*WARNING: This podcast mentions suicide, sexual abuse & trauma and may be triggering.
Episode Summary
In this episode of The Survivors, we explore what it feels like to carry the invisible weight of loss while the rest of the world keeps moving around you. Whether you're grieving the death of a loved one, navigating a life-changing loss, or supporting someone through one of the hardest seasons of their life, this conversation offers compassion, understanding, and practical insight.
We talk about the profound isolation that often accompanies grief, the pressure to function when you're hurting inside, and why one of the most powerful things we can do for someone who's struggling is simply show up. Not with solutions. Not with advice. Just with our presence.
Drawing from personal experiences with loss, we discuss how grief reshapes relationships, impacts family dynamics, and changes the way we move through everyday life. We also explore the importance of witnessing another person's pain, honoring the uniqueness of every grief journey, and extending ourselves the same compassion we'd offer to someone we love.
If you've ever felt like you're living inside a cocoon of grief, if you've struggled to explain your pain to others, or if you've wondered how to better support someone who is hurting, this episode is for you.
Because grief isn't something we "get over." It's something we learn to carry. And no one should have to carry it alone.
Episode Sponsored by The HelpHUB™
Struggling with your mental health? Feeling lost, overwhelmed, or just alone? Well, you're not. Welcome to The HelpHUB™—your online destination for mental health resources, treatment options, content, and tools to help meet you exactly where you are in the moment. Visit TheHelpHUB.co to get started.
Takeaways
- Why grief often feels invisible to everyone except the person carrying it
- The loneliness that can come with loss
- What it means to be a witness to someone else's pain
- Why presence matters more than finding the "right" words
- Navigating everyday life while grieving
- The disconnect between your internal grief and the outside world
- How grief affects relationships, friendships, and family dynamics
- The unique nature of every grief journey
- Common misconceptions about grief and healing
- Coping mechanisms people use to survive difficult losses
- The lasting impact of loss on identity and perspective
- Learning to hold space for yourself and others
- Finding empathy through lived experience
- Practical ways to support someone who is grieving
- Why grief isn't something we "move on" from, but something we learn to live alongside
- The importance of self-compassion during periods of loss
- How community and connection can help reduce isolation
- A message of hope for anyone carrying the weight of grief
Chapters
00:00 - The Invisible Weight of Grief 03:28 - The Importance of Witnessing Grief 06:21 - The Loneliness of Grief 09:20 - Navigating Daily Life While Grieving 12:23 - The Unique Nature of Grief 16:01 - Coping Mechanisms and Family Dynamics 19:08 - The Impact of Grief on Relationships 22:16 - The Complexity of Grief and Memory 25:00 - Finding Empathy Through Grief 28:06 - A Message of Support for the Grieving
Mental Health Resources
- If you or someone you know is struggling, please call 988 for help.
- The Survivors Podcast Website – https://thesurvivors.net/
- National Domestic Violence Hotline – Call 1-800-799-SAFE (7223)
- Surviving: Finding Hope After Suicide Loss (Familius Books)
- The HelpHUB™ – Mental health resources, tools, and support networks – https://www.thehelphub.co/
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See you next week! In the meantime, keep surviving.
00:00:00 --> 00:00:04 Hey, friends, before we dive into this week's episode, just a heads up.
00:00:04 --> 00:00:08 Our podcast talks about suicide, sexual abuse, and other trauma,
00:00:08 --> 00:00:12 and some of what you hear may be triggering. So please listen with care.
00:00:13 --> 00:00:18 This is The Survivors, real stories, raw conversations, and the truth about
00:00:18 --> 00:00:20 what it means to keep going after the hardest things.
00:00:21 --> 00:00:24 We're so glad you're here. Let's keep surviving together. other.
00:00:25 --> 00:00:31 You know, it's been on my mind lately, especially since we lost my mother-in-law earlier this year.
00:00:33 --> 00:00:39 I think one of the hardest things about grief is that it feels so invisible.
00:00:39 --> 00:00:43 It can feel invisible to everybody around us.
00:00:43 --> 00:00:50 Like when you're carrying this huge weight of pain and loss inside you,
00:00:50 --> 00:00:54 like it's overwhelming your heart and all of your thoughts and your day to day,
00:00:54 --> 00:00:59 but the rest of the world just keeps spinning around you,
00:00:59 --> 00:01:06 business as usual, but it's all we can think about and it's everywhere we go with us.
00:01:06 --> 00:01:10 It's like, you know, kind of ball and chain, like, you know what I mean?
00:01:12 --> 00:01:17 I can't even tell you, you know, in 2023 when we lost so many people in such
00:01:17 --> 00:01:25 a short amount of time, I felt like I was walking around with a bowling ball-sized hole in my gut.
00:01:27 --> 00:01:31 And it was like, how on earth can the world not see this? Yeah.
00:01:32 --> 00:01:38 And it was just absolutely almost impossible, and it was many days, to function properly.
