*WARNING: This podcast mentions suicide, sexual abuse & trauma and may be triggering.
Episode Summary
In this conversation, Lisa and Natasha dive into the complexities of women's mental health, particularly focusing on the often-overlooked issues of suicide rates among women, the invisible emotional labor of caregiving, and the societal pressures that contribute to burnout and anxiety.
They talk in depth about the importance of recognizing and addressing these challenges, the need for self-compassion, and the value of community support in navigating the struggles of motherhood and mental wellness.
Episode Sponsored by The HelpHUB™
Struggling with your mental health? Feeling lost, overwhelmed, or just alone? Well, you're not. Welcome to The HelpHUB™—your online destination for mental health resources, treatment options, content, and tools to help meet you exactly where you are in the moment. Visit TheHelpHUB.co to get started.
Takeaways
- Women die by suicide at a lower rate than men but attempt it more often.
- Invisible emotional labor is a significant burden for women.
- Mothers often feel burnt out and overwhelmed by caregiving responsibilities.
- Comparison culture exacerbates feelings of inadequacy among mothers.
- High functioning anxiety can be invisible but deeply impactful.
- Women often internalize the belief that they must manage everything.
- Self-compassion is crucial for mental health and well-being.
- Decentralizing responsibilities in relationships can alleviate pressure.
- Community support is essential for mental wellness.
- Recognizing and naming our struggles is the first step towards healing.
Chapters
00:00 Understanding Women's Mental Health and Suicide Rates 06:35 The Burden of Perfection and Comparison Culture 12:19 High Functioning Anxiety and Its Consequences 18:21 Decentralizing Responsibilities in Relationships 25:08 Embracing Change and Self-Compassion
Mental Health Resources
- If you or someone you know is struggling, please call 988 for help.
- The Survivors Podcast Website – https://thesurvivors.net/
- The HelpHUB™ – Mental health resources, tools, and support networks – https://www.thehelphub.co/
- National Domestic Violence Hotline – Call 1-800-799-SAFE (7223)
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See you next week! In the meantime, keep surviving.
00:00:00 --> 00:00:04 Hey friends, before we dive into this week's episode, just a heads up.
00:00:05 --> 00:00:09 Our podcast talks about suicide, sexual abuse, and other trauma,
00:00:09 --> 00:00:13 and some of what you hear may be triggering. So please listen with care.
00:00:13 --> 00:00:18 This is The Survivors, real stories, raw conversations, and the truth about
00:00:18 --> 00:00:21 what it means to keep going after the hardest things.
00:00:21 --> 00:00:24 We're so glad you're here. Let's keep surviving together.
00:00:27 --> 00:00:31 So let me ask you a question. because this has been on my mind for a little while.
00:00:31 --> 00:00:39 How many women do you think die by suicide each year?
00:00:39 --> 00:00:43 Do you have any guess? I don't have any idea.
00:00:43 --> 00:00:48 I know that the suicide rate for men is higher, but I don't know what the actual numbers are.
00:00:49 --> 00:00:57 So just in this country, in the U.S., six women out of every 100 die by suicide every year.
00:00:58 --> 00:01:05 And women actually attempt suicide at a much higher rate than men.
00:01:06 --> 00:01:16 But the interesting thing is men die by suicide about four times more often than women. So.
00:01:17 --> 00:01:22 It just feels like we need to have a conversation about women and suicide.
00:01:22 --> 00:01:28 And as someone who has survived plenty of your own attempts,
00:01:28 --> 00:01:33 I didn't feel like there was anyone in the world more qualified to have this
00:01:33 --> 00:01:39 conversation than you, because you've been in that place.
00:01:39 --> 00:01:41 And you're like me.
00:01:41 --> 00:01:47 You're a woman who is a mother, who is a wife, who is working,
00:01:47 --> 00:01:49 who is running a household.
00:01:50 --> 00:01:53 And we carry a lot.
00:01:53 --> 00:01:57 And the majority of that, I think, is invisible.
00:01:57 --> 00:02:05 I know sometimes that's how I feel, even though I know that what I do in my
00:02:05 --> 00:02:09 own family is very much acknowledged by my husband, by Dave, and by my kids.
00:02:10 --> 00:02:15 But there's a lot even that isn't. And it weighs on you. Do you feel that?
00:02:16 --> 00:02:22 Oh, 100%. And the invisible emotional labor that goes on behind the scenes of
00:02:22 --> 00:02:28 running a household is just something that I don't think men have any clue about.
00:02:29 --> 00:02:32 A lot of them don't. I mean, I think that there are a lot of stay-at-home dads
00:02:32 --> 00:02:41 out there in the world who are navigating the same day-to-day challenges that we do who are home.
00:02:42 --> 00:02:48 I mean, I don't think anybody can argue the fact that more women are active
00:02:48 --> 00:02:50 caregivers than men in this world.
00:02:50 --> 00:02:57 And certainly, historically speaking, the workforce was predominantly men back in the early days.
00:02:57 --> 00:03:04 And obviously now women have entered the workforce and are definitely,
00:03:05 --> 00:03:11 I wouldn't say equal to the male workforce in many, many ways.
00:03:11 --> 00:03:12 But we're sure out there.
00:03:13 --> 00:03:18 We're out there and we're doing not only jobs we were hired for,
00:03:18 --> 00:03:22 but we're also doing full-time jobs every day when we get home after work,
00:03:23 --> 00:03:24 after our full-time jobs.
00:03:25 --> 00:03:31 And that's a lot. And we're also managing everybody else's needs.
00:03:31 --> 00:03:38 So there's no wonder that mothers everywhere are burnt out, that mothers are
00:03:38 --> 00:03:45 frazzled and they're emotionally fried. And.
