*WARNING: This podcast mentions suicide, the loss of a child & substance abuse and may be triggering.
Episode Summary
In Part 2 of our powerful conversation with suicide loss survivor and mental health advocate Alli Skrbek, we continue exploring what it means to live, parent, grieve, and heal after the loss of a child.
Just over a year ago, Alli's oldest son, Alex, died by suicide. In the aftermath of that unimaginable loss, Alli has become a passionate advocate for suicide prevention and mental health awareness, using her growing social media platform to break the silence around suicide, challenge stigma, and help others feel less alone.
In this deeply raw and honest conversation, Alli shares how grief has transformed her life, how she navigates the ongoing challenges of raising her three younger sons while carrying the weight of profound loss, and why open, authentic conversations about mental health can save lives.
Together, we discuss the impact of social media in creating connection and awareness, the unique challenges facing boys and men when it comes to mental health, and the subtle warning signs that families and loved ones should never ignore. Alli also speaks candidly about guilt, shame, judgment, and the misconceptions that often surround suicide loss—and why compassion, understanding, and education are so critical.
Most importantly, Alli reminds us that grief and love can coexist. That honoring someone's life doesn't mean moving on from them. And that even in the darkest moments, there can be purpose, connection, and hope.
So whether you're grieving a loss, supporting someone who is, or simply looking to better understand the realities of suicide and mental health, this conversation offers an important reminder: you're not alone and help is always out there.
Episode Sponsored by The HelpHUB™
Struggling with your mental health? Feeling lost, overwhelmed, or just alone? Well, you're not. Welcome to The HelpHUB™—your online destination for mental health resources, treatment options, content, and tools to help meet you exactly where you are in the moment. Visit TheHelpHUB.co to get started.
Takeaways
- How grief can transform us and reshape our purpose
- The role of social media in mental health advocacy
- Men's mental health and the pressures boys often face
- Recognizing warning signs of suicidal ideation
- Why honest conversations about mental health matter
- Parenting through profound grief
- Navigating guilt, shame, and societal misconceptions after suicide loss
- Keeping memories alive while moving forward
- Finding strength through family, community, and advocacy
Chapters
00:00 - Introduction and Background on Loss 03:05 - Transformation Through Grief 05:42 - The Power of Social Media Advocacy 08:37 - Navigating Negative Feedback 11:44 - Men's Mental Health Awareness 14:38 - Recognizing Warning Signs in Boys 17:34 - The Importance of Open Conversations 20:39 - Breaking the Stigma Around Suicide 22:39 - Navigating Grief and Parenting 25:00 - Keeping Memories Alive 27:53 - Understanding Guilt and Shame 33:27 - The Power of Advocacy 38:07 - Finding Strength in Family 40:27 - Misunderstandings of Grief
Mental Health Resources
- If you or someone you know is struggling, please call 988 for help.
- The Survivors Podcast Website – https://thesurvivors.net/
- National Domestic Violence Hotline – Call 1-800-799-SAFE (7223)
- Surviving: Finding Hope After Suicide Loss (Familius Books)
- The HelpHUB™ – Mental health resources, tools, and support networks – https://www.thehelphub.co/
Follow & Connect With Us
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See you next week! In the meantime, keep surviving.
00:00:00 --> 00:00:04 Hey friends, before we dive into this week's episode, just a heads up.
00:00:04 --> 00:00:08 Our podcast talks about suicide, sexual abuse, and other trauma,
00:00:09 --> 00:00:12 and some of what you hear may be triggering. So please listen with care.
00:00:13 --> 00:00:18 This is The Survivors, real stories, raw conversations, and the truth about
00:00:18 --> 00:00:21 what it means to keep going after the hardest things.
00:00:21 --> 00:00:24 We're so glad you're here. Let's keep surviving together. other.
00:00:26 --> 00:00:30 Before we start today's episode, we want to prepare you for a conversation that's
00:00:30 --> 00:00:32 as heartbreaking as it is important.
00:00:32 --> 00:00:35 Today, Allie Skarvik joins us to share the story of her son,
00:00:35 --> 00:00:41 Alex, her journey through every parent's worst nightmare, and the message she hopes will save lives.
00:00:41 --> 00:00:45 We also want to offer a gentle warning that this episode contains discussion
00:00:45 --> 00:00:47 of suicide loss and the death of a child.
