*WARNING: This podcast mentions suicide & trauma and may be triggering.
Episode Summary
This week we're sharing part one of a two-part conversation with Ange Johnson. Ange, raised in the FLDS polygamous cult and married as a child bride, shares how she was raised, the beliefs that shaped her, the arranged marriage and unusual laundromat legal ceremony, and the early steps toward questioning and leaving that life.
Tune in for a raw, personal first half of Ange’s journey toward healing, escape. and ultimately freedom.
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Key Topics
- Growing up in the FLDS community
- Marriage at age 16 in the cult
- The process of leaving the FLDS and healing
- The impact of polygamous cults on families and individuals
- Ange Johnson’s personal journey of resilience and recovery
Chapters
00:00 - Introduction to Ange Johnson's Story 01:52 - What is the FLDS and its impact on families 11:59 - Ange’s childhood and family dynamic in the FLDS 22:06 - The arranged marriage and wedding in the laundromat 32:58 - The viral story and public exposure 40:51 - Leaving the FLDS and rebuilding life 49:59 - Reflections on trauma, healing, and resilience
Mental Health Resources
- If you or someone you know is struggling, please call 988 for help.
- The Survivors Podcast Website – https://thesurvivors.net/
- National Domestic Violence Hotline – Call 1-800-799-SAFE (7223)
- Surviving: Finding Hope After Suicide Loss (Familius Books)
- The HelpHUB™ – Mental health resources, tools, and support networks – https://www.thehelphub.co/
- Follow Ange Johnson on Instagram at angemfj and on TikTok at cadesbabe
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See you next week! In the meantime, keep surviving.
00:00:01 --> 00:00:04 Hey friends, before we dive into this week's episode, just a heads up.
00:00:05 --> 00:00:09 Our podcast talks about suicide, sexual abuse, and other trauma,
00:00:09 --> 00:00:13 and some of what you hear may be triggering. So please listen with care.
00:00:14 --> 00:00:19 This is The Survivors, real stories, raw conversations, and the truth about
00:00:19 --> 00:00:21 what it means to keep going after the hardest things.
00:00:22 --> 00:00:25 We're so glad you're here. Let's keep surviving together.
00:00:26 --> 00:00:30 This week on The Survivors, we're bringing you part one of our two-part conversation
00:00:30 --> 00:00:35 with Ange Johnson, who grew up in the FLDS polygamy cult and became a child bride.
00:00:36 --> 00:00:40 Ange takes us inside the world she was raised in, what she was taught to believe,
00:00:40 --> 00:00:43 and what it was like to begin questioning everything she'd ever known.
00:00:44 --> 00:00:46 Here's part one of Ange's incredible story.
00:00:48 --> 00:00:50 Did I count down? Did I miss it again?
00:00:52 --> 00:00:58 Every time. See? Every time. This is the best part of my day is when you have
00:00:58 --> 00:01:01 no idea that the countdown just happened. It doesn't show on my screen.
00:01:01 --> 00:01:04 Totally rolling. You know what? From now on, I'm going to do this.
00:01:04 --> 00:01:08 I'm going to do a countdown from now on. So, yes, yes, dear.
00:01:08 --> 00:01:10 We're recording. Let's continue.
00:01:10 --> 00:01:13 So, when I have it on my screen real small, it doesn't show me the countdown.
00:01:13 --> 00:01:17 And so, I'm just sitting here looking like a little penguin. It's all right.
00:01:18 --> 00:01:20 It's all right. We're keeping all this in, by the way. Yes.
00:01:21 --> 00:01:26 So, hey, welcome to the podcast, The Survivors. I am very excited about our guest today.
00:01:27 --> 00:01:31 She is somebody that I've known my whole life, but I've never met,
00:01:32 --> 00:01:33 if that's even possible.
00:01:33 --> 00:01:40 Intriguing. Yes, it is. Her name is Ange, and she too is from the FLDS community.
00:01:41 --> 00:01:48 And she has an amazing story. It's sad, but it's also incredibly beautiful what
00:01:48 --> 00:01:49 she has turned her life into.
00:01:49 --> 00:01:55 And so I just want to bring Ange on and say welcome. And we're so happy to have you here.
00:01:55 --> 00:01:59 Thank you so much. I'm so excited to chat with you guys. And yeah,
00:01:59 --> 00:02:05 kind of crazy growing up together, but never meeting and excited to get to know you.
00:02:05 --> 00:02:12 Yeah. So as I started sharing my story publicly last year, I have had numerous
00:02:12 --> 00:02:15 cousins reach out to me through social media.
00:02:16 --> 00:02:20 And Ange, I'm sure we're related. I'm not sure exactly how, but she is one of
00:02:20 --> 00:02:24 those who reached out to me. And she's like, hey, by the way,
00:02:24 --> 00:02:27 your grandfather is actually the one who performed my marriage.
00:02:29 --> 00:02:33 And she says, and actually, I was 15 at the time. And I said, well, that tracks me.
00:02:35 --> 00:02:39 So, Nash, can I interrupt you for one second just for context,
00:02:39 --> 00:02:44 just for the sake of people who might just be, maybe this is the first episode
00:02:44 --> 00:02:48 of The Survivors a listener has ever experienced, so they don't know my story,
00:02:48 --> 00:02:49 they don't know your story or Ange's story.
00:02:50 --> 00:02:55 You mentioned the FLDS. We all on the screen know what we're talking about.
00:02:55 --> 00:02:59 For the people who have no idea what that is, give the quick and dirty about
00:02:59 --> 00:03:02 the FLDS, what it stands for, what it is.
00:03:03 --> 00:03:08 Okay. So FLDS stands for Fundamentalist Latter-day Saints, and it's a polygamous
00:03:09 --> 00:03:11 cult that's a break-off of the mainstream Mormon church.
00:03:12 --> 00:03:18 And it was run most famously by Warren Jeffs, who is actually serving multiple
00:03:18 --> 00:03:22 life sentences in prison. I believe he's in Texas.
00:03:22 --> 00:03:27 And you know my grandfather before him was the prophet and so it's a you know
00:03:27 --> 00:03:31 polygamous cult where they're most famously known for child brides and,
00:03:32 --> 00:03:37 a lot of pretty awful things so you know I am the granddaughter of one of the
00:03:37 --> 00:03:42 prophets and Ange are you are you of any relation to Roland or Johnson or,
00:03:43 --> 00:03:45 Brother Johnson before that?
00:03:46 --> 00:03:51 All of the above so my grandfather is actually Woodruff Steed so I am actually
00:03:51 --> 00:03:57 Warren Jeff's cousin so my mom and our sisters so,
00:03:57 --> 00:04:03 yeah Natasha you're you're Warren Jeff's niece yes.
00:04:04 --> 00:04:09 And I'm no one by the way no she's a nobody wonderful amazing person I'm just
00:04:09 --> 00:04:11 a sugar man that's all right.
00:04:13 --> 00:04:22 So I left my family left the church in 97 how old were you at that time Ange? I would have been 11.
00:04:23 --> 00:04:26 Oh okay so we I so we're the same age I'm 41.
00:04:27 --> 00:04:31 Just 40 this last weekend. Oh happy birthday.
00:04:32 --> 00:04:37 Yeah that's exciting. So before we dive into like all the childhood stuff I
00:04:37 --> 00:04:41 want to know who Ange is today. Do you go by Ange or Angie?
00:04:41 --> 00:04:45 Ange I prefer. Ange yeah so tell me who are you today?
00:04:46 --> 00:04:49 Okay. Aside from all the FLDS stuff who are you today?
00:04:50 --> 00:04:54 Well, first and foremost, I'm a mother, and I have three amazing kids,
00:04:54 --> 00:05:00 and I'm a wife to my husband that I was actually arranged to in the cult,
00:05:00 --> 00:05:02 which is kind of a crazy story. We'll get to that.
00:05:03 --> 00:05:08 I'm a nurse, so I have my master's degree in nursing, and pretty proud of that.
00:05:08 --> 00:05:10 I'm a labor and delivery nurse.
00:05:10 --> 00:05:17 I own my own company that is a clothing company that the brand is called glimmers,
00:05:17 --> 00:05:19 in trauma I'm sure you know glimmers
00:05:19 --> 00:05:23 are the opposite of triggers and so I wanted to connect back to that,
00:05:24 --> 00:05:27 I designed super fun prints because as you know in,
00:05:28 --> 00:05:33 the FLDS we were allowed to wear plain colors and pinks and tans and that was
00:05:33 --> 00:05:39 not very fun for me as a child so I wanted fun things So I do that and I am just,
00:05:40 --> 00:05:41 I'm healing. That's who I am.
