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🎧 Episode Summary
In this raw and resonant episode, Dr. Janine Ellenberger opens up about her personal experiences as a parent of a child with autism and her professional mission to make mental health support more accessible. Lisa, also a suicide loss survivor, and Gretchen, a suicide attempt survivor, guide the conversation toward actionable insights on recognizing the signs of crisis, advocating for mental health in the workplace, and how technology like Calmerry helps meet people where they are—emotionally and digitally.
💡 Lessons Learned
- Asking deeper, open-ended questions can be the first step toward saving someone in crisis.
- Access to therapy—especially in real time—is critical and possible through platforms like Calmerry.
- Matching with the right therapist can take time, but the right fit is transformative.
- Mental health care is never one-size-fits-all—there are multiple modalities and pathways to healing.
00:00 – Trigger Warning & Introduction
02:30 – Meet Dr. Janine Ellenberger
05:10 – Parenting a Child with Autism & Suicide Risk
12:00 – Why Access to Timely Therapy Matters
18:45 – Calmerry’s Mission & Digital Mental Health Tools
24:00 – Therapy Options: Tapping, Journaling & Matching
30:00 – Breaking Generational Stigma Around Mental Health
35:50 – Supporting Colleagues & Friends in Crisis
40:15 – Workplace Mental Health & EAPs Explained
46:00 – Final Thoughts & Next Week’s Teaser
📚 Resources for Mental Health & Support
🔹 The Survivors Podcast Website – https://thesurvivors.net/
🔹 The HelpHUB™ – Mental health resources, tools, and support networks – https://www.thehelphub.co/
🔹 Schoser Talent and Wellness Solutions – Mental wellness coaching & support – https://schosersolutions.com/
🔹 Calmerry – Affordable & accessible online therapy – https://calmerry.com/
🔹 Sh!t That Goes On In Our Heads – A raw, award-winning mental health podcast – https://goesoninourheads.net/
📲 Follow & Connect With Us
📷 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/the_survivors_podcast
🔗 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-survivors-podcast
🎥 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheSurvivorsPodcastChannel
#TheSurvivorsPodcast #EndTheStigma #MentalHealthMatters #SuicidePrevention #YouAreNotAlone #BreakTheSilence #GriefSupport #988Lifeline #SurvivorStories #HealingTogether #PodMatch #MentalHealth #SuicideAwareness #Podcast #Community #Hope #Grief #Stigma #MentalIllness #Support #LisaSugarman #GretchenSchoser #JanineEllenberger
🎙️ See You Next Week! Stay strong, keep going, and remember: You are enough. 💜
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The Survivors is brought to you by our friends at Calmerry.
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This podcast mentions suicide, mental illness, grief and loss and may be triggering for some
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listeners.
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So please take care of your well-being by pausing or skipping any sections that feel
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uncomfortable to you.
00:00:15
And if you or someone you know is struggling, please call 988 for support.
00:00:22
Hey friends, we are in the middle of what's already begun, begun as a beautiful conversation
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with our very first guest of all time here on the Survivors.
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We have got someone very special to join our conversation today.
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This is Janine Ellenberger.
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She is a seasoned physician and entrepreneur, a health executive with over 20 years of experience
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in digital health, clinical practice and leadership.
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She is also the co-founder of Behavidance.
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It's a digital phenotyping company for mental health conditions.
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She is the chief medical officer of Calmerry.
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She plays a pivotal role in transforming mental health care through innovation, expanding
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services through strategic partnerships and introducing additional revenue streams.
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She's also responsible for world-class virtual therapy training programs and improving
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therapist-client matching to ensure personalized care for every individual.
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And this remarkable human being is here to join our conversation on the Survivors.
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We have already talked at length about some of the issues that we're going to continue
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on in this podcast to dig into.
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Janine, it's a pleasure to have you.
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Yes, absolutely.
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Pudger, so honored.
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Lisa and Gretchen, it's my honor to be here today with both of you and having learned your
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journeys as to how you got to this podcast.
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I am excited and really looking forward to our conversation today.
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Thank you.
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So I wanted to find out from you.
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I know you're a parent, right?
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And as a parent, how do you navigate mental health with your kin?
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That's a very pertinent question to me, Gretchen.
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I have three children.
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My eldest has autism.
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And he, as I was explaining earlier to you, as I was reading and preparing for this podcast
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today, I started looking at the warning signs of suicide.
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And it sort of hit me like a wet fish in the face.
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You know, I'm my son right now.
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He takes all of these boxes and it's frightening because this has been an ongoing conversation
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with him.
