*WARNING: This podcast mentions suicide, sexual abuse & trauma and may be triggering.
Episode Summary
In this heartfelt conversation, Lisa and Natasha explore the complexities of navigating grief during the holiday season, particularly as we enter the New Year. They discuss the emotional challenges of celebrating while mourning loved ones, the guilt that can accompany joy, and the importance of honoring memories.
The conversation emphasizes the need for compassion and understanding in supporting those who are grieving, as well as the significance of allowing oneself to feel and express grief in a personal way. Ultimately, they highlight the balance between carrying grief and finding hope as they step into a new year.
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Takeaways
- Grief can intensify during the holidays, making celebrations feel bittersweet.
- It's common to feel out of sync with others during festive times when grieving.
- Traditions can shift dramatically after a loss, creating a sense of disconnection.
- Feeling guilty for experiencing joy while grieving is a common struggle.
- Honoring lost loved ones through memories can be a healing practice.
- Support for those grieving should be compassionate and proactive.
- It's important to allow space for grief during celebrations and not force participation.
- Choosing intentions rooted in compassion can ease the pressure of New Year expectations.
- Surviving another year after a loss is a significant achievement.
- Healing from grief does not mean forgetting; it means living in a way that honors those lost.
Chapters
00:00 Navigating Grief During the Holidays 11:50 The Weight of New Beginnings 20:00 Supporting Those Who Grieve 29:58 Finding Hope Amidst Grief
Mental Health Resources
- If you or someone you know is struggling, please call 988 for help.
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See you next week! In the meantime, keep surviving.
00:00:01 --> 00:00:05 Hey friends, before we dive into this week's episode, just a heads up.
00:00:05 --> 00:00:09 Our podcast talks about suicide, sexual abuse, and other trauma,
00:00:09 --> 00:00:13 and some of what you hear may be triggering. So please listen with care.
00:00:13 --> 00:00:19 This is The Survivors, real stories, raw conversations, and the truth about
00:00:19 --> 00:00:21 what it means to keep going after the hardest things.
00:00:22 --> 00:00:25 We're so glad you're here. Let's keep surviving together. Let's keep surviving together.
00:00:27 --> 00:00:32 You know, it's funny. We were talking, you and I, a while ago about the end
00:00:32 --> 00:00:36 of the year and like anticipating the end of the year and how strange the end
00:00:36 --> 00:00:39 of the year can feel when you're grieving.
00:00:40 --> 00:00:43 And I know yours or like where anyone who's grieving is always going to be grieving,
00:00:43 --> 00:00:48 but you are still in active grief for your brother who you lost in the spring.
00:00:48 --> 00:00:54 And it's such a weird place. I don't know about you, but it's such a weird feeling.
00:00:54 --> 00:00:57 It's like everybody's out there celebrating. And this is just an extension of
00:00:57 --> 00:01:00 the weirdness that everybody feels during any holiday.
00:01:00 --> 00:01:04 But there's something about the new year, I feel like, when it's supposed to
00:01:04 --> 00:01:13 be this rebirth and restart and countdown and resolutions and all this new energy.
00:01:13 --> 00:01:19 And you're grieving somebody who's gone. And there's this pressure to be so
00:01:19 --> 00:01:25 excited about, like, let's start another year, but we're not taking our person into the new year.
00:01:26 --> 00:01:29 I feel like it's almost pulling me backwards sometimes.
00:01:29 --> 00:01:34 And I'm not ready to leave that year yet because I don't want to leave my person
00:01:34 --> 00:01:35 further behind. Does that make sense?
00:01:36 --> 00:01:39 Yeah, absolutely. I mean, New Year's doesn't erase anything. No.
00:01:39 --> 00:01:43 If anything, grief gets louder during the holidays when everybody's celebrating
00:01:43 --> 00:01:48 because it's just a reminder that that person's not there. Yeah, yeah, totally.
00:01:49 --> 00:01:51 Do you ever feel, I know how I feel,
00:01:51 --> 00:01:56 but do you ever feel out of sync with everybody else during holidays?
00:01:56 --> 00:01:59 Like, I know we're talking specifically now about New Year's,
00:01:59 --> 00:02:03 but do you feel that way? Yes, I do.
00:02:04 --> 00:02:07 We've talked about this before, you know, like on our Thanksgiving episode,
00:02:07 --> 00:02:11 but because of how big and grand our holidays were as a child,
00:02:11 --> 00:02:14 and I chose, again, to have two children,
00:02:14 --> 00:02:19 it's so small, and it just feels so foreign because it is so small.
00:02:20 --> 00:02:22 Yeah. I love it, but I don't know.
00:02:23 --> 00:02:26 I'm constantly being pulled between two worlds.
00:02:27 --> 00:02:32 Yeah, yeah, I know that feeling. And I mean, I don't have the experience that you have.
00:02:32 --> 00:02:37 I mean, you came from a massive, massive family with 20 children,
00:02:37 --> 00:02:43 a dad, and three moms because you were part of the FLDS polygamy cult.
00:02:44 --> 00:02:50 So you had like a football team and a half that you celebrated everything with, which is crazy.
00:02:50 --> 00:02:52 But I didn't have that.
00:02:52 --> 00:02:55 I was an only child and, you know, lost my dad when I was 10.