00:05:42 --> 00:05:48 I'm healing and growing through life. So I love that. And how long have you
00:05:48 --> 00:05:49 and your husband been married now?
00:05:51 --> 00:05:56 23 years. 23 years. Wow. There's a lot of similarities. I've been with my husband
00:05:56 --> 00:05:59 for almost 23 years myself.
00:06:00 --> 00:06:01 That's amazing.
00:06:02 --> 00:06:03 I'm not a child bride, though.
00:06:07 --> 00:06:11 So where did you grow up? Did you grow up in Colorado City? No,
00:06:11 --> 00:06:15 I actually grew up in the Canadian. Okay.
00:06:16 --> 00:06:23 So I grew up, I was born and raised in British Columbia and raised in Bountiful in the sect up there.
00:06:24 --> 00:06:28 Okay, that would be why we never met, because my family was not too terribly
00:06:28 --> 00:06:32 close with anybody from the Canadian group, per se.
00:06:32 --> 00:06:37 No, my mom really tried to keep us connected to the Lakers, as we called them,
00:06:38 --> 00:06:40 the Salt Laker group. But.
00:06:42 --> 00:06:47 We, as soon as, like, when her grandfather died, then we didn't go down as much
00:06:47 --> 00:06:49 to Salt Lake as we had before.
00:06:49 --> 00:06:54 And, yeah, it just got kind of complicated as they had more children and that
00:06:54 --> 00:06:58 kind of thing. But we did try to stay pretty connected to the Salt Lake family.
00:06:59 --> 00:07:03 But I had only gone there a handful of times. Okay.
00:07:05 --> 00:07:08 So what was the dynamic like for you? So explain your family.
00:07:08 --> 00:07:12 Like how many moms, how many siblings? What was the dynamic for you there?
00:07:13 --> 00:07:19 So ours was a rarity. I only have one mom, which is crazy. I've never heard
00:07:19 --> 00:07:21 of such a thing in the FIDS.
00:07:22 --> 00:07:29 My dad only ever had one wife. And so we didn't have the aspect of polygamy
00:07:29 --> 00:07:31 in our home, but it's in every other home around us.
00:07:32 --> 00:07:37 I'm not quite sure all the ifs, ands, and buts around why my dad never had another
00:07:37 --> 00:07:42 wife, but I'm sure there was some deeper something going on.
00:07:43 --> 00:07:47 But we always just prayed for him to get a second wife you know because that's
00:07:47 --> 00:07:50 what we wanted and that was you know how we were going to get to heaven,
00:07:50 --> 00:07:56 but I have 10 siblings so I'm the second to oldest so lots of kids younger than
00:07:56 --> 00:08:01 me lots of me babysitting and being you know oldest at home,
00:08:02 --> 00:08:07 and the dynamics were just like it was a small community in Bountiful so we
00:08:07 --> 00:08:10 had a lot of going between houses.
00:08:11 --> 00:08:15 So very small network, a lot of community feel, I would say.
00:08:15 --> 00:08:20 And we just, yeah, we were kids. We ran around in the community and everybody
00:08:20 --> 00:08:26 was at everybody's houses all the time. And it was one big, huge, happy family.
00:08:27 --> 00:08:31 That was the best part, you know, even though it sounds like,
00:08:31 --> 00:08:36 because I too grew up on the compound that was you know five six houses but
00:08:36 --> 00:08:40 you know we are with our cousins and we were always over at each other's house and,
00:08:41 --> 00:08:45 it was it was a good time for sure definitely kids these days don't know that
00:08:45 --> 00:08:51 experience so being the oldest daughter i would assume no there's one more older
00:08:51 --> 00:08:54 there's one okay so you guys were parentified,
00:08:55 --> 00:08:58 very that you were raising your younger siblings I'm sure.
00:08:59 --> 00:09:04 So you already had being a mom down by the time you were 12, probably.
00:09:05 --> 00:09:10 Yep, I surely did. I've been a mom for a lot of years.
00:09:11 --> 00:09:14 Yeah, yeah. It's almost like you came out of the womb ready to go.
00:09:15 --> 00:09:18 So how were you as a teenage girl?
00:09:18 --> 00:09:24 Describe yourself before the marriage and what you were like before that.
00:09:25 --> 00:09:29 So I was, as a teenager, obviously, like you said, parentified.
00:09:29 --> 00:09:34 A lot of responsibility in the household was on me and my older sister.
00:09:34 --> 00:09:41 And then she got married when she was 15. So I would have been 13 at the time she got married.
00:09:42 --> 00:09:44 And so then the whole household fell on me.
00:09:45 --> 00:09:48 That's a lot. That's a lot for a 13-year-old.
00:09:49 --> 00:09:53 She was now married and trafficked down to Colorado City. And so she was gone.
00:09:54 --> 00:09:58 And the household was now mine, which was a lot of work.
00:09:58 --> 00:10:04 And it's really where I started to be that kind of rebel after about a year
00:10:04 --> 00:10:07 and a half, I think I was like 14 and a half.
00:10:07 --> 00:10:09 I really started to.
00:10:11 --> 00:10:16 Rebel, if you would. I started to question and press some boundaries.
00:10:16 --> 00:10:23 And of course, now being a mom, I'm like, wow, how very normal teenage behavior that I was in.
00:10:24 --> 00:10:28 But in that moment, it was just absolutely frowned upon and not allowed.
00:10:28 --> 00:10:36 So I would say just as a typical teenager, I just was trying to belong and find friends.
00:10:36 --> 00:10:43 And I didn't really have that belonging because I wasn't ever able to go play.
00:10:43 --> 00:10:47 I was always able, like I was always, had to go home after school to take care
00:10:47 --> 00:10:53 of the kids or like had to be available to babysit or just, I wasn't,
00:10:53 --> 00:10:55 I didn't have the free time or,
00:10:55 --> 00:11:02 the space to create a lot of connection outside of just being the mom, you know?
00:11:02 --> 00:11:06 So as a teenager, I didn't have a lot of freedom.
00:11:07 --> 00:11:14 But in school, one of the main kind of things that got me kicked out of school was I cut my hair.
00:11:15 --> 00:11:20 You know we can't do that. No, lots of braids, lots and lots of fancy braids.
00:11:20 --> 00:11:25 So I have this picture in ninth grade. I decided that I was going to cut my
00:11:25 --> 00:11:27 hair and I was going to dye it blonde.
00:11:27 --> 00:11:32 And you know you cannot do either one of those things. And so I promptly got
00:11:32 --> 00:11:36 removed from school because I could not be having, you know,
00:11:36 --> 00:11:39 being a bad influence on all the other kids.
00:11:40 --> 00:11:44 And so I was going to be homeschooled for a bit. But really,
00:11:44 --> 00:11:50 that just meant that I was more available to babysit, you know, so I did your mom work.
00:11:52 --> 00:11:56 My mom did work, but mostly just for the church, you know.
00:11:57 --> 00:12:02 It was doing a lot of community projects and a lot of, like,
00:12:02 --> 00:12:04 you know, how the church has all these different businesses.
00:12:04 --> 00:12:09 They had, like, a laundromat and they had, like, different factories and things
00:12:09 --> 00:12:11 like that that they owned in Canada.
00:12:11 --> 00:12:15 So they actually had a mattress factory for a little bit where the women worked
00:12:15 --> 00:12:18 in and they created mattresses. So they sewed and did, like,
00:12:18 --> 00:12:19 all these different things.
00:12:20 --> 00:12:27 And then they did a lot of sewing for other you know production things but mostly
00:12:27 --> 00:12:31 she was just gone like she worked outside of the home and she was gone doing
00:12:31 --> 00:12:34 things for the community and it always just felt like,
00:12:34 --> 00:12:40 that there was something more pressing that needed done you know well she had
00:12:40 --> 00:12:43 she had a backup mom there you were there doing everything so,
00:12:44 --> 00:12:48 she she had a a manufactured assistant.
00:12:49 --> 00:12:52 Yeah. I think that's why I was praying for a sister wife so bad is I was like,
00:12:52 --> 00:12:58 man, if I could get a sister wife in here to do this, then I could actually maybe be a kid.
00:13:00 --> 00:13:06 Yeah. So I have a question. So flash forward a little bit. So you said your
00:13:06 --> 00:13:08 sister got married when she was 15.