00:03:46 --> 00:03:49 That they're not mentally well because of that,
00:03:49 --> 00:03:54 that they're depressed or feeling isolated or feeling that they just,
00:03:54 --> 00:04:01 that they can't compete with all the other moms around them who are, you know,
00:04:01 --> 00:04:05 lining up to showcase their perfect little lives on social media. It's really hard.
00:04:05 --> 00:04:10 It's really, really hard. Well, I mean, we're tracking everything,
00:04:10 --> 00:04:14 you know, everybody's needs, the birthdays, the doctor's appointments,
00:04:14 --> 00:04:18 moods, meal planning, scheduling appointments. I mean.
00:04:21 --> 00:04:26 Who do, you know, they talk about the primary caregiver, who's generally the
00:04:26 --> 00:04:27 primary caregiver. It's the mother.
00:04:28 --> 00:04:31 So who do the children run to when they need anything? anything
00:04:31 --> 00:04:34 but it's when i
00:04:34 --> 00:04:38 talk about the invisible labor it's also something
00:04:38 --> 00:04:41 as simple as filling up the because
00:04:41 --> 00:04:48 we use soap foaming hand soap dispensers refillable glass ones this making sure
00:04:48 --> 00:04:53 those are refilled something as small as that but that's lives up here in our
00:04:53 --> 00:05:00 brains it that is on our tally list that is on our task list having to keep a mental checklist of,
00:05:00 --> 00:05:03 almost every single thing that's in the household and where we're at,
00:05:03 --> 00:05:06 when are we going to need a new one, all the things.
00:05:06 --> 00:05:10 It lives up here and is going on in our brains all the time.
00:05:11 --> 00:05:15 And, you know, again, this is the primary caregiver in the home,
00:05:15 --> 00:05:19 whether that's male or female, but vast majority are women.
00:05:19 --> 00:05:24 And they're keeping track of who to send the birthday cards to and shopping
00:05:24 --> 00:05:32 for holiday gifts and everyone needs new shoes and how does the fridge get filled?
00:05:32 --> 00:05:33 How does the food get cooked?
00:05:33 --> 00:05:37 I mean, how does everyone get picked up and dropped off and tucked in and bathed?
00:05:38 --> 00:05:44 And it's a cycle that feels like it's endless. And I think it just...
00:05:45 --> 00:05:50 Puts such a heavy weight. Look, it's hard to live life, period.
00:05:50 --> 00:05:56 Hard stop. It's hard to live life. And when you're living life as a caregiver
00:05:56 --> 00:05:59 for somebody else, and in our cases,
00:06:00 --> 00:06:06 multiple somebody else's, it adds an incredible amount of stress and pressure
00:06:06 --> 00:06:11 to an already stressful and pressure life.
00:06:13 --> 00:06:19 And it gets to the point where, is it any great surprise to any woman who might
00:06:19 --> 00:06:24 be listening to this conversation that we put ourselves dead last all the time
00:06:24 --> 00:06:26 so we don't think about what we need?
00:06:26 --> 00:06:29 We certainly aren't thinking about our mental health on an active day-to-day
00:06:29 --> 00:06:31 basis, probably in the ways that we should.
00:06:32 --> 00:06:38 And as a result of that, moms everywhere, women everywhere, are burning the
00:06:38 --> 00:06:44 hell out because we're not taking our own needs into consideration.
00:06:44 --> 00:06:49 We're just overwhelmed. Well, and here's another topic that we can talk about
00:06:49 --> 00:06:56 briefly is you've heard of a married single woman. Have you heard that term before? Oh, sure.
00:06:56 --> 00:07:01 Where the mother, so where we're at in our economy or whatever else,
00:07:02 --> 00:07:03 both parents are now working.
00:07:04 --> 00:07:09 Mm-hmm. So, the mother is now going out, doing her job, but then she's still
00:07:09 --> 00:07:12 expected to come home and do all the things of running a household.
00:07:13 --> 00:07:17 So, she is literally never, ever stopping. And...
00:07:18 --> 00:07:23 And there's no, there is no relief. And coming from somebody who was a full-time
00:07:23 --> 00:07:27 mom for the majority of the last 14 years, there were bits of time,
00:07:27 --> 00:07:30 you know, where six months here, eight months there, where I did have a job.
00:07:30 --> 00:07:39 And in those times where I have been working, I am so exhausted on so many levels.
00:07:39 --> 00:07:46 And I don't feel like I can be an adequate mother because there's just not enough time in the day.
00:07:46 --> 00:07:49 And the men you know they think
00:07:49 --> 00:07:52 that just going to work each day that's their
00:07:52 --> 00:07:55 job not realizing that there's a whole other set
00:07:55 --> 00:07:59 of responsibilities that comes home you know that they need to come home to
00:07:59 --> 00:08:04 so women are doing their full-time jobs coming home doing all the things when
00:08:04 --> 00:08:09 being a full-time you know being a mother is a full-time above and beyond actually
00:08:09 --> 00:08:14 full-time job than anything else because there's no clocking out.
00:08:14 --> 00:08:17 No, that's the key right there. There's no clocking out.
00:08:17 --> 00:08:21 So there's no ability to recharge, especially when you're a young mom and you
00:08:21 --> 00:08:25 have younger kids that demand your attention all the time and you're sleep deprived
00:08:25 --> 00:08:28 and you haven't showered in days.
00:08:28 --> 00:08:32 And it's no wonder people's mental health are impacted.
00:08:32 --> 00:08:35 It's hard. It's really, really hard. I mean.
00:08:36 --> 00:08:41 You know, you think a mother who maybe is caring for twins or multiple children,
00:08:41 --> 00:08:46 you know, two, three kids in a house and you're shuttling and you're a chauffeur
00:08:46 --> 00:08:49 and you're a cook and you're a personal shopper.
00:08:49 --> 00:08:54 And all of a sudden you realize you haven't showered in two days or three days.
