*WARNING: This podcast mentions suicide, sexual abuse & trauma and may be triggering.
Episode Summary
In this deeply moving episode, the hosts discuss the raw realities of survival after trauma, focusing on Natasha's experiences with suicide attempts and the profound impact of losing five brothers to suicide. The conversation explores the complexities of grief, the importance of support, and the ongoing journey of healing and resilience. Natasha shares her story of pain, loss, and the choices that led her to continue living, emphasizing the need for community and understanding in the face of such overwhelming challenges.
Episode Sponsored by The HelpHUB™
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Takeaways
- Survival is about choosing to keep going every day.
- Grief evolves and is rooted in love.
- Each suicide attempt was a different experience for Natasha.
- The impact of family trauma can be profound and long-lasting.
- Support systems are crucial in navigating mental health challenges.
- Healing is a lifelong commitment and looks different for everyone.
- Talking about trauma can help others feel less alone.
- Natasha's story highlights the importance of community in healing.
- Finding meaning in survival is possible, even after great loss.
- It's okay to have different reactions to trauma and grief.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Survival and Trauma 01:56 The Journey of Suicide Attempts 10:09 The Impact of Family Loss 22:24 Navigating Grief and Healing 31:10 Finding Meaning in Survival
Mental Health Resources
- If you or someone you know is struggling, please call 988 for help.
- The Survivors Podcast Website – https://thesurvivors.net/
- The HelpHUB™ – Mental health resources, tools, and support networks – https://www.thehelphub.co/
- National Domestic Violence Hotline – Call 1-800-799-SAFE (7223)
Follow & Connect With Us
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See you next week! In the meantime, keep surviving.
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00:00:00 --> 00:00:04 Hey friends, before we dive into this week's episode, just a heads up.
00:00:04 --> 00:00:08 Our podcast talks about suicide, sexual abuse, and other trauma,
00:00:08 --> 00:00:12 and some of what you hear may be triggering. So please listen with care.
00:00:13 --> 00:00:18 This is The Survivors, real stories, raw conversations, and the truth about
00:00:18 --> 00:00:21 what it means to keep going after the hardest things.
00:00:21 --> 00:00:24 We're so glad you're here. Let's keep surviving together.
00:00:31 --> 00:00:36 Welcome back to the Survivors, friends. Today is probably going to be one of
00:00:36 --> 00:00:40 the hardest episodes I think that we've had to record because we're talking
00:00:40 --> 00:00:43 about survival in what I think is its rawest form.
00:00:44 --> 00:00:48 My co-host, Natasha, who you got to meet over the last couple of weeks,
00:00:49 --> 00:00:54 has survived, like I've said, more trauma than anyone that I have ever known.
00:00:54 --> 00:00:57 And this week, we're going to talk about a couple of different aspects of that.
00:00:57 --> 00:01:02 She survived three of her own suicide attempts. She alluded to that in the last couple of weeks.
00:01:02 --> 00:01:07 And she's also survived what I think is just unimaginable, the loss of five
00:01:07 --> 00:01:09 of your brothers to suicide.
00:01:10 --> 00:01:14 There's no roadmap for how to hold on to that kind of pain, for how to hang
00:01:14 --> 00:01:20 on after that kind of pain, or just how to keep surviving when so much of your
00:01:20 --> 00:01:22 family has disappeared.
00:01:22 --> 00:01:27 You're one of, remind everybody how many in your family, children. There's 20 children.
00:01:27 --> 00:01:32 20 children. So five of them now, one quarter of them have been lost,
00:01:32 --> 00:01:34 not only lost, but lost to suicide.
00:01:35 --> 00:01:38 But you've survived and you continue to survive.
00:01:38 --> 00:01:43 So today, I just, I love and appreciate the fact that we're going to talk about.
00:01:44 --> 00:01:49 What that really looks like when loss just keeps coming back and back and back.
00:01:49 --> 00:01:55 And your freshest loss was one of your brothers who passed away just this spring. Yeah, March.
00:01:55 --> 00:02:03 Yeah, yeah. So let's talk about if it feels right for you, let's just dive right
00:02:03 --> 00:02:06 in and talk about your first suicide attempt.
00:02:07 --> 00:02:13 You've said it wasn't about wanting to die as much as just wanting the pain that you were in to stop.
00:02:13 --> 00:02:20 Can you just take us back there and talk about what was happening in that moment at that time?
00:02:20 --> 00:02:25 Well, I guess when I look back and I really think about it, how close I was,
00:02:26 --> 00:02:28 there's actually five attempts.
00:02:28 --> 00:02:33 Okay. But I only considered the three because I actually went through with it.
00:02:33 --> 00:02:36 There's no medical reason that I should still be here.
00:02:36 --> 00:02:42 But my actual first, where I was there, I had the knife to my wrist I was 15.
00:02:43 --> 00:02:50 And that was when I was juggling and really struggling coming to grips with
00:02:50 --> 00:02:53 being sexually abused by my brother, Marcus, as a child,
00:02:53 --> 00:02:59 really as a toddler, three, four years old, and not knowing what to do with that pain,
00:02:59 --> 00:03:05 not knowing how to tell anyone that this had happened because I was still battling
00:03:05 --> 00:03:11 in my mind whether or not this was real and whether or not I asked foreign. But,
00:03:12 --> 00:03:14 How could a three- or four-year-old ask for those kinds of things?
00:03:14 --> 00:03:16 Well, that's what I was going to say.
00:03:16 --> 00:03:20 And I think it bears repeating. We did talk about this in last week's episode
00:03:20 --> 00:03:24 when you did share this part of your story about that sexual abuse from your brother.
00:03:26 --> 00:03:32 That your brother admitted when confronted. He admitted to doing this to you.
00:03:32 --> 00:03:36 Right. Yes. Oh, good. Yeah. The day after I told my parents.
