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📝 Episode Summary
In a profoundly raw and moving conversation, Lisa and Gretchen dive into the stigma of suicide and the life-changing strength of finding — or building — community. They discuss their healing journeys, from the silence and shame of mental health struggles to the breakthroughs that come with vulnerability and shared space. Whether it's a support group, a therapy session, or a circle of close friends, this episode reminds us that we don’t have to walk through the most challenging moments alone.
💡 Lessons Learned
- Community is a lifeline: Having a group — even a small one — makes navigating grief and mental health more bearable.
- Vulnerability is powerful: Telling your story can unlock someone else’s pain and start their healing.
- There’s no “right” way to engage: Whether you speak up or listen, being part of a community matters.
- Help is always within reach: Therapy, crisis lines, and online support can meet you where you are — even from home.
0:00 – Intro & Trigger Warning
1:00 – Why Community Matters
5:30 – Gretchen’s Story of Survival
9:40 – Therapy, Friends, & Finding Support
14:00 – Creating Safe Spaces to Share
18:00 – Lisa’s Journey: Loss, Silence & the Breakthrough
23:00 – Survivor Stories & the Ripple of Openness
28:00 – Virtual Groups & the Power of Showing Up
35:00 – Actionable Ways to Build or Find Community
40:00 – Final Reflections & Encouragement
📚 Resources for Mental Health & Support
🔹 The Survivors Podcast Website – https://thesurvivors.net/
🔹 The HelpHUB™ – Mental health resources, tools, and support networks – https://www.thehelphub.co/
🔹 Schoser Talent and Wellness Solutions – Mental wellness coaching & support – https://schosersolutions.com/
🔹 Calmerry – Affordable & accessible online therapy – https://calmerry.com/
🔹 Sh!t That Goes On In Our Heads – A raw, award-winning mental health podcast – https://goesoninourheads.net/
📲 Follow & Connect With Us
📷 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/the_survivors_podcast
🔗 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-survivors-podcast
🎥 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheSurvivorsPodcastChannel
🎙️ See You Next Week! Stay strong, keep going, and remember: You are enough. 💜
#TheSurvivorsPodcast #EndTheStigma #MentalHealthMatters #SuicidePrevention #YouAreNotAlone #BreakTheSilence #GriefSupport #988Lifeline #SurvivorStories #HealingTogether #PodMatch #MentalHealth #SuicideAwareness #Podcast #Community #Hope #Grief #Stigma #MentalIllness #Support #LisaSugarman #GretchenSchoser
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[MUSIC]
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The Survivors is brought to you by our friends at CalMori.
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This podcast mentions suicide, mental illness,
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grief and loss, and maybe triggering for some listeners.
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So please take care of your well-being by
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pausing or skipping any sections that feel uncomfortable to you.
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And if you or someone you know is struggling,
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please call 988 for supporting.
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[MUSIC]
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So this whole idea of creating a community,
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like you and I are most excited about that part of what we get to do.
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I mean, there's the part of getting on the podcast every week
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and talking about everything that we need to talk about.
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But then there's this other part that just comes naturally.
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It's a byproduct of all this conversation.
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And that's the community part.
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And that's the part I am so excited about.
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You and I both know the importance of having a community.
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And I don't feel like there is necessarily a big survivor community.
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What do you agree with that?
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>> Yeah, 100% because so many people are still fearful of the stigma around suicide.
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You know, nobody wants to talk about it.
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It's always been that very hush, hush topic.
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And that's why we're here because we do need to bring it out to the open.
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And we need to reduce the stigma.
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And we need to help change the world because nobody really knows
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what's going on in somebody's head.
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Nobody.
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And being an attempt survivor, I for sure can say,
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I didn't know what was going on.
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But if I'd had a community or a resource,
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I think things would have been a lot easier.
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And I probably could have opened up a lot sooner.
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>> Yeah. I mean, in your case, you had panic attacks.
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You had stuff happening in your head and in your heart
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that you just couldn't identify.
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You didn't know.
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You couldn't put words to it, right?
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Is that pretty accurate?
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>> Yeah. >> 100%.
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I couldn't find my voice for right footing
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because I didn't understand what was going on.
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And that must have been terrifying for you.
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I couldn't tell anybody because I didn't know what was going on.
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And at the time I was 59 and a half, but my entire life,
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I'd been told we don't talk about mental health.
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And at that time, I didn't even know that's what it was.
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I knew I was done.
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I was done.