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And I've actually realized I've made some mistakes to be honest with you because when I was looking
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at you, you know, how should you respond?
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You should not say things like you're overreacting or just be positive or everything's going to
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be okay because I'm inclined to always say, oh, everything's going to be okay.
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Don't you worry.
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We'll get through this.
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Some of the things that I've started practicing the last sort of week or two is saying things
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like you're not alone.
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I'm here to listen.
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I'm here to support.
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Tell me.
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Not dismissing.
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It's hard.
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It's so hard.
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It's hard.
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It's so hard.
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It's so hard.
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As a parent, I have two daughters.
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We were chatting about this offline.
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I have two daughters who have both had challenges with mental illness and some depression
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and anxiety.
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And we're not given all the answers as parents.
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As soon as we're handed these little children, we're looked at as the ones who will have all
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the answers and the ones who can guide and who can educate and who can support.
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And we're learning from scratch as we go to.
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I mean, I can look back at my own parenting journey and missing signs that my daughter had
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anxiety thinking they were just kind of, you know, angsty teenage girl issues.
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And it's hard.
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We were not all knowing.
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It's difficult.
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So, like, my other question would be, is like, when you're talking to her, do you ask
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more probing questions?
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Like, questions that you hope, or you'll get an answer for?
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I do.
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I ask questions like, what do you think could be contributing to the way you feel right
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now?
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How do you think we can solve this?
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But what's interesting when you get to a person, I don't know if this is your experience,
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but when you get to that point, when I say, you know, how can we remedy this?
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Let's put a plan together.
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This is sense of absolute hopelessness and hopelessness.
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I can't.
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It doesn't.
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So, nothing will make a difference.
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That's the hard part, I think, really.
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And then you combine this with, as we said, you know, that young brain, which is a lot
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of impulsivity, and you just, you just hope that somehow you're going to always be there
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so we can cross the hump and get to the other side where that attempt doesn't happen.
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For me, you know, because I'm older, right?
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Like when I did live suicide attempt, I was 59 and a half.
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I'm a complete extrovert.
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So when people saw me on the outside, I looked completely fine.
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I was shown up to work every day.
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I was, you know, helping my customers.
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I was doing things at home.
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But one of the things I found as I was writing my book is that people didn't do, so they
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didn't ask me more probing questions, right?
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They saw me for what I was at Shades Valley.
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I wish now that they would have asked for probing questions, because they would all ask me,
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like, so how you doing?
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And I'm like, oh, I'm living the dream.
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In the back of my head, I'm like, I'm not living the dream.
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I am just done.
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I'm like, half out.
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And so, like, a more open-ended question of like, okay, something I would have had to
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answer a little bit more truthfully.
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And I think those are things where we need to incorporate with these conversations.
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Because more, you know.
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Yeah.
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But you know what it is?
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I think people are afraid.
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People want desperately to be able to help and to support.
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But I think people are terrified at their core.
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What do I do when the person I'm asking actually comes back to me and says, I'm struggling.
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I don't want to live.
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I'm having a hard time.
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Then it's like, well, where do you go?
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Especially if you're not a trained clinician or a counselor or have the background to help.
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So I mean, I think this is a perfect place to jump straight into the conversation of what
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should friends or colleagues, if you're at work, be aware of when it comes to recognizing
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the signs of distress, whether it's your child at home or it's a colleague at work, you
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know, things that could ultimately lead to suicidal ideation.
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You know, what should we all be looking for?
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It agrees you are 100% and that needs to extend from family members to friends to the teachers
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to your colleagues at work.
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And I am, it's a QPR, you know, question, persuade, refer.
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So ask the deep probing questions and then see if you can get a little bit more insight
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to persuade them to go and see the help that is desperately needed.
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I don't think someone can you can stop a suicide attempt, but that's almost just delaying
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it as opposed to getting them to refer to a place where there is help and making that
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help accessible.
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And I think that's where the new digital age comes in because absolutely I know was going
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to my son, we were younger, you go and have an incident and then you call the psychologists
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of the psychiatrist and they'll see you in six weeks time and you still have to deal with
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that for six weeks and you can call Crisis line.
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I mean, you will get quicker access, but still you want to have access to somebody within
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the next 24 hours.
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You want to feel like there's a lifeline at the end and there's hope because what that
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brings is hope and hope is so important.
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So I think having access to digital tools, apps is so important now because it can make
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a quick difference.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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100%.
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So like the day after I called the days that I called by needing that the very next call was
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to get a therapist and they were able to see me that the next day.
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That's excellent.
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But you know, at least when I were joking earlier is that what I met my therapist, like I had
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to screen date my therapist, right?