00:08:54 --> 00:08:57 How do you think that mother, if they don't have time to shower,
00:08:57 --> 00:09:01 if they don't have time to wash their hair or tie their shoes,
00:09:01 --> 00:09:02 how are they going to get to the
00:09:02 --> 00:09:06 therapist's office? How are they going to factor that in for themselves?
00:09:06 --> 00:09:10 How are they going to factor an opportunity to catch up on lost sleep or to
00:09:10 --> 00:09:11 make sure they eat the meal.
00:09:11 --> 00:09:17 It's really, really difficult. And this is not to say that that.
00:09:18 --> 00:09:25 All men are unwilling to be active participants in their families.
00:09:25 --> 00:09:29 I know my own husband, Dave, we have like a division of labor.
00:09:29 --> 00:09:35 Like he does as many things around this house as I do, always has.
00:09:35 --> 00:09:38 But the fact of the matter is, in our case, for instance,
00:09:39 --> 00:09:43 when he was working,
00:09:43 --> 00:09:48 traveling back when the kids were young and he was out of the country for,
00:09:48 --> 00:09:52 you know, a week at a time or three, four days, five days at a time,
00:09:52 --> 00:09:56 a couple of times a month, I was a single mom.
00:09:56 --> 00:09:59 I was a single mom with two young kids. And it wasn't because he didn't want
00:09:59 --> 00:10:02 to be there and it wasn't because he wasn't pitching in when he was.
00:10:02 --> 00:10:08 It was simply because his job required him to do things that kept him away from
00:10:08 --> 00:10:16 home and he would get off the red eye and take care of the kids or he would, you know, get home from,
00:10:16 --> 00:10:22 you know, another country and be totally jet lagged and make sure the dog was
00:10:22 --> 00:10:25 walked and the laundry was done and that I got a break.
00:10:25 --> 00:10:34 But, you know, I think that's probably the exception rather than the norm in most households.
00:10:34 --> 00:10:41 I think that certainly way back in the day with, you know, when our parents
00:10:41 --> 00:10:43 were young or our grandparents were young.
00:10:44 --> 00:10:51 You had mom was home and had her roles and responsibilities and dad was at work
00:10:51 --> 00:10:55 and there was a complete division of labor and there was no overlap.
00:10:55 --> 00:10:58 And I know that that's changed.
00:10:58 --> 00:11:01 I know a lot of that has changed to such a large degree.
00:11:01 --> 00:11:05 But I don't think that anybody can argue the fact that still,
00:11:05 --> 00:11:12 even to this day, so much falls on the shoulders of the mom of the household
00:11:12 --> 00:11:17 that it just creates this layer of violence.
00:11:17 --> 00:11:25 Stress and overwhelm that translates to, in a lot of cases, depression and anxiety
00:11:25 --> 00:11:29 and stress that can't be resolved.
00:11:30 --> 00:11:35 I mean, a woman could be sitting on the couch and still working mentally.
00:11:36 --> 00:11:39 And that is the kind of exhaustion that we don't talk about,
00:11:39 --> 00:11:44 is she's trying to sit on the couch, and yet she feels guilty for sitting on
00:11:44 --> 00:11:46 the couch for five minutes.
00:11:46 --> 00:11:49 To that's a good point you know your brain is
00:11:49 --> 00:11:52 just you're what are you doing sitting down there's so much
00:11:52 --> 00:11:58 more you could be doing right now you know in in the the guilty part of trying
00:11:58 --> 00:12:04 to rest when you know you need to be resting and yet what's going on in our
00:12:04 --> 00:12:08 heads when we're our brain and our bodies are literally fighting with each other
00:12:08 --> 00:12:11 well that's high functioning distress is what that is.
00:12:11 --> 00:12:16 You're functioning at such a high level, all cylinders, all the time.
00:12:17 --> 00:12:23 And, you know, women show up, women who are like that, who are in those roles,
00:12:24 --> 00:12:28 who have those responsibilities, are, sure, they're getting things done,
00:12:28 --> 00:12:32 they're checking things off their list, but they're shells.
00:12:32 --> 00:12:37 They're shells and they're depleted and they're exhausted.
00:12:37 --> 00:12:42 You know, I mean, why do you think high-functioning, that struggle gets missed
00:12:42 --> 00:12:46 so often? Because it's invisible.
00:12:46 --> 00:12:50 People don't see it. People don't acknowledge it.
00:12:50 --> 00:12:56 And I think if people don't see a situation that looks chaotic,
00:12:56 --> 00:12:58 well, what's the problem?
00:12:58 --> 00:13:01 If things don't look chaotic, it doesn't mean, look, you could have the most
00:13:01 --> 00:13:07 organized household running like a well-oiled machine. And...
00:13:07 --> 00:13:14 And underneath all of that is a mother who is still stressed and burdened and
00:13:14 --> 00:13:19 frazzled because she has to keep it together all the time.
00:13:20 --> 00:13:24 And people, you know, there's almost it's almost like a curse to be able to
00:13:24 --> 00:13:26 to check off all your boxes and do all the things.
00:13:27 --> 00:13:30 Because when you do that, it doesn't look like there's chaos.
00:13:30 --> 00:13:33 And when it doesn't, you don't have anything to point to to say, hey, see, see that?
00:13:33 --> 00:13:38 See how overwhelmed I look? See how upside down my house is?
00:13:39 --> 00:13:41 See how I haven't even made dinner yet? It's nine o'clock.
00:13:41 --> 00:13:51 It's hard for the people who can actually keep it somewhat together enough to make it through the day.
00:13:51 --> 00:13:55 It's almost, if it doesn't look like a bomb blast, well, what's the problem?
00:13:56 --> 00:14:00 Exactly. And this actually goes back to what we had talked about before,
00:14:00 --> 00:14:06 where you had brought up suicide. and I have survived three actual attempts myself.