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I couldn't take on one more thing or one more problem
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because I wasn't dealing with my own stuff.
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>> Yeah. And it's so much easier to deal with our own stuff
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when we're not alone dealing with it.
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When you've got someone, whether it's, you know,
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a community comes in so many different forms.
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When we think community, we think, or at least I think,
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like big, global, massive community of people,
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it doesn't necessarily have to be that.
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Community can be a small group,
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can be a virtual group, can be some kind of support group,
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meeting group.
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It can be just a community of your therapists or counselors
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or family and friends.
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It takes on so many different forms,
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but once you have that outlet,
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and you can take those thought loops
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that are kind of replaying over and over in your own head
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and you let them out, what that does,
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the way that connects you to the world around you,
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to the issues you're dealing with,
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to the other people who are experiencing the same things,
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that's the change agent.
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That's the secret sauce, I think.
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>> I think that community is so vital,
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especially nowadays, we're also scattered.
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And I think that my community is like my Friday night click,
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that I have with my wife and our friend.
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And to me, that's community.
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Reaching out to my Instagram community,
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reaching out to my LinkedIn community.
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Every time I talk about my story,
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I gain one new friend or I gain one new ally.
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And having that makes it so much easier to talk about life stuff,
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because therapists are great,
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but if you also have one good close friend
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that you can hear your shit out on,
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sometimes that really helps because they know you,
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the nice thing about a therapist is they're a third party,
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and you don't get that angst from,
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sometimes where you get from family and friends.
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>> Yeah, well, they're unbiased.
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They're so unbiased.
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>> Right.
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>> And non-judgmental, and they're holding space
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for us in a different way,
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completely different way than I think the people
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who know us best will hold space,
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because the people who know us best
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are also the ones who we're gonna interject.
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They're the ones who are gonna have opinions
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or have perspectives, which in some ways is really good,
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but in some ways maybe isn't so good
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because you need that unbiased opinion.
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And think of how beneficial it's been just in my own life.
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Ever since I started opening up,
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it's been 11 years now since I learned the truth
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about my father's suicide.
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And for anyone who's just tuning in,
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G and I shared our stories in episodes two and three.
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If you don't know our stories,
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G is an attempt survivor,
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and I'm a three time survivor of suicide loss.
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I didn't know my dad died by suicide for 35 years.
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And I didn't start sharing that truth right away.
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It took years for me to even get to the point
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where I told my kids or I told my extended family.
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And it was a game changer for me
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when I ultimately made that decision
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to start sharing the truth.
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And then it was like the whole world opened up.
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And all of a sudden you hear,
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"I had experience with that,
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or I lost someone to suicide."
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I mean, my story is a little bit unique
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because of the secretive part of it,
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but all of a sudden people come out of the woodwork
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and they want to connect with you and they want to bond with you.
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And all of a sudden you're learning
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what other people are saying and doing
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and where other people are seeking out support.
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And for me, I don't know, that was like the button.
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Once I flipped that switch,
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everything started to change for me.
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And I think the load that I was carrying in my own head
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just somehow got a little bit lighter.
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- That's really where community comes in
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because it's a group of like individuals
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that are going through the same thing.
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And maybe they have different tips, different tricks
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to help deal with that.
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Really, I just gonna call it what it is
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that's sitting our head, right?
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- Yeah. - Yeah.
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- Because sometimes our spouses
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are significant others don't quite understand
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what you're going through
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because they haven't been there themselves.
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But growing a community around people
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that are either suicide attempt survivors
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or suicide loss survivors, that's huge.
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Because we share a common bond.
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Like we got to the lowest part of our life.
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And thankfully for me, I made the call to 988.
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It's like I say over in a row,
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it was like a row of hopes and things were gonna get better.
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- Yeah.
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But my hope is that by forming a community
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of both suicide attempt survivors
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and suicide loss survivors that we can help change
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the world's view on this,
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that we can feel more comfortable talking
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about the word suicide, that we're okay.
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It's life should happens.
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- Yeah, even that kind of shit.
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And this is some of the worst kind that there is,
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which is why, like all the more reason
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to seek out and find any, in some cases,
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in our case, build community to be able to support it
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because the issue that we talk about,
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that you and I talk so much about,
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this kind of loss is so, so unique.
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And this is not an any way to minimize any kind of loss
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that anyone has ever experienced in any other way,
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losing someone to an illness or an accident
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or however you've lost a person,
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suicide is just a different animal.