00:13:08 --> 00:13:12 You were 13. Now a year and a half later, you're kind of rebelling.
00:13:13 --> 00:13:18 Then you you get matched talk about talk about that,
00:13:19 --> 00:13:24 And what that involves and what it led to. This is a complicated little timeline
00:13:24 --> 00:13:29 because if you know in the FLDS, they arrange the marriages typically right when they happen.
00:13:29 --> 00:13:34 Like most of them show up and you don't really have a warning of like,
00:13:34 --> 00:13:36 hey, this is who you're going to marry.
00:13:36 --> 00:13:40 Most of them, especially at that time, was all the girls showed up in wedding
00:13:40 --> 00:13:42 dresses and they would walk into this big room.
00:13:42 --> 00:13:46 And then they would be matched with like whoever was their match and they would
00:13:46 --> 00:13:49 get married. They had mass weddings in Canada.
00:13:50 --> 00:13:53 And so like it would be whenever Rulon would come up to Canada,
00:13:53 --> 00:13:56 they would do these mass weddings of like, okay, these girls are going to get
00:13:56 --> 00:14:00 married. And they just wouldn't know who they were going to marry until they
00:14:00 --> 00:14:02 walked into the room and then they would get matched.
00:14:02 --> 00:14:06 And there was all sorts of ages of men there. And so, of course,
00:14:06 --> 00:14:10 like when my sister got married, I was babysitting, so I didn't get to go to the wedding.
00:14:11 --> 00:14:16 But they were like show up and there's like seven or eight girls and then they
00:14:16 --> 00:14:17 would just all walk out with different.
00:14:18 --> 00:14:22 And it was just like, that was how they did it in Canada. The prophet had decided
00:14:22 --> 00:14:24 who they were going to marry.
00:14:24 --> 00:14:31 So when I decided I was ready to get married, it was simply because I was 100%
00:14:31 --> 00:14:33 fed up with being at home.
00:14:34 --> 00:14:38 I really just wanted an escape and out. I was ready to get done.
00:14:38 --> 00:14:42 I was ready to just move on. I couldn't please anybody at home.
00:14:42 --> 00:14:47 I couldn't do enough. I didn't feel like I could ever be enough or do enough.
00:14:47 --> 00:14:51 And I was pushing the boundaries with being a rebel.
00:14:51 --> 00:14:56 And so I just figured, well, the next best thing for me to do is get married
00:14:56 --> 00:15:02 because then I can just get out of my dad's house, right? And I can go be a
00:15:02 --> 00:15:05 wife and move, like, I guess that's the next step.
00:15:06 --> 00:15:11 So I went and talked to the bishop about, hey, I'm ready to get married.
00:15:11 --> 00:15:19 I was 15 at the time and it was in 2002 and he's like me and my one of my friends
00:15:19 --> 00:15:25 went and talked to him they call it like turning yourself in to like the priesthood to get married,
00:15:25 --> 00:15:29 and so both of us went and we're like okay we're ready to turn ourselves in
00:15:29 --> 00:15:31 or ready to get married and he was like okay well.
00:15:32 --> 00:15:36 What do you think about these two boys and both of us sat there like really
00:15:36 --> 00:15:40 kind of puzzled because this wasn't the way it usually worked like we didn't
00:15:41 --> 00:15:43 nobody usually got asked what they thought about people,
00:15:44 --> 00:15:48 and I was kind of taken aback and I was like well I don't know that guy so why
00:15:48 --> 00:15:50 would I have any thoughts about him you know I was just like,
00:15:51 --> 00:15:57 perfect stranger I don't know him so I never met him I had no idea what he looked like like,
00:15:57 --> 00:16:03 I was just like I don't know him so he was like my uncle is the was the bishop
00:16:03 --> 00:16:08 up in canada at the time winston blackmore and i don't know if you can say names
00:16:08 --> 00:16:12 or not or if you need to omit names oh we're no no we're saying all the names,
00:16:13 --> 00:16:19 all of them everybody gets out there yeah but he was like okay well.
00:16:20 --> 00:16:23 I'm going to talk to Rulon. I'm going to talk to Uncle Rulon,
00:16:23 --> 00:16:28 you know. When you say Rulon, that's Natasha's grandfather, right? I'm sorry.
00:16:29 --> 00:16:33 I just have to say it. This is crazy that the two of you, that we're having
00:16:33 --> 00:16:37 this conversation, you were both living in different parts of the world.
00:16:37 --> 00:16:41 You were both part of the same FLDS polygamy cult, born into that.
00:16:42 --> 00:16:45 You were married by Natasha's grandfather. There is so much intersectionality
00:16:45 --> 00:16:49 in this moment that I'm losing my mind. Continue. I'm sorry. I just had to say that.
00:16:51 --> 00:16:55 It is wild. And this is where it does get a little bit crazy because we didn't
00:16:55 --> 00:16:57 actually get married by him because he died.
00:16:58 --> 00:16:59 So whoops.
00:17:00 --> 00:17:03 I know. We're new TF. OK.
00:17:05 --> 00:17:07 We got our marriage was approved.
00:17:09 --> 00:17:13 I'm sorry. Inappropriate. This is my inappropriate. No, this is what she does.
00:17:13 --> 00:17:16 This is what she does. And she could. This is a defense mechanism.
00:17:16 --> 00:17:18 And it's beautiful. I love it. sorry. No, no.
00:17:20 --> 00:17:25 You do you, honey. You do you. This is wild. So Winston, my uncle,
00:17:25 --> 00:17:29 had taken the idea that me and my friend were going to marry these two boys. And,
00:17:30 --> 00:17:34 to Rulon and Rulon had approved it. And so then Winston comes back to me and
00:17:34 --> 00:17:38 my friend and is like, okay, so uncle Rulon said, you're going to marry these two boys.
00:17:38 --> 00:17:42 And we were like, this is so weird because you just up there,
00:17:42 --> 00:17:45 you didn't get to find out who you were marrying and tell the wedding.
00:17:46 --> 00:17:49 And so we were just like, okay, all right.
00:17:49 --> 00:17:53 And then it was just like, nothing happened.
00:17:53 --> 00:17:58 All right. And we were like, okay, well kind of like when what's going to happen
00:17:58 --> 00:18:04 like a few weeks go by it's just weird like we're just going about life and then,
00:18:05 --> 00:18:11 i don't know if you know the timeline if you know when ruby and elisa were getting
00:18:11 --> 00:18:14 married we got married down in california remember that,
00:18:15 --> 00:18:19 so i we were supposed to get married then but then the media caught on that
00:18:19 --> 00:18:25 they were bringing girls from canada down to the states and so then my uncle
00:18:25 --> 00:18:28 freaked out and was like, no, we're going to wait till you're 16.
00:18:30 --> 00:18:35 I was 15. And so he like put a pause on mine, but then my friend still went and got married.
00:18:36 --> 00:18:40 But my marriage was a stop because you're not, you're not 16.
00:18:40 --> 00:18:43 So we're stopping. We're not doing that because the media will know,
00:18:43 --> 00:18:46 the public will know. And I'm like, who's going to tell them?
00:18:46 --> 00:18:52 You're like, you know, anyway, I was like pretty upset because of that. But then Rulon died.
00:18:53 --> 00:18:58 Like very shortly after that, ruling passed away and it was just like I was in this limbo of like,
00:18:59 --> 00:19:03 okay now what because we're taught like only one person can perform the marriage
00:19:03 --> 00:19:08 is the prophet you know and here I am in this limbo of I'm supposed to marry this boy,
00:19:09 --> 00:19:15 and now we don't have somebody that can perform this marriage and and just like
00:19:15 --> 00:19:18 the craziness of that was insane.
00:19:19 --> 00:19:23 And the unknown. And then, of course, the big split kind of is happening.
00:19:23 --> 00:19:26 There's like all these people that are now Warren's the prophet,
00:19:26 --> 00:19:28 and they believe Warren's the prophet.
00:19:28 --> 00:19:31 And then there was a whole bunch of people in Canada who were like,
00:19:31 --> 00:19:34 well, Warren's not the prophet, Winston's the prophet, you know.