00:14:06 --> 00:14:13 And nobody knew what was going on because I got so good at keeping my shit together
00:14:13 --> 00:14:18 and hiding what was going on behind the scenes because I had my life together.
00:14:19 --> 00:14:25 I had been living on my home since I was 18, supporting myself, going, I was in college.
00:14:25 --> 00:14:31 Nobody had any idea because I just held it all together all the time.
00:14:31 --> 00:14:34 And the same goes for mothers.
00:14:35 --> 00:14:41 And you see the mothers that are, or I would, sorry, I'm kind of bouncing all
00:14:41 --> 00:14:43 over the place. I would see my sister.
00:14:44 --> 00:14:48 Get all this extra support because she was a chaotic mess.
00:14:49 --> 00:14:55 And yet I was going through just the same, maybe not just the same,
00:14:55 --> 00:14:59 but similar and would receive very little to no support whatsoever.
00:15:00 --> 00:15:06 And I see this too with mothers, the ones that are just a dumpster fire.
00:15:06 --> 00:15:09 Their house is a mess. They're extremely chaotic.
00:15:10 --> 00:15:16 They receive more support and sympathy than the mothers that are literally fighting
00:15:16 --> 00:15:21 a war within themselves to keep it all together because they appear to have
00:15:21 --> 00:15:23 it all together on the outside.
00:15:23 --> 00:15:29 Yeah, that's almost a bit of a curse, I think, in some ways. I know I felt that way.
00:15:31 --> 00:15:37 I'm the first one to acknowledge that I've always taken a lot of pride.
00:15:37 --> 00:15:43 I get this from my mom. I've taken a lot of pride in my little home and making
00:15:43 --> 00:15:50 sure that my kids always had what they needed and making sure that things kind of always had a place.
00:15:50 --> 00:15:55 And I've always functioned that way. And so when you walk in my house,
00:15:55 --> 00:15:59 it didn't look like it was upside down and on fire.
00:15:59 --> 00:16:06 And it gives the illusion, well, either you've just completely got it all together
00:16:06 --> 00:16:09 or you certainly don't need help.
00:16:09 --> 00:16:15 And it's unfortunate because it creates the wrong impression.
00:16:15 --> 00:16:19 Like we're all out there needing help and forget about the mothers, women in general.
00:16:20 --> 00:16:25 I think just women in relationships in general, in life in general,
00:16:25 --> 00:16:30 are tasked almost automatically with relationships.
00:16:30 --> 00:16:36 With certain activities, like, you know, maybe you don't have kids,
00:16:36 --> 00:16:39 maybe you're just in a relationship and you're the cruise director,
00:16:40 --> 00:16:42 you're creating the social calendar,
00:16:42 --> 00:16:47 you're keeping track of everybody's birthdays and holidays and special occasions.
00:16:47 --> 00:16:52 And it just seems like, I don't know from my own experience,
00:16:52 --> 00:16:55 that there's this typecasting that happens.
00:16:55 --> 00:17:05 And people don't outwardly see the impact of that on each of us when we feel
00:17:05 --> 00:17:09 like we have to handle it all on our own and we can't go to anyone for help. You can't ask for help.
00:17:09 --> 00:17:15 Because if you do that, then you're admitting that you can't handle what you're
00:17:15 --> 00:17:19 taught you're supposed to always be able to handle, which is your own life and
00:17:19 --> 00:17:21 your own shit and your own kids.
00:17:21 --> 00:17:26 So there's guilt for needing help. And there's definitely guilt for resting.
00:17:26 --> 00:17:31 There's guilt for feeling resentful that you're not getting help.
00:17:31 --> 00:17:38 So it's just this kind of this twisted tension about, you know,
00:17:38 --> 00:17:43 when to even feel like you can ask for help or you can sit down or you can unplug.
00:17:44 --> 00:17:49 I mean, somewhere along the way, women have internalized this belief that we
00:17:49 --> 00:17:54 are in charge of the emotional stability, the physical safety,
00:17:54 --> 00:17:58 the, you know, not necessarily always, but, you know, times are changing,
00:17:59 --> 00:18:00 the financial stability.
00:18:00 --> 00:18:04 You know, just the overall stability within the home, like, women have tanked
00:18:04 --> 00:18:07 that on as, like, that's their job.
00:18:07 --> 00:18:13 And that is such an incredible amount of pressure that, you know,
00:18:13 --> 00:18:21 I think kind of was contributing to what I was feeling in a previous episode where I just,
00:18:21 --> 00:18:27 the pressure of all of it being on me all the time, especially now that I'm working full time.
00:18:27 --> 00:18:32 And I just, I almost snapped. I really did.
00:18:32 --> 00:18:35 Looking for mental health resources that actually fit
00:18:35 --> 00:18:38 who you are and where you come from then you
00:18:38 --> 00:18:41 need to check out the help hub it's not another generic wellness
00:18:41 --> 00:18:44 site it's a free inclusive online platform
00:18:44 --> 00:18:48 built for real people living real lives people
00:18:48 --> 00:18:55 managing stress anxiety depression trauma and abuse grief or suicide loss at
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00:19:00 --> 00:19:05 content you need in the moment without having to dig through endless tabs or start from scratch.
00:19:05 --> 00:19:11 It's your place to land, to take a breath, and to find exactly what you need when you need it most.
00:19:12 --> 00:19:16 Visit thehelphub.co where the help you need is just a click away.
00:19:22 --> 00:19:27 I don't think you're the only one. I don't think this is an isolated experience that you're feeling.
00:19:27 --> 00:19:33 I think that there are so many women out there who just feel like they have
00:19:33 --> 00:19:36 to measure up and feel like they have. I mean, there's this whole comparison culture.
00:19:36 --> 00:19:38 We talk about this. You and I have talked about this before.