00:02:55 --> 00:02:57 So it was my mom and it was me.
00:02:57 --> 00:03:01 And it only grew to three when my grandmother came and lived with us.
00:03:01 --> 00:03:03 So our holidays were always really small.
00:03:03 --> 00:03:10 And I don't really honestly ever remember doing a lot for New Year's when I was little.
00:03:10 --> 00:03:14 I actually have, I'm just thinking about this right this second for the first time.
00:03:14 --> 00:03:22 I really don't feel like I have any memory of my parents or doing anything on
00:03:22 --> 00:03:25 New Year's Eve. Now, granted, I was a little kid, so how many little kids were
00:03:25 --> 00:03:28 really staying up until midnight on New Year's Eve?
00:03:28 --> 00:03:31 But I just, like, don't even remember it. And that makes me sad. Yeah.
00:03:32 --> 00:03:39 Yeah. Oh, my gosh. We oftentimes celebrated with another polygamist family, big parties.
00:03:39 --> 00:03:43 And we did the pots and pans and went outside and we banged on them.
00:03:43 --> 00:03:47 And even if we weren't at a party, all of us kids would go outside and bang
00:03:47 --> 00:03:53 pots and pans. I mean, it was just, it was, again, just chaotic and loud and fun.
00:03:54 --> 00:03:58 And yeah. And so with, again, with my kids, we're just like,
00:03:59 --> 00:04:04 this is weird. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I know. I didn't have that.
00:04:04 --> 00:04:05 I didn't have that at all.
00:04:06 --> 00:04:11 But I guess, you know, you are where you come from. And we've always had very
00:04:11 --> 00:04:12 different traditions with our kids.
00:04:13 --> 00:04:20 I mean, we have two children also. We have two girls. And we've always done it up for New Year's.
00:04:20 --> 00:04:23 And we've always been, we're a big ski family back when our kids were young.
00:04:23 --> 00:04:26 So we would always be up in the mountains. We had like our chosen family of
00:04:26 --> 00:04:29 ski friends who we're still close with today and we would
00:04:29 --> 00:04:32 do new year's eve with them and it would be bonfires it
00:04:32 --> 00:04:34 would be skiing and it would be all the shakers and
00:04:34 --> 00:04:39 crackers and bangers and all those things i i do i do i do love a good mellow
00:04:39 --> 00:04:45 new year's eve though i really do and this year we are spending our third new
00:04:45 --> 00:04:52 year's eve in tokyo with our daughter which is a blast to see it there.
00:04:52 --> 00:04:57 You talk about like a party and bringing it in with a big, big bang.
00:04:57 --> 00:05:03 That's about as big a bang as you can get. You know, I also feel sometimes guilty
00:05:03 --> 00:05:06 that I'm not as excited. Like each year is different.
00:05:07 --> 00:05:12 Just every holiday I think is different. Some days I'm totally dialed in and
00:05:12 --> 00:05:16 I'm super excited and I'm full steam ahead with all the happy joy.
00:05:16 --> 00:05:21 And then sometimes I feel guilty. I really feel, I don't know.
00:05:21 --> 00:05:29 Sometimes I feel guilty for being joyful and being here to celebrate these things
00:05:29 --> 00:05:33 with people who are gone. That's what I mean.
00:05:34 --> 00:05:39 And that doesn't stop. I mean, I know in the beginning when you're grieving
00:05:39 --> 00:05:42 the loss of someone, everything is heavy. Everything is hard.
00:05:42 --> 00:05:45 Every milestone is traumatic.
00:05:46 --> 00:05:50 And there's so much guilt of feeling joy again.
00:05:50 --> 00:05:54 How could I disrespect my person's memory feeling joy? I sometimes still feel
00:05:54 --> 00:05:57 that way. My dad's been gone for 47 years.
00:05:57 --> 00:06:03 And sometimes when I'm without him for something special, like in New Year's
00:06:03 --> 00:06:07 Eve that I really didn't have a lot of memories of him, I don't know,
00:06:07 --> 00:06:12 I get sad and I definitely feel kind of a little guilty if I'm having a good time and super happy.
00:06:12 --> 00:06:15 I don't know, it's a little bit irrational maybe in some ways,
00:06:15 --> 00:06:18 but I understand how it feels in my own head.
00:06:18 --> 00:06:23 And this is always a place where I can just express the things that I feel in my own head.
00:06:24 --> 00:06:26 Yeah. You know what I mean? I agree. Yeah.
00:06:27 --> 00:06:34 I feel like, so David and Klain are the first two brothers to take their lives in the early 2000s.
00:06:35 --> 00:06:41 And we somehow found a normal sense of life after that.
00:06:41 --> 00:06:45 And, you know, found a way to celebrate and things like that as more time went on.
00:06:47 --> 00:06:52 But since the third brother, Corey, took his life in 2023, and we just had one
00:06:52 --> 00:06:56 loss after another, you know, I've lost three brothers in the past three years.
00:06:56 --> 00:06:59 I've lost three brothers to suicide and my dad to cancer.
00:07:00 --> 00:07:03 And it's just, it's compound grief. And it's just, it's just too much.
00:07:03 --> 00:07:06 And I don't think I'll ever be the same. I don't think anybody in my family
00:07:06 --> 00:07:07 is ever going to be the same.