00:19:34 --> 00:19:40 And so there was a massive split, specifically in Canada, where a lot of the
00:19:40 --> 00:19:48 family was following Warren now, and a lot of the family was following Winston, so much like,
00:19:49 --> 00:19:53 emotional frustration and hate and all this stuff going back and forth towards
00:19:53 --> 00:19:56 each other and families cutting families off and you know all that stuff but
00:19:56 --> 00:20:01 my family decided my parents decided to follow winston,
00:20:01 --> 00:20:06 which was really awful because mom was getting all the pressure to follow warren
00:20:06 --> 00:20:11 from all the steed family and so she almost left dad and moved down to colorado
00:20:11 --> 00:20:14 city and there was just so much emotional turmoil happening,
00:20:15 --> 00:20:20 and here i am a 15 year old in the middle but going i i I just want to get married. Like, hey, guys.
00:20:21 --> 00:20:26 That's my ticket out. Sort of. I just believe, you know, like I don't want to
00:20:26 --> 00:20:28 do anything to do with this. I just want to get married.
00:20:29 --> 00:20:32 And then I just kind of gave up on it. I was like a couple of weeks,
00:20:32 --> 00:20:36 months went by. There was like all of this craziness happening.
00:20:36 --> 00:20:39 And I was like, OK, well, I'm just never going to get married. It's fine.
00:20:39 --> 00:20:43 I'm just going to be a rebel then because I'm really good at that, you know.
00:20:45 --> 00:20:49 Good for you for embracing your strengths. Well, it was very wish-washy.
00:20:49 --> 00:20:52 I did for a little bit, and then I had self-doubts, and then I had to repent,
00:20:52 --> 00:20:55 and then I was no longer a rebel. You know, I went back and forth.
00:20:55 --> 00:20:58 It's very complicated to be you, Anne.
00:20:59 --> 00:21:01 It was very complicated.
00:21:03 --> 00:21:08 But anyway, so. So I know something, and you actually used this word a little
00:21:08 --> 00:21:11 while ago in a different context. You were talking about the businesses that
00:21:11 --> 00:21:13 your family's owned, a laundromat.
00:21:13 --> 00:21:16 You're married in a laundromat, correct?
00:21:17 --> 00:21:20 Yes, I was. Yes, you were. Tell us about that part.
00:21:21 --> 00:21:25 Tell us. Well, that was in the. So our friend Ange was featured in People Magazine.
00:21:25 --> 00:21:29 Her story last year, I believe it was in March, end of March of last year.
00:21:30 --> 00:21:34 You were featured in People Magazine, you and your husband, Cade.
00:21:35 --> 00:21:40 And I, of course, devoured that article to learn just as much as I could learn.
00:21:40 --> 00:21:44 And that is one of the very first things that is in that article that says that
00:21:44 --> 00:21:45 you were married on the laundromat.
00:21:46 --> 00:21:48 So you've waited, waited, waited, waited, and then all of a sudden...
00:21:49 --> 00:21:53 Did you have to go to get laundry that day? And it just happened? Like what?
00:21:53 --> 00:21:56 And I'm not trying to make light of it. Like how, because everything happened
00:21:56 --> 00:21:59 so instantaneously. Yeah. How did that happen?
00:21:59 --> 00:22:06 Well, without doing like a whole novel of backstory, there at the time I was
00:22:06 --> 00:22:10 just, when I decided to get married, I was like absolutely fed up.
00:22:10 --> 00:22:16 And I was like, I'm either going to run away and leave or I'm going to get married.
00:22:17 --> 00:22:22 And I didn't have like I didn't really want to get married at the at that point
00:22:22 --> 00:22:28 my parents were now again pressuring me to get married and I was just feeling
00:22:28 --> 00:22:30 like I don't want to get married,
00:22:31 --> 00:22:36 at now I had turned 16 so now I'm 16 I'm trying to think of the best spot to
00:22:36 --> 00:22:40 bring into this story because without doing like a whole year's worth of.
00:22:41 --> 00:22:44 Backstory then it's kind of hard to bring you into the story but,
00:22:45 --> 00:22:49 now if we're jumping right to my wedding then tell us tell us the way that you
00:22:49 --> 00:22:53 feel we can do this a two-parter if we need to yeah absolutely if you feel that
00:22:53 --> 00:22:57 part is important then include it and we can just we'll make this a two-parter,
00:22:58 --> 00:23:00 or we'll just keep going and it'll be an extra long one yeah.
00:23:02 --> 00:23:07 Well i don't need to explain a lot of it i just feel like maybe maybe a little
00:23:07 --> 00:23:14 bit of backstory and i'll lead up to the laundromat yeah absolutely there's just like as i so,
00:23:15 --> 00:23:19 so i get to meet cade right before we get married which this is like,
00:23:20 --> 00:23:23 This is unheard of in the U.S. At least in Canada, it was unheard of.
00:23:23 --> 00:23:25 You get to meet your husband before you get married.
00:23:25 --> 00:23:30 So one day he shows as I'm walking down the road with one of my friends.
00:23:31 --> 00:23:34 Here comes his truck. He pulls up beside me and he unrolls a window and he's
00:23:34 --> 00:23:38 like, hey, I got told I'm supposed to take you to ice cream.
00:23:39 --> 00:23:42 And I was like, OK, you know.
00:23:43 --> 00:23:48 Perfect. Stranger danger. No, none of that. I was just like,
00:23:48 --> 00:23:52 all right. Did you know who he was? Did you know that that was the boy you were supposed to marry?
00:23:52 --> 00:23:56 Yeah, I knew what truck he drove, and I knew kind of what he looked like.
00:23:56 --> 00:23:57 And so I was like, all right.
00:23:58 --> 00:24:01 So that was very awkward. So we went to get ice cream.
00:24:02 --> 00:24:06 And it's funny because I talk about CPTSD and not knowing what you like and
00:24:06 --> 00:24:08 what you want on my reel, really.
00:24:08 --> 00:24:13 And I just, for so many years, I would just get whatever Cade got because I
00:24:13 --> 00:24:17 didn't know really what I wanted or want to be like a stick in the mud.
00:24:17 --> 00:24:20 Or like, you know, how dare I have a voice and say what I wanted.
00:24:20 --> 00:24:24 And so when we went to get ice cream, then he was like, I'll have a strawberry
00:24:24 --> 00:24:26 sundae. What do you want? And I was like, I'll have that too.
00:24:26 --> 00:24:29 You know, and I never had a strawberry sundae in my whole life.
00:24:29 --> 00:24:33 I was just like, that's not something I would get. I would usually get chocolate or something.
00:24:35 --> 00:24:38 It's so funny because I joke and I was like, wow, that was the first time I'd
00:24:38 --> 00:24:39 ever eaten a strawberry sundae.
00:24:39 --> 00:24:46 But anyway, so I get to meet him and then this is briefly before Rulon died.
00:24:46 --> 00:24:49 Okay and then Rulon died and I was like well I'm not gonna get married then
00:24:49 --> 00:24:52 and I'm gonna not talk to you anymore and I don't know you and,
00:24:53 --> 00:24:57 it was super awkward and weird and it was like I didn't know him but he was
00:24:57 --> 00:25:00 very much like well I would like to marry you and I was like well I don't know
00:25:00 --> 00:25:03 you so we're not gonna get married and,
00:25:04 --> 00:25:10 anyway lots of like frustration and me trying to be a teenager throughout the next little bit but,
00:25:11 --> 00:25:15 I had decided I wasn't going to marry him. I was just like, I'm not going to
00:25:15 --> 00:25:18 marry you. I'm going to just be a teenager.
00:25:18 --> 00:25:22 My parents had decided to stay with Winston and not go with Warren.
00:25:22 --> 00:25:24 And there was a lot of emotional turmoil there.
00:25:25 --> 00:25:29 And I was back at home, like I was home with my parents.
00:25:29 --> 00:25:34 And they were very much like frustrated with me because I was being a rebel.
00:25:34 --> 00:25:39 And that's not allowed. And they just were like, you can't be here.
00:25:39 --> 00:25:41 But they didn't know what to do with me.
00:25:42 --> 00:25:47 Before, I feel like this part is kind of important to the story,
00:25:47 --> 00:25:51 but it was before I got married, then I had walked in on a conversation of my
00:25:51 --> 00:25:55 parent, or before I had got arranged to get married.
00:25:55 --> 00:26:00 I'd walked in on a conversation of my parents talking about how Warren had told
00:26:00 --> 00:26:04 them that they needed to get rid of me and dispose of me.
00:26:04 --> 00:26:08 Dispose of you? Yeah, like they really need to figure out what you're going
00:26:08 --> 00:26:12 to do with her because she's basically a bad apple and she's going to affect
00:26:12 --> 00:26:16 a lot of girls and you need to figure out how to get rid of her or what you're
00:26:16 --> 00:26:18 going to do with her if she's not going to repent.