00:03:36 --> 00:03:41 So I started having the flashbacks and was dealing with it for at least a year
00:03:41 --> 00:03:47 before I told anyone. And then I finally told my sisters, a couple of my sisters.
00:03:47 --> 00:03:52 And then it was another six months before I told my parents because it just
00:03:52 --> 00:03:55 got to the point where I couldn't deal with it anymore.
00:03:55 --> 00:04:02 I was just so lost And I was sitting there With the knife just running Literally
00:04:02 --> 00:04:09 just running over my wrist But I didn't have the strength To break the skin
00:04:09 --> 00:04:11 Because I was still juggling With,
00:04:12 --> 00:04:15 If I commit suicide I'm going to go to hell Because that's what we were taught,
00:04:16 --> 00:04:21 Juggling with that I didn't want to hurt my parents And it's not that I just
00:04:21 --> 00:04:28 wanted that pain And that emptiness to just be gone. And I didn't know any other way to do that.
00:04:29 --> 00:04:33 And at that point, and it was probably 11 o'clock at night and I called my sister
00:04:33 --> 00:04:38 Jenny and my other sister who lived with her picked up the phone and they talked me through it.
00:04:38 --> 00:04:42 And I told them and they were like, well, you need to tell mom and dad.
00:04:42 --> 00:04:44 And they were very supportive and kind.
00:04:45 --> 00:04:49 But they let me decide when to tell my parents. And again, that was six months later.
00:04:49 --> 00:04:52 I sat down and I told them and they,
00:04:53 --> 00:04:59 I did not get the support that I needed. I was completely left alone in dealing with that.
00:04:59 --> 00:05:03 And that has shaped me in so many ways.
00:05:03 --> 00:05:07 Oh, I can only imagine. And I think it's also important here for context for
00:05:07 --> 00:05:11 people who may be listening to us for the first time and hearing your story for the first time.
00:05:12 --> 00:05:19 You spent your childhood as a member of the fundamentalist Church of Latter-day
00:05:19 --> 00:05:23 Saints polygamy cult. That was your life.
00:05:23 --> 00:05:30 Warren Jeffs is your uncle. You sat in a pew a few feet away from Warren Jeffs
00:05:30 --> 00:05:34 every morning of your life throughout your entire childhood.
00:05:34 --> 00:05:40 Everything must have been a sin in the community that you were a part of.
00:05:40 --> 00:05:45 And so the idea of acknowledging any of those things, saying them out loud,
00:05:45 --> 00:05:48 must have been terrifying to you.
00:05:49 --> 00:05:54 So I think that's just an important piece of your story to make sure that we
00:05:54 --> 00:06:00 weave into everything because so much of what's happened to you, where you've come from,
00:06:00 --> 00:06:04 is directly a result of how you were raised in that environment.
00:06:06 --> 00:06:11 Yeah. Being quiet, keeping the peace. We don't talk about what goes on at home.
00:06:11 --> 00:06:15 I knew we were different, you know, when we go to the grocery store and things like that.
00:06:15 --> 00:06:22 But and I genuinely thought that I was truly alone in my sexual abuse.
00:06:22 --> 00:06:25 I but as I've gotten older and
00:06:25 --> 00:06:29 I've come into contact with more people from the FLDS that
00:06:29 --> 00:06:32 have left it is absolutely so incredibly rampant
00:06:32 --> 00:06:37 throughout the entire community of sexual abuse that occurred inside the homes
00:06:37 --> 00:06:41 yeah yeah and that's look you you only need to to look at Hulu or Netflix and
00:06:41 --> 00:06:49 and every other documentary seems to be about the FLDS or about your uncle or
00:06:49 --> 00:06:50 about the polygamous lifestyle.
00:06:50 --> 00:06:58 And it's just such a shame that it is so rampant and so many people's lives
00:06:58 --> 00:07:02 have been so impacted in such horrific ways because of it.
00:07:03 --> 00:07:07 So let's turn back to the attempts that you made.
00:07:07 --> 00:07:10 You've said before to me, when you and I have talked kind of offline.
00:07:11 --> 00:07:18 That each attempt was different, that it wasn't just a dark night repeated over and over and over again.
00:07:18 --> 00:07:25 And it was this evolution of living in such deep, thick trauma and dealing with
00:07:25 --> 00:07:27 flashbacks and abuse and just trying to survive.
00:07:28 --> 00:07:30 What changed between your first and your second and your third?
00:07:31 --> 00:07:34 And you just you just admitted that there were actually really five in your mind.
00:07:35 --> 00:07:37 What changed? How did those differ?
00:07:38 --> 00:07:43 Well, the second one, and this was where I considered my first true attempt.
00:07:43 --> 00:07:50 I was 19, and my boyfriend at the time abruptly ended our relationship.
00:07:50 --> 00:07:53 No warning, just abruptly ended our relationship over the phone,
00:07:53 --> 00:07:55 and it absolutely crushed me.
00:07:55 --> 00:07:59 I was so madly in love with him, and I...
00:08:00 --> 00:08:06 Just, I didn't know how to handle that pain. And I, it was the next day,
00:08:06 --> 00:08:10 I knew that my sister Jenny had a gun, and I knew she was going to be out of
00:08:10 --> 00:08:12 her house at this specific time.
00:08:12 --> 00:08:16 And I drove over to her house, I got in her closet, and I went out to the back
00:08:16 --> 00:08:18 deck and was sitting out there with the gun in my lap.
00:08:19 --> 00:08:21 It was just this little tiny, I think she called it a black widow gun.
00:08:22 --> 00:08:27 And I was just sobbing, crying, just wanting to be out of this pain,
00:08:27 --> 00:08:29 this hole that I was falling down.
00:08:29 --> 00:08:35 I didn't want to be without him. I didn't know how to exist in a world without
00:08:35 --> 00:08:38 this person that I absolutely was madly in love with.