00:01:39 --> 00:01:45 In any kind of normal capacity. And so I get it, you know, and it's really hard.
00:01:45 --> 00:01:47 So what do you do when you feel like that?
00:01:49 --> 00:01:55 I don't know, honestly. At times I get kind of inwardly frustrated or a little
00:01:55 --> 00:01:58 bit almost angry, but it's so irrational.
00:01:59 --> 00:02:03 Like I have to kind of talk myself down because I'll be like in the, I really do.
00:02:03 --> 00:02:07 I'll be sometimes, it just happened the other day. I think I was in Whole Foods.
00:02:08 --> 00:02:12 And something crossed my mind. And I was thinking about my mother-in-law.
00:02:12 --> 00:02:16 And I was just by myself, just kind of like in the fruit section, whatever it was.
00:02:16 --> 00:02:22 And I was all of a sudden very overwhelmed by a thought of her.
00:02:22 --> 00:02:23 And it made me really emotional.
00:02:25 --> 00:02:27 And I'm watching everybody else, you know, pick up and put down their fruit.
00:02:28 --> 00:02:30 And they're, you know, they're squeezing all their lemons and all that.
00:02:30 --> 00:02:34 And I'm just standing there in the middle of the produce section with tears
00:02:34 --> 00:02:41 coming down my face, feeling like, doesn't anybody around me see how much I'm hurting?
00:02:42 --> 00:02:45 And I guess it was like this irrational thought, like, why are these people
00:02:45 --> 00:02:49 not coming up to hug me right now and ask me how I'm okay? I mean, like, it's so dumb.
00:02:49 --> 00:02:53 It's so dumb, but it really is how I was feeling.
00:02:53 --> 00:03:00 It's like you almost expect at times that everybody else can see it too and feel it too.
00:03:00 --> 00:03:05 And they can't. And I could never fault anybody. My rational mind would never fault anybody for that.
00:03:05 --> 00:03:08 But there are definitely times like in that moment, I had to be like,
00:03:08 --> 00:03:11 whoa, wait a minute. You're not wearing a billboard.
00:03:12 --> 00:03:16 This did not happen to them. These people are strangers. They don't know you
00:03:16 --> 00:03:19 or your life. But it's really painful.
00:03:19 --> 00:03:22 And sometimes you and I were talking about this before we hit record.
00:03:23 --> 00:03:26 Sometimes you just want someone to witness it. Mm-hmm.
00:03:27 --> 00:03:30 That's the greatest. Honestly, that's the greatest thing that you can do for
00:03:30 --> 00:03:37 anybody that is grieving is to sit with them and be with them while they're grieving.
00:03:37 --> 00:03:40 Don't try and fix it. Don't force them to talk about it.
00:03:40 --> 00:03:46 Just sit and be. And if they sob uncontrollably, if they're angry,
00:03:46 --> 00:03:48 whatever it is that they need to be.
00:03:48 --> 00:03:54 Now, it does take somebody that's very emotionally strong to be that person for the grieving.
00:03:55 --> 00:03:58 But I'll tell you what that person that's grieving
00:03:58 --> 00:04:01 will never forget it absolutely never forget
00:04:01 --> 00:04:05 you showing up for them and even so we
00:04:05 --> 00:04:10 often talk about how people show up a lot in the beginning and and the grieving
00:04:10 --> 00:04:16 goes on for months and years and so after about six usually three more like
00:04:16 --> 00:04:20 people are just go back to their normal lives they stop checking in and how
00:04:20 --> 00:04:23 hard that gets when you're left alone in it.
00:04:23 --> 00:04:28 So continue to check on your people that have lost somebody.
00:04:28 --> 00:04:34 It is incredibly hard for months and years, especially when they've had multiple losses.
00:04:35 --> 00:04:40 Yeah, yeah. I mean, I call my father-in-law, I think I've told you this,
00:04:40 --> 00:04:45 that I, when we lost my mother-in-law back in January, when they're down in
00:04:45 --> 00:04:49 Florida and we're here in Boston, when I left Florida, I was like,
00:04:50 --> 00:04:54 That night when I got home, I called my father-in-law, how was the rest of your
00:04:54 --> 00:04:57 day? I'm thinking about you. I called him the next morning.
00:04:57 --> 00:05:00 And I remember him saying, you know, I said, just want to check in on you.
00:05:00 --> 00:05:03 Just want to say have a, you know, just be gentle with yourself today.
00:05:03 --> 00:05:05 And what are you doing today? And that kind of thing.
00:05:06 --> 00:05:10 And I remember after that first or second phone call, he just said,
00:05:10 --> 00:05:12 can you do this every day?
00:05:12 --> 00:05:16 And I said, yep, I will do it every day. Do you know I have,
00:05:16 --> 00:05:18 you know, I'm the queen of having alarms on my phone.
00:05:18 --> 00:05:23 So I have got seven days a week. I have a morning alarm.
00:05:24 --> 00:05:28 It's such a running joke in my family. 7.45 alarm goes off and I call my father-in-law.