00:07:08 --> 00:07:14 And so finding a way to carry forward in life, I'm trying to look at it this way.
00:07:14 --> 00:07:21 Every year, if I walk forward into a new year, I'm living another year that
00:07:21 --> 00:07:26 they didn't get to, especially because Clayne, David, and Corey were all 28
00:07:26 --> 00:07:27 when they took their lives.
00:07:28 --> 00:07:30 And if I can...
00:07:31 --> 00:07:36 Live another year beyond that for them, I'm getting to live a life that they
00:07:36 --> 00:07:39 didn't get to live. And so now I feel like I'm honoring them.
00:07:39 --> 00:07:45 And so I, you know, every time somebody dies, the band-aid gets ripped off or starting over.
00:07:46 --> 00:07:50 And so if I can get on the other side of that heavy, heavy grief,
00:07:50 --> 00:07:54 and then I can kind of see the positive side of things and just find a way to
00:07:54 --> 00:07:57 honor them and remember them.
00:07:57 --> 00:08:03 And so one of my favorite ways to honor my brothers and my dad is to share funny
00:08:03 --> 00:08:05 memories of them with my children.
00:08:06 --> 00:08:10 And they've even gotten to the point where they start asking about each of them.
00:08:11 --> 00:08:14 You know, they obviously, Clayton and David, were dead long before they were born.
00:08:15 --> 00:08:20 So they ask questions and funny things, and I love that.
00:08:20 --> 00:08:25 So I think just trying to remember the good things, Because it sounds cliche,
00:08:25 --> 00:08:29 but I feel like that's the best way to remember our lost ones.
00:08:29 --> 00:08:35 Yeah, no, I agree with that. Did you guys have any really significant traditions?
00:08:36 --> 00:08:38 Did you do anything? I mean, you said you went outside and did the pots and
00:08:38 --> 00:08:41 pans and kind of whooped it up as a family.
00:08:41 --> 00:08:47 But did you do anything else that was like a special? Was that a special time for your family?
00:08:47 --> 00:08:52 Because also, too, you were in the FLDS cult. I know you didn't celebrate Christmas
00:08:52 --> 00:08:54 for a long time because you were in the FLDS.
00:08:55 --> 00:08:58 What was New Year's like for you? New Year's was fine to celebrate.
00:08:59 --> 00:09:00 I think we did...
00:09:01 --> 00:09:07 Yeah, New Year's was not off because it wasn't any specific like pagan holiday,
00:09:07 --> 00:09:11 you know, like Christmas was considered pagan and Halloween was considered pagan.
00:09:11 --> 00:09:16 But New Year's was, I feel like a lot of the polygamist families celebrated it and had a big party.
00:09:16 --> 00:09:20 And, you know, generally you could have a ginormous party with just your own children.
00:09:21 --> 00:09:24 I was going to say, like when you said a little while ago. To include families coming together.
00:09:25 --> 00:09:28 Right, right. Well, you said a minute ago that, you know, you would do things
00:09:28 --> 00:09:32 with like another family. Well, that's like 80 people.
00:09:32 --> 00:09:34 Now you have 80 people. You have two families. You have 80 people.
00:09:35 --> 00:09:40 That's insanity. It really is. It is absolutely insane. And our house actually
00:09:40 --> 00:09:44 growing up was not, it would seem big to people now. It had seven bedrooms.
00:09:45 --> 00:09:48 Oh, my God. But it was very small.
00:09:48 --> 00:09:53 Yeah, yeah. It's not big and spacious like what people think because kids were
00:09:53 --> 00:09:55 just getting stacked in there together.
00:09:55 --> 00:10:00 My dad did three additions on our house because as the family grew he needed
00:10:00 --> 00:10:04 more space so he had to keep adding on and again it's very common in polygamous
00:10:04 --> 00:10:07 families but some families their
00:10:07 --> 00:10:12 homes were ginormous so they could easily accommodate so i don't we didn't host
00:10:12 --> 00:10:14 a lot where it was multiple families coming together unless it was during the
00:10:14 --> 00:10:18 summertime and it was outside but yeah the i don't want to say their name because
00:10:18 --> 00:10:23 they're actually a very public facing family, but wonderful memories with them.
00:10:23 --> 00:10:27 Okay, that's good. They threw some great, great parties and were very welcoming
00:10:27 --> 00:10:30 and a lot of fun memories with their family growing up.
00:10:32 --> 00:10:35 So I have a question, and I don't know if it's going to be a hard question.
00:10:35 --> 00:10:39 I don't want it to be a hurtful question or hard question for you to answer,
00:10:39 --> 00:10:44 but given the fact that you're still dealing with such a new death,
00:10:44 --> 00:10:49 losing Monroe, losing your brother, your fifth brother. Yeah.
00:10:50 --> 00:10:57 Is stepping into the new year knowing that the year that he passed away, is that really hard?
00:10:58 --> 00:11:00 Like, is that something you're not thinking about at all? In which case,
00:11:00 --> 00:11:02 I don't want to put it on your mind at all.
00:11:02 --> 00:11:05 But if it is something, like, is that a thought?
00:11:05 --> 00:11:09 Like, does it feel like you're moving farther away from him?