00:08:39 --> 00:08:44 And I put the gun to my head and I pulled the trigger, but it didn't fire.
00:08:45 --> 00:08:49 And I'd handled guns a little bit and I looked down and I saw this little red
00:08:49 --> 00:08:51 switch and I was like, oh, the safety.
00:08:52 --> 00:08:55 And I flicked the switch, the safety off and right
00:08:55 --> 00:08:58 at that moment jenny walked out your sister came
00:08:58 --> 00:09:02 out yeah i i don't remember doing this but i
00:09:02 --> 00:09:05 pointed the gun at her oh god and i
00:09:05 --> 00:09:08 do have no memory of of doing this and she talked me
00:09:08 --> 00:09:11 down and was able to get the gun out of my hand and
00:09:11 --> 00:09:16 it's kind of a blur i remember my dad showing up i don't know why my mom didn't
00:09:16 --> 00:09:21 come but i know that my dad did they i think they were on the phone with us
00:09:21 --> 00:09:25 until health hospitals they were and I talked to somebody but I said I was okay
00:09:25 --> 00:09:30 I really I honestly don't know why I didn't end up on a 72-hour hold.
00:09:31 --> 00:09:37 And, again, I was just sent back home to my apartment and left to deal with
00:09:37 --> 00:09:42 it on my own. I think my best friend came and spent the night or two with me
00:09:42 --> 00:09:45 and tried to support me as best we could.
00:09:45 --> 00:09:49 I think my brother David, he's one of my brothers that committed suicide.
00:09:49 --> 00:09:53 I do remember him coming over occasionally to check on me.
00:09:53 --> 00:09:58 But, again, I just was left to deal with it, and it was swept under the rug,
00:09:58 --> 00:10:05 and it was not talked about, really. What about the following attempt after that experience?
00:10:05 --> 00:10:09 So that was in September of 2004.
00:10:11 --> 00:10:15 And then I just went on with my life. I started college. I was working full-time,
00:10:15 --> 00:10:18 going to school full-time, was living with a roommate.
00:10:18 --> 00:10:23 Life was good. I got back together with my boyfriend, who is now my husband.
00:10:23 --> 00:10:27 I do want to say that he is a wonderful man, and he's come a long way.
00:10:27 --> 00:10:32 And we've been together for going on 22 years now, and I wouldn't be here without him.
00:10:34 --> 00:10:40 We had rekindled our relationship, and I don't remember why I was just in this
00:10:40 --> 00:10:43 dark place. I was in therapy, actively in therapy.
00:10:44 --> 00:10:48 And I think I remember specifically, I'd switched over to a new therapist in
00:10:48 --> 00:10:50 this practice. I'd had my first session with him.
00:10:51 --> 00:10:58 And was telling him where I was at And I apologize I don't really remember much
00:10:58 --> 00:11:06 of that session But I know that within a few days I was when I attempted the next time And I,
00:11:07 --> 00:11:11 went to Lowe's and I bought a box of rat poison.
00:11:11 --> 00:11:16 I had two partial bottles of narcotics that I had left over from previous surgeries.
00:11:17 --> 00:11:20 I wrote my suicide note. I have it still.
00:11:21 --> 00:11:24 And I swallowed the remaining narcotics.
00:11:24 --> 00:11:30 And then I just proceeded to sit there and shovel handfuls of rat poison in my mouth.
00:11:31 --> 00:11:35 And I laid there in bed and hours went by.
00:11:36 --> 00:11:39 I wouldn't die. And this time, and I actually still had the scar,
00:11:40 --> 00:11:43 I did try to slit my wrist, but the knife was not sharp enough.
00:11:44 --> 00:11:50 And I just went to bed, got up the next morning and went to work.
00:11:51 --> 00:11:56 That's, God, that's, I mean, neither one of us is laughing out of humor.
00:11:56 --> 00:12:02 We're laughing out of, It's almost like hysteria.
00:12:02 --> 00:12:07 It is absolute asinine that I'm just like, no, we'll just go about our day.
00:12:07 --> 00:12:12 You're just inhuman is what I think it really means. You're just made of steel
00:12:12 --> 00:12:15 somehow. You are supposed to be here, my friend.
00:12:15 --> 00:12:20 I mean, that's all I can say. I'm not taking this lightly for anybody who's listening.
00:12:20 --> 00:12:23 I'm not taking this lightly in any way at all.
00:12:24 --> 00:12:29 It's more out of amazement. It's just shock and disbelief and just utter amazement
00:12:29 --> 00:12:31 that I listened to you share this.
00:12:31 --> 00:12:33 And first of all, just...
00:12:34 --> 00:12:38 Thank you for just being so willing. I know there are a lot of people who keep
00:12:38 --> 00:12:42 their own attempts very, very private, and I have nothing but respect for those
00:12:42 --> 00:12:46 people who don't feel that that information is something that they want to share or can share.
00:12:46 --> 00:12:51 It's too triggering. I understand that. And then there are people who feel like
00:12:51 --> 00:12:52 they do want to talk about it.
00:12:52 --> 00:12:56 And for whatever it is that motivates you to want to talk about it,
00:12:56 --> 00:13:00 I just very deeply appreciate you
00:13:00 --> 00:13:03 for being so honest and transparent and saying, look, I did this thing.
00:13:03 --> 00:13:07 I did this really hard, ugly, traumatic, awful, scary thing.
00:13:07 --> 00:13:10 And this is where I am now because of that.
00:13:11 --> 00:13:14 And this is what I've learned from it. And this is how I've moved past it.
00:13:14 --> 00:13:17 And this is how it's woven into my life. And I think that's
00:13:17 --> 00:13:19 such a powerful experience for those of us who are
00:13:19 --> 00:13:25 listening to you to have because it shows that it shows the exact nature of
00:13:25 --> 00:13:31 why you and I are doing what we're doing is to help people understand that there
00:13:31 --> 00:13:35 is a way to survive and there is a way to find hope and move forward and make
00:13:35 --> 00:13:39 something positive out of something so, so terrible.