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Like the first one didn't work out so well.
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By the time number three came around, we're good, been doing it for two years.
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But you know, you're right, access is a big thing.
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And now, you know, we're fortunate enough that we have those digital tools where we didn't
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have that, you know, 20 years ago.
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So only 10 years ago, yeah.
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One of the reasons I sort of co-founded Behavidance and also Calmerry was precisely because
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of that to get my son's diagnosis, I joke not when I say it took 14 psychologists and nine
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psychiatrists.
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And it was it was hit and was hit and was hit and was and for him to find the person
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that he felt comfortable enough speaking to and then also just to get the right diagnosis.
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Yeah, there's so many who would.
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There's so many moving parts that people just don't realize it's not as simple as just
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reaching out for help.
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That's a big part of it.
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That's certainly where it all starts and where it all has to start.
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But then there's so many unfortunate barriers that are in place, especially nowadays, especially
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you think about what was happening during the pandemic and how the entire world went
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from being an in-person culture, a face-to-face culture to all of a sudden, you know, a Zoom
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culture or a screen culture and you couldn't just, yeah, and you couldn't you couldn't find
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a therapist who could take you to save your life.
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And in some cases, in a lot of cases, they needed to save your life and you couldn't access
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them.
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It is just it is beautiful to see how technology can play in our favor now with platforms
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like Calmerry and others who are offering kind of these Ola-Card services to people who
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maybe either a don't have healthcare coverage that enables them to support their mental
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health or they can't find someone, you know, maybe in their local area.
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It just I think has broadened the scope of what people can use.
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And the matching and matching you to a therapist that I think you hit so many important points
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that you know, the insurance aspect of it.
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So first you have to go and find somebody in your network, in your area that is able to
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see you.
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That is that that requires executive self-management and desire, which in a lot of time people in
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the state like us do not have that.
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They don't have that ability to go into the research and so you generally need somebody
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to help you do that.
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The fact that you can now log on to for example Colmory and immediately get matched with
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the therapist and that therapist will text you back.
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So you might not immediately get that video call but at least you have that connection.
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And you can lead with I'm in a dark space right now and that therapist will come back and say
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right, let's address this and let's put you on or let's go here or help guide you to be
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that executive management for you, which is I think so deeply powerful in helping prevent
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suicide.
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I'm not scared.
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I'm 100% like in the early days like I would text my therapist like 20 times a day because
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I just had like this this overflow of emotions going on and like yes I could call 988 back
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but I had a therapist right and I just have to plug the 988 because they were so compassionate.
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I truly alive today because of that but I loved the digital tools that I have at my disposal
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now that I didn't know about prior to that attempt right.
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I have like calming applications I have you know journaling applications things that help
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me take stuff that's in here and give it to somebody else to deal with like I'm still
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dealing with it but it's not sitting up here in him.
00:13:07
Take a step to your mental well being with CalMary trusted online therapy platform that
00:13:11
supports you through life's challenges connect with licensed therapists and reap the
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benefits of traditional therapy enhanced with digital tools whenever you need a visit
00:13:19
calmery.com to get started.
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But it's a great thing.
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You're purging it.
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It's like purging a radiator.
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You you know there's that that extreme build up and oftentimes people just don't know
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what to do with that massive overflow of emotion and that's why things like mindfulness practices
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and even you know five four three two one guiding you know re regulation exercises and journals
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and journaling they're also helpful.
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Journaling is so powerful as well because you are taking it out of your head and you're seeing
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it there and I think journaling calmery has a journaling aspect to the app as well.
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It's such something I actually learned through my daughter because I've journaled through
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my life but she journals in a very dedicated fashion every single day.
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She said to my husband the other day he was renting off about something like you know
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dad you would really benefit from journaling now my husband's nearly 60 and he looked at
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me and said what but because he wants to please his daughter he's now taken this to heart
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and is got himself a journal I think it's never too late is what that is what that says
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it's funny that you should say that because so I'm 56 years old my mother is 86 years old
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yeah and and my mother so part of my story of being a suicide loss survivor one of the
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losses that I've experienced was the loss of my father and my father passed away when
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I was 10 years old the story that I was told was that he had thank you that that he died
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of a heart attack.