00:05:28 --> 00:05:32 8.05 PM alarm. Don't ask me why it's 8.05. It's just, it is.
00:05:32 --> 00:05:35 8.05 PM, I call him to find out how his day was.
00:05:36 --> 00:05:40 And even we could sometimes we talk for 20 minutes, sometimes we talk for 20 seconds.
00:05:40 --> 00:05:45 And I've been doing this now for almost five months. And he still this week
00:05:45 --> 00:05:49 was like, you know how much I love this, don't you? And it's it matters.
00:05:49 --> 00:05:53 It's those little acts of just being present for someone.
00:05:54 --> 00:05:59 Like, I can't fix it. I can't fix it. You know, my our daughter came home.
00:06:00 --> 00:06:00 I didn't even tell you this.
00:06:01 --> 00:06:04 You know, that that my daughter, Riley, came home from Japan.
00:06:04 --> 00:06:10 And I was just there last month and she came home with me because she was wedding dress shopping. And,
00:06:11 --> 00:06:14 She had not been home to the U.S. since my mother-in-law passed away.
00:06:16 --> 00:06:19 And it was like one o'clock in the morning. She was super jet lagged.
00:06:19 --> 00:06:23 And she came up into our bed and crawled into our bed and was like, are you guys awake?
00:06:24 --> 00:06:30 And we started talking and my mother-in-law came up and she had not really had
00:06:30 --> 00:06:36 like an experience of someone close to her who knew my mother-in-law with her
00:06:36 --> 00:06:38 to experience that grief. like all the cousins.
00:06:38 --> 00:06:42 We were all in Florida. We were all together. She was the only one in the family
00:06:42 --> 00:06:47 who was not with us because she was abroad. And she was with her husband, which is amazing.
00:06:48 --> 00:06:52 But he never met my mother-in-law. So there was no way for her.
00:06:52 --> 00:06:53 No friends over there met her.
00:06:53 --> 00:06:57 So she sobbed and sobbed and we cried together.
00:06:58 --> 00:07:03 And I couldn't fix it. It is the most gut-wrenching thing in the world to not
00:07:03 --> 00:07:07 be able to fix someone's pain that you love, especially your child. but,
00:07:08 --> 00:07:13 You could see the relief afterwards, after she kind of cycled through it,
00:07:13 --> 00:07:18 and was just like, I didn't realize how much I needed that and how much I needed
00:07:18 --> 00:07:21 to do that in the presence of the people that I love.
00:07:22 --> 00:07:28 And we don't realize how powerful it is to just hold space, but it is. Absolutely.
00:07:31 --> 00:07:35 I'm so glad that you still did that for your father-in-law. I've mentioned before
00:07:35 --> 00:07:39 about how my aunt did that. She called me every day on her lunch break for months
00:07:39 --> 00:07:44 after I lost multiple family members, and it made all the difference in the world.
00:07:44 --> 00:07:47 Sometimes I didn't answer the phone, but she still left a message,
00:07:47 --> 00:07:50 and she still called every day.
00:07:50 --> 00:07:56 And I honestly have to say she was probably one of the most instrumental people
00:07:56 --> 00:08:01 of getting me through that to just know that I had her to depend on and talk to.
00:08:02 --> 00:08:08 And I'll be forever grateful to her. You know, it's just, it means the absolute
00:08:08 --> 00:08:13 world to people when you just show up and continue to show up for months and
00:08:13 --> 00:08:15 years. The world, yes, it goes on.
00:08:15 --> 00:08:21 But people are walking around with a gaping hole for months and years and forever, really.
00:08:21 --> 00:08:27 You know? And so, just a, I really think about that a lot because I remember,
00:08:27 --> 00:08:29 I remember those that did show up.
00:08:30 --> 00:08:33 And I remember those that I thought would show up but didn't.
00:08:33 --> 00:08:35 Yeah, you and I have talked about that.
00:08:35 --> 00:08:40 Yeah, and it's honestly very kind of heartbreaking at the same time,
00:08:40 --> 00:08:44 but it also lets you know, like, I cannot depend on that person.
00:08:44 --> 00:08:46 And it's really unfortunate.
00:08:46 --> 00:08:50 But it also, you know, makes you realize, oh, wow, this person showed up for
00:08:50 --> 00:08:52 me. I didn't expect him to.
00:08:53 --> 00:08:55 And I am so grateful for that, you know. Yeah.
00:08:56 --> 00:09:01 And, you know, the hardest thing is realizing that the world moves on and it
00:09:01 --> 00:09:05 does, even though it feels like it's stopped for you, the world keeps moving.
00:09:06 --> 00:09:09 And, you know, I remember, you know, you have to get back to life.
00:09:10 --> 00:09:15 And I'm walking around having just buried four family members in five months
00:09:15 --> 00:09:20 and I would still get up and I wasn't working at the time, but,
00:09:20 --> 00:09:23 you know, I still had to be a mom and do all the things.