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And more people who can bond around that and relate to it,
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and share opinions about it and lived experiences,
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that's how you pick away at that stigma.
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That's how you drill down into that center part
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and you release that, the tabooness of it.
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That's how you create an environment
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where people can come in and share whatever perspective
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they have on it and they can do it openly
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and they can do it freely
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and they can know that it's a safe environment.
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And that's where my healing really started.
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You know, healing is such a continuous journey,
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doesn't end, just like grief doesn't end,
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but once I connected with people around this,
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it changed something in me, it changed something for me.
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There's such power in that.
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It's like you just wanna kind of grab everybody
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and shake them and say, just share, just show up.
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- Yeah, because every time we share our journey,
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we unlock somebody else's prison.
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- Yeah, right.
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- And for me, like the very next day
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after all the shit went down, I shared on social media.
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I'm a true extrovert, so nobody knew,
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absolutely nobody knew how depressed I was.
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And he was during those first few days afterwards
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that I really found my community.
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Number one, as soon as I shared,
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I had about 200 people reach out and thank me
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because now they feel so terrified
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and alone in their own journey.
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But these were the people that stood me up
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when I couldn't stand myself up.
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And it still happens.
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In November, when things got bad again,
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at least this time I didn't keep it all locked up.
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People knew where I stood.
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And once again, my community surrounded me.
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They uplifted me.
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They kept me going.
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And I think that's what we need to do for others out there
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is let's help stand people up
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because sometimes your feet just can't hold you up.
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And that's where community comes in.
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- Yeah, it's powerful.
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It's a powerful image.
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I mean, look, the bottom line of all of it
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is that we're not supposed to do all of this alone.
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And I don't just mean grieving alone.
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I mean, life alone.
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We're not here alone by design.
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We're supposed to support each other.
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Which should be a we not mean mentality,
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especially where things like
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grief and loss are concerned.
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And in the case of suicide,
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we need all the help we can get in this community
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because it is so unbelievably isolating.
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There are what, 83 million people a year
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who are in this community that we're talking about.
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We just need to collect them all.
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We just need to reach them all to unify them all
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so that people can support one another
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because when we're left locked in our own heads,
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if someone doesn't know what we're dealing with,
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they can't help us.
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How are they gonna help if they can't
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know what the problem is and know what you're struggling with?
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So the more often that we, you and I can get out here
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and have these conversations,
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the more people who can listen,
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the more people who share shows like ours, episodes like this
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and connect with other people,
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that's how we affect change.
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This is grassroots stuff.
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This is what you and I are doing.
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It's just grassroots change.
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And that's how it happens.
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It starts as a slow burn and then all of a sudden,
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one becomes two, becomes five, becomes 50,
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becomes a thousand, and then all of a sudden,
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people start engaging differently around it.
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People aren't so afraid anymore.
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People can say the word freely.
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Love the fact that we can come on here
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and you and I can just say suicide,
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like it's any other word.
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Like we know it's not, but we need to somehow change
00:11:13
the meaning of the word in normal conversation.
00:11:16
- Take a step to your mental well-being with CalMari.
00:11:20
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00:11:22
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00:11:24
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00:11:26
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00:11:28
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00:11:30
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00:11:32
- And for me, community,
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there's the ones that can cause out on our shit too.
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- True.
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- And there's so many times, like I'll just keep
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something bottled up and you get with your community,
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you get with your friends and they will call you out on it.
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If they're a good friend, they're gonna call you out on your shit.
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And that's basically what we're trying to do.
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It's not call people out on their shit,
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but get you to open up, get you to talk freely about this
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because it's not a bad word.
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There's a lot of bad connotations around it.
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But the more we talk about it,
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the more community we form.
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- Right.
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- Right, especially in this day and age,
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there's just so many external factors going on right now.
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And letting people know that they're not alone.
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You're never alone in this world.
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There are crisis lines, a caller, a text away.
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And there's therapy out there.
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There's groups, there's podcasts.
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Anything to get out of your head.
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For me sometimes, well, not sometimes.
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Starting soon, I'm gonna be going back to the gym.
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And I'm going to the gym in the winter because it's just hard.
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But I go to the gym to just get my brain to stop.
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Find something to get your brain to stop,
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whether it's coloring or taking a walk in nature
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or calling up a friend and going to have coffee.
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Anything to get out of your head also helps.
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Like if you can find a good walking community,
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now that it's starting to warm up,
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that's something I want to do more of is get out and walk around.