00:00:48 --> 00:00:50 So if you're a parent who's experienced the loss of your child,
00:00:51 --> 00:00:53 This conversation might be especially trickering.
00:00:54 --> 00:00:57 So please take care of yourself as you listen and step away if you need to.
00:00:59 --> 00:01:04 Hey, friends. This week, we're welcoming back a very, very special guest,
00:01:04 --> 00:01:07 Allie Skarbek. We had you on last week.
00:01:07 --> 00:01:13 You gave us one of the most powerful episodes, I think, that we've recorded,
00:01:13 --> 00:01:15 in the last five seasons.
00:01:15 --> 00:01:20 And we had a long, long, very emotional conversation about you losing your son,
00:01:20 --> 00:01:22 Alex, to suicide a little over a year ago.
00:01:23 --> 00:01:26 You're back with us to kind of Continue that conversation where we left off.
00:01:26 --> 00:01:32 Talk about how you've been navigating life as a suicide law survivor and a mom. You have three sons.
00:01:33 --> 00:01:36 You're very much a vocal advocate now. And you're a creator.
00:01:36 --> 00:01:42 You're a content creator who is blowing my mind by using your platform to really
00:01:42 --> 00:01:48 share Alex's life and his story and to create awareness around suicide,
00:01:48 --> 00:01:51 both prevention and awareness.
00:01:51 --> 00:02:01 So in the last episode, you shared most of the story of who Alex was and how
00:02:02 --> 00:02:04 he was such an amazing brother and son.
00:02:04 --> 00:02:09 And he also had some mental health challenges and he also had some issues with,
00:02:10 --> 00:02:17 alcohol and drugs, which he was given, unfortunately, by some members of your extended family.
00:02:18 --> 00:02:23 And we talked a lot about his suicide. So today we're going to talk about what comes after for you.
00:02:23 --> 00:02:27 So welcome back to the pod. We are so, so glad that you're here.
00:02:27 --> 00:02:30 Thank you for having me. Absolutely.
00:02:31 --> 00:02:38 So let's talk about, I said a second ago that you have really kind of transformed
00:02:38 --> 00:02:42 your life into a life of advocacy right now. Would you say that's pretty accurate?
00:02:43 --> 00:02:45 Very accurate. Yeah. Yeah.
00:02:46 --> 00:02:50 You have some of the most raw and emotional content that I have ever seen.
00:02:50 --> 00:02:54 And as a result of that, in you just sharing your story the way that you have,
00:02:54 --> 00:02:58 your socials have exploded, especially on TikTok.
00:02:59 --> 00:03:03 How has your grief changed you as a person?
00:03:04 --> 00:03:09 It's in many ways, you know, the positive ways.
00:03:09 --> 00:03:15 It's definitely made me more gentle and aware of my words because words matter.
00:03:15 --> 00:03:19 It's made me, I've always been empathetic, an empathetic mom,
00:03:19 --> 00:03:20 but it's amplified that.
00:03:21 --> 00:03:27 But it's made me more aware of the everyday person walking. You know,
00:03:27 --> 00:03:33 when you lose someone close to you, in my case, my son, you almost see the pain
00:03:33 --> 00:03:36 written on people's faces. For me, at least now I do.
00:03:36 --> 00:03:40 I can just see it because I know what it feels like. And I just want to hug
00:03:40 --> 00:03:43 them. And I have done that in public. Just walked up and said,
00:03:43 --> 00:03:45 do you need a hug? Can I hug you?
00:03:46 --> 00:03:51 So it's definitely given me a voice that I never thought that I would have before.
00:03:52 --> 00:03:58 I just, you know, I lived a long life of people pleasing and tolerating so much.
00:03:58 --> 00:04:00 You know, and then eventually you have your breakdown moment.
00:04:00 --> 00:04:02 You're like, I can't do this anymore.
00:04:02 --> 00:04:06 But losing Alex, what more, you know, there's nothing else on this planet that
00:04:06 --> 00:04:08 could hurt me more than losing my child.
00:04:09 --> 00:04:14 So now, it is what it is. You are going to get the most authentic, real version of me.
00:04:14 --> 00:04:18 And I don't want anyone in my life that's not authentic and real anymore.
00:04:18 --> 00:04:22 I want to have the hard conversations. I want to have the conversations where
00:04:22 --> 00:04:26 we get below the surface and really get to know the people around us because
00:04:26 --> 00:04:28 there's such an amazing story behind every face.