00:19:38 --> 00:19:43 Or there's this whole comparison culture where you have to have this perfectly
00:19:43 --> 00:19:50 curated life in order to feel like you're accomplished or you're successful in some way.
00:19:50 --> 00:19:54 And that's an incredible, incredible burden to carry.
00:19:54 --> 00:20:03 Like, I don't give a shit anymore about whether or not I'm keeping up with the people around me.
00:20:03 --> 00:20:08 I mean, I'm at the point now in my late 50s where I have wasted too much of
00:20:08 --> 00:20:16 my time in my life caring about how I look, the optics of how I might look to other people.
00:20:16 --> 00:20:19 And I've never been somebody who did that a lot, but we're all human.
00:20:19 --> 00:20:22 And so we do do that kind of thing from time to time.
00:20:22 --> 00:20:27 I don't do it anymore. I don't do it anymore. And it is so liberating.
00:20:27 --> 00:20:32 And what it does for your mental health when you realize that you're not competing
00:20:32 --> 00:20:35 with anybody else, nobody else.
00:20:36 --> 00:20:40 It doesn't matter who's around you. It doesn't matter who lives next door to you. It doesn't matter.
00:20:41 --> 00:20:44 First of all, it doesn't matter because nine times out of 10,
00:20:44 --> 00:20:47 what you think you see in someone else's life isn't real.
00:20:48 --> 00:20:52 That's the thing. That's the scary thing about it that causes all these issues,
00:20:52 --> 00:20:58 that causes people to have breakdowns and be depressed and be suicidal and take
00:20:58 --> 00:21:02 their life is because you spend so much time comparing yourself to what you think other people are.
00:21:02 --> 00:21:05 But nine times out of ten, they're not like that.
00:21:05 --> 00:21:09 They're the same dumpster fire that maybe you are.
00:21:10 --> 00:21:13 You know, I love that expression, but it's so true, like especially in the context
00:21:13 --> 00:21:14 of what we're talking about.
00:21:15 --> 00:21:19 It's true. Well, and here's another thing that I was just barely thinking about
00:21:19 --> 00:21:25 is, you know, I have, again, like you, stopped comparing myself to other people.
00:21:26 --> 00:21:32 And that is, it's easier for me to do that when I'm away from my family,
00:21:32 --> 00:21:38 because that is a central core part of the toxic cycle I was raised in is the constant comparison.
00:21:40 --> 00:21:48 But I, the pressure that I feel in the last several years is that I am comparing
00:21:48 --> 00:21:54 myself, comparing to myself or the version of myself that I thought I would be at, say, 40 years old.
00:21:54 --> 00:21:57 Or I reach a milestone and I
00:21:57 --> 00:22:01 just keep raising the bar against myself and
00:22:01 --> 00:22:04 have now I have not learned to just
00:22:04 --> 00:22:06 be hey look at all of
00:22:06 --> 00:22:12 your that you're doing holy hell you're amazing when I hear other people talk
00:22:12 --> 00:22:18 about me I'm like who are you talking about like I overheard a co-worker talk
00:22:18 --> 00:22:24 explaining me to somebody else and I was like and I knew she was talking about me but I was like,
00:22:25 --> 00:22:26 She's talking about me.
00:22:28 --> 00:22:34 Well, look, look, look, it's always so much easier for any of us to do that,
00:22:34 --> 00:22:42 to give other people compliments and, you know, say the nice things about all the other people.
00:22:44 --> 00:22:49 We never talk to ourselves the way we talk to other people or about other people.
00:22:49 --> 00:22:53 I have a little thing that I think would be good for, you know,
00:22:53 --> 00:22:55 all the women or whoever's listening.
00:22:55 --> 00:23:03 When was the last time that you looked yourself in the mirror and said, I appreciate you?
00:23:03 --> 00:23:10 I love you. That's a good one. Thank you for all you do. Do you do that? No, I'm gonna.
00:23:11 --> 00:23:17 I love you just gave this amazing suggestion and you don't do it, but that's okay.
00:23:18 --> 00:23:22 I mean, I have, I have periodically, but I don't make it a regular habit.
00:23:22 --> 00:23:25 We do have what I call a gratitude board. It's a dry erase board.
00:23:25 --> 00:23:28 It's huge, massive out in our hallway upstairs.
00:23:29 --> 00:23:33 And it's, we're supposed to be writing three things that we're grateful for each day.
00:23:33 --> 00:23:37 And since we've moved back in the house, we just got it hung a week or two ago.
00:23:37 --> 00:23:42 And my daughter, I'm so proud of her. She has been every day writing three things
00:23:42 --> 00:23:44 on there that she's grateful for.
00:23:45 --> 00:23:52 And so, yeah, I think if we just take a moment to thank ourselves and realize,
00:23:52 --> 00:23:54 holy hell, we deal with a lot.
00:23:55 --> 00:24:01 And grace is just so underestimated and undervalued if we could just give ourselves
00:24:01 --> 00:24:03 a little bit of grace. Yeah.
00:24:03 --> 00:24:08 Well, it's like I said a minute ago that we do not talk to ourselves at all
00:24:08 --> 00:24:10 the way we talk to other people.
00:24:10 --> 00:24:15 We would never talk to other people the way we talk to ourselves when we go
00:24:15 --> 00:24:22 off on ourselves and start with all the negative self-talk. And like you're
00:24:22 --> 00:24:25 saying, you're comparing yourself to your past self.
00:24:25 --> 00:24:29 What I've realized now at this stage of my life, because you and I are at different
00:24:29 --> 00:24:34 places in terms of like our kids, mine are grown and they're out of the house
00:24:34 --> 00:24:37 and living on their own. So I'm a little bit ahead of the game in that way.
00:24:38 --> 00:24:46 But one of the things that I try to be more consistent about now is recognizing
00:24:46 --> 00:24:50 that I don't want to be the same person that I was.