00:11:09 --> 00:11:13 When you think about it in the context of grief and the new year?
00:11:13 --> 00:11:17 No. Okay. No, not really. What about for you?
00:11:17 --> 00:11:21 I don't know. Now, I guess as the years and the decades, especially with my dad, add up,
00:11:22 --> 00:11:26 they actually, like, I think a lot of people might have the false impression
00:11:26 --> 00:11:33 that when you get that far along in your grief, like, I'm 47 years out from when my father died.
00:11:33 --> 00:11:39 And I think a lot of people might assume that, oh, it's like the grief is reconciled
00:11:39 --> 00:11:45 or balanced or, you know, not resolved, but it's managed. Yeah.
00:11:46 --> 00:11:50 It's definitely different, but I don't grieve any less. I just grieve in a different way.
00:11:51 --> 00:11:56 And I've been paying an awful lot of attention this year to how I've been feeling
00:11:56 --> 00:11:59 about accumulating more years and accumulating more decades.
00:11:59 --> 00:12:02 Like, I don't know what it is. It's about the number 47 years.
00:12:02 --> 00:12:07 It just seems infinite to me all of a sudden.
00:12:07 --> 00:12:11 And so as I'm heading toward New Year's Eve,
00:12:11 --> 00:12:15 when everybody's paying attention to old year closes, new year starts,
00:12:15 --> 00:12:21 and all that energy, I'm thinking like, damn, now it's another year I'm adding
00:12:21 --> 00:12:24 on to how many years it's been since I saw my dad.
00:12:24 --> 00:12:27 And it feels hard.
00:12:27 --> 00:12:32 So I don't know, somehow it feels harder than it has in recent years.
00:12:32 --> 00:12:35 And I'm kind of dialed into it on the new year for some reason,
00:12:35 --> 00:12:37 which is one of the reasons why I wanted to have this conversation.
00:12:38 --> 00:12:43 You know, it just, it surprises me sometimes how things like celebrating New
00:12:43 --> 00:12:48 Year's or celebrating the holidays can really just kind of stir up grief in
00:12:48 --> 00:12:50 such unexpected ways. Like, you expect it.
00:12:51 --> 00:12:52 Obviously, you expect to be
00:12:52 --> 00:12:56 sad when you can't spend special occasions and holidays with your people.
00:12:56 --> 00:13:00 Yeah. But I don't know, something about New Year's and the change of the calendar
00:13:00 --> 00:13:07 year this year has just been on my brain a little extra this year for some reason.
00:13:07 --> 00:13:13 Well, and another way I feel like what we also can talk about is because a lot
00:13:13 --> 00:13:16 of people are unfamiliar with grief and they don't know how to have conversations
00:13:16 --> 00:13:18 or how to support people.
00:13:18 --> 00:13:22 So one of the things that really needs a lot is somebody who has,
00:13:22 --> 00:13:26 I feel, become an expert in grief. I know you are, too.
00:13:26 --> 00:13:29 How do you become an expert? Spend 10 hours learning about a subject.
00:13:30 --> 00:13:35 I spent the last 20-something years grieving, and you 47 years.
00:13:35 --> 00:13:40 We have to do that math. I have to, at some point, do that math to see how many
00:13:40 --> 00:13:43 hours 47 years actually is.
00:13:43 --> 00:13:48 Yeah, you should. I should. You should absolutely. Because I have blown so far
00:13:48 --> 00:13:54 beyond the 10-hour rule that I should now have a doctorate in grief,
00:13:54 --> 00:13:58 a couple of PhDs, I don't know, honorary degree from Harvard, whatever.
00:13:59 --> 00:14:03 Can we get an honorary degree over here? Yeah. Yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot of hours.
00:14:04 --> 00:14:08 But I feel like one of the things that's important to how to show up for somebody
00:14:08 --> 00:14:15 that's grieving is don't say, what can I do for you or what do you need?
00:14:16 --> 00:14:19 It doesn't matter where they're on their journey. I feel like,
00:14:19 --> 00:14:21 and I've started to do this with you.
00:14:21 --> 00:14:24 How can I support you better in this time? And a lot of times,
00:14:24 --> 00:14:26 sometimes even asking that question.
00:14:26 --> 00:14:32 But it's just something about offering up the support not a what do you need feels kind of,
00:14:33 --> 00:14:39 disconnected and so yeah just make sure you're paying attention to the people
00:14:39 --> 00:14:44 around you that are in their active grieving journey they are struggling even
00:14:44 --> 00:14:48 though they're hiding and they do a lot of work it's it's a lot of work to try
00:14:48 --> 00:14:53 and show up emotionally and pretend like you're having a good time when you're actively grieving.
00:14:53 --> 00:14:58 So, even though they appear that they're okay, oftentimes they're not.
00:14:58 --> 00:15:03 So, if you see them maybe quiet in a corner, just go sit with them.
00:15:04 --> 00:15:06 Don't have to even say anything. Just go sit with them.
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00:15:47 --> 00:15:51 Visit thehelphub.co where the help you need is just a click away.
00:15:58 --> 00:16:03 And you never know what will cause a trigger. It could be New Year's Eve.
00:16:03 --> 00:16:05 It could be any one of the holidays. It could be a random Wednesday.