00:13:39 --> 00:13:42 So just appreciate you. That's all. That's all that meant.
00:13:43 --> 00:13:45 It's a long winded way of saying I really appreciate you.
00:13:46 --> 00:13:51 So, okay, so we've talked about most of your attempts.
00:13:51 --> 00:13:55 I don't know where, are we missing one? Well, yeah, we're missing a number of them.
00:13:56 --> 00:13:59 48 hours later, I planned to try again. Okay.
00:14:00 --> 00:14:06 And I think at this point, my roommate and my dad and my boyfriend,
00:14:06 --> 00:14:09 George, and my husband, were aware.
00:14:09 --> 00:14:14 I think I had told them. And I do remember my dad coming over and consoling
00:14:14 --> 00:14:19 me and just reminding me how much he loved me and George begging me,
00:14:19 --> 00:14:21 please don't do this, please don't leave me.
00:14:21 --> 00:14:25 And I also remember my roommate, Ashley, she was really upset with my family
00:14:25 --> 00:14:29 for just leaving me alone to deal with all this because she was aware of everything.
00:14:30 --> 00:14:32 I remember getting mad at somebody on the phone.
00:14:33 --> 00:14:37 And so my dad left and told him I was fine. I wasn't going to do anything.
00:14:37 --> 00:14:42 But I was honest with George. And I told him because he wanted to commit me.
00:14:42 --> 00:14:44 And I said, look, you've got a choice here.
00:14:44 --> 00:14:47 I'm going to do it no matter what you do. You can go ahead and commit me.
00:14:48 --> 00:14:51 They're going to put me on hold and drag me up or do whatever.
00:14:52 --> 00:14:55 I'll just do what they tell me to do and I'll get out and I'll do it again.
00:14:55 --> 00:15:02 I was fully committed to ending my life. 100% I just would not Deal with the
00:15:02 --> 00:15:06 darkness And this hole that I was in This just.
00:15:07 --> 00:15:11 It was eating me alive. Yeah, I mean, that was kind of a rhetorical question
00:15:11 --> 00:15:15 on my part, because anyone who has sat here for the last 16 minutes listening
00:15:15 --> 00:15:19 to what you've been through would understand exactly why.
00:15:19 --> 00:15:25 Because when you have been subjected to that kind of trauma and have had that
00:15:25 --> 00:15:32 kind of upbringing, how could you not want to escape that?
00:15:32 --> 00:15:37 So, yeah, I understand. And it makes, I mean, unfortunately, it makes sense.
00:15:37 --> 00:15:43 I mean, for you to have to live with that in your head, in your heart,
00:15:43 --> 00:15:47 and navigate that and try to live a, you know, I'm doing air quotes here,
00:15:48 --> 00:15:54 normal life at the same time is almost unrealistic in a lot of ways without
00:15:54 --> 00:15:57 at least an awful lot of support. Yeah.
00:15:58 --> 00:16:04 And you weren't getting that. No, I wasn't. No. So he said goodbye to me,
00:16:04 --> 00:16:08 knowing that he was probably never going to see me again.
00:16:09 --> 00:16:14 And he said he drove home. It was a 45-minute drive. And he said he and George does not cry.
00:16:14 --> 00:16:19 And he said he sobbed the whole way home, knowing that he was not going to see me again.
00:16:20 --> 00:16:25 And so that night, I had just refilled a prescription for Lunesta sleeping pills.
00:16:26 --> 00:16:30 There was 33 of them. Count them out. Another suicide note.
00:16:30 --> 00:16:32 And I took all of the pills.
00:16:33 --> 00:16:37 And I laid there in my bed, just waiting to die.
00:16:38 --> 00:16:43 And there were moments where I felt like I was drifting off.
00:16:44 --> 00:16:49 But it was the weirdest sensation, and it felt like somebody was shocking me with a defibrillator.
00:16:50 --> 00:16:56 And that happened probably three times, and I felt the presence of Klain and
00:16:56 --> 00:17:02 David, who are the first two brothers of mine that committed suicide in 2002 and 2005.
00:17:03 --> 00:17:07 I felt them there with me. Hello, my friend.
00:17:07 --> 00:17:12 My name is Aaron Mashpitz, and I'm the founder and owner of You Are Loved,
00:17:12 --> 00:17:16 which is a non-profit mental health organization dedicated to spreading awareness
00:17:16 --> 00:17:19 and breaking the stigma around suicide and mental illness.
00:17:19 --> 00:17:24 We exist to offer a beacon of love to all people living with mental health conditions.
00:17:25 --> 00:17:29 The inspiration and reason behind You Are Loved is my big sister,
00:17:29 --> 00:17:32 Rachel, who died by suicide in 2018.
00:17:32 --> 00:17:38 The mission of You Are Loved is to remind us all that even in our darkest moment,
00:17:38 --> 00:17:42 you are absolutely loved and you're not alone.
00:17:42 --> 00:17:49 So to learn more, please visit youarelovedlife.com and use the discount code
00:17:49 --> 00:17:54 SURVIVOR10 for 10% off all You Are Loved merchandise. Thank you.
00:17:56 --> 00:18:00 And it was about four o'clock in the morning, and I was still awake.
00:18:00 --> 00:18:03 And in this very, you know, when you take that many sleeping pills,
00:18:03 --> 00:18:06 you're very lethargic and just you're not coherent, really.
00:18:06 --> 00:18:11 But I do remember calling George and just sobbing, and he was obviously surprised
00:18:11 --> 00:18:13 to have a phone call from me.
00:18:13 --> 00:18:17 And I was just very upset, and I told him, why won't I just die?
00:18:17 --> 00:18:22 I was mad. I was really, really upset that I wouldn't just die. Yeah.