00:04:29 --> 00:04:35 Yeah. And it's given me a power and a strength that I never knew that I had inside of me.
00:04:36 --> 00:04:39 And it's hard. It's hard to maneuver that, I'll be honest.
00:04:40 --> 00:04:43 There's days where I just go, oh, this is too much. And I'm like,
00:04:43 --> 00:04:45 no, it's not too much. You're not too much, Allie.
00:04:45 --> 00:04:48 You've been told that your whole life. You are not too much.
00:04:50 --> 00:04:55 But yeah, I would say those are the big things for the positive sides of things.
00:04:56 --> 00:05:03 How long after Alex passed, did you decide to get on social media and start sharing your story?
00:05:03 --> 00:05:09 How much, months, weeks? I think about five to seven weeks after.
00:05:10 --> 00:05:15 I'd never had a TikTok before. My Facebook's very private. I hardly have any
00:05:15 --> 00:05:18 friends on it. And one day I just woke up and said.
00:05:20 --> 00:05:25 This needs to be shared. We need to talk about this. Had anyone talked when
00:05:25 --> 00:05:27 my son was struggling, he could still be here.
00:05:27 --> 00:05:30 Why are we avoiding these conversations?
00:05:30 --> 00:05:32 And I just went for it.
00:05:33 --> 00:05:37 Can you talk about that video? I think I know which video it was.
00:05:37 --> 00:05:39 Was it the Christmas video with the boys?
00:05:40 --> 00:05:42 That was one of the very first. One of the very first. Yeah.
00:05:42 --> 00:05:46 So what happened? Can you walk us through kind of you shared it?
00:05:47 --> 00:05:51 And then was it like an instant catching fire? What happened?
00:05:52 --> 00:05:57 Yeah, it was. So I didn't know how TikTok worked. And I posted it because I
00:05:57 --> 00:05:59 wanted people to see that.
00:05:59 --> 00:06:04 Here's my son who we brought home for Christmas and seemed to be doing so well,
00:06:04 --> 00:06:06 but he wasn't. He was struggling.
00:06:06 --> 00:06:11 And I don't even think him as a young man understood the depths of what he was going through.
00:06:12 --> 00:06:16 And I wanted to show the world this is normal. This is my son playing with his
00:06:16 --> 00:06:19 brothers happy at Christmas. And three months later, he was gone.
00:06:19 --> 00:06:23 And it just exploded. And my girlfriend, who has a TikTok, called me and she
00:06:23 --> 00:06:26 said, Allie, oh my gosh, there's so many views on your video.
00:06:26 --> 00:06:29 I said, how do you see the views? What are you talking about?
00:06:29 --> 00:06:32 So she kind of walks me down through and she goes, they're blowing up.
00:06:32 --> 00:06:35 I was like, oh, so is that like a good thing? She goes, yes.
00:06:36 --> 00:06:40 Okay. And then shortly after I had Newsweek reach out to me,
00:06:41 --> 00:06:46 People Magazine, and then other news outlets were taking the story and sharing it.
00:06:46 --> 00:06:52 The crisis text line reached out to me and we are part of their every 43 second video on YouTube.
00:06:53 --> 00:06:58 And little by little, these, you know, big outlets, it was drawing attention to the big outlets.
00:06:59 --> 00:07:04 And I said, okay, I've got something here. If me sharing my son's story saves
00:07:04 --> 00:07:08 just one life, I'm doing something in honor and something good.
00:07:09 --> 00:07:12 That's it. That's it. That's why we do what we do. Same reason.
00:07:13 --> 00:07:17 Yeah. Yeah. You know, and I know when I was on browsing TikTok,
00:07:18 --> 00:07:21 I was feeling connected, too, by a lot of these other moms and dads that had
00:07:21 --> 00:07:23 lost a child to suicide, their posts.
00:07:25 --> 00:07:27 But I noticed that there was a lot of hold back. And I thought,
00:07:27 --> 00:07:31 if we are going to prevent suicides, I have to talk about it all.
00:07:31 --> 00:07:33 Even the hard stuff. Even the
00:07:33 --> 00:07:37 ones where people are going to come on and try and guilt me or shame me.