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Talk to people, talk to your spouse, talk to your friends,
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talk to your colleagues.
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- Let them know what's going on.
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And then slowly but surely you build a community around you.
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And it's all for talking about a common thing.
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- Yeah, and you know what, too?
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Sometimes we need something really specific.
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Obviously in the case of what we're talking about,
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we need a specific kind of group
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where people have specific kind of experience.
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Sometimes it's as simple as start your own group.
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- If you can't find a group, create a group.
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I think that we over complicate the process
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of getting people together.
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We're lucky and we live in a world where three clicks
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or however many clicks and you can start a Facebook group.
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Or in most towns there's a community center
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and they're dying for people to start groups
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and create programs.
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So there are so, so many different avenues
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to create the support that you need.
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And like you said, even if you do nothing more than engage
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with any kind of group, it's a support for your mental health.
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Even if you're not looking at the moment
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for a group to talk about suicide with or grief with.
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Maybe you just need to do what you're saying.
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Go to the gym, just find an outlet.
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Community comes in like we said, so many different forms.
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Maybe what you need is just something
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to get you out of your own head.
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Maybe it's not a group even to address what you're dealing with.
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Maybe it's just another kind of group
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to get you to move your body or it's an art class or it's a yoga class.
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So there are so many different ways
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to experience community.
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And community is important because now that you have
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like like-minded individuals or just a group of people,
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now you're not by yourself.
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It's when we're by ourselves that a lot
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of those intrusive horrible thoughts come back into our head.
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Being out amongst other people makes that stop
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for just a little bit.
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It may not go away forever,
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but it goes away for just a little bit
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so that helps me reach out.
00:15:02
At the time when everything was going down,
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I think I was too far along by the time
00:15:07
Christmas Day roll around that I didn't understand
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that I needed community.
00:15:13
And it's a time I couldn't find a good podcast to listen to.
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And I would go to Google and there'd be eight million resources.
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Maybe two of them were helpful.
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But who wants to go through all that?
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Just to err what's going on in my head.
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Thankfully for me in November of 2022,
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I'd seen a commercial for 988.
00:15:34
And that is what had been stuck in my head.
00:15:37
Thankfully I used the number I'm here today because of it.
00:15:40
Yeah.
00:15:40
Really thankful for that.
00:15:41
The other thing about being a part of a group
00:15:45
or in an environment where you can just really
00:15:47
talk freely about your stuff, like whatever your stuff is,
00:15:50
is you know, you kind of walk in the door
00:15:53
knowing whether it's a virtual group or in person.
00:15:55
Like when you walk into that community, you're safe.
00:15:58
Because it's terrifying.
00:15:59
It's terrifying to say the things that are on your mind
00:16:02
just because it's scary stuff to admit in a lot of cases.
00:16:05
Being vulnerable is really, really hard.
00:16:07
Admitting you're afraid of something is really, really hard.
00:16:10
Being consumed by the emotional parts of what you deal with,
00:16:15
like being overwhelmed in public is hard for people.
00:16:19
But I'll tell you, so I have a unique experience
00:16:22
as a facilitator for a suicide support group.
00:16:26
It's through some errands.
00:16:28
It's here in Boston.
00:16:29
It's called Safe Place.
00:16:30
And it meets the first and the third Wednesday of every month
00:16:34
in the evening at 6.30, it's virtual.
00:16:35
And it's a survivor's of suicide loss grief group.
00:16:39
Anyone can come.
00:16:40
It's free.
00:16:41
And I'm a facilitator.
00:16:42
And so I get to moderate and watch these groups.
00:16:46
And it's been such an interesting experience.
00:16:49
Watching how people-- and I've been doing this for over
00:16:51
a year now.
00:16:52
So I've gotten to know the people who
00:16:54
tend to frequent this group.
00:16:56
And I watch people when they first
00:16:58
become a part of this group.
00:17:00
And most often, people are kind of in the shadows.
00:17:03
They're just listening.
00:17:04
They're observing.
00:17:05
They're engaging, maybe a little bit here and there.
00:17:07
And it's wild to me to see the people who come in
00:17:10
and they're the quiet ones in the beginning and there.
00:17:13
Just like fearful of engaging, I get it.
00:17:15
It's nerve-wracking.
00:17:16
And then all of a sudden, they'll
00:17:18
be like some kind of a breakthrough.
00:17:20
Something clicks for them.
00:17:21
Maybe it's something someone else said,
00:17:23
or it's a comfort level.
