:32:56 --> 00:32:57 In the meantime, keep surviving.
00:32:58 --> 00:33:02 Thanks so much for listening and for being part of the Survivors community.
00:33:03 --> 00:33:06 No matter where you are in your story, you're not alone, and you're definitely
00:33:06 --> 00:33:10 not broken. Healing takes time, and it looks different for everyone.
00:33:11 --> 00:33:15 The fact that you're still here and still trying means you're already doing the hard work.
00:33:16 --> 00:33:20 If something in today's conversation resonated with you, please share it with
00:33:20 --> 00:33:21 someone who might need to hear it too.
00:33:22 --> 00:33:26 That's how we keep these conversations going and remind each other that there's always hope.
00:33:27 --> 00:33:30 And if you or someone you know is struggling, please remember,
00:33:30 --> 00:33:31 help is always out there.
00:33:31 --> 00:33:36 You can call or text 988 anytime to reach a trained crisis counselor like me.
00:33:36 --> 00:33:40 And for more mental health resources, tools, treatment options,
00:33:40 --> 00:33:44 and content to support your mental health, visit thehelphub.co.
00:33:44 --> 00:33:47 We're so grateful you're part of the Survivors family, and we'll be back next
00:33:47 --> 00:33:51 week with another honest conversation about life after the hardest things.
00:33:52 --> 00:33:56 Until then, take care of yourself and your people, and keep surviving.