00:07:38 --> 00:07:41 If you listen, if you're watching this, you're learning. So I was willing to
00:07:41 --> 00:07:46 come on and take all positive and all negative because the hard stuff needs
00:07:46 --> 00:07:49 to be talked about. You're right. It has to.
00:07:50 --> 00:07:57 I've gotten so protective of you. I feel like I'm on, obviously, your platforms a lot.
00:07:57 --> 00:08:04 And I do have to say, you handle the good and the bad with such unbelievable grace, in my opinion.
00:08:05 --> 00:08:08 I mean, you're really out here trying to be honest, trying to be transparent,
00:08:08 --> 00:08:13 trying to really kind of elevate the conversation to the level that it should
00:08:13 --> 00:08:16 be at, which is, like you said, just open, honest, raw.
00:08:17 --> 00:08:22 And I, every once in a while when you'll share a really hateful,
00:08:22 --> 00:08:27 insensitive comment, I'm like really protective now of you.
00:08:27 --> 00:08:32 And I'm like, wait a minute, let me at them. Because it's obviously one of the
00:08:32 --> 00:08:37 known downsides to social media is that people get falsely empowered.
00:08:37 --> 00:08:40 They think they know more than the people who are going through whatever the
00:08:40 --> 00:08:46 thing is and they're not afraid to say something hurtful or unkind and i just
00:08:46 --> 00:08:50 have to give you a lot of credit and i haven't actually said this to you so i'm saying to you now,
00:08:51 --> 00:08:55 that i'm really impressed with the way that you have handled that,
00:08:56 --> 00:09:01 side of things up to now you deserve a lot of credit for it i appreciate that.
00:09:01 --> 00:09:05 You know, Alex, when he drank, he could get mean.
00:09:06 --> 00:09:10 And it's something I remind myself of when I see a harsh comment,
00:09:10 --> 00:09:15 come on, my son wasn't a mean person. He was extremely loving and extremely kind.
00:09:16 --> 00:09:20 But sometimes the circumstances in people's lives can create...
00:09:21 --> 00:09:26 Negativity that spews out so i i really try to take myself back and step back
00:09:26 --> 00:09:30 and go okay this comet stung sometimes it hurts to hear these,
00:09:31 --> 00:09:35 but you're here and you're watching the story and you're reading it and maybe
00:09:35 --> 00:09:40 you'll use this to help yourself or someone in need but i also understand that.
00:09:41 --> 00:09:47 It has to come from a place of pain to want to right to want to hurt someone
00:09:47 --> 00:09:49 else has to come from a place of pain.
00:09:49 --> 00:09:54 Because I know when I first lost Alex, those first initial weeks were brutal.
00:09:54 --> 00:09:59 I mean, I was, even my own family, I was screaming at, you said this to him
00:09:59 --> 00:10:03 one time, you hurt him. And it came from a place of pain.
00:10:04 --> 00:10:06 So I try and separate myself from him.
00:10:07 --> 00:10:10 Yeah, I think that's a smart, it's a very smart thing to do.
00:10:10 --> 00:10:15 And it's really just an evolved thing to do because,
00:10:16 --> 00:10:21 not everybody stops long enough to recognize that these comments and these attitudes
00:10:21 --> 00:10:26 come from a place of pain, like you said, inside someone else.
00:10:26 --> 00:10:29 So you do deserve a lot of credit for the way you handle it.
00:10:29 --> 00:10:34 Some of them come from a place of they're angry for my son's situation too.
00:10:34 --> 00:10:38 And without knowing the whole story, they might just get one clip and go and
00:10:38 --> 00:10:40 think that they have the answers.
00:10:41 --> 00:10:45 I'm glad you're angry. I'm glad this upsets you, too, because it upsets me,
00:10:45 --> 00:10:49 too. And maybe now you'll know what to do in a mental health crisis,
00:10:49 --> 00:10:50 and you won't ignore someone's screams.
00:10:51 --> 00:10:55 You'll reach for support. You'll reach for advocacy, and you will be kinder.
00:10:56 --> 00:10:59 But, you know, a lot of people have to go through something hard to understand it.
00:11:01 --> 00:11:03 And I wish, I hope that doesn't happen to others, but...
00:11:04 --> 00:11:10 Well, you have to know that everything that you've put out there is reaching
00:11:10 --> 00:11:15 the people who either need to be educated or who are struggling with,
00:11:15 --> 00:11:20 maybe ideation or people who are struggling with the pain of being survivors,
00:11:21 --> 00:11:22 like you are, like we are.