00:17:25
And then all of a sudden, this person who
00:17:28
has been in the background the entire time
00:17:30
is-- I wouldn't say leading conversation
00:17:32
because it's not really like that.
00:17:33
It's more of just a general round robin kind of conversation.
00:17:37
But they're out there.
00:17:38
And in some cases, people are crying and sharing.
00:17:41
And it can be emotional at times.
00:17:44
But at the end, those are always the people
00:17:46
before they hop off the group.
00:17:48
They're like, that felt amazing to be able to share,
00:17:51
that felt amazing to be in a room with people who
00:17:53
understand what I'm going through.
00:17:55
That's the point.
00:17:56
It's so simple when you really whittle it all away.
00:17:59
It's just about being with people who get it.
00:18:01
That's why you and I clicked so fast and so hard
00:18:04
because we both understood what each other had been through.
00:18:08
We're fortunate that we have each other.
00:18:12
But I think about people out there that are by themselves.
00:18:15
How many of you go out to a gym?
00:18:17
Or my community there.
00:18:18
How many of you go to a local coffee shop?
00:18:21
Or my community there?
00:18:23
Just start talking to people.
00:18:24
I know it's hard.
00:18:25
Believe me, I didn't say anything for three and a half months
00:18:29
until that fateful day.
00:18:31
And then ever since then, apparently I can't stop talking.
00:18:34
But that's not such a bad thing, either.
00:18:37
It's not.
00:18:37
It's a good thing.
00:18:39
But find your community and know that you're not alone.
00:18:42
There's so many research sources out there.
00:18:44
There are people that are willing to help.
00:18:46
There are people willing to listen.
00:18:48
And life throws us so many horrible curveballs.
00:18:53
Sometimes we just don't know when to duck and weave.
00:18:57
But find your people.
00:18:59
And it does make things better.
00:19:02
It makes them at least tolerable.
00:19:04
And tolerable is much better than the alternative.
00:19:08
Now you're right.
00:19:09
Because when you're in a group of like-minded people
00:19:12
who are dealing with what you're dealing with,
00:19:14
you have permission to be exactly how you are.
00:19:18
You come as you are to these groups.
00:19:21
And in most cases, for instance, suicide survivor groups,
00:19:24
people are at different points on that continuum.
00:19:27
Someone may have experienced loss very recently.
00:19:30
Someone may be a month or a year or several years ahead
00:19:33
or decades ahead, wherever you're at.
00:19:36
Like, it doesn't matter if you're, look, I'm
00:19:38
God, 46 years out from losing my father, which is just
00:19:43
such an insane thought to me that it's been that long.
00:19:47
But there are days when it feels like it was this morning.
00:19:49
And that's the crazy thing about grief.
00:19:51
Just because I'm that far removed from when it happened
00:19:55
doesn't mean that I can't relate with someone who's in it
00:19:57
right now, who's going through it right now.
00:20:00
And that's the beauty of community.
00:20:01
Because you automatically get that permission
00:20:04
to show up exactly as you are because people remember.
00:20:07
People know wherever they are on that grief journey.
00:20:11
They remember being where you were.
00:20:14
And they're there to support that.
00:20:16
And even if you're a somebody who's not a group person,
00:20:20
you don't feel like you could benefit.
00:20:22
Don't immediately write it off.
00:20:24
Sometimes the best things in the world for us
00:20:27
are the things that are just on the other side
00:20:29
of our comfort zone.
00:20:30
The things that we just can't visualize ourselves doing.
00:20:34
But then we go ahead and we do them.
00:20:35
And we're like, that thing was amazing.
00:20:38
I can't believe it took me that long to do the thing.
00:20:40
But groups are like that.
00:20:41
You start off and just observe.
00:20:43
That's the beauty of it.
00:20:43
You can make it whatever you want.
00:20:45
There's no expectation.
00:20:46
It's kind of like the expectation about the 988 lifeline.
00:20:50
People think you can only call that lifeline if you're suicidal,
00:20:54
if you're in the middle of an attempt.
00:20:56
So false, so wrong.
00:20:58
Let's clear that up right now.
00:21:00
It's for anybody who's experiencing
00:21:02
any kind of mental health crisis.
00:21:05
And if it's a crisis in your mind, it's a crisis.
00:21:09
Call the line.
00:21:10
Same thing with a group like that.
00:21:12
It's for anybody.
00:21:14
Doesn't matter where you're at.
00:21:16
You don't have to speak.