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My mother chose in that moment to keep the secret of his suicide from me because as a
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10 year old child I was learning that my father had taken his life at 10 years old it would
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have derailed me knowing that he was gone was bad enough she wanted to shield me from that
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so she held that secret for 35 years my mother there was no therapist involved my mother
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didn't share with a living soul that yeah out just out just one word for it and ultimately
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it has of course come out about 10 years ago which has been a beautiful thing because
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now we talk about it very freely and openly we've been in kind of an almost 11 year long
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extended conversation about it which has been beautiful but the point I'm trying to make
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is that I started seeing a therapist again after a 30 year break and it's been the most
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wonderful experience that I the most wonderful gift I've given myself in a very very long
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time and now my mother is actually encouraged to start potentially seeing my therapist she
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has had the opportunity to meet my therapist and now she's considering for the very first
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time in her life at the age of 86 being able to talk to someone who's like her own dedicated
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mental health provider to offload all of those things that maybe she and I haven't gotten
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around to talking about yet or aspects of it that maybe a therapist could flush out so
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there's just never too late it's never too late and well done my dad is close to 80 and
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he has cancer and he's getting to that point where and he's suffered from depression I
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I come from a long family history of mental health conditions my dad was the person very very
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young age and I wish as to he was always in hospital for depression he was always being treated
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for the most amazing man I have to tell you delightful gentle character at the age of 70
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80s now started finally to go for therapy and for so much happier just like that so but it's
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taken him a very long time so that resistance is often there you know even though people
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are in a dark space even though they are striking they still has they still the stigma attached
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to therapy and going for therapy and getting yourself to therapy which I think having these
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apps or digital tools or a tele therapy available through an app and help sort of alleviate that
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a little bit because you can do it all in the privacy of your own home if you need to
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you can and you you look no further than having an option to text I mean I'm on the Trevor
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lifeline which is a traditional pick up the phone and call and speak to someone we also
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have a texting platform much like the crisis text line that just gives people options
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it's just a little bit of a buffer that someone who may not be feeling fully comfortable
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sitting down person to person face to face yet and gives them another option and you know
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I think sure with technology we all know that you know where there is so much good there
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is also so much that's unfortunately negative about it but this what we're talking about
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right now this is one of the absolute most positive benefits of of having the technology
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that we have because it caters to everybody whenever their unique needs may be it allows someone
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to find what works for them and you know to kind of cultivate an environment that makes
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them want to reach out for help and want to share what's going on and get that support
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very quickly.
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I just think like in today's world that you know having that green is super helpful to
00:18:37
people right like everything is crazy right now.
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So crazy.
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When I mean statement it's just crazy but having that at their disposal whether they're
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at work or at home you're out of bus you know you're walking you're jogging having that
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available to you is so amazing and I just I love the fact that you know we have programs
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like call ring we have you know mindful of that's apps and things like that and that one there's
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not one kind of therapy that fixes everybody right there's so many different therapies out
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there I mean I've dabbled on a few like I do tapping therapy too when I'm super stressed
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out of our anxious I've done some energy therapy just know that there's different kinds
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of therapies because you may not be you may not feel comfortable doing person to person
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again it was hard for me to yeah it's hard for a lot of people but we have options so many
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options out there and I my hope is is that we're able to save people's lives because people
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you know I just want them to know that you're not when you're wanted and you're needed in
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this world and no matter what demons are what the demons in your head are saying they're
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not true and that's something I had to want for my health it seemed a lot two years to
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and a half years and a therapy now and I still know it's therapy like twice a month so important
00:20:16
because one can slip back into those I tell my son he's got ants in his head automated
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negative thoughts and these ants just keep and you know what ants are like they are hyper