00:26:18 --> 00:26:24 And I just remember like the jarring feeling of like my parents talking about
00:26:24 --> 00:26:27 that and my mom and dad kind of going back and forth.
00:26:27 --> 00:26:32 And kind of the conversation that came up was my mom saying,
00:26:32 --> 00:26:35 well, if we don't do something, then we're not going to be worthy.
00:26:35 --> 00:26:38 Like we're not going to get another wife, you know, and we're not going to be
00:26:38 --> 00:26:40 able to get go to heaven and that kind of thing.
00:26:41 --> 00:26:45 Hey, it's Lisa Sugarman, co-host of the Survivors and founder of The Help Hub.
00:26:45 --> 00:26:49 If you're listening right now and you're not okay, if you're feeling overwhelmed,
00:26:50 --> 00:26:54 stuck, or like you're carrying more than you can handle, please know you don't
00:26:54 --> 00:26:55 have to go through it alone.
00:26:56 --> 00:27:02 You can call or text 988 or chat online at 988lifeline.org to connect with trained
00:27:02 --> 00:27:06 counselors like me who are there to listen and support you in the moment.
00:27:06 --> 00:27:11 Reaching out is a brave first step and you owe it to yourself because your life
00:27:11 --> 00:27:17 matters, your story matters and help is always just three numbers away.
00:27:19 --> 00:27:23 And because that was what they had want, like that's what Warren had wanted.
00:27:23 --> 00:27:27 God, the amount of brainwashing that you two have experienced.
00:27:27 --> 00:27:31 And I'm just so sorry. It's like being waterboarded from birth.
00:27:31 --> 00:27:36 Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm just so, I'm just listening to this, like I'm listening
00:27:36 --> 00:27:40 to this partially coaching myself not to let my mouth hang open because I'm
00:27:40 --> 00:27:42 listening to it all and being just aghast.
00:27:42 --> 00:27:45 And then I'm also just like, I just want to hug you both. And I'm just so sorry
00:27:45 --> 00:27:49 that you both have had to deal with what you've had to deal with.
00:27:49 --> 00:27:54 That's all didn't mean to interrupt the flow I just I just feel so badly okay
00:27:54 --> 00:27:56 this is just talking I'm there's no flow.
00:27:59 --> 00:28:04 I appreciate that I would I'll gladly take a hug great I'm coming to you as soon as I can get there,
00:28:07 --> 00:28:12 but yes very jarring conversation and basically the gist of it was is that my
00:28:12 --> 00:28:16 mom was feeling pressure to do something about her rebellious daughter
00:28:16 --> 00:28:22 and my dad was saying I don't know what to do kind of thing like what do you do with her and,
00:28:23 --> 00:28:27 I wasn't supposed to hear that conversation but I did and it really kind of
00:28:27 --> 00:28:30 just I think that moment for me was like,
00:28:30 --> 00:28:37 and the start of you're not safe here like you know you I already knew I wasn't
00:28:37 --> 00:28:41 like my in my soul you know you're just it's a different type of feeling but,
00:28:42 --> 00:28:44 it was a little seed that planted that was like,
00:28:45 --> 00:28:47 okay, you should probably look at other options.
00:28:47 --> 00:28:52 And there wasn't any options to look at. You know, I didn't have any resources
00:28:52 --> 00:28:55 or any access to anyone outside of the cult.
00:28:56 --> 00:29:01 I had no idea there was help. I had no idea there was places that I could go.
00:29:01 --> 00:29:04 I had no idea about foster care. I had no idea about any of that.
00:29:04 --> 00:29:07 So in my head, it was just kind of like, well.
00:29:08 --> 00:29:12 You were stuck. I'm stuck. Like there's. I have a quick question.
00:29:12 --> 00:29:14 Yeah. Did your parents know that you heard them?
00:29:15 --> 00:29:18 I don't think so. I don't even know if they know that to this day.
00:29:19 --> 00:29:21 Do you still talk to your parents?
00:29:23 --> 00:29:27 You don't have to answer if you don't want to. I am no contact with my mom.
00:29:28 --> 00:29:36 I do talk to my dad occasionally. He's very much emotionally unavailable. I'll just say that.
00:29:37 --> 00:29:41 My mom is in the Centennial Park cult now.
00:29:43 --> 00:29:50 What is that? That's just another branch of FLDS? That's what they call Second Ward, right? Yeah.
00:29:51 --> 00:29:58 Yeah. So there was a split in the 70s, late 70s, where, and so those that didn't
00:29:58 --> 00:30:03 believe that my grandfather was the next prophet, they split and created what
00:30:03 --> 00:30:04 they call the second ward.
00:30:05 --> 00:30:08 I know about this. And that's where the vast majority of my relatives,
00:30:08 --> 00:30:10 the Waymans and the Barlows are.
00:30:11 --> 00:30:13 Okay. Yeah. I do know about this. Okay.
00:30:15 --> 00:30:20 Yeah. So she's part of the centennial group. Who's she married to? Thomas Newton.
00:30:21 --> 00:30:25 Yeah. I don't know him. I only know Joe. You're probably related to him.
00:30:26 --> 00:30:29 Is it one of Joe Knudsen's brothers? Yeah. Or sons?
00:30:30 --> 00:30:34 I think it's his brother. He's old. And none of this matters.
00:30:34 --> 00:30:36 It's just so interesting.
00:30:38 --> 00:30:40 It's no longer a family tree. It's a wreath. It's a wreath.
00:30:42 --> 00:30:48 Yeah. Literally, quite literally. It's a wreath. It gets so complicated. I know.
00:30:49 --> 00:30:53 So you hear this conversation, you overhear this conversation with your parents,
00:30:53 --> 00:30:59 and now you're thinking you've got to course correct and maybe consider marrying
00:30:59 --> 00:31:01 Kate again, right? Is that what happened?
00:31:01 --> 00:31:06 Yeah, and it gets even worse. So I fast forward and I'm like,
00:31:06 --> 00:31:12 oh my gosh, the year goes on and my dad and mom are starting to like pressure me even more.
00:31:12 --> 00:31:17 Like we either need to get married or you need to repent and be good and,
00:31:17 --> 00:31:20 you know, all these things and you need to do that.
00:31:20 --> 00:31:23 And I just kept feeling like, good hell.
00:31:23 --> 00:31:28 Like I kept trying to tell my mom, I'm like, I'm not a bad person.
00:31:28 --> 00:31:32 Like I'm not a bad person. I'm a good person. I just don't want to do that.
00:31:32 --> 00:31:38 Well, no, you know. And it kind of, the final straw came down to one time my
00:31:38 --> 00:31:42 dad took me, and you're going to want to tape your jaw shut for this one.
00:31:43 --> 00:31:45 My dad took me to...
00:31:46 --> 00:31:52 My dad took me to a giant train bridge and he said that I needed to get married
00:31:52 --> 00:31:54 or he was going to jump off and kill himself.
00:31:54 --> 00:32:01 No, he didn't. No, he didn't. So I'm sitting there in the truck as a 16-year-old,
00:32:01 --> 00:32:04 going, okay, what do I do now?
00:32:05 --> 00:32:08 I don't even know what to do with that. What are my options?
00:32:11 --> 00:32:16 How do I decide what to do? I can't not get married. I can't hold that over
00:32:16 --> 00:32:22 my head. You know, I can't let that be the reason why none of my siblings have
00:32:22 --> 00:32:25 a dad, you know, like I can't be that can't be on me.
00:32:25 --> 00:32:30 And so I have to pause because of my chest hurts.
00:32:30 --> 00:32:35 That's OK. Take your time. Take your time. That is a traumatic experience, hon.
00:32:36 --> 00:32:40 Yeah, it's very heavy. And I've only talked about it a handful of times and
00:32:40 --> 00:32:41 I've just decided, you know what,
00:32:42 --> 00:32:50 I'm so sick of all of us just pushing down what actually happened and not telling
00:32:50 --> 00:32:52 the truth about it to protect people.
00:32:54 --> 00:33:01 I know that my story is going to make people go, what? That didn't happen,
00:33:01 --> 00:33:05 you know, and gaslight me. And I'm just like, okay, it's okay to be honest.
00:33:06 --> 00:33:10 So I'm sitting in the truck and my dad's up walking on the train bridge because,
00:33:10 --> 00:33:13 of course, he got out after he told me that and went and walked on the train
00:33:13 --> 00:33:16 bridge, which then I'm just like, did he do it?