00:18:23 --> 00:18:26 And so he said, try to get some sleep if you can. He's like,
00:18:26 --> 00:18:28 I'll come get you for work in the morning.
00:18:28 --> 00:18:35 It was Halloween 2006. I, again, just got up the next morning and went to work. It's unbelievable.
00:18:35 --> 00:18:43 I mean, really, it really is unprecedented that after taking 33 sleeping pills,
00:18:44 --> 00:18:47 you are up and on time for work the next day.
00:18:48 --> 00:18:51 I mean, and again, here we are, we're sitting here laughing,
00:18:51 --> 00:18:52 but look, this is life, friends.
00:18:52 --> 00:18:55 Like, if you're listening to us and you're listening to Natasha,
00:18:55 --> 00:19:00 she has come from one of the deepest, darkest places anyone could ever come from.
00:19:01 --> 00:19:06 And you're out here now saying, okay, it was crazy. It was absurd.
00:19:07 --> 00:19:11 It was brutally hard and traumatizing in all the ways.
00:19:11 --> 00:19:14 And God, if I can't laugh about some of it,
00:19:14 --> 00:19:18 I mean, you and I have talked a lot about this, about how you are with some
00:19:18 --> 00:19:24 of your siblings, that you will just try your best to at least keep a sense
00:19:24 --> 00:19:28 of humor so that you can feel a little bit more grounded somehow.
00:19:28 --> 00:19:32 But yeah, that's it. And it's probably off-putting, very off-putting to people.
00:19:33 --> 00:19:39 Like, how could I be talking about ending my life and laughing at the same time? I don't know how.
00:19:39 --> 00:19:44 It's just the way my body has and my mind has chosen to deal with the hard things.
00:19:44 --> 00:19:51 And in speaking with a psychologist that my brain has rewired the really traumatic stuff.
00:19:53 --> 00:19:57 So I have an inappropriate reaction. And that's just how my brain has chosen
00:19:57 --> 00:20:00 to deal with it. So, yes, it is an inappropriate reaction.
00:20:00 --> 00:20:05 It's literally nothing that I can help because that's how my brain has chosen to deal with it.
00:20:05 --> 00:20:08 Well, and too, this is, I mean, when you're talking in the sense of context
00:20:08 --> 00:20:12 of you and your siblings who kind of have that dynamic together and sometimes
00:20:12 --> 00:20:17 will go to that place where you're kind of laughing or joking about something that was horrible.
00:20:18 --> 00:20:26 Clearly, this is your trauma. No one gets to tell you or them how to either
00:20:26 --> 00:20:33 grieve if it's over a loss, how to deal with some kind of a traumatic episode.
00:20:33 --> 00:20:39 You get to decide that on your own. There is no one who has the right to tell
00:20:39 --> 00:20:43 you what you can and can't do as your way of surviving that.
00:20:43 --> 00:20:47 So, but I appreciate you saying, just for anybody who may be listening,
00:20:48 --> 00:20:52 who may think, wow, that's a very unusual response.
00:20:52 --> 00:20:58 Well, you understand that everybody has a different way of expressing themselves
00:20:58 --> 00:21:01 and internalizing the feelings that they feel.
00:21:01 --> 00:21:07 So nothing is invalid when it is a way that you're coping with your experience. Period. Hard stop.
00:21:07 --> 00:21:14 End of story. I agree. So we've talked for the better part of this episode about
00:21:14 --> 00:21:20 you and your attempts and where you were at and the environment you were raised
00:21:20 --> 00:21:27 in and how that cult environment contributed to the sexual abuse you've endured. Yeah.
00:21:27 --> 00:21:33 The depression that you navigated most of your life, let's switch things to
00:21:33 --> 00:21:38 the other side of the suicide conversation, not the attempt side.
00:21:38 --> 00:21:43 Let's switch to the other side that you have also probably had more experience
00:21:43 --> 00:21:50 with than any single family I've ever heard of, which is to lose five of your brothers to suicide.
00:21:50 --> 00:21:54 And I know we've got about, I would say, maybe 10 minutes left, give or take.
00:21:54 --> 00:22:00 If you can, and you feel like you want to give people a synopsis of who you've
00:22:00 --> 00:22:02 lost, when that started,
00:22:02 --> 00:22:09 and how that's been for you and for your family, losing five brothers to suicide.
00:22:10 --> 00:22:15 So our first loss in our family was the loss of Clayne's daughter,
00:22:15 --> 00:22:17 Cheyenne. She died in 97.
00:22:18 --> 00:22:22 She was a baby. She died of SIDS. It was very, very sad. And we dealt with that
00:22:22 --> 00:22:30 the best that we could. and claim, gone with his life and started a new family and got married.
00:22:30 --> 00:22:36 But he had always been troubled and really struggled with drug addiction and
00:22:36 --> 00:22:39 just was getting into trouble, things like that.
00:22:39 --> 00:22:46 And it came out about 18 months before he took his life through hypnotherapy
00:22:46 --> 00:22:48 that he realized he had been severely,
00:22:48 --> 00:22:54 and I believe amongst all of our siblings, the most abused sexually by our uncles.
00:22:55 --> 00:22:56 Just absolutely brutal.
00:22:57 --> 00:23:01 And again, it was blocked from his memory, and he was dealing with that,
00:23:01 --> 00:23:03 and he just couldn't take it anymore.
00:23:03 --> 00:23:08 And one night, with his wife and children in the home, he put a shotgun in his mouth. Okay.
00:23:09 --> 00:23:11 And that was in January of 2002.
00:23:13 --> 00:23:18 That actually occurred, I think, just a few months after my first attempt and
00:23:18 --> 00:23:23 telling my parents about my initial, about my abuse and things like that.
00:23:23 --> 00:23:28 So, again, just dealing with my family, just trying to, I don't know,
00:23:28 --> 00:23:30 it just, nothing was dealt with.