00:21:18
You don't have to share.
00:21:19
It's entirely up to you.
00:21:21
So I think if more people really understood that,
00:21:25
maybe there wouldn't be so much of a fear factor associated
00:21:28
with doing the thing, going and trying it.
00:21:31
And for the people out there, that are reckless, right?
00:21:34
That are afraid to go outside of your house.
00:21:37
In this day and age, there's tools that you can actually
00:21:40
join community via a Zoom meeting or via a Teams meeting
00:21:44
or get out onto Discord or go join a group on Substack.
00:21:50
There's so many different avenues out there for community.
00:21:53
So even if you don't want to leave the comfort of your house,
00:21:56
there are places you can go to listen and learn or read and learn
00:22:01
or even talk and learn or just sit behind
00:22:06
and absorb what's going on around you so you're not alone.
00:22:09
But being in that type of community,
00:22:11
well, it's a life saber and a game changer.
00:22:15
Yeah, it is.
00:22:16
That's why I'm going back to how this episode started with me
00:22:20
just being so overjoyed that the byproduct of this podcast
00:22:25
is that we are building a community of people
00:22:29
who have this shared experience.
00:22:31
And look, if there are 93 million people out there
00:22:33
in the world today who have been touched in some way by suicide,
00:22:37
maybe you haven't lost your person directly,
00:22:39
but maybe you know someone who has ended their life.
00:22:43
That means there are 93 million different stories out there,
00:22:45
different experiences out there and people
00:22:47
at different points along the way.
00:22:49
And that's a lot to share.
00:22:52
That's a lot to get from the people around you.
00:22:55
And if you have a conversation whether you're an active participant
00:22:58
in a group or whether you're just like you said,
00:23:01
just kind of like hanging back and you're just observing
00:23:03
and taking it all in, just still gaining something from that.
00:23:06
Don't ever think that just because you don't go to a group
00:23:09
and actively participate, that you're not gaining something from it
00:23:13
because there's always something to take away.
00:23:17
Whether you just hear someone's story
00:23:19
and you find that connection point and you're like,
00:23:21
"Oh, that just made me feel less alone."
00:23:23
Okay, let's say that was it.
00:23:24
That sometimes is enough.
00:23:26
Or let's say you learned about an online resource.
00:23:29
So you learned about a group or you learned about a strategy
00:23:32
that someone else used that worked, that you didn't try
00:23:35
or think about before.
00:23:37
Then there's your takeaway.
00:23:38
There's what makes it worth it.
00:23:40
So there's so many different ways to show up
00:23:42
and there's so many different ways to be part of it
00:23:45
and you get to make those decisions.
00:23:47
And what's really cool about our podcast
00:23:50
is that we are trying to form that community.
00:23:52
Eventually we will have either a sub-stack group
00:23:55
or something like that so that we can talk openly
00:23:59
and form that community.
00:24:00
We're fortunate enough that we get to talk about this
00:24:03
and I'm not afraid to talk about suicide.
00:24:06
What I want to do is remove that stigma
00:24:08
around the word suicide.
00:24:11
It's really important.
00:24:12
For me, like I said, thankfully I'm alive.
00:24:14
I get to talk about this, but we want to give people
00:24:17
that hope that they'll be okay the next second,
00:24:20
next minute, next hour, next day.
00:24:23
There are people out there that will have your back.
00:24:25
Yeah, well, we've got your back.
00:24:26
So we've got your back.
00:24:28
So thanks all for listening and watch out for us for next week.
00:24:31
Thanks for joining us on the survivors.
00:24:35
Remember, no matter how tough things feel, you are in up
00:24:38
and the world needs you just the way you are.
00:24:41
You're not alone in this journey.
00:24:42
There's a community here and every step forward counts.
00:24:45
We're so grateful you took the time to listen
00:24:47
and we hope they'll take one day at a time.
00:24:50
Just know there's always more light ahead.
00:24:52
Thanks for being here friends.
00:24:54
Just remember, help is out there in so many different places.
00:24:58
So if you or someone you know is struggling,
00:25:01
please call 988 and a trained crisis counselor like me
00:25:04
will be there to help.
00:25:05
You can also find an inclusive and comprehensive directory
00:25:08
of mental health resources, tools and content
00:25:11
at thehelphub.co.
00:25:13
Just remember that help is always just a call
00:25:15
or a click away.
00:25:16
We'll catch you next week.
00:25:18
In the meantime, keep surviving.
00:25:19
[Music]