00:16:05 --> 00:16:10 It doesn't make a difference what it is, but you're absolutely right that we
00:16:10 --> 00:16:16 have to be paying attention to the people around us and doing the work of picking
00:16:16 --> 00:16:19 out the things that we think that they would need.
00:16:19 --> 00:16:22 I mean, you and I were talking a little bit offline before we hit record about
00:16:22 --> 00:16:30 what it was like for you when you lost sibling after sibling and people weren't
00:16:30 --> 00:16:32 showing up that you thought would show up.
00:16:33 --> 00:16:38 And ultimately, the only thing you could think of to tell people to do to help
00:16:38 --> 00:16:40 you was to cook a meal because you couldn't cook.
00:16:41 --> 00:16:44 It's things like that. I feel like these open-ended questions like,
00:16:45 --> 00:16:47 tell me how I can help you.
00:16:47 --> 00:16:50 I think that puts too much pressure back on the person who's grieving.
00:16:51 --> 00:16:54 And instead, like, you finally got to a point where you were like,
00:16:54 --> 00:16:56 okay, do this thing for me.
00:16:57 --> 00:17:00 Either we have to say that, and honestly, that shouldn't even be our job if
00:17:00 --> 00:17:04 we're the one grieving. It should be the people around us who are trying to support us.
00:17:05 --> 00:17:08 If you know that person well enough to be connected to them if they're grieving,
00:17:09 --> 00:17:10 then you know what that person may or may not need.
00:17:11 --> 00:17:14 So, offered up, the worst thing that person can say is, I don't need that.
00:17:15 --> 00:17:18 Right. That's not helpful. A simple text.
00:17:18 --> 00:17:25 We live in a day where 30 seconds, 15 seconds, a simple text of I am thinking
00:17:25 --> 00:17:28 of you and I love you. Mm-hmm.
00:17:29 --> 00:17:33 That's all you need to do. Yeah, yeah. That does the world for people that are
00:17:33 --> 00:17:36 grieving or just having a hard time.
00:17:37 --> 00:17:43 And just, you know, just a little, if we could just, I know the holidays gets crazy and chaotic.
00:17:43 --> 00:17:47 And that just makes it even worse for the people that are grieving and just
00:17:47 --> 00:17:49 trying to get through it.
00:17:49 --> 00:17:54 But just finding a way to let them know that they're not alone really makes
00:17:54 --> 00:17:55 a big difference for them. Yeah.
00:17:56 --> 00:18:01 And also, especially, we're obviously, we're through Christmas holidays now,
00:18:01 --> 00:18:04 and we're here around New Year's.
00:18:05 --> 00:18:12 If you're recognizing that someone's lost someone, don't force them to go out for New Year's Eve.
00:18:12 --> 00:18:15 If they don't want to go out for New Year's Eve, don't force them to watch the
00:18:15 --> 00:18:19 ball drop or go to the party or go to the club. Like, don't.
00:18:19 --> 00:18:23 That's another thing that you can do for your person. That's another way of
00:18:23 --> 00:18:24 showing up. It's just saying,
00:18:25 --> 00:18:31 I totally respect that your head space and your heart space is not in a place to do this right now.
00:18:32 --> 00:18:35 And give somebody the out. Don't even make them have to say it.
00:18:36 --> 00:18:41 Because a lot of people, when they're actively grieving, if they feel joy or
00:18:41 --> 00:18:46 excitement or celebrate, they feel like they're betraying the lost loved one
00:18:46 --> 00:18:48 by feeling any kind of happiness.
00:18:48 --> 00:18:55 It's a big betrayal because how dare I be happy or feel joy when they're gone?
00:18:56 --> 00:19:01 Again, it's just this teetering back and forth between wanting to feel better,
00:19:01 --> 00:19:03 but feeling like you're betraying the lost.
00:19:04 --> 00:19:07 Yeah, it's a very, very awkward place to be in.
00:19:08 --> 00:19:14 So someone's listening right now. And if you're listening and you've had a loss
00:19:14 --> 00:19:17 recently, this year, last year.
00:19:17 --> 00:19:22 And we're moving into a new year. And there's a lot of symbolism there.
00:19:22 --> 00:19:27 You know, we already talked about it, the restart, fresh beginning, all those things.
00:19:28 --> 00:19:34 You don't have to celebrate moving further away from someone you love if that's how you feel.
00:19:34 --> 00:19:38 That's what we just talked about, that sometimes moving into a new year makes
00:19:38 --> 00:19:42 you mourn the year that, you know, if you've just lost someone,
00:19:42 --> 00:19:48 now you're out of that year that you were with them. It feels somehow farther away.
00:19:49 --> 00:19:54 You don't have to celebrate moving forward if you're not ready to move forward.
00:19:55 --> 00:19:56 Surviving another year is, I
00:19:56 --> 00:20:01 think it's sacred work. I think it's pretty sacred work to do that. And...
00:20:02 --> 00:20:08 It's our job to carry that person into the new year and all the years that follow,
00:20:08 --> 00:20:13 because that's how we honor them. That's how we stay tethered to them.
00:20:14 --> 00:20:19 So, I don't know. It's just a mixed bag. I think the bottom line is that we
00:20:19 --> 00:20:24 don't have to feel overjoyed and exuberant to hit the new year hard.