00:33:16 --> 00:33:20 Like, am I like I'm sitting there forever? What feels like for 52 years?
00:33:21 --> 00:33:26 And a couple of my uncles pulled up and they like this isn't a walking bridge.
00:33:26 --> 00:33:30 It's not somewhere that's like you should be walking. And they pulled up and
00:33:30 --> 00:33:32 they were like, what's your dad doing up there on the bridge?
00:33:33 --> 00:33:38 And i was just like oh he's just going for a walk you know i'm just like blowing
00:33:38 --> 00:33:44 it off like what a horrible position for you to be in for a thousand different reasons right,
00:33:44 --> 00:33:48 i'm just like trying to i'm trying to like.
00:33:49 --> 00:33:56 Make it not be a big deal to that like for them like oh my dad's fine it's fine
00:33:56 --> 00:34:00 you know and then in my head i'm like should i get out and run away like i'm
00:34:00 --> 00:34:02 like i I don't even know what to do with this, you know?
00:34:02 --> 00:34:07 And then the other side of the coin, I'm like, oh my God, I guess I'm getting
00:34:07 --> 00:34:09 married, you know, like, oh my gosh.
00:34:09 --> 00:34:15 So I just felt like that part is a little bit more important to be part of the
00:34:15 --> 00:34:20 story because it puts the severity of why I decided to abruptly get married. Most definitely.
00:34:20 --> 00:34:23 I was just like, I'm not going to get married. I'm not going to get married.
00:34:23 --> 00:34:25 I'm not going to get married. And all of a sudden I had to get married.
00:34:25 --> 00:34:30 And so I said, okay, well, great. I guess I'll get married.
00:34:30 --> 00:34:37 You know and so the next week we were married so winston actually performed our,
00:34:38 --> 00:34:43 our religious ceremony, but our- The prophet in Canada.
00:34:43 --> 00:34:52 Yeah. Okay. So we, but our legal ceremony was performed at a laundromat. So let's go there.
00:34:54 --> 00:35:00 So we have, as I was the first wife, then the first wife gets legally married.
00:35:00 --> 00:35:04 Typically in, at least in Canada, I'm pretty sure it was the same way in the
00:35:04 --> 00:35:08 States is that the first wife would get legally married And then all subsequent
00:35:08 --> 00:35:13 wives would not be legally married to the husband. They would just be single mothers.
00:35:13 --> 00:35:17 And so I was the first wife.
00:35:17 --> 00:35:20 So we had to have a legal wedding and we got married in Canada.
00:35:20 --> 00:35:28 And so we went to get our wedding certificate and my parents had to sign me
00:35:28 --> 00:35:31 over to my husband because I was under 18,
00:35:32 --> 00:35:36 which I still think that we should probably address that at some point.
00:35:36 --> 00:35:43 Like, why are we allowing people to sign custody over to a man when they're 16?
00:35:44 --> 00:35:50 But anyway, so we got our marriage license and we went to show up to do a legal
00:35:50 --> 00:35:54 ceremony. They don't want anybody who is not in the religion on their property.
00:35:54 --> 00:35:59 And so the process of the peace could not come to the church and perform our
00:35:59 --> 00:36:02 legal ceremony. We had to have it at a public place.
00:36:02 --> 00:36:06 And since the church owned a laundromat, then it was just super convenient that
00:36:06 --> 00:36:09 we could just go to this laundromat and do our legal ceremony, right?
00:36:11 --> 00:36:14 Makes perfect sense, Ange. Perfect sense.
00:36:16 --> 00:36:20 I'm going to fall off my chair in a minute. I just want you to know.
00:36:24 --> 00:36:29 No falling off your chair. I'm going to buckle up.
00:36:32 --> 00:36:37 I just laughed because what else is there to do? I was thinking it's like the
00:36:37 --> 00:36:40 theater of the absurd. But this is real.
00:36:40 --> 00:36:48 Anybody who's listening to this story now cannot possibly understand what the
00:36:48 --> 00:36:51 two of you have been through in your lives.
00:36:52 --> 00:36:56 And, I mean, there are two choices. You either laugh and you move forward or
00:36:56 --> 00:37:00 it takes you down badly, hard.
00:37:01 --> 00:37:04 And I'm sure Natasha can speak to that when you let yourself go down,
00:37:04 --> 00:37:09 it's very easy to just start falling far, far, far. And you have like,
00:37:10 --> 00:37:12 no, no, no, we're not going to do that.
00:37:13 --> 00:37:18 But yes, you do have to laugh at it. And that has kind of been my thing is like,
00:37:18 --> 00:37:23 well, I have to laugh at this trauma because there's nothing else to do besides
00:37:23 --> 00:37:28 laugh at it and try to heal through it because it's still going to be there and it still happens.
00:37:28 --> 00:37:33 And not talking about it or being mad about it is not going to make it not be there.
00:37:33 --> 00:37:40 So it's like choosing the path of least resistance, but also addressing it at the same time.
00:37:40 --> 00:37:43 Like, are we going to laugh about it or are we going to cry about it?
00:37:43 --> 00:37:47 And so then you end up doing what I call crafting. which is crying and laughing at the same time.
00:37:49 --> 00:37:53 Oh, true. I think other people call that delirium.
00:37:55 --> 00:38:02 Well, that's fair. We'll just be delirious. Yeah. So now you're married in the
00:38:02 --> 00:38:05 laundromat, and you are 16.
00:38:05 --> 00:38:07 And was Cade 19 or 17?
00:38:08 --> 00:38:11 19. 19. Okay. She was a few years older than me.
00:38:11 --> 00:38:15 So, yeah, we show up to the laundromat in different vehicles to get married.
00:38:15 --> 00:38:19 And the justice of the peace like knows the religion,
00:38:20 --> 00:38:24 and so she has like all the things crossed out in the thing in the book like
00:38:24 --> 00:38:28 we don't do a ring exchange we don't kiss at the wedding we don't do anything
00:38:28 --> 00:38:29 like she has all these crossed out
00:38:30 --> 00:38:35 and so we just read off the words that she wanted us to read off and then we sign our papers
00:38:35 --> 00:38:40 we hold hands and take a few pictures and then we both get in different vehicles and leave,
00:38:41 --> 00:38:47 to then meet back up to have the religious ceremony later that evening. So yeah.
00:38:50 --> 00:38:55 And at that point, were you allowed to kiss your now husband after that ceremony?
00:38:56 --> 00:38:58 Yeah, after that ceremony, it was expected.
00:38:59 --> 00:39:04 Yeah. Well, am I jumping the gun here, or aren't you all just kind of ushered
00:39:04 --> 00:39:07 off to go ahead and consummate that? Yeah.
00:39:08 --> 00:39:13 I for sure was like WTF because I had no idea what sex was.
00:39:13 --> 00:39:17 And so we get in the truck to go home that night, and I just remember thinking,
00:39:18 --> 00:39:20 And wait a minute, like, this is really weird. Where are all my friends?
00:39:20 --> 00:39:26 Like, why am I like just feeling like, what do we do now? What just happened? Yeah.
00:39:27 --> 00:39:32 That's really weird. And everyone, of course, was so excited and so proud.
00:39:32 --> 00:39:36 You know, mom and dad were just thumbs up and everything was great.
00:39:36 --> 00:39:39 And I just remember thinking like, well, why don't I feel super excited?
00:39:39 --> 00:39:45 Because you were 16 and you were more or less forced to marry a boy you didn't
00:39:45 --> 00:39:48 know. That's why. Yeah. Yeah.
00:39:48 --> 00:39:59 So you, okay. So I'm going to flip forward again to that People Magazine article that came out.
00:40:01 --> 00:40:05 They did this big feature about you and it suddenly comes out and now it's everywhere.
00:40:07 --> 00:40:12 I mean, how did that change things for you?
00:40:12 --> 00:40:15 Was that when you really first started talking about this?
00:40:15 --> 00:40:18 And I know there's more backstory, we want to go back and find out what were
00:40:18 --> 00:40:22 the early years like, and I know that it was a part of your relationship where.
00:40:24 --> 00:40:30 You didn't want to stay married, and then you both ultimately left the church.
00:40:31 --> 00:40:37 But I'm just curious about, like, was that where your story really just kind of exploded?
00:40:38 --> 00:40:44 In People magazine? Mm-hmm. Yeah. So I did a reel, and it went viral,
00:40:44 --> 00:40:47 of course. I think it has, like, 40 million views or something. Oh, my gosh.