00:09:23 --> 00:09:28 And I remember I would go run errands, grocery shop, do whatever it was I needed
00:09:28 --> 00:09:33 to do, and I would get home and I was like, I was on autopilot the whole time.
00:09:33 --> 00:09:36 I had no recollection of what I had just done.
00:09:36 --> 00:09:41 I mean, the groceries were just there, but I do not remember the moment-to-moment
00:09:41 --> 00:09:44 going through and doing what I just did for hours.
00:09:44 --> 00:09:49 Yeah and that's you know is disassociation where you're just your body goes
00:09:49 --> 00:09:53 into survival it does what it needs to do and then you get home and then you
00:09:53 --> 00:09:55 crash and burn because you just,
00:09:55 --> 00:10:00 did all this stuff when you probably shouldn't have been yeah it's so disorienting it's so.
00:10:01 --> 00:10:05 Disorienting and i remember my sister saying the same thing like she would she'd
00:10:05 --> 00:10:08 had trouble sleeping and she would get up in the middle of the night and go
00:10:08 --> 00:10:11 to winco it's it's what's when What is that?
00:10:12 --> 00:10:15 It's like this really cool grocery store that has like bulk bins.
00:10:16 --> 00:10:20 It's like a grocery store. Whoa, whoa. That has what? Bulk bins.
00:10:21 --> 00:10:25 Okay, so it's like a grocery store. It's only available in the western half
00:10:25 --> 00:10:28 of the country, I believe. Okay, I am from the East Coast.
00:10:28 --> 00:10:35 We have Costco here. We have, right. But it's a grocery store, but better.
00:10:36 --> 00:10:40 I'm trying to think of what is equivalent. There's not. There's not really an
00:10:40 --> 00:10:42 equivalent to it. All right. Now I'm intrigued. But they also have,
00:10:42 --> 00:10:44 like, bulk bins of, like,
00:10:44 --> 00:10:49 all the food you can imagine and so you can literally go fill up bags at cheaper
00:10:49 --> 00:10:54 rates and anyway so she's at this grocery store you know walmart's not open 24 7 anymore.
00:10:55 --> 00:10:58 No she said she would go to winco in the middle of
00:10:58 --> 00:11:01 the night and just meander through
00:11:01 --> 00:11:04 the the aisles yeah and she's
00:11:04 --> 00:11:07 like i would get home sometimes i would buy stuff sometimes i
00:11:07 --> 00:11:10 wouldn't and then i'd wake up you know i'd go to sleep and then i'd wake
00:11:10 --> 00:11:15 up and i'd be like oh i guess i went to winco last night yeah it
00:11:15 --> 00:11:18 was almost like she was taking ambien have you
00:11:18 --> 00:11:21 heard about that sleep shopping sleep walking
00:11:21 --> 00:11:27 sleep eating sleep naughty time yeah oh look at you that was a whole next level
00:11:27 --> 00:11:32 i didn't expect i swear we've talked about we have no i think we have yeah yeah
00:11:32 --> 00:11:36 yeah it's all coming back to me this is yes yes this is not the episode for
00:11:36 --> 00:11:41 it no no no no so all right well Well, here's my question here. I have many questions.
00:11:41 --> 00:11:50 So, you know, I think in my own case, it's like I irrationally probably expected
00:11:50 --> 00:11:54 people to recognize that I was in pain, but like.
00:11:55 --> 00:11:58 They can't see through me and they don't know what's inside my head.
00:11:59 --> 00:12:04 And yet you just kind of wish everybody knew so that they could acknowledge it.
00:12:05 --> 00:12:12 Do you think that part of loneliness comes like, because it's so isolating and
00:12:12 --> 00:12:18 lonely when you're like trapped in your little head and body with all of this pain and loss and grief.
00:12:19 --> 00:12:24 Do you think that loneliness comes from just wanting people to have the pain acknowledged?
00:12:25 --> 00:12:28 Like, I know it comes from that, but what are your thoughts about that?
00:12:28 --> 00:12:31 Like, where do you think all that pain comes from?
00:12:33 --> 00:12:39 Uniquely for me and my family, the loneliness comes from no other family has
00:12:39 --> 00:12:41 experienced this kind of loss. Yeah.
00:12:41 --> 00:12:44 Having lost five brothers to suicide. That's
00:12:44 --> 00:12:47 what I was just going to ask you dad to cancer i mean a lot
00:12:47 --> 00:12:51 many people have lost their dad to cancer many people know
00:12:51 --> 00:12:54 someone that have died by suicide but to our
00:12:54 --> 00:12:57 knowledge there is no other family that
00:12:57 --> 00:13:00 we are aware of that has lost five siblings in
00:13:00 --> 00:13:03 the same generation to suicide yeah and
00:13:03 --> 00:13:07 you lost five brothers yes and
00:13:07 --> 00:13:14 three of which occurred in a three-year period and so it's incredibly isolating
00:13:14 --> 00:13:20 And just knowing that nobody else knows what that pain feels like And we spend
00:13:20 --> 00:13:24 a lot of time together as a family during the initial loss,
00:13:25 --> 00:13:33 But because of how we were raised, we all kind of retreat back into a shell And just go it alone.