00:20:25 --> 00:20:28 Just show up for it. It doesn't matter. You can tiptoe into it.
00:20:28 --> 00:20:31 You can jump into it. You can do whatever you want. But, you know,
00:20:31 --> 00:20:32 you don't owe the world big energy.
00:20:32 --> 00:20:37 You just, you just got to show up. And yeah, grief is going to be beside you.
00:20:37 --> 00:20:44 And it will always be beside you. And all you can do is just let it be there.
00:20:44 --> 00:20:45 We don't really have a choice.
00:20:46 --> 00:20:50 I think that's, that's the thing that most of us don't really recognize.
00:20:50 --> 00:20:54 Can you remember back last year and years past?
00:20:54 --> 00:20:58 Because I know you've lost a lot of family members, like quick succession.
00:20:59 --> 00:21:03 When you get to a point like New Year's Eve and you're letting go of a year,
00:21:03 --> 00:21:07 what's something that has helped you that you can think of kind of keep going
00:21:07 --> 00:21:10 when everything feels happy? You don't want to celebrate.
00:21:10 --> 00:21:12 You don't want that new year to start.
00:21:13 --> 00:21:15 What has helped you, would you say? Yeah.
00:21:16 --> 00:21:22 Okay. So for me, a way that helps me grieve and honor them, I usually find a
00:21:22 --> 00:21:24 song that is somehow attached to them.
00:21:24 --> 00:21:28 We actually have a family grief song, which sounds terrible.
00:21:28 --> 00:21:31 I know. I actually think you've talked about that in one of our episodes about your family.
00:21:32 --> 00:21:36 Yeah. So it's Bette Midler's The Rose. We played that at, I think,
00:21:36 --> 00:21:38 just about every funeral that we've had.
00:21:38 --> 00:21:43 But I feel like a way to carry them, number one, say their name out loud.
00:21:43 --> 00:21:51 Yes. say their name out loud and allow yourself to cry when it comes up because
00:21:51 --> 00:21:53 you just never know when it's going to hit.
00:21:54 --> 00:21:58 And if you have somebody you could trust or that you feel like you can be vulnerable
00:21:58 --> 00:22:02 with, just say, hey, you know what? I'd really like to talk about my person.
00:22:03 --> 00:22:07 Do you have some time to talk about them with me? I just really want to honor them and remember them.
00:22:08 --> 00:22:11 Share some funny memories or whatever comes up for you.
00:22:11 --> 00:22:16 I'm really, I'm really, really glad that you brought that up because I think
00:22:16 --> 00:22:17 so often people get a little paralyzed.
00:22:18 --> 00:22:22 People who have like all the best intentions get really, really paralyzed.
00:22:22 --> 00:22:28 And maybe on New Year's Eve, that's what you want to do. Maybe you're super
00:22:28 --> 00:22:32 missing your person at that time and all you want to do is talk about them,
00:22:32 --> 00:22:35 but the people around you don't know that. So everyone's terrified.
00:22:35 --> 00:22:38 Nobody wants to bring it up if it's going to make you sad. Nobody wants to talk
00:22:38 --> 00:22:41 about it if it's not what you want to talk about, ask.
00:22:41 --> 00:22:48 The person who's lost someone can only just say, hey, look, I really appreciate you asking. I'm good.
00:22:48 --> 00:22:50 I don't want to talk about it. Or it could be,
00:22:51 --> 00:22:56 most wonderful gift that you give them to ask to talk about it.
00:22:56 --> 00:22:59 Because they can share, be like, oh my gosh, you know what, so-and-so,
00:23:00 --> 00:23:06 they always did the funniest thing on this holiday or around New Year's Eve, and we all loved it.
00:23:07 --> 00:23:12 And sharing memories of your lost loved one is a wonderful way to honor them.
00:23:13 --> 00:23:17 And again, I feel like part of what you and I can do, because we've had so much
00:23:17 --> 00:23:22 experience with grief is teaching others how to show up for others that are grieving.
00:23:23 --> 00:23:26 So I'm really glad we're continuing to talk about this and educate others on
00:23:26 --> 00:23:31 ways that they can show up for somebody who's gone through a hard time and grieving.
00:23:31 --> 00:23:35 Yeah, well, I mean, that's exactly what you and I are doing with any of these conversations.
00:23:35 --> 00:23:43 And so much of what you and I talk about here is how to navigate loss and grief
00:23:43 --> 00:23:47 and trauma and all of these things that all have such similar kinds of emotions
00:23:47 --> 00:23:49 and that people tiptoe around.
00:23:50 --> 00:23:55 And I think the hardest thing is remembering that you're not the only one dealing
00:23:55 --> 00:23:57 with the thing that you're dealing with.
00:23:57 --> 00:24:01 That's why you and I keep showing up every week to talk about all these different
00:24:01 --> 00:24:07 things, because I'm not a victim of sexual abuse or domestic violence. You are.
00:24:07 --> 00:24:10 I've lost the same person twice. You haven't. Together,
00:24:10 --> 00:24:13 we've lost eight people to suicide and the more
00:24:13 --> 00:24:16 that we talk about all these things the more
00:24:16 --> 00:24:21 people will identify themselves in your story or in my story and be like oh
00:24:21 --> 00:24:26 okay well Natasha tried that or said that and Lisa did this and that worked
00:24:26 --> 00:24:32 for her and she gave herself permission to to say no I can't show up for this
00:24:32 --> 00:24:36 thing or do that thing and I guess I can too and so it's just the whole big chain reaction.