00:40:48 --> 00:40:52 But it went viral, and I got a lot of media attention.
00:40:53 --> 00:40:56 And that was where I was, like, I had talked about my story,
00:40:56 --> 00:40:59 and I'd made, like, little reels and little things like that.
00:40:59 --> 00:41:07 But I'd never really just hit it head on and so with that reel it was just that
00:41:07 --> 00:41:11 the trend of you're so funny thanks blah blah blah blah blah you.
00:41:12 --> 00:41:15 Know and I was like you're so funny thanks this is the man that I was arranged
00:41:15 --> 00:41:20 to marry and then it was like at the age of 16 and then like you're so funny
00:41:20 --> 00:41:25 and I was like thanks this is the same man that I actually love him you know 20 something years ago.
00:41:26 --> 00:41:30 And so it was just that kind of a reel and it caught a lot of people's attention, of course.
00:41:30 --> 00:41:35 And so I just thought, well, what the heck, I'm going to dive kind of into this
00:41:35 --> 00:41:39 and, you know, just start talking about it a little bit more.
00:41:39 --> 00:41:42 It gave me more confidence to be like, okay.
00:41:43 --> 00:41:49 And then having a few interviews, it is reassuring when people are inspired
00:41:49 --> 00:41:53 and they give you positive feedback and they,
00:41:54 --> 00:41:58 so I think that was kind of what gave me a little bit more confidence to talk about it.
00:42:00 --> 00:42:06 So before that though so now we're I'm I know we're jumping around I'm making
00:42:06 --> 00:42:07 you do cartwheels here back and forth but.
00:42:09 --> 00:42:15 You you get married and you're married and give us kind of a snapshot of what
00:42:15 --> 00:42:17 it was like in the beginning and then when did everything fall apart,
00:42:18 --> 00:42:22 So I actually only was married for about eight weeks in the very beginning because
00:42:23 --> 00:42:26 I was like, yeah, no, this isn't for me.
00:42:27 --> 00:42:31 I'm not a fan of this. I don't really want to wait on you hand and foot.
00:42:31 --> 00:42:34 And this is no different than my dad's house, you know?
00:42:35 --> 00:42:42 And I prefaced that with that Cade was just like, he was just trying to get
00:42:42 --> 00:42:47 his wife. He was going to make sure his wife was going to be a good little wife.
00:42:48 --> 00:42:51 In the kindest ways. Like he was just like, we're going to go to church.
00:42:51 --> 00:42:55 We're going to wear the right clothes. And I was like, no, we're not,
00:42:55 --> 00:43:00 you know? And I just like kind of pushed back on him with that, those kinds of things.
00:43:00 --> 00:43:04 So early on, we went to, in Canada, they have a log, logging cruise and they
00:43:04 --> 00:43:08 have these big houses where all the men go away for the week and work.
00:43:08 --> 00:43:11 And a few of the women go and do all the cooking and all the cleaning and all this stuff.
00:43:12 --> 00:43:16 And then they come back to the community for the weekend for like priesthood
00:43:16 --> 00:43:18 meeting and church and all that stuff.
00:43:19 --> 00:43:22 So I would go with Cade to these logging crew houses.
00:43:22 --> 00:43:26 And my grandma was there from my dad's side. And she was like.
00:43:27 --> 00:43:32 Determined to that I was gonna be this amazing young priesthood wife.
00:43:32 --> 00:43:36 And so we started like making sure I got up every morning at 430 in the morning
00:43:36 --> 00:43:40 to help with all of the meals and doing laundry and all of that.
00:43:40 --> 00:43:45 And I just was like, oh, this is, this is not for me. I am not a big fan of this.
00:43:46 --> 00:43:51 And kind of my, the last time I went to the crew house, then my grandma was
00:43:51 --> 00:43:55 like, when he gets home from work, you really need to go over and take off his
00:43:55 --> 00:43:59 work boots and, you know, help him like take off his shoes.
00:43:59 --> 00:44:05 And I just remember sitting there and looking at her like, hell no. Oh my God.
00:44:06 --> 00:44:11 No way am I going over to sweaty, dirty feet and taking off shoes.
00:44:12 --> 00:44:16 And other wives would. They'd untie their work boots. And I remember as a kid,
00:44:16 --> 00:44:19 like, our dad would always have us untie his work boots and all that stuff.
00:44:19 --> 00:44:22 And I just remember thinking, he can untie his own effing boots.
00:44:22 --> 00:44:25 He's a grown-ass man. Grown-ass man.
00:44:27 --> 00:44:32 But, so that was the last time I went to the crew house. And then shortly after
00:44:32 --> 00:44:36 that, I just, one of the weeks Cade went to work.
00:44:37 --> 00:44:41 So he went away to work and I just moved all my stuff back to my dad's house.
00:44:41 --> 00:44:46 Oh. I know. Big, huge no-no. You do not do that.
00:44:47 --> 00:44:53 You are just, you cannot do that. So then take like, now I've gotten married,
00:44:53 --> 00:44:57 and we had not had sex or anything because I didn't even know what it was.
00:44:57 --> 00:44:58 And I was like, don't touch me.
00:44:58 --> 00:45:03 And so, of course, I'm so appreciative that he didn't rape me on my wedding
00:45:03 --> 00:45:06 night or anything like so many other young girls did.
00:45:06 --> 00:45:09 Cade had always respected me and always was kind.
00:45:09 --> 00:45:13 But I was like, I don't want to be married. This is dumb. I'm going to move
00:45:13 --> 00:45:14 back to my parents' house.
00:45:14 --> 00:45:20 And so I didn't ask my parents for permission. I just moved back into my old room. Whoops.
00:45:21 --> 00:45:26 Hadn't been filled with another child? Created? Oh, yeah, with my sister.
00:45:26 --> 00:45:28 I just moved back in. And we're moving back in together.
00:45:30 --> 00:45:36 Slide on over. I'm getting back in bed. But created quite a hufflepuffel.
00:45:36 --> 00:45:39 And then it was like, well, what are we going to do with her now?
00:45:40 --> 00:45:46 Now she's not married. Now she's divorced. And now I'm just even bigger shame,
00:45:46 --> 00:45:49 like shame, shame, shame, dishonor, dishonor, dishonor.
00:45:49 --> 00:45:51 Did you get legally divorced?
00:45:52 --> 00:45:55 No, you never did. Right. No. Okay. I knew that. Okay.
00:45:56 --> 00:46:02 Yeah. So I was just like, I don't want to be married. I'm going to be home.
00:46:02 --> 00:46:05 And that didn't work out very well in my favor.
00:46:06 --> 00:46:10 My parents were very much like, we don't know what to do with you.
00:46:10 --> 00:46:13 Like, you're out of control, you know?
00:46:13 --> 00:46:17 Really, my out of control-ness was I just wanted to be a teenager, you know?
00:46:18 --> 00:46:22 You wanted a little free agency. Just how dare I, you know?
00:46:23 --> 00:46:30 Exactly. Anyway, one of my aunts that I had never met found out that I was struggling
00:46:30 --> 00:46:34 and she had left the cult like 20 years prior,
00:46:34 --> 00:46:39 and she reached out to my parents and she said that I could go live with her.
00:46:41 --> 00:46:45 And so my dad took me and dropped me off at her house.
00:46:46 --> 00:46:52 And you had never met her? No. If I had met her, it would have been when I was
00:46:52 --> 00:46:55 like a toddler, but I don't have any recollection of her.
00:46:56 --> 00:47:02 And she was not in any of like my mom's photos because she was an apostate.
00:47:02 --> 00:47:04 And so they didn't have her in like any of the photos.
00:47:07 --> 00:47:10 Was she excommunicated or did she just left? She just left. Okay.
00:47:12 --> 00:47:15 She was shunned. Shunned? So shunned. She was shunned.
00:47:19 --> 00:47:23 So you go and you live with your aunt, and that was a positive experience, wasn't it?
00:47:24 --> 00:47:28 Yeah, it was really positive. She was very helpful in, like,
00:47:29 --> 00:47:34 showing me how to live a lot of things, like a lot of life, like how to get
00:47:34 --> 00:47:38 a bank account, how to, like, get a job, those type of things.
00:47:38 --> 00:47:42 Just really introducing me to the world a little bit.
00:47:43 --> 00:47:46 It kind of got sticky when she was like, hey, do you want to finish school?