00:24:50 --> 00:24:58 I do want to carry the things that I'm proud of with me and build on those things,
00:24:58 --> 00:25:03 but I'm not really as fixated anymore on, like,
00:25:03 --> 00:25:08 strip myself down to the studs and get it all right and have it all figured out.
00:25:08 --> 00:25:15 So like that's just a bogus way to move through life is to, and I think that's
00:25:15 --> 00:25:16 where so many people's problems come from.
00:25:16 --> 00:25:23 I know that in my own head, either feeling like I wasn't enough at times or
00:25:23 --> 00:25:27 feeling like I didn't have the right to slow down at times,
00:25:27 --> 00:25:32 that just has some of the most profound impacts on our mental health and wellness
00:25:32 --> 00:25:40 and contributes to suicide with women when we see our our bodies start to change
00:25:40 --> 00:25:43 and we don't embrace them for what they are and what they've been and what they've done.
00:25:43 --> 00:25:50 Like in our case, birthed children or been strong enough to,
00:25:50 --> 00:25:53 you know, hold a family on your shoulders for years.
00:25:53 --> 00:25:59 So all the things that we do every day, like we only think about how we're changing
00:25:59 --> 00:26:03 in a negative, in a negative way versus, you know.
00:26:04 --> 00:26:09 What is it that's good about us that we want to continue to build on?
00:26:09 --> 00:26:11 And what are we ready to cut loose?
00:26:12 --> 00:26:16 Doesn't necessarily mean something's wrong with us. I'm just at a point now
00:26:16 --> 00:26:23 where I'm done comparing myself to anybody, even my past self, because life is fluid.
00:26:23 --> 00:26:28 And I would never expect to be the same consistently.
00:26:28 --> 00:26:33 Like, we're always a work in progress. We have a sign, we got it in California
00:26:33 --> 00:26:39 many, many, many years ago at some winery, I think, in San Francisco was this
00:26:39 --> 00:26:42 beautiful sign that says we're all at work in progress.
00:26:43 --> 00:26:48 And it's one of my favorite pieces in my house because I see it every day.
00:26:48 --> 00:26:52 It's in our dining room and I walk by it every day. And it's such a constant
00:26:52 --> 00:26:58 reminder that we are always evolving and changing and we have to give ourselves
00:26:58 --> 00:27:01 the freedom to be able to do that.
00:27:02 --> 00:27:06 So I think that if we can all be a little less hard on ourselves,
00:27:07 --> 00:27:11 I think, I think, well, I think this does not just apply to women.
00:27:11 --> 00:27:14 I think this applies to everybody in the generalized suicide rate.
00:27:14 --> 00:27:17 I think so much of that will change.
00:27:17 --> 00:27:23 So much of that will change if we realize that we're not being dramatic by being
00:27:23 --> 00:27:30 overwhelmed or by saying that we're tired or by carrying everything that we're
00:27:30 --> 00:27:33 carrying and needing to put it down. We're just being human.
00:27:34 --> 00:27:43 Absolutely. I mean, we shrink ourselves so much, and we lose ourselves in all that we do.
00:27:43 --> 00:27:47 You know, I don't know about you, but I was, you know, I had,
00:27:47 --> 00:27:53 I partied back in, you know, the day, and I felt like I lost that person.
00:27:54 --> 00:28:00 And you had said something to me in a couple episodes back where maybe I don't
00:28:00 --> 00:28:04 need to go back to that person or something along, you know.
00:28:04 --> 00:28:07 She's no longer living that you're
00:28:07 --> 00:28:10 not a failure if you aren't that person
00:28:10 --> 00:28:13 anymore right there's too much that's happened in
00:28:13 --> 00:28:16 the last say five years that that version
00:28:16 --> 00:28:19 of me she's been laid to
00:28:19 --> 00:28:23 rest she doesn't exist anymore and i
00:28:23 --> 00:28:25 need to find a way to find the new
00:28:25 --> 00:28:29 me that is learning to exist in
00:28:29 --> 00:28:32 this world with all this pressure with all this grief with
00:28:32 --> 00:28:35 everything and and as
00:28:35 --> 00:28:38 mothers we lose or even as
00:28:38 --> 00:28:43 women we lose ourselves in what we're supposed to be the rather than what we
00:28:43 --> 00:28:50 are yeah and that that goes back to the constructs that we're all that we're
00:28:50 --> 00:28:56 all fed from the time we're young that we have to go to college,
00:28:56 --> 00:28:58 that we have to get married,
00:28:58 --> 00:29:04 that we have to have the corporate job or a job. And...
00:29:04 --> 00:29:09 I do think that this current generation is changing that. And I think there's
00:29:09 --> 00:29:10 a great trickle-down effect.
00:29:11 --> 00:29:18 We're all learning that there is no right path. There is no straight line.
00:29:18 --> 00:29:24 There is no formula to follow anymore. And we're getting there. We're getting there.
00:29:24 --> 00:29:28 I just wish we would get there faster. Yeah. I really do.
00:29:28 --> 00:29:31 Because I think at the end of the day, no matter how many conversations people
00:29:31 --> 00:29:34 have, like the one we're having right now, where we're like,
00:29:34 --> 00:29:39 give yourself grace and shut down when you need to shut down and put the load
00:29:39 --> 00:29:42 that you're carrying down for a minute. You're not weak.
00:29:42 --> 00:29:49 All of those things, it may create little ripples of change.
00:29:49 --> 00:29:54 It's gonna take time. It's not gonna happen overnight. It's gonna take so many
00:29:54 --> 00:30:00 more kinds of these conversations in so many different spaces and places where
00:30:00 --> 00:30:02 people are admitting, I am overwhelmed.
00:30:02 --> 00:30:08 I am not perfect I can't handle it I need a break and do it unapologetically
00:30:08 --> 00:30:11 and that's the thing I didn't do that for the majority of my.