00:13:34 --> 00:13:38 Hey, it's Lisa Sugarman, co-host of The Survivors and founder of The Help Hub.
00:13:38 --> 00:13:42 If you're listening right now and you're not okay, if you're feeling overwhelmed,
00:13:43 --> 00:13:47 stuck, or like you're carrying more than you can handle, please know you don't
00:13:47 --> 00:13:48 have to go through it alone.
00:13:48 --> 00:13:55 You can call or text 988 or chat online at 988lifeline.org to connect with trained
00:13:55 --> 00:13:59 counselors like me who are there to listen and support you in the moment.
00:13:59 --> 00:14:04 Reaching out is a brave first step and you owe it to yourself because your life
00:14:04 --> 00:14:10 matters your story matters and help is always just three numbers away.
00:14:12 --> 00:14:22 Yeah, after the initial few weeks. Yeah, I think the moving on part is so deeply personal.
00:14:22 --> 00:14:29 Like, it's so interesting to me, kind of the timeline that people who are grieving
00:14:29 --> 00:14:32 follow, how subjective and unique it is.
00:14:33 --> 00:14:42 You know, you've got people who, you know, lose a spouse and they never have another companion.
00:14:42 --> 00:14:48 And then you've got people who do and are remarried within a year.
00:14:48 --> 00:14:54 Right. Or you meet someone immediately. And it's, you know, and there is no right or wrong.
00:14:54 --> 00:14:59 Like there is no there is no grief manual there.
00:14:59 --> 00:15:05 There is nothing like that that exists. And it's hard because,
00:15:05 --> 00:15:08 and I would imagine for you coming from such a
00:15:08 --> 00:15:13 big family who's experienced so much incredible loss that I'm sure you probably
00:15:13 --> 00:15:18 had family members who some were kind of emotionally incapacitated for much
00:15:18 --> 00:15:23 longer and some for a shorter period of time and people kind of getting back
00:15:23 --> 00:15:25 to their lives and moving on.
00:15:25 --> 00:15:27 And, you know, who knows, maybe
00:15:27 --> 00:15:31 being like being allowing themselves to be joyful or to celebrate things.
00:15:31 --> 00:15:35 And and it was that weird for you at all? Like, did that happen where in your
00:15:35 --> 00:15:38 family you had like you were maybe in the thick of it or somebody else was in
00:15:38 --> 00:15:42 the thick of it and somebody else wasn't? And did that cause conflict?
00:15:43 --> 00:15:51 I think we all. So those of us that actually dealt with it, we moved at pretty much a similar pace.
00:15:51 --> 00:15:58 OK. And then we had those that Buried their head in the sand Refused to confront
00:15:58 --> 00:16:01 that grief And I will Say that.
00:16:02 --> 00:16:06 They eventually imploded. Did they? Okay. Yeah.
00:16:06 --> 00:16:12 Refusing to face the past and refusing to face what hurts you.
00:16:12 --> 00:16:15 I can say for Brennan and Monroe, it did eat them alive.
00:16:15 --> 00:16:19 And they're the last to die by suicide. To die, yeah. Yeah, I remember.
00:16:20 --> 00:16:25 Others reverted to alcohol, drugs, to numb the pain.
00:16:26 --> 00:16:28 Yeah. And continue to do so.
00:16:29 --> 00:16:35 And so I've just, as many know, I've stepped away from my family and I've had to,
00:16:35 --> 00:16:39 I've had a little bit of interaction with my family in the last few weeks as
00:16:39 --> 00:16:44 one of my siblings has had some medical issues that have been rather concerning
00:16:44 --> 00:16:48 and has brought up some anticipatory grief.
00:16:48 --> 00:16:50 Oh, I don't even know this. Do I know this?
00:16:52 --> 00:16:56 That one of my siblings was pretty close to death? Yes, yes,
00:16:56 --> 00:16:57 I did know this. Yes, I did. Yes.
00:16:57 --> 00:17:03 Yeah, that's right. And so, after now having lost so many family members,
00:17:03 --> 00:17:08 and when somebody gets that close, it's anticipatory grief.
00:17:08 --> 00:17:15 Yeah. I was literally just braced and ready for any kind of word that had passed.
00:17:16 --> 00:17:20 And it's a really hard thing to walk through.
00:17:21 --> 00:17:26 And, excuse me, there's not many people that know what to do or say. Honestly, George...
00:17:27 --> 00:17:30 Doesn't either and we least george's mother just passed
00:17:30 --> 00:17:33 away a month ago i know she did i know and so it
00:17:33 --> 00:17:36 for us it's just like it's a never
00:17:36 --> 00:17:39 and it feels like there's it's just going to be never ending death for the rest
00:17:39 --> 00:17:46 of our lives yeah and and so i have gotten really good at just going it alone
00:17:46 --> 00:17:53 unfortunately yeah i think a lot of people do but i do know that i have to focus
00:17:53 --> 00:17:55 on like the small things, my kids,
00:17:56 --> 00:18:01 you know, I look forward to our conversations that we have here really mean
00:18:01 --> 00:18:02 a lot to me and they do help a lot.