00:11:23 --> 00:11:30 And what you're doing, the way that you're opening up the conversation to include
00:11:30 --> 00:11:36 everybody and every viewpoint is, I think, transformative. And it's what needs to be happening.
00:11:37 --> 00:11:41 And I really appreciate that it's happening for you and with you.
00:11:41 --> 00:11:46 One thing I want to take the opportunity to say is that we're recording this,
00:11:46 --> 00:11:50 and this will be aired during Men's Mental Health Awareness Month. It's June.
00:11:51 --> 00:11:57 And I think that this is such an unbelievably powerful angle through which to
00:11:57 --> 00:12:03 have this conversation, like lens through which to have it because we're talking
00:12:03 --> 00:12:06 about your son who was a young man he's 22 years old so he was a man,
00:12:07 --> 00:12:13 and he had a lot of mental health issues and you also have three boys and a husband and,
00:12:14 --> 00:12:20 it's so important to be directing so much of this kind of conversation at them,
00:12:21 --> 00:12:26 to say it doesn't matter how you were raised i'm talking about people who are
00:12:26 --> 00:12:29 like our generation and older, like boomers, like it doesn't matter if you were
00:12:29 --> 00:12:33 raised to believe that you couldn't show your emotions, that you couldn't cry,
00:12:33 --> 00:12:34 you couldn't be vulnerable.
00:12:34 --> 00:12:40 You can. Unlearn what you've learned and rebuild that belief system.
00:12:41 --> 00:12:46 So I think it's just so powerful that we're having this conversation during
00:12:46 --> 00:12:48 Men's Mental Health Awareness Month. Is there something that you.
00:12:49 --> 00:12:59 Would really want to talk to other, either men, dads, or parents of boys right
00:12:59 --> 00:13:02 now? Would you want to talk to them directly? What would you want to say to them?
00:13:03 --> 00:13:07 To parents of boys, something I have noticed and I missed. You know,
00:13:07 --> 00:13:10 Alex was my first son. They don't come with a manual. No.
00:13:11 --> 00:13:16 And I was raised with brothers, but this wasn't something I was trained with either.
00:13:16 --> 00:13:20 Watch behavior. The behavior shifts were what I, looking back,
00:13:20 --> 00:13:24 noticed, but did not recognize them as warning signs.
00:13:24 --> 00:13:30 Watch the acting out, impulsivity, increased absence abuse, withdrawal,
00:13:31 --> 00:13:35 getting agitated, mistrusting others, thinking the world's out to get them.
00:13:35 --> 00:13:41 Those are really big warning signs in men and boys. Ask the hard questions.
00:13:41 --> 00:13:46 Listen to them without judgment. it. You know, my teenager grieves very different
00:13:46 --> 00:13:52 than my nine-year-old, and he's very introverted, and I just, I watch his behavior.
00:13:52 --> 00:13:55 I do watch him because I'm worried about depression with him,
00:13:56 --> 00:14:01 and something I've noticed is when he's having a hard day, he tends to lash
00:14:01 --> 00:14:04 out on his little brother more, and he doesn't want to.
00:14:04 --> 00:14:08 So, you know, after everyone's in bed, I'll take that alone time with him and
00:14:08 --> 00:14:10 say, hey, buddy, I noticed this. What's going on today?
00:14:11 --> 00:14:14 And he'll say, I don't know I don't know how to say it I don't know how to feel
00:14:14 --> 00:14:17 it mom I said okay well this is what I'm noticing,
00:14:17 --> 00:14:21 do you feel agitated today and he'll say yeah I said okay do you need some extra
00:14:21 --> 00:14:27 time with me just watch boys tend to act out versus being bet being good talking
00:14:27 --> 00:14:32 with their feelings like women to the other men out there you can be kind.
00:14:32 --> 00:14:35 And gentle and.
00:14:36 --> 00:14:40 And express your emotions and still be loved. My husband is a combat marine
00:14:40 --> 00:14:43 vet, and he is the biggest teddy bear on the planet.
00:14:44 --> 00:14:46 He has learned that it's safe to talk.
00:14:47 --> 00:14:51 I'll be honest, I drill it. Like, talk to me. What is going on?
00:14:52 --> 00:14:59 But he is so gentle and so kind, and you can have that strength and also be
00:14:59 --> 00:15:02 okay with being soft and expressing yourself.