00:30:12 --> 00:30:17 Early married life I just took it on did all the things had a million balls
00:30:17 --> 00:30:22 in the air and it was because I felt like I needed to and I know now that I
00:30:22 --> 00:30:25 don't but unfortunately we don't learn a lot of this stuff when we're young
00:30:25 --> 00:30:26 we learn a lot of this stuff.
00:30:28 --> 00:30:30 Through trial and lots and lots of error Yeah.
00:30:31 --> 00:30:34 Yeah, I do. I listened to her. Excuse me.
00:30:34 --> 00:30:40 I follow this one gal on social media, and she's actually a family licensed family therapist.
00:30:40 --> 00:30:44 And she said she it's just today. I think it was.
00:30:44 --> 00:30:48 And she said, I want to share with you the number one thing that I can confirm
00:30:48 --> 00:30:54 is working the most in keeping marriages going and helping to save women.
00:30:54 --> 00:31:01 And it's this term, it's kind of a new term, it's called decentralizing your
00:31:01 --> 00:31:03 husband, or the man in your life.
00:31:04 --> 00:31:10 And that's where you stop making him the central part of it,
00:31:10 --> 00:31:12 like, stop asking to take a shower.
00:31:13 --> 00:31:17 Stop asking him to- Who is asking to take a shower? Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
00:31:17 --> 00:31:22 I mean, are we talking trad wives now, or are we- Well, just women in general,
00:31:23 --> 00:31:26 especially when you have young kids, it's like, hey, can you watch the kids
00:31:26 --> 00:31:28 while I go take a shower situation? Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha.
00:31:28 --> 00:31:32 I see what you're saying. Or she had mentioned something about where,
00:31:32 --> 00:31:37 you know, your husband gets up at a specific time to take a shower and you get
00:31:37 --> 00:31:41 up even earlier to accommodate him or later to accommodate him.
00:31:42 --> 00:31:50 Start doing what works best for you. And I kind of had this situation even just in the last year.
00:31:50 --> 00:31:54 And I just told George, you know, for 23 years, Yeah.
00:31:55 --> 00:31:59 I did his laundry, especially when we first moved in together.
00:31:59 --> 00:32:02 I was so excited to be Susie Homemaker.
00:32:02 --> 00:32:05 And I just immediately, he didn't ask me to start doing his laundry.
00:32:06 --> 00:32:08 I wanted to because that's what I was trained to do.
00:32:08 --> 00:32:12 That's what women do. We just, I immediately just became Susie Homemaker.
00:32:12 --> 00:32:15 It freaked him out because he was like, what?
00:32:15 --> 00:32:21 Well, I mean, let's give everybody who does not know your background in history
00:32:21 --> 00:32:24 a 10 to 20 second catch up.
00:32:24 --> 00:32:31 That you were part of the FLDS, the Fundamentalist Church of Latter-day Saints
00:32:31 --> 00:32:34 polygamy cult, three moms, one dad.
00:32:35 --> 00:32:41 Warren Jeffs was your uncle. You lived in a compound where you were taking care
00:32:41 --> 00:32:43 of all of your younger siblings.
00:32:43 --> 00:32:46 Anyone who came before you, you were taken care of and so on.
00:32:46 --> 00:32:53 You had all the same responsibilities that a mother would have at what, the age of eight?
00:32:54 --> 00:32:59 Probably, if not earlier? Yeah, I would say probably between the ages of 10 and 12.
00:32:59 --> 00:33:04 Okay, okay. So even for you in particular, like you, Natasha,
00:33:04 --> 00:33:12 it's even more amplified because you grew up in an environment where that was a way of life.
00:33:12 --> 00:33:16 Women were subservient to me. Yes, yes. Yes, absolutely.
00:33:17 --> 00:33:20 So I just did it.
00:33:20 --> 00:33:25 And so, yeah, it's been about six months ago, and I just came to George and
00:33:25 --> 00:33:28 I just said, I can't do your laundry anymore.
00:33:29 --> 00:33:32 And he was a little shocked, but okay.
00:33:32 --> 00:33:38 And I said, I look, I'm not trying to punish you, but I can't.
00:33:38 --> 00:33:42 And believe it or not, our children, our daughter is 14 and our son is 12.
00:33:43 --> 00:33:45 They've been doing their own laundry for about three years now.
00:33:46 --> 00:33:50 That's amazing. My kids did laundry when they were that age too.
00:33:51 --> 00:33:57 And, you know, everybody learns to pitch in, but what we have to do is learn
00:33:57 --> 00:34:04 as women, especially as caregivers, we have to learn to put ourselves in the equation.
00:34:05 --> 00:34:09 And you also started working around that time, full time.
00:34:09 --> 00:34:14 And we're moving and we're still doing all the mom things that you do with kids
00:34:14 --> 00:34:19 who are still in school and in sports. And And you have a really full life.
00:34:19 --> 00:34:23 And good for you for saying, I'm going to take this thing off my plate.
00:34:24 --> 00:34:27 Good for you. And I don't think enough people do that. It's been great.
00:34:27 --> 00:34:33 Like, his laundry basket gets full. And to know that that is not on my plate. Mm-hmm.
00:34:35 --> 00:34:39 I'll do my laundry when I run out of underwear. Okay, fair. Just don't forget
00:34:39 --> 00:34:41 if you flip them inside out.
00:34:42 --> 00:34:45 Isn't that a thing? You know, and there's just, there's these different things
00:34:45 --> 00:34:48 that we can do if we can learn.
00:34:48 --> 00:34:52 And, you know, I get that being a single mother is a different situation and
00:34:52 --> 00:34:57 tremendous amount of respect for the single mothers or parents out there.