00:18:02 --> 00:18:08 So I have to say thank you so much for listening, because without everyone listening,
00:18:08 --> 00:18:09 we wouldn't be able to do this.
00:18:09 --> 00:18:14 That's right. And this is powerful for me, too, to have these conversations.
00:18:15 --> 00:18:22 You know, we talked a lot about how nobody prepares us for how quickly the world
00:18:22 --> 00:18:29 moves on around us after we've lost somebody, you know, our life has changed forever.
00:18:29 --> 00:18:33 And then all of a sudden, people around you are talking about going on vacation
00:18:33 --> 00:18:35 and they're celebrating.
00:18:35 --> 00:18:39 It's a hard place to know how to fit in. Like you just said something that kind
00:18:39 --> 00:18:41 of resonated with me about how you go it alone.
00:18:42 --> 00:18:48 I really feel like grief is such an unbelievably isolating and solitary experience.
00:18:49 --> 00:18:53 Because even if you are experiencing it, like I've experienced this grief of
00:18:53 --> 00:19:00 my mother-in-law with my whole family, and yet I'm still so locked in my own grief about it.
00:19:02 --> 00:19:07 And everybody is so unique. And I have to always remind myself that,
00:19:09 --> 00:19:12 it's not that someone's being insensitive. It's that everybody deals with it
00:19:12 --> 00:19:17 in a different way, number one, and number two, the people on the outside who
00:19:17 --> 00:19:20 are going about their lives, we don't, you know, they don't even know us.
00:19:20 --> 00:19:24 They don't know what's going on under our hood, under the surface,
00:19:24 --> 00:19:26 because life just keeps going. And.
00:19:27 --> 00:19:31 You don't know what you don't know. I remember, I just had this weird memory
00:19:31 --> 00:19:35 come up while I was thinking about doing this show and having this conversation.
00:19:35 --> 00:19:38 I remember the day of my dad's funeral. So I lost my dad when I was 10.
00:19:40 --> 00:19:44 And I remember I was in my bedroom at the end of the hall. And we had literally
00:19:44 --> 00:19:46 just come home from the cemetery.
00:19:46 --> 00:19:49 And I kind of made a beeline to my room to be by myself.
00:19:51 --> 00:19:55 And I wasn't in there very long. And all of a sudden I heard arguing, which was very,
00:19:56 --> 00:20:00 startling because who would be arguing at my dad's funeral?
00:20:01 --> 00:20:05 And it was coming from our kitchen. So I kind of ran down the hall to see what was going on.
00:20:05 --> 00:20:09 And I saw my grandmother, this is my dad's whole side of the family.
00:20:09 --> 00:20:15 I saw they were in the kitchen in this crazy conversation about the family business.
00:20:15 --> 00:20:19 And they were arguing about money at my dad's funeral.
00:20:20 --> 00:20:26 Like, complete and total disregard for the fact that they were sitting in my
00:20:26 --> 00:20:30 kitchen, paying condolences on their family member who just died.
00:20:30 --> 00:20:35 And they're all bitching at each other and arguing. And I was 10 years old.
00:20:35 --> 00:20:39 And I remember like such a core memory. I remember yelling at them,
00:20:40 --> 00:20:47 like raising my voice to everyone and saying, you're being so disrespectful to my dad.
00:20:47 --> 00:20:50 How can you be talking about all of these things when
00:20:50 --> 00:20:53 we're all sitting here grieving and sad
00:20:53 --> 00:20:57 and we just buried my dad this
00:20:57 --> 00:21:00 morning and they like every single while
00:21:00 --> 00:21:04 my grandmothers my aunts and uncles they just froze and
00:21:04 --> 00:21:07 I don't really remember what happened after that because I
00:21:07 --> 00:21:09 pretty much blacked out but I mean that's
00:21:09 --> 00:21:12 incredible though I'm so glad that you did that oh I
00:21:12 --> 00:21:15 am too I mean my mother was just like my mother came
00:21:15 --> 00:21:19 in my bedroom after your mom was literally like she was like in her brain just
00:21:19 --> 00:21:25 like clapping so loud yep yep like snapping the me too me too and i the one
00:21:25 --> 00:21:28 thing i do remember after that is is kind of saying what i had to say and then
00:21:28 --> 00:21:31 running down the hall to my bedroom in tears because i was so offended that
00:21:31 --> 00:21:34 they were so unbelievably incensory like how can you not be.
00:21:35 --> 00:21:40 Completely grief stricken in this moment like you just came from his funeral what.