00:15:02 --> 00:15:07 If you're in an environment where people are not willing to recognize and they
00:15:07 --> 00:15:10 want to shut you down, find a new friend circle, find a new group,
00:15:10 --> 00:15:11 because there are people out
00:15:11 --> 00:15:15 there that love men that know how to express their emotions or show them.
00:15:16 --> 00:15:19 I love that you said that. I think that's such a powerful reminder that,
00:15:20 --> 00:15:27 sometimes we stay put where we are in our little orbits, even though maybe we've
00:15:27 --> 00:15:32 either outgrown them or people have proven themselves to maybe be different
00:15:32 --> 00:15:35 than we are or different than we thought they were.
00:15:35 --> 00:15:41 And maybe something becomes toxic, but there are roots that run deep and you're
00:15:41 --> 00:15:45 really afraid to kind of move on. but.
00:15:46 --> 00:15:50 I think at the end of the day, we do really have to just find our people.
00:15:50 --> 00:15:53 And I don't know about you. Well, I do know about you because you just said it a few minutes ago.
00:15:54 --> 00:15:58 And Natasha, I think you're probably the same way, that none of us,
00:15:58 --> 00:16:02 the three of us are in this horrible club that nobody wants to be a part of.
00:16:03 --> 00:16:08 And yet, some of the most beautiful things that have happened in my life,
00:16:08 --> 00:16:12 like finding Natasha for me, that wouldn't have happened.
00:16:12 --> 00:16:15 Getting connected with you wouldn't have happened. Doing the work that I've
00:16:15 --> 00:16:18 been doing in the world for the last several years wouldn't have happened.
00:16:18 --> 00:16:26 So while it absolutely sucks to be in this community of people who have lost people this way,
00:16:27 --> 00:16:30 I feel like some of the most authentic and beautiful relationships that I have
00:16:30 --> 00:16:34 in this world now are right here in this space.
00:16:34 --> 00:16:37 And I'm just really grateful for that. I agree.
00:16:39 --> 00:16:45 I couldn't agree more. I've come across the kindest, most just sincere people
00:16:45 --> 00:16:49 that you otherwise never would have been brought into this realm together.
00:16:49 --> 00:16:55 Just this little bubble that unfortunately is growing at an alarming rate.
00:16:55 --> 00:17:00 And that is just so concerning. Lisa, you've shared some stats before about,
00:17:00 --> 00:17:05 you know, how it's younger and younger children and it's, it's more,
00:17:06 --> 00:17:08 more male centered, it seems like. And I, I.
00:17:10 --> 00:17:13 Having lost five brothers to suicide, it's shocking.
00:17:14 --> 00:17:21 And because men don't dare say I'm struggling because society has told them
00:17:21 --> 00:17:24 that they have to be the strong ones and they have to hold it together.
00:17:25 --> 00:17:29 I was listening to a podcast and he was a soldier and he was talking about losing
00:17:29 --> 00:17:32 some of his comrades to suicide.
00:17:32 --> 00:17:38 And he said, the one thing that I will listen when I hear a comrade say brother
00:17:38 --> 00:17:43 I'm just so tired he said that's a dead giveaway that they're close,
00:17:44 --> 00:17:49 when they talk about how tired they are and so that's one thing that I have
00:17:49 --> 00:17:55 learned to listen for you know if somebody is struggling I just I encourage everybody to to learn,
00:17:56 --> 00:18:01 to listen to the small things if you know that somebody has a history of mental health struggles,
00:18:02 --> 00:18:03 yeah that's so important.
00:18:03 --> 00:18:09 And it doesn't take much for us to hold that kind of space and to just dial
00:18:09 --> 00:18:11 in a little bit deeper and pay a little bit more attention.
00:18:12 --> 00:18:15 There are signs to be seen if we're paying attention.
00:18:16 --> 00:18:22 And the more we know and educate ourselves and others, they know how to look for those signs.
00:18:22 --> 00:18:26 Alex said something similar, Natasha, in February. So he took his life the night
00:18:26 --> 00:18:30 of March 31st. And in February, I'd received a text from him.
00:18:30 --> 00:18:35 And he said, Mom, I want to go back to being a little kid. Adult life is so hard. I'm tired.
00:18:36 --> 00:18:38 And I did not know.