00:23:30 --> 00:23:35 We just attended his funeral and then we went on with our lives.
00:23:35 --> 00:23:40 And there was a lot of inner turmoil going on within our family at the time.
00:23:40 --> 00:23:44 Our parents flooding out there was multiple
00:23:44 --> 00:23:47 siblings of mine that were getting married and divorced it
00:23:47 --> 00:23:54 just there was a lot going on in the early 2000s in our family in 2005 our brother
00:23:54 --> 00:23:59 david again was going through a really difficult time within his marriage finding
00:23:59 --> 00:24:04 out that the child that he thought was his child was actually not biologically
00:24:04 --> 00:24:06 his child his wife cheated on him.
00:24:08 --> 00:24:12 And he overdosed on narcotics
00:24:12 --> 00:24:15 we initially just thought that it wasn't
00:24:15 --> 00:24:18 an attempt but obviously with the family history and looking back and
00:24:18 --> 00:24:22 conversations with a couple of my brothers that were really close then you know
00:24:22 --> 00:24:28 we believe that he was a suicide as well and so we just again went on with our
00:24:28 --> 00:24:33 lives clean and david were both 28 when they died and so when each of the brothers
00:24:33 --> 00:24:35 would then get to their 28th year of life.
00:24:36 --> 00:24:42 After that, we were just all kind of on edge if anybody was 28 that year. And Corey...
00:24:43 --> 00:24:49 Actually made it through to 28. He waited until he was 28. Your third brother
00:24:49 --> 00:24:51 to take his life. Okay. Yeah.
00:24:51 --> 00:24:53 So, yeah, we're into 2022 now.
00:24:54 --> 00:24:58 Everybody was good. We were getting on with our lives.
00:24:59 --> 00:25:04 And Corey, we all knew, had been struggling with mental health. He was in therapy.
00:25:04 --> 00:25:07 He was literally the poster child for mental health. He was in therapy.
00:25:07 --> 00:25:12 He was doing yoga and meditation and taking antidepressants, doing all the things.
00:25:14 --> 00:25:22 And we got a call that he took his life on a nature trail at the mouth of Little
00:25:22 --> 00:25:24 Cottonwood Canyon where we grew up.
00:25:24 --> 00:25:33 And I mean, talk about gut-wrenching. He's the youngest brother that we have, and it just gutted us.
00:25:34 --> 00:25:37 Because he was absolutely adored. He was the sweetest, kindest,
00:25:38 --> 00:25:41 skull would never hurt a fly and it just
00:25:41 --> 00:25:46 ripped us apart and the
00:25:46 --> 00:25:49 next week was thanksgiving and i do want to preface that he left a suicide note
00:25:49 --> 00:25:54 and it was so sweet and so eloquent and he had said he'd been trying for months
00:25:54 --> 00:25:59 and he couldn't stress it enough that there was nothing any of us could do to
00:25:59 --> 00:26:05 stop him he just was tired of dealing with the darkness it was eating him alive.
00:26:07 --> 00:26:12 And to my knowledge, and I've asked him directly if he had been abused or anything
00:26:12 --> 00:26:18 like that, and he said there was no sexual abuse, but he did endure some sibling
00:26:18 --> 00:26:21 abuse and lack of parental empathy, I would say.
00:26:22 --> 00:26:25 He had asked his mother to go to therapy when he was 14, and he was told that
00:26:25 --> 00:26:27 they didn't have the money for it, which...
00:26:28 --> 00:26:33 Again, we're just children trying to deal with all this trauma,
00:26:33 --> 00:26:36 and we're just like, well, figure it out.
00:26:36 --> 00:26:39 So now we're up to brother number four.
00:26:39 --> 00:26:42 Mm-hmm. And that was much more recently.
00:26:43 --> 00:26:47 No. So Corey died in November 2022.
00:26:47 --> 00:26:53 Okay. Okay. And then six weeks later, my maternal grandfather passed away of old age in his vet.
00:26:54 --> 00:26:57 Two weeks later, our dad died of cancer.
00:26:57 --> 00:27:01 Mm-hmm. And then I think it was about 10 weeks later, so we're into March,
00:27:01 --> 00:27:04 April of 2023, and then Brandon committed suicide.
00:27:05 --> 00:27:09 And he was actually missing for a week before they found his body.
00:27:09 --> 00:27:13 Yeah, I remember you shared that story with us. And I won't go into detail with that.
00:27:14 --> 00:27:18 But so, yeah, we lost four family members in the course of five months.
00:27:18 --> 00:27:21 And I mean, it was just more than we could bear.
00:27:21 --> 00:27:27 It literally was just more than we could bear. I spent so much time in my bed
00:27:27 --> 00:27:32 just trying to exist, just trying to get through the day. I slept a lot.
00:27:32 --> 00:27:38 I would lay outside on the trampoline just trying to get the sun on my body
00:27:38 --> 00:27:41 and just feel better any way I possibly could.
00:27:41 --> 00:27:43 It was just absolutely more than we could bear.
00:27:44 --> 00:27:50 And it was around this time where my final attempt came into play.
00:27:50 --> 00:27:53 Losing Brandon and not getting to.
00:27:53 --> 00:27:58 Say goodbye to him properly. I just really struggled. And obviously,
00:27:58 --> 00:28:01 it's the compound effect of losing so many people at once.
00:28:02 --> 00:28:08 And Easter Sunday, I had just had enough and I sent my husband and children
00:28:08 --> 00:28:13 to my cousin's house for Easter dinner and I wrote my goodbye letters.
00:28:14 --> 00:28:19 After Corey did what he did, because four of the five brothers have passed away
00:28:19 --> 00:28:22 with self-inflicted gunshot wounds.
00:28:22 --> 00:28:25 And so guns are obviously very much guarded.