00:34:57 --> 00:35:03 Doing this all alone, holy hell. I was raised by one of those remarkable human
00:35:03 --> 00:35:08 beings. I look today, I look back now as a mom, just couldn't even begin to
00:35:08 --> 00:35:10 tell you how my mother did all the things that she did.
00:35:11 --> 00:35:18 There is such a mad, crazy amount of respect that I have for my own mother and
00:35:18 --> 00:35:20 any single parent out there.
00:35:21 --> 00:35:25 Because it is hard enough to do when you have support. I can't even imagine
00:35:25 --> 00:35:31 what raising young children is like when you're just on your own. Mm-hmm.
00:35:32 --> 00:35:36 You know, and that contributes to the depression and the mental illness and
00:35:36 --> 00:35:40 the exhaustion and the stress and all the things we started this conversation talking about.
00:35:41 --> 00:35:44 And not having the village. Like, everybody talks about the village,
00:35:44 --> 00:35:45 the village, the village.
00:35:45 --> 00:35:50 Like, unfortunately, you know, that's no longer a thing.
00:35:51 --> 00:35:55 Well, not everybody has it. It is a thing, but not everybody has it.
00:35:55 --> 00:35:58 Yeah. So when you talk about, like, the support that you have with you.
00:35:58 --> 00:36:02 And again, this is very different for me.
00:36:02 --> 00:36:08 Some of my siblings got the village with their raising their young children where they showed up.
00:36:09 --> 00:36:12 Example, I showed up for my sisters and helped them raise their children.
00:36:12 --> 00:36:16 Did I get that same thing? And I never, ever did it because I was expecting
00:36:16 --> 00:36:19 it. I didn't want to have children for a number of years.
00:36:20 --> 00:36:24 I did it because I loved them and that's what we did. Did I get that reciprocated
00:36:24 --> 00:36:25 when my children were little?
00:36:26 --> 00:36:31 Absolutely not. And I see that now with some of my other siblings, my brothers.
00:36:32 --> 00:36:38 They get the village. Others do not. I don't know why it is, but I know it's a thing.
00:36:38 --> 00:36:46 Yeah. Well, you also came from a family of, you have 19. You had 19 siblings. Right.
00:36:46 --> 00:36:54 And three different moms and different dynamics and different family hierarchy and all that.
00:36:54 --> 00:36:56 So in your case, it's very different. Well, I've heard of it happening in other
00:36:56 --> 00:37:00 families that are not polygamist. Oh, sure.
00:37:00 --> 00:37:04 Of course it happens. Yeah, that's based on family dynamics,
00:37:04 --> 00:37:09 you know, where one sibling or, you know, select siblings received more support than others.
00:37:09 --> 00:37:13 And, you know, I just want to say that if you're, if you feel like you're,
00:37:13 --> 00:37:17 you're doing this all alone and you feel like you're Atlas holding the world
00:37:17 --> 00:37:19 on your damn shoulders, it's because you are.
00:37:19 --> 00:37:22 And you're absolutely freaking amazing.
00:37:23 --> 00:37:27 And please look at yourself in the mirror and say, thank you.
00:37:27 --> 00:37:29 I appreciate you. And I love you.
00:37:30 --> 00:37:34 Well, I think that's a great place to start. I think it's a great place to start.
00:37:34 --> 00:37:40 I think that we should all be paying attention to those invisible responsibilities
00:37:40 --> 00:37:42 that we carry, and we name them.
00:37:42 --> 00:37:50 We just name them and acknowledge them and ask for support. Do that.
00:37:50 --> 00:37:54 There is nothing wrong with that. We are entitled to that.
00:37:54 --> 00:38:02 And maybe replace a little bit of the guilt that we all have with, like, what do I need?
00:38:03 --> 00:38:09 Instead of feeling guilty, like, what do I need to resolve some of the feelings or being overwhelmed?
00:38:10 --> 00:38:15 And check in with the women in your life.
00:38:15 --> 00:38:21 Check in to make sure that they're being honest with you and themselves,
00:38:21 --> 00:38:23 because that's where it starts.
00:38:24 --> 00:38:29 That's where the root of all of our mental wellness starts. It's with how honest
00:38:29 --> 00:38:33 are we being with ourselves and with the people around us.
00:38:33 --> 00:38:38 And I think conversations like this are where it starts. I agree.
00:38:39 --> 00:38:44 All right, let's come back and talk again, like maybe exactly one week from today.
00:38:45 --> 00:38:49 Sounds good. Okay. Bye, honey. Bye. Love you. Love you too.
00:38:50 --> 00:38:53 Thanks so much for listening and for being part of the survivors community.
00:38:54 --> 00:38:58 No matter where you are in your story, you're not alone and you're definitely not broken.
00:38:59 --> 00:39:03 Healing takes time and it looks different for everyone. The fact that you're
00:39:03 --> 00:39:07 still here and still trying means you're already doing the hard work.
00:39:07 --> 00:39:11 If something in today's conversation resonated with you, please share it with
00:39:11 --> 00:39:13 someone who might need to hear it too.
00:39:13 --> 00:39:18 That's how we keep these conversations going and remind each other that there's always hope.
00:39:19 --> 00:39:21 And if you or someone you know is struggling, please remember,
00:39:22 --> 00:39:23 help is always out there.
00:39:23 --> 00:39:28 You can call or text 988 anytime to reach a trained crisis counselor like me.
00:39:28 --> 00:39:31 And for more mental health resources, tools, treatment options,
00:39:31 --> 00:39:35 and content to support your mental health, visit thehelphub.co.
00:39:35 --> 00:39:39 We're so grateful you're part of the Survivors family, and we'll be back next
00:39:39 --> 00:39:43 week with another honest conversation about life after the hardest things.
00:39:43 --> 00:39:47 Until then, take care of yourself and your people, and keep surviving.
00:39:49 --> 00:39:49 Bye.