00:24:36 --> 00:24:42 It's a whole long-winded way of saying it's beautiful when you realize that
00:24:42 --> 00:24:46 you have community out there who can understand what you've gone through. And they have.
00:24:47 --> 00:24:51 Things to offer. We all can't think of all the answers. We all don't have all the answers.
00:24:51 --> 00:24:55 We all don't have all the experience. So when we can all come together and share
00:24:55 --> 00:24:58 all that in a place where people can kind of pick and choose what they want
00:24:58 --> 00:25:00 and what they need, that's the whole point.
00:25:02 --> 00:25:09 I agree. I agree. Hope is so important because, especially around the holidays,
00:25:09 --> 00:25:13 and I always try to take forward with me a positivity.
00:25:13 --> 00:25:15 I guess that's how I'm different in the new years.
00:25:15 --> 00:25:21 It gives me a sense of hope. Like, what can I do differently this year? What didn't work?
00:25:21 --> 00:25:24 Especially gain a lot of wisdom in your 40s, I'm telling you.
00:25:25 --> 00:25:32 Wait till you get to your 50s. I'm like a prophet now, not the FLDS kind.
00:25:34 --> 00:25:41 I'm just saying I'm not. Oh my God, that's too good. I'm here all week.
00:25:42 --> 00:25:47 There you go. So it can't be the Lisa and Natasha show without a little bit of laughter.
00:25:48 --> 00:25:55 It's got to be like, what the hell would we do if we couldn't somehow laugh at some of this stuff?
00:25:55 --> 00:25:58 I mean, there are a lot of people who are going to be listening to this who
00:25:58 --> 00:26:01 are getting ready for New Year's. They've lost someone they love.
00:26:01 --> 00:26:06 They're shitting their pants because they don't want to let the old year go
00:26:06 --> 00:26:07 or they're afraid to step into the new one.
00:26:07 --> 00:26:10 And they don't know how to feel and they don't know if they should celebrate and they...
00:26:11 --> 00:26:16 Don't know how to handle it. And if you and I can show up and ultimately end
00:26:16 --> 00:26:22 up laughing about something and prove to someone like, A, it is okay to laugh,
00:26:23 --> 00:26:24 and B, it's okay to laugh.
00:26:25 --> 00:26:30 You eventually will again. If you and I, when you accumulate all of the shit
00:26:30 --> 00:26:35 that we've been traumatized by in our lives, if you accumulate all of that,
00:26:35 --> 00:26:40 that is a big ass bucket of trauma between us.
00:26:40 --> 00:26:46 And if you and I can still laugh and can get to a point in our lives where,
00:26:46 --> 00:26:50 yeah, we still have grief actively every single day, but we can also have joy too, then,
00:26:51 --> 00:26:56 And maybe somebody going into the new year who's terrified, not knowing what to expect,
00:26:56 --> 00:27:00 feeling like they have to show up in a certain way, you guys can just not worry
00:27:00 --> 00:27:06 about that and focus on what you need in the moment and show up in whatever way you feel you can.
00:27:06 --> 00:27:10 Yeah, absolutely. And I feel like their absence has taught me how to show up
00:27:10 --> 00:27:16 for myself in ways that other people have not. Yes. Yeah.
00:27:17 --> 00:27:19 You've got to show up for yourself. like 100% if
00:27:19 --> 00:27:22 that means giving yourself grace being kind to yourself and
00:27:22 --> 00:27:25 not expecting yourself to do or feel a certain way at a
00:27:25 --> 00:27:28 certain time and just allowing yourself you know what this
00:27:28 --> 00:27:31 is what I'm feeling in the moment and be kind to
00:27:31 --> 00:27:37 yourself beating yourself up about feeling or not feeling any kind of way you're
00:27:37 --> 00:27:41 just doing more damage to yourself so just need to show up for yourself and
00:27:41 --> 00:27:46 be kind to yourself and love yourself yes yes and yes if you had like a last
00:27:46 --> 00:27:50 message as we move into the new year,
00:27:50 --> 00:27:53 what would you wish, and I can answer it too, but I'm asking you first,
00:27:54 --> 00:27:56 what do you wish people understood,
00:27:57 --> 00:28:03 about grieving during that new year time where there's so many expectations?
00:28:03 --> 00:28:06 What would you say? Like first thing that comes to your mind.
00:28:06 --> 00:28:14 I would honestly encourage people to choose intentions that are rooted in compassion, not pressure.
00:28:15 --> 00:28:20 Yeah, I love that. I've completely given up on resolutions, not because I don't
00:28:20 --> 00:28:25 believe in them, but because it's tied to that pressure. Like, honestly...
00:28:26 --> 00:28:29 I just want to show up, period.
00:28:29 --> 00:28:32 I just want to show up in whatever way. I want to give the
00:28:32 --> 00:28:36 gift to myself to show up however I need
00:28:36 --> 00:28:45 to and give myself that grace to fall apart when I need to and celebrate the
00:28:45 --> 00:28:53 wins when I get them and kind of be free-spirited in a way when I move into a new year.