00:18:39 --> 00:18:45 I didn't know I'm tired meant I'm tired of living. To me, it was young adult
00:18:45 --> 00:18:47 life is hard, buddy. I know. I'm so sorry.
00:18:47 --> 00:18:49 You'll get over this. You'll get through this. You're going to,
00:18:50 --> 00:18:55 instead of just listening and saying, you know, I was offering solution and
00:18:55 --> 00:18:56 he just needed me to hear him.
00:18:57 --> 00:19:02 And I didn't know being him telling me I'm so tired was a warning sign. Now I do.
00:19:03 --> 00:19:06 You can't know what you don't know. You know, it was like, I mean,
00:19:06 --> 00:19:07 similar and yet different.
00:19:08 --> 00:19:13 My own dad, we had no idea that my father had any mental illness at all,
00:19:13 --> 00:19:17 that he was masking his depression, that he was on the edge.
00:19:17 --> 00:19:19 There were no conversations. The only thing he did at the very,
00:19:19 --> 00:19:24 very end that gave my mother just even the tiniest signal that he just was overwhelmed
00:19:24 --> 00:19:29 because he basically had a full-time job and then he was running his family
00:19:29 --> 00:19:30 business, which was another full-time job.
00:19:31 --> 00:19:36 So he just seemed like somebody who was kind of exasperated by that and just tired from that.
00:19:37 --> 00:19:40 But he told my mother he was going to start seeing a therapist,
00:19:40 --> 00:19:43 and he did for maybe an appointment or two, but it was too little too late.
00:19:43 --> 00:19:51 But there was no sign and no signal, and that's a scary part of all of this.
00:19:51 --> 00:19:56 It's that you can't fix what you don't know is broken, which is why we have
00:19:56 --> 00:20:00 to change the conversation, which is why people have to be doing exactly what
00:20:00 --> 00:20:04 you're doing and what we try to do, which is to just talk the talk.
00:20:04 --> 00:20:06 Like, forget about censorship.
00:20:06 --> 00:20:13 That's why it pisses me off so much that platforms like TikTok are actually
00:20:13 --> 00:20:15 censoring the conversations,
00:20:16 --> 00:20:20 and the language that we need to be using to the key demographic,
00:20:20 --> 00:20:21 which is the TikTok generation.
00:20:22 --> 00:20:26 So, I mean, hopefully they'll catch up and hopefully they'll figure it out.
00:20:28 --> 00:20:31 Well, it's still such a taboo subject. You know, we moved here,
00:20:31 --> 00:20:37 and, you know, Missouri is the Bible Belt, and a lot of Baptists—,
00:20:38 --> 00:20:43 And the minute they hear suicide, they're automatically, you know,
00:20:43 --> 00:20:45 they die, they say the wrong things.
00:20:47 --> 00:20:51 And they're automatically judging and making assumptions without even asking.
00:20:51 --> 00:20:53 Now I just kind of word vomit to people.
00:20:54 --> 00:20:57 I'm not ashamed to say it. My son was struggling and this could happen to your
00:20:57 --> 00:21:00 family too. You're not immune to this. I'm glad you say that.
00:21:02 --> 00:21:04 For those of us that have been struck really hard and suddenly,
00:21:05 --> 00:21:08 we have to like, it's, sometimes you have to just,
00:21:09 --> 00:21:13 go straight for it you know and when you're talking about it or something i
00:21:13 --> 00:21:15 just the other day somebody told me that was morbid,
00:21:15 --> 00:21:21 to be talking i was like how is that morbid to be talking about death it's a fact of life right right,
00:21:22 --> 00:21:25 well people are terrified people are terrified of it happening to them or their
00:21:25 --> 00:21:30 family and they're terrified of saying the wrong thing and so a lot of people inadvertently do
00:21:30 --> 00:21:32 or they don't say anything at all or they don't show up at all,
00:21:32 --> 00:21:37 or those are the people who cut bait and run because they don't know that they
00:21:37 --> 00:21:38 don't have to say anything.
00:21:38 --> 00:21:44 They don't have to have the answers or that right line to write in a card.
00:21:44 --> 00:21:45 It's just about like, just show up.
00:21:45 --> 00:21:50 Just say to somebody, just be like, look, I know this is catastrophic for you.
00:21:50 --> 00:21:54 I know that there are no words, nothing I can say, nothing I can do, but I'm here.