00:28:26 --> 00:28:31 And so my husband had, after Corey died, had hidden the guns and the ammo so
00:28:31 --> 00:28:32 that I couldn't have access to it.
00:28:32 --> 00:28:35 Obviously, he's very aware of my attempts at the past.
00:28:36 --> 00:28:40 So while they were gone, I went down to the basement and I tried to find them.
00:28:41 --> 00:28:44 And I couldn't find them, so I was like, alright, well, I'll go upstairs and
00:28:44 --> 00:28:47 I'll try to write my letter to my children.
00:28:48 --> 00:28:54 And I could not say goodbye to my children.
00:28:55 --> 00:29:01 So when I say that my children have literally saved my life, they have saved my life.
00:29:01 --> 00:29:03 And I don't know if they'll ever know that.
00:29:04 --> 00:29:08 They will. They will. Someday they'll hear this conversation when they're old enough.
00:29:08 --> 00:29:12 Someday they'll know exactly how strong their mama is.
00:29:12 --> 00:29:17 But I have a funny feeling they already do. They'll just learn. They'll learn more.
00:29:17 --> 00:29:22 Yeah. And I've been very careful about what they know and when.
00:29:23 --> 00:29:30 And so I couldn't just, I put the letters away.
00:29:30 --> 00:29:33 I went upstairs and I took a bath and I just was like, you know,
00:29:34 --> 00:29:36 I'm going to give it my best shot.
00:29:36 --> 00:29:45 And it is literally every day waking up and choosing life and choosing to be
00:29:45 --> 00:29:47 here and be present, do the hard work,
00:29:48 --> 00:29:54 do the literal never-ending work of healing and dealing with it all because it just doesn't stop.
00:29:54 --> 00:30:00 You know, I love that you just said what you said, because that is the point
00:30:00 --> 00:30:02 of what you and I are here doing.
00:30:02 --> 00:30:10 It's about showing up fully, completely, being vulnerable, saying this happened,
00:30:10 --> 00:30:13 or this is what I was doing, or this is what I was thinking,
00:30:13 --> 00:30:15 and this is how I'm hurting.
00:30:15 --> 00:30:19 This is how I'm having trouble surviving. And it's not about erasing the pain.
00:30:19 --> 00:30:23 It's about finding a way to carry it, which is what you've done.
00:30:23 --> 00:30:24 You're such a poster child for this.
00:30:25 --> 00:30:30 Carrying it differently. You are proof that survival is not just about staying
00:30:30 --> 00:30:33 alive. It's about reclaiming your story. That's what you're doing.
00:30:33 --> 00:30:38 That's what I'm trying to do. That's what we together are trying to do here.
00:30:39 --> 00:30:41 So that brings you up.
00:30:42 --> 00:30:47 To your brother this year. I believe it was in March. Was it in March? Yeah.
00:30:48 --> 00:30:52 And I, my husband and children and I went on a journey last year,
00:30:52 --> 00:30:56 traveled full-time in our RV for eight months, and we went to national parks.
00:30:56 --> 00:31:00 And that was so incredibly healing for me, being in these beautiful,
00:31:00 --> 00:31:05 grand places. And it was interesting how in each park, I would feel a different
00:31:05 --> 00:31:07 presence of a lost loved one.
00:31:08 --> 00:31:14 And I would just be with it. And it was so incredibly healing for me and I enjoyed it.
00:31:14 --> 00:31:19 And then my husband and I settled back down in Virginia with our children.
00:31:19 --> 00:31:26 And I was just fully committed to being the best version of myself when we moved
00:31:26 --> 00:31:31 into our house here and reading all the books, doing all these things.
00:31:31 --> 00:31:37 And then Monroe had been, and he's the fifth brother that took his life.
00:31:37 --> 00:31:40 He had been talking about it for months. He was a A heavy alcoholic,
00:31:41 --> 00:31:44 he would call people drunk and cry and tell them he wanted to end his life.
00:31:44 --> 00:31:47 And it kind of was like the boy who cried wolf.
00:31:47 --> 00:31:51 But everybody just, when he would call them, they would remind him how much
00:31:51 --> 00:31:53 they were loved and how much he was cherished.
00:31:53 --> 00:31:57 And please don't do this. We can't do another loss. It's just too much.
00:31:59 --> 00:32:03 And he kind of disappeared for five days. And our poor nephew,
00:32:03 --> 00:32:07 he was sharing an apartment with our nephew, and he found him.
00:32:08 --> 00:32:19 In his chair and it just getting that phone call literally just everything in my soul left my body,
00:32:20 --> 00:32:23 and what my children and George just
00:32:23 --> 00:32:27 surrounding me as I just fell apart again and
00:32:27 --> 00:32:30 every time there's a loss especially from
00:32:30 --> 00:32:33 suicide it's it's like carrying around an open wound
00:32:33 --> 00:32:36 a deep open wound it is you learn to just
00:32:36 --> 00:32:39 put a bandage over it and it kind of closes a
00:32:39 --> 00:32:42 little bit but it's a gaping wound but then every time
00:32:42 --> 00:32:45 there's another death that bandage gets ripped
00:32:45 --> 00:32:50 off the wound gets bigger deeper and starts hemorrhaging again yep i get it
00:32:50 --> 00:32:57 i get it and it's just absolutely unbearable and so go back into that cycle
00:32:57 --> 00:33:04 of laying in bed just hoping to survive and the The first 90 days is just rugged,
00:33:04 --> 00:33:06 absolutely rugged.
00:33:06 --> 00:33:13 And then there's some white coats. So now you still have 15 or 15 of you still left.
00:33:13 --> 00:33:17 It's not only probably just about your own survival and how do you navigate
00:33:17 --> 00:33:20 that kind of extreme, unfathomable grief.
00:33:20 --> 00:33:27 But now you're worrying about the other 14 who are as at risk in probably most
00:33:27 --> 00:33:33 cases as the others who have taken their lives. Everybody is part of the same family.