00:28:53 --> 00:28:57 I've noticed that that's how I feel. I used to love the whole resolution thing
00:28:57 --> 00:28:58 because, of course, it's motivating.
00:28:59 --> 00:29:04 It's great to kickstart yourself. But it does come with an awful lot of pressure.
00:29:04 --> 00:29:08 And what is it? It's like 75% of all New Year's resolutions fail in the first
00:29:08 --> 00:29:10 12 days of the year or something stupid like that.
00:29:11 --> 00:29:14 But it's like that. And I don't want to
00:29:14 --> 00:29:18 do that anymore. I just want to be open-hearted. That's what I would say.
00:29:19 --> 00:29:24 I hope people know that you can be open-hearted in whatever way you can.
00:29:25 --> 00:29:27 And it's good enough. It's good enough.
00:29:29 --> 00:29:34 So next week, we're, okay, I'm actually really, really excited to have this
00:29:34 --> 00:29:35 conversation next week.
00:29:35 --> 00:29:38 First of all, I'm glad that we had this conversation this week,
00:29:38 --> 00:29:42 because I know it was helpful for me even just to say out loud that.
00:29:43 --> 00:29:48 This time of the year gets me feeling a little bit funky as I accumulate all
00:29:48 --> 00:29:50 those years of being without my dad.
00:29:50 --> 00:29:53 So I appreciate you just sitting there on the other end of the screen,
00:29:53 --> 00:29:55 just taking that in. So thank you. I love you for that.
00:29:56 --> 00:30:02 So next week, we're going to talk about how to survive parenthood while we're grieving.
00:30:02 --> 00:30:09 And oh my God, do we have a lot of experience with that because that is a whole
00:30:09 --> 00:30:17 nother beast. Like how we show up for our children when we can barely hold our own shit together.
00:30:18 --> 00:30:22 How do you love them when you're so distraught you don't even know your own name?
00:30:22 --> 00:30:26 You know, how do you keep showing up when you feel just so fragile that you
00:30:26 --> 00:30:31 feel like you're just going to crack when one of them hugs you?
00:30:31 --> 00:30:36 So I actually am really excited about that conversation because I think it's
00:30:36 --> 00:30:39 going to be a very unique one. And we both have so much perspective to offer
00:30:39 --> 00:30:44 on that. But both on the parenting side and on the grieving while parenting.
00:30:45 --> 00:30:49 Yeah, I do have one final message, and I actually wrote it down because I didn't
00:30:49 --> 00:30:52 want to miss it. But I want to read it to you.
00:30:52 --> 00:30:55 So it's genuine, but I just want to read it so I make sure I say it right.
00:30:56 --> 00:30:59 So just a final message of what we've shared here today.
00:30:59 --> 00:31:02 If you're stepping into the new year with grief in your hands,
00:31:02 --> 00:31:04 you're not broken. You're human.
00:31:04 --> 00:31:08 You're allowed to carry both love that hurts and hope that saves you.
00:31:09 --> 00:31:13 I'm walking into this new year with my brothers in my heart and my dad.
00:31:13 --> 00:31:17 And with the belief that healing doesn't mean forgetting. It means you're living
00:31:17 --> 00:31:19 the way that they never had a chance to.
00:31:20 --> 00:31:23 I love that. Why are you going to make me cry at the very end before I hit stop?
00:31:23 --> 00:31:26 That was beautiful. And I really appreciate that. And I think a lot of other
00:31:26 --> 00:31:28 people who hear it will too.
00:31:29 --> 00:31:32 So thanks for sharing that. We'll be back. We're going to be back exactly one
00:31:32 --> 00:31:33 week from right this second.
00:31:34 --> 00:31:37 So between now and then, keep surviving, friends. We'll see you soon.
00:31:37 --> 00:31:40 Happy New Year. Happy New Year. Yeah, Happy New Year.
00:31:42 --> 00:31:45 Thanks so much for listening and for being part of the Survivors community.
00:31:46 --> 00:31:50 No matter where you are in your story, you're not alone and you're definitely not broken.
00:31:51 --> 00:31:55 Healing takes time and it looks different for everyone. The fact that you're
00:31:55 --> 00:31:58 still here and still trying means you're already doing the hard work.
00:31:59 --> 00:32:03 If something in today's conversation resonated with you, please share it with
00:32:03 --> 00:32:04 someone who might need to hear it too.
00:32:05 --> 00:32:10 That's how we keep these conversations going and remind each other that there's always hope.
00:32:10 --> 00:32:13 And if you or someone you know is struggling, please remember,
00:32:13 --> 00:32:14 help is always out there.
00:32:15 --> 00:32:19 You can call or text 988 anytime to reach a trained crisis counselor like me.
00:32:19 --> 00:32:23 And for more mental health resources, tools, treatment options,
00:32:23 --> 00:32:27 and content to support your mental health, visit thehelphub.co.
00:32:27 --> 00:32:31 We're so grateful you're part of the Survivors family, and we'll be back next
00:32:31 --> 00:32:34 week with another honest conversation about life after the hardest things.
00:32:35 --> 00:32:39 Until then, take care of yourself and your people and keep surviving.