00:47:47 --> 00:47:51 And we realized that Cade was my legal guardian and that I couldn't sign up
00:47:51 --> 00:47:59 for school because Cade was legally my guardian because my parents signed me over to him. Oh my gosh.
00:48:02 --> 00:48:05 Just when I think it cannot get more complicated, it's more complicated.
00:48:06 --> 00:48:09 Oh, I know. I know. And I just look at myself and I'm like, oh,
00:48:09 --> 00:48:13 my gosh, poor little 16-year-old Ange trying to navigate all of that.
00:48:13 --> 00:48:16 I'm like, she must have been pretty freaking brave.
00:48:17 --> 00:48:19 Yeah, you are. You are.
00:48:20 --> 00:48:25 But so long story short, my aunt and I decide that I do need to get a legal
00:48:25 --> 00:48:30 divorce and so that I can do school and I can do those type of things.
00:48:30 --> 00:48:38 And so we decide, oh, my gosh, we need to find Cade so I can get a divorce because
00:48:38 --> 00:48:43 I had totally ignored every call, ignored every single don't talk to me.
00:48:43 --> 00:48:48 I don't know you never even gave him a chance to even like talk to me.
00:48:48 --> 00:48:52 I was just like, I don't know you. I don't want to be married to you.
00:48:52 --> 00:48:54 I don't have anything in common with you.
00:48:54 --> 00:48:58 I just, I'm good, you know?
00:48:58 --> 00:49:07 And so he had, in the midst of that time, when I left him, he decided,
00:49:07 --> 00:49:10 F this religion, F all of this, and he left.
00:49:11 --> 00:49:16 Oh, plot twist. Yeah. Woo, okay. I didn't know that.
00:49:16 --> 00:49:21 And so I had no idea that he had left the religion and he was living with that
00:49:21 --> 00:49:23 group of lost boys in Salt Lake.
00:49:23 --> 00:49:27 I know all about the lost boys. They were the ones who were actually excommunicated
00:49:27 --> 00:49:30 and driven to the outskirts of town and just left there.
00:49:31 --> 00:49:33 Right. Because they were a threat to the leadership. Right.
00:49:34 --> 00:49:38 Yeah. My brother claims to be one of them, but I'm like, oh, shit. Yeah.
00:49:43 --> 00:49:47 Well, Cade wasn't a last boy. He just was hanging out with them,
00:49:47 --> 00:49:51 living in that group with them and working close with a lot of the construction
00:49:51 --> 00:49:56 companies there in Salt Lake after he left. But I had no idea that that's where he was.
00:49:57 --> 00:50:02 And so a few months go by and my aunt is like, well, we should probably help
00:50:02 --> 00:50:04 you get a divorce, blah, blah, blah.
00:50:04 --> 00:50:09 And so I reach out to his sister to try and, like, who's back in the cult,
00:50:09 --> 00:50:15 to be like, hey, can I get your brother's number? Because I just conveniently lost everything.
00:50:22 --> 00:50:26 And she was like, yeah, he actually left and he doesn't really want to talk
00:50:26 --> 00:50:28 to you. And I was like, oh, rude.
00:50:33 --> 00:50:37 What did i ever do to him you know except leave him marry him and then leave
00:50:37 --> 00:50:42 him and block him he said marry leave block whatever don't talk to him move
00:50:42 --> 00:50:45 out whatever all of that within you know a couple days,
00:50:46 --> 00:50:49 whatevs not that big a deal yeah so,
00:50:51 --> 00:50:57 so how did you get in touch with him so she gave me his phone number okay and
00:50:57 --> 00:51:02 I did end up texting and calling him and being like hey I just you know want
00:51:02 --> 00:51:05 to meet up and let's talk about getting a divorce,
00:51:05 --> 00:51:11 and I got like Kate is like level 2000 introvert and so I got like four words
00:51:11 --> 00:51:16 from him that were like okay we can meet up or something and I was just like awesome you know,
00:51:18 --> 00:51:23 And so my aunt and I went to Salt Lake and met up with him and he shows up and
00:51:23 --> 00:51:29 he's in this great big truck and he's like dressed like a Gentile now in a t-shirt,
00:51:30 --> 00:51:34 all this stuff, his hair's bleached, it's all cut. And I'm just like, who the f is this?
00:51:35 --> 00:51:37 Like, who's this guy? You know?
00:51:37 --> 00:51:41 And he's like, okay, we can go for a drive and chat. And I'm like, all right.
00:51:41 --> 00:51:47 And so we get in the truck and we don't ever talk about getting divorced.
00:51:47 --> 00:51:50 We totally just, like, talk about everything we had in common,
00:51:50 --> 00:51:53 leaving the religion, all of the music we discovered.
00:51:53 --> 00:51:56 He introduces me to Metallica. And I'm just like, oh, my God,
00:51:56 --> 00:51:58 this is so great. Well, what do you know?
00:51:59 --> 00:52:04 Who's the pot boy? Right, right, right. He was like, yeah, you just showed up
00:52:04 --> 00:52:06 in a big truck, and that's why you liked me. And I was like,
00:52:08 --> 00:52:11 I don't think it was that, but maybe a little bit. I don't know.
00:52:12 --> 00:52:15 I was also a 16-year-old not knowing where I belonged in the world.
00:52:16 --> 00:52:21 Right. Yeah, we're very easy for us to trauma bond over a lot of stuff,
00:52:21 --> 00:52:26 especially when our trauma was existing in the same exact timeline.
00:52:26 --> 00:52:31 Right, right, exactly. And intersected. You were married and still were at that
00:52:31 --> 00:52:34 moment when you were off in the truck. Yeah, right.
00:52:35 --> 00:52:43 So, OK, so you obviously I mean, we know we know how the story ends more or
00:52:43 --> 00:52:46 less because it's been a long time.
00:52:47 --> 00:52:50 You clearly have stayed together. Yes.
00:52:51 --> 00:52:55 Well, I think we actually might want to break this off into two parts because
00:52:55 --> 00:52:59 we're coming up on 53 minutes and there's still so much more to talk about.
00:52:59 --> 00:53:04 So I think we're going to wrap this one up, you guys, and we're going to literally
00:53:04 --> 00:53:09 just pick right back up next week. I hate cliffhangers as much as the next person, but like...
00:53:10 --> 00:53:14 We just, we got to keep it under an hour here. And that's, honestly,
00:53:14 --> 00:53:17 guys, that's how we get you to come back. Right, yeah.
00:53:17 --> 00:53:21 We've got to give you a little cliffhanger to get you to tune in next week.
00:53:21 --> 00:53:27 So we, and what we're going to do is we're going to sign off now,
00:53:27 --> 00:53:29 and then we're going to sign right back on.
00:53:29 --> 00:53:36 So for everybody who's listened this far, we have a lot more to go. So buckle in.
00:53:36 --> 00:53:39 We'll see you next week. In the meantime, keep surviving.
00:53:40 --> 00:53:45 Our conversation with Ange isn't over. Join us next week for part two of her
00:53:45 --> 00:53:49 incredible story when we talk about what it took to break free from the FLDS,
00:53:49 --> 00:53:52 unlearn a lifetime of fear and control,
00:53:52 --> 00:53:56 and begin building a life on her own terms. We'll see you next week.
00:53:57 --> 00:54:01 Thanks so much for listening and for being part of the Survivors community.
00:54:02 --> 00:54:05 No matter where you are in your story, you're not alone and you're definitely
00:54:05 --> 00:54:09 not broken. Healing takes time and it looks different for everyone.
00:54:10 --> 00:54:14 The fact that you're still here and still trying means you're already doing the hard work.
00:54:15 --> 00:54:19 If something in today's conversation resonated with you, please share it with
00:54:19 --> 00:54:20 someone who might need to hear it too.
00:54:21 --> 00:54:25 That's how we keep these conversations going and remind each other that there's always hope.
00:54:26 --> 00:54:29 And if you or someone you know is struggling, please remember,
00:54:29 --> 00:54:30 help is always out there.
00:54:30 --> 00:54:35 You can call or text 988 anytime to reach a trained crisis counselor like me.
00:54:35 --> 00:54:39 And for more mental health resources, tools, treatment options,
00:54:39 --> 00:54:42 and content to support your mental health, visit thehelphub.co.
00:54:43 --> 00:54:46 We're so grateful you're part of the Survivors family, and we'll be back next
00:54:46 --> 00:54:50 week with another honest conversation about life after the hardest things.
00:54:51 --> 00:54:55 Until then, take care of yourself and your people and keep surviving.