00:33:33 --> 00:33:41 Everybody has the same shared lived experience, upbringing, community experience.
00:33:41 --> 00:33:43 So everybody is susceptible.
00:33:44 --> 00:33:47 So you're worrying not only about yourself, but you're worrying about your family
00:33:47 --> 00:33:51 members and then you're worrying about your children. and there are so many
00:33:51 --> 00:33:57 different facets of it that must just fill every thought in your head.
00:33:58 --> 00:34:03 So it's no wonder why you're left behind,
00:34:03 --> 00:34:08 pretty much paralyzed after an experience like that, one compounded over another over another.
00:34:09 --> 00:34:13 And it honestly is unimaginable. And I want to say this.
00:34:13 --> 00:34:16 I want to take a second before we wrap up. I know we went a little long,
00:34:16 --> 00:34:19 but I think it was so important for you to be able to share your.
00:34:20 --> 00:34:24 Full experience with everyone so everyone really gets to know you and where
00:34:24 --> 00:34:29 you came from and why you are such a powerful presence here on this platform.
00:34:30 --> 00:34:35 I just want to say as someone who is now not only your co-host,
00:34:36 --> 00:34:40 but your friend and someone who cares about you, I'm so sorry.
00:34:40 --> 00:34:43 Like just everything that you've had to deal with.
00:34:43 --> 00:34:46 I know I'm sitting here saying the thing that I imagine most people listening
00:34:46 --> 00:34:52 are thinking, which is we're just so sorry that this is what you've had to deal with.
00:34:52 --> 00:34:58 And we're so grateful that you're here choosing to talk about this,
00:34:58 --> 00:35:04 choosing to help others navigate something similar in their own life.
00:35:04 --> 00:35:10 So I just, I didn't want to let an opportunity like that go by to not say how
00:35:10 --> 00:35:12 grateful I am and I know others are too.
00:35:12 --> 00:35:16 So if you're listening to our conversation today and something hits you and
00:35:16 --> 00:35:22 I couldn't possibly imagine how it wouldn't in a thousand different ways, take a breath, okay?
00:35:22 --> 00:35:26 I mean, we all, I feel like just you take one, I'll take one,
00:35:26 --> 00:35:28 they'll take one. We don't have to hold this alone.
00:35:29 --> 00:35:33 You and I are continuing to create a community here. This is not just a place
00:35:33 --> 00:35:36 where we want to come and share our experience and maybe the stories of others.
00:35:36 --> 00:35:41 This is a place where we're building community. So.
00:35:42 --> 00:35:48 Here's what Natasha's story teaches me, and hopefully it will teach you if you're listening the same.
00:35:48 --> 00:35:51 Surviving suicide is not a single moment.
00:35:52 --> 00:35:58 Clearly, you've had many of these moments. It's a lifelong commitment to healing, and it has to be.
00:35:59 --> 00:36:03 Also, grief does not end. It never ends. And I'm not just talking suicide grief.
00:36:03 --> 00:36:08 I'm talking grief as it finds us.
00:36:08 --> 00:36:14 It evolves. and that evolution is rooted in love because if we didn't love the
00:36:14 --> 00:36:18 people who we've lost, we wouldn't be so hurt and devastated when they're gone.
00:36:19 --> 00:36:23 And the last thing is that even when you've lost so, so much,
00:36:24 --> 00:36:31 you can still find meaning in the act of staying and that's what you're doing
00:36:31 --> 00:36:36 and that's what I've tried to do and in the act of sharing what you've gone
00:36:36 --> 00:36:39 through with other people around you.
00:36:39 --> 00:36:46 So as we wrap what is just yet another beautiful conversation,
00:36:46 --> 00:36:50 hard one but beautiful one, just a reminder, if you're out there listening,
00:36:50 --> 00:36:53 if you or someone you care about is struggling,
00:36:54 --> 00:36:58 reach out, call 988, text 988, the Suicide and Crisis Lifeline.
00:36:58 --> 00:37:01 And help is always, always out there.
00:37:01 --> 00:37:06 Nash, thanks for your courage, for letting us just be a part of the story.
00:37:06 --> 00:37:12 And to everybody who's listening, grief takes time. It takes time. It takes community.
00:37:13 --> 00:37:17 Take care of your heart and know that survival is not about being unbroken.
00:37:17 --> 00:37:22 It's just about being here and choosing to keep going every day.
00:37:22 --> 00:37:26 So we'll see you right back here next week. Until then, keep surviving, friends.
00:37:29 --> 00:37:33 Thanks so much for listening and for being part of the Survivors community.
00:37:33 --> 00:37:38 No matter where you are in your story, you're not alone and you're definitely not broken.
00:37:38 --> 00:37:42 Healing takes time and it looks different for everyone. The fact that you're
00:37:42 --> 00:37:46 still here and still trying means you're already doing the hard work.
00:37:46 --> 00:37:51 If something in today's conversation resonated with you, please share it with
00:37:51 --> 00:37:52 someone who might need to hear it too.
00:37:53 --> 00:37:57 That's how we keep these conversations going and remind each other that there's always hope.
00:37:58 --> 00:38:01 And if you or someone you know is struggling, please remember,
00:38:01 --> 00:38:02 help is always out there.
00:38:02 --> 00:38:07 You can call or text 988 anytime to reach a trained crisis counselor like me.
00:38:07 --> 00:38:11 And for more mental health resources, tools, treatment options,
00:38:11 --> 00:38:14 and content to support your mental health, visit thehelphub.co.
00:38:15 --> 00:38:18 We're so grateful you're part of the Survivors family, and we'll be back next
00:38:18 --> 00:38:22 week with another honest conversation about life after the hardest things.
00:38:22 --> 00:38:26 Until then, take care of yourself and your people, and keep surviving.
00:38:28 --> 00:38:29 Thank you.