00:21:40 --> 00:21:44 What nerve you have to be talking about
00:21:44 --> 00:21:46 family business and arguing about it and like
00:21:46 --> 00:21:49 moving on like you had totally just moved on from the
00:21:49 --> 00:21:52 whole experience yep like okay that part's over my hands right
00:21:52 --> 00:21:55 and I remember my mom come like kind of
00:21:55 --> 00:21:58 following me down the hall into my bedroom and like you know kind
00:21:58 --> 00:22:01 of scoop me up and put her arms around me and was like
00:22:01 --> 00:22:06 I'm proud of you like that was they were so wrong to do that and and good for
00:22:06 --> 00:22:13 you for saying something but yeah just one crazy core memory of how horrible
00:22:13 --> 00:22:21 it can be when you're just a mess and grieving and lost and,
00:22:21 --> 00:22:23 people are just business as usual,
00:22:24 --> 00:22:26 just going about, you know, their everyday lives.
00:22:28 --> 00:22:33 You know, I remember feeling, especially when I found out, so for people who
00:22:33 --> 00:22:35 may not know, I just said I lost my dad when I was 10.
00:22:36 --> 00:22:39 I was told he died of a heart attack. He did not. I found out 35 years later
00:22:39 --> 00:22:42 that he had actually taken his life.
00:22:43 --> 00:22:46 And I found that out about 13 years ago. And when I found that out,
00:22:47 --> 00:22:54 it was a type of grief at a time in my life that I was completely unprepared for.
00:22:54 --> 00:22:56 I was married for 20 years. I had two kids.
00:22:57 --> 00:23:04 I was the same exact age that my father was when he died. It was just such a bizarre time for me.
00:23:04 --> 00:23:09 And I was, you talk about like going to the supermarket and doing a grocery
00:23:09 --> 00:23:11 run and then coming home and not having a clue that you just did it.
00:23:11 --> 00:23:17 I was like that for three years. I walked around. I was two totally different
00:23:17 --> 00:23:20 people. I was in the school system. I was teaching.
00:23:20 --> 00:23:23 I had teenage kids at home.
00:23:23 --> 00:23:28 And I was living like two completely separate lives. And.
00:23:30 --> 00:23:36 I mean, it really depleted me in ways that I, it took me years to process how
00:23:36 --> 00:23:41 much it depleted me because here I was living inside this like cocoon of grief
00:23:41 --> 00:23:46 and my whole world is shattered and I'm not saying anything.
00:23:46 --> 00:23:49 And you know what? I look back on that now. I'm actually having this realization
00:23:49 --> 00:23:50 right this second in real time.
00:23:51 --> 00:23:56 I didn't say anything for some real legitimate reasons, like my kids didn't know.
00:23:56 --> 00:24:01 I didn't want my kids to know the truth about my dad until I felt it was time to tell them.
00:24:01 --> 00:24:07 But I wish that I had been open more, or like earlier, had opened up.
00:24:08 --> 00:24:11 Earlier about it so that
00:24:11 --> 00:24:14 I didn't have to hide it so that I could have leaned on
00:24:14 --> 00:24:19 people because when I did finally come out and talk to people about it I mean
00:24:19 --> 00:24:25 most people were unbelievably supportive and kind and gracious and and and there
00:24:25 --> 00:24:30 for me but god that was so weird just like any little thing that I did any like
00:24:30 --> 00:24:32 get-togethers with people like I was pulling away from.
00:24:33 --> 00:24:36 Everybody and it was such a struggle to even like go to
00:24:36 --> 00:24:39 work every day and and be there in my own head with
00:24:39 --> 00:24:42 this whole real reality just under the
00:24:42 --> 00:24:45 surface it was it was a really hard time that was
00:24:45 --> 00:24:48 a really hard time yeah i can relate to that for sure
00:24:48 --> 00:24:52 yeah it's like you're living in alternate reality absolutely you know what i
00:24:52 --> 00:24:59 mean you wake up and you're just it's there but then you go about your day and
00:24:59 --> 00:25:03 you get home you know at the end of the day you realize how much energy it actually
00:25:03 --> 00:25:08 took just to exist and do what you needed to do that day. And then you get up and rinse and repeat.
00:25:08 --> 00:25:12 Yeah. And that burnout is so real. Yeah. Yeah.
00:25:13 --> 00:25:17 I think for me, I don't know if you feel this way. I feel like you probably do.
00:25:17 --> 00:25:21 One of the most important things I think that grief has taught me is that we
00:25:21 --> 00:25:25 really just never, ever know what somebody else is carrying.
00:25:26 --> 00:25:30 Ever. I mean, smoke and mirrors, that's a real thing.
00:25:30 --> 00:25:35 Optics, people playing the part, being performative, saying and doing the things
00:25:35 --> 00:25:40 that they think that they should, even when things are completely different than they appear to be.
00:25:41 --> 00:25:47 I have a lot more compassion for people. I think you said that either earlier
00:25:47 --> 00:25:51 when you and I were talking offline, that you just like you sit next to somebody
00:25:51 --> 00:25:54 on the train or on a plane or standing in the grocery line,
00:25:54 --> 00:25:58 and you just have absolutely no idea what somebody else is going through.