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energetic they go go go and they expand their population so he's got all these ants is going
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round and round and round and round in his head and sometimes you have to squash those
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ants it's the only way to get your your your your space and your your your brain back you
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have to squash the ants and it's so difficult because they're automated those negative thoughts
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feed on each other and exactly what you said great and there are different therapies of
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work for different people you know some people are receptive to CBT some need DBT some
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need to start with some hypnosis before or start with a tapping just to regulate the
00:21:00
parasympathetic and sympathetic nervous systems before you then move on into and finding
00:21:05
that pathway and finding that companion therapist you can help guide you through it is
00:21:12
invaluable and so important so you have that initial crisis management and then you have
00:21:17
the path going forward where you both yours it all supports system around you and you
00:21:21
have different things for different times I have a little bubble I love it and I don't
00:21:28
want to get rid of my bubble it's you know it's funny it's funny but sad at the same
00:21:34
time so in the first time in 45 years I actually don't have often church because it's expensive
00:21:42
right you know you plan your own health insurance is expensive so having resources as
00:21:50
able like your phone or things like that you know a lot of programs have sliding scale
00:21:57
and being able to see that but there's a ton of free stuff out there too and taking the
00:22:02
time to talk to your friends right like I do a Sunday check in with all my friends whether
00:22:07
they're introverts or extra roots or whatever I check in with my voice like people that
00:22:12
their connection helps and you know what's again asking the questions right I ask my question
00:22:18
they know they have to respond to that's an art that's an art and I love the Sunday checking
00:22:23
because you always have to put that in your calendar it's something is written down it's
00:22:27
an appointment you can't miss it and it's and you probably find that you the Sunday
00:22:33
checking serves you just as much as it serves then because you're giving and when you give
00:22:37
your dopamine and serotonin I elevate it and you feel better and then so important to the
00:22:44
healing process and you know when I think of like the workplaces right now because I guess
00:22:50
I have the world's a scary place right now like what do workplaces do help assist their
00:22:58
employees you know it's I think a lot of work spaces are looking at these EAP programs
00:23:06
employee assistant programs particularly for the mental health space and offering them for free
00:23:10
or to join for example a company like Calmering give them two to three sessions over a course of a
00:23:17
year that they would have access to when they are feeling that they needed and I think a lot of
00:23:22
companies are doing that now because they're realizing that if their employees mental wellness is
00:23:27
in a good space the company's productivity is so much better so for them it serves the bottom line
00:23:34
but actually it does serve the whole employee morale and well-being and I think it's incredibly
00:23:40
important for for employees to have access to that in the workplace because work is stressful
00:23:46
and it's a doggy dog world out there right now so people feel vulnerable at work they don't know if
00:23:51
they have security in their job so if you have any issues that just compounds it you know if you
00:23:56
look at the causes of of why do people commit suicide you've got the biological or medical causes
00:24:02
you've got the underlying conditions like bipolar depression PTSD schizophrenia whatever and then
00:24:07
you have the environment and social and work is a huge we spend so much time if not more I think
00:24:14
the way Americans work we've probably spend two-thirds of our time working and yeah and so I think
00:24:20
employee benefits is or assistance programs is is incredibly important and then I think more than
00:24:27
that as well some education from HR to everybody and you can be somebody that assists with that
00:24:35
QPR question persuade refer if your friend looks if you know to somebody withdrawing if you know
00:24:41
to somebody and great I hear you about being in an extrovert because I um I know people and
00:24:48
actually my son is an extrovert when he wants to be like he's just great he's a life and soul of
00:24:53
the party but when they withdraw that association and detachment being aware being alert and then
00:24:59
being interested in caring enough to go and ask those propian questions and they're persuading
00:25:04
them to go and seek help and a knowing way to refer them 988 as you said or to the EAP program is
00:25:11
and if we all just had this knowledge the world would be so much better oh so much better so I
00:25:17
can have a question about the EAP program because I've heard this a couple of times I should think
00:25:22
of something on our heads is that employees are afraid to contact the EAPs because they don't want
00:25:29
their employers to know they don't know they're not supposed to know okay all right it is confidential
00:25:35
and so they will buy a book of vouchers for example just to put it in a very simple understandable
00:25:45
way and the company will get a hundred vouchers and that will give a free therapy session to each
00:25:51
person and basically they'll just hand out the vouchers to whoever needs it but it will come
00:25:57
through the fact that you can go and actually pull a voucher yourself without anybody knowing
00:26:02
there was you they pulled it so it's a box of vouchers and you just go and pull one out it's not
00:26:06
quite as simple as that but it is meant to be as private and that's great to know yes so nobody knows
00:26:16
good that's good to know but actually even let's let's take it one step back and I know I'm not allowed
00:26:22
to curse on the show we encourage it I'm the only one as long as it's not Gretchen I let anyone
00:26:30
else curse why the hell you know there she is they care if she have if they have they should be
00:26:36
there to support it should not affect that employees employees status at all we all go through
00:26:43
should sometimes that's right to be supported and we're entitled to that support
00:26:48
1000 percent so this is actually gonna be a two-part episode so we we have more to the story
00:26:57
coming up next week thanks for joining us on the survivors remember no matter how tough things
00:27:04
feel you are enough and the world needs you just the way you are you're not alone in this journey
00:27:09
there's a community here and every step forward counts we're so grateful you took the time to listen
00:27:15
and we hope they'll take one day at a time just know there's always more right ahead
00:27:19
thanks for being here friends just remember help is out there in so many different places
00:27:26
so if you or someone you know is struggling please call 988 and a trained crisis counselor like me
00:27:31
will be there to help you can also find an inclusive and comprehensive directory of mental
00:27:36
health resources tools and content at the help hub dot-co just remember that health is always just a
00:27:42
call or a click away we'll catch you next week in the meantime keep surviving