00:25:58 --> 00:26:03 And my own grief has given me so much more empathy for the people in the world around me.
00:26:04 --> 00:26:08 Mm-hmm. For sure. I don't assume anything anymore about anybody.
00:26:09 --> 00:26:11 Right. getting upset when somebody cuts you off
00:26:11 --> 00:26:14 or whatever i mean how many times do we did we drive
00:26:14 --> 00:26:17 around when we probably shouldn't have been because we were on
00:26:17 --> 00:26:20 autopilot and you know or somebody that
00:26:20 --> 00:26:23 looks a mess in the grocery store i remember going to my kids
00:26:23 --> 00:26:26 baseball and softball games i had holes in my pants i
00:26:26 --> 00:26:29 had holes in my shirt because i was just wearing these grubby nothings
00:26:29 --> 00:26:32 and you know and but
00:26:32 --> 00:26:35 i was the important thing was that i was there i was showing up
00:26:35 --> 00:26:38 for my kids yeah and so i'm just like you
00:26:38 --> 00:26:41 know what if you see somebody out in public and they look like
00:26:41 --> 00:26:44 they don't give a crap probably they're
00:26:44 --> 00:26:47 grieving yeah yeah or dealing with something
00:26:47 --> 00:26:51 pretty damn heavy yeah because their appearance is the last thing that they're
00:26:51 --> 00:26:57 worried about yeah yeah you're right you're right so to just kind of tie this
00:26:57 --> 00:27:06 up and and wrap it up at the end And if you're listening and you're grieving in real time right now,
00:27:06 --> 00:27:11 and it doesn't just necessarily mean like a fresh loss, it could be months,
00:27:11 --> 00:27:13 like we said, grief is cyclical, you can be...
00:27:14 --> 00:27:17 You can be actively grieving years after you've lost somebody.
00:27:17 --> 00:27:22 But if you're carrying something really, really heavy right now and nobody around you can see it,
00:27:22 --> 00:27:28 this is just a reminder from us to you that we just want you to know that you're
00:27:28 --> 00:27:30 not alone. Like, we see you.
00:27:30 --> 00:27:34 Please reach out to us. If you just want someone to acknowledge what you're
00:27:34 --> 00:27:37 dealing with and carrying, send us a DM. We're all over socials.
00:27:38 --> 00:27:43 Our handles and our contacts are all in the show notes. You know,
00:27:43 --> 00:27:46 the fact that people cannot see your pain does not mean that your pain isn't real.
00:27:46 --> 00:27:50 It's real and we see that. And, you know, the fact that the world keeps spinning
00:27:50 --> 00:27:55 doesn't mean that your loss doesn't matter or that your pain's not valid.
00:27:56 --> 00:28:01 And you're not doing grieving wrong. You're doing exactly what you need to be doing.
00:28:01 --> 00:28:10 It just means you're human. So just wanted to remind people that we see you and you're not alone.
00:28:10 --> 00:28:13 You're absolutely not alone. Be kind to yourself in the grieving process.
00:28:13 --> 00:28:16 It's one of the hardest things you will ever do in your life.
00:28:16 --> 00:28:18 And please be kind to yourself.
00:28:18 --> 00:28:20 That is the perfect place to end.
00:28:21 --> 00:28:24 I'm glad we had this conversation. I'm glad we have every conversation.
00:28:24 --> 00:28:26 Me too. If I'm being honest.
00:28:26 --> 00:28:29 Friends, thanks for listening. If you hung in this long, we'll see you next
00:28:29 --> 00:28:34 week. In the meantime, you know the drill. Keep surviving. See you soon.
00:28:35 --> 00:28:38 Thanks so much for listening and for being part of the Survivors community.
00:28:39 --> 00:28:43 No matter where you are in your story you're not alone and you're definitely
00:28:43 --> 00:28:48 not broken healing takes time and it looks different for everyone the fact that
00:28:48 --> 00:28:52 you're still here and still trying means you're already doing the hard work,
00:28:52 --> 00:28:56 If something in today's conversation resonated with you, please share it with
00:28:56 --> 00:28:58 someone who might need to hear it too.
00:28:58 --> 00:29:03 That's how we keep these conversations going and remind each other that there's always hope.
00:29:04 --> 00:29:06 And if you or someone you know is struggling, please remember,
00:29:07 --> 00:29:08 help is always out there.
00:29:08 --> 00:29:13 You can call or text 988 anytime to reach a trained crisis counselor like me.
00:29:13 --> 00:29:16 And for more mental health resources, tools, treatment options,
00:29:16 --> 00:29:20 and content to support your mental health, visit thehelphub.co.
00:29:21 --> 00:29:24 We're so grateful you're part of the Survivors family, and we'll be back next
00:29:24 --> 00:29:28 week with another honest conversation about life after the hardest things.
00:29:28 --> 00:29:32 Until then, take care of yourself and your people, and keep surviving.