00:21:55 --> 00:21:58 I'm here. Do you want to talk? What do you need?
00:21:59 --> 00:22:04 So one thing that if I Even as much death experience as I have,
00:22:04 --> 00:22:06 sometimes I don't even know what to say.
00:22:07 --> 00:22:13 And so if I know nothing else to say is other than my heart is with you, leave it at that.
00:22:14 --> 00:22:16 Yep. And that's all you can say sometimes.
00:22:17 --> 00:22:20 And sometimes that can be enough. It really can be.
00:22:21 --> 00:22:24 So let's kind of switch gears a tiny bit.
00:22:25 --> 00:22:30 You're still raising three boys. You have three young guys at home. Uh-huh.
00:22:30 --> 00:22:35 How do you balance now surviving, because that's what you're doing,
00:22:36 --> 00:22:40 surviving for yourself and still showing up for them?
00:22:41 --> 00:22:45 Lots of therapy. Good. Great. Lots of therapy. Yeah.
00:22:46 --> 00:22:51 It's not easy, but including them in the grief instead of isolating them from
00:22:51 --> 00:22:56 it has really helped our family be okay with watching each other grieve.
00:22:57 --> 00:23:02 I do tend to take more time to myself now. It's something I've learned to be okay with.
00:23:03 --> 00:23:06 And, you know, I told my husband, I just need 20 minutes to go grieve.
00:23:07 --> 00:23:10 I need to sit in my thoughts. I need to decompress.
00:23:10 --> 00:23:14 But it's not easy. There's this constant fear of losing another child.
00:23:14 --> 00:23:19 And after a sibling loses a sibling to suicide, they're at a three times higher
00:23:19 --> 00:23:22 risk of taking their lives themselves.
00:23:22 --> 00:23:26 So it's that constant, like, how do I still let them be boys,
00:23:26 --> 00:23:33 young boys, take the risks that boys take, kids take, and not bubble them and
00:23:33 --> 00:23:35 make their brother suicide their identity?
00:23:35 --> 00:23:40 But it is the finding that balance is extremely hard. I have to talk myself down often.
00:23:41 --> 00:23:45 And, you know, if I hear a door slam, it startles me and I have to run go check.
00:23:45 --> 00:23:50 I just, you never unhear the gun going off when you're a child.
00:23:50 --> 00:23:51 You just never unhear that.
00:23:53 --> 00:23:56 Hey, it's Lisa Sugarman, co-host of the Survivors and founder of The Help Hub.
00:23:57 --> 00:24:01 If you're listening right now and you're not okay, if you're feeling overwhelmed,
00:24:01 --> 00:24:06 stuck, or like you're carrying more than you can handle, please know you don't
00:24:06 --> 00:24:07 have to go through it alone.
00:24:07 --> 00:24:14 You can call or text 988 or chat online at 988lifeline.org to connect with trained
00:24:14 --> 00:24:17 counselors like me who are there to listen and support you in the moment.
00:24:18 --> 00:24:23 Reaching out is a brave first step and you owe it to yourself because your life
00:24:23 --> 00:24:28 matters your story matters and help is always just three numbers away.
00:24:30 --> 00:24:33 It's not easy. You know, I've had a lot of comments that say,
00:24:33 --> 00:24:36 I don't know how you're doing this. I'm still struggling a year later.
00:24:37 --> 00:24:38 And it's like, I am struggling.
00:24:39 --> 00:24:43 I'm deeply struggling. There's many nights like, you know, I just need to take time and cry.
00:24:44 --> 00:24:52 But it's hard. How do you and your husband keep Alex present in your home and your family now?
00:24:53 --> 00:24:56 Well, we never stop talking about him. He's the topic of conversation daily
00:24:56 --> 00:24:59 as if he's still here. I love that. I love that.
00:25:00 --> 00:25:05 You know we celebrate his birthday we honor him at christmas in our own way holidays.
00:25:07 --> 00:25:11 And, you know, for us, not everybody believes this, and that's okay,
00:25:11 --> 00:25:16 but I do. I do believe that my son is still with me in different form.
00:25:16 --> 00:25:19 It doesn't make it easier that, you know, I want him back in this form.
00:25:20 --> 00:25:23 But I talk to my kids about that, and I say, guys, he is still with us.
00:25:23 --> 00:25:26 He's always going to be with us. We just didn't erase him.
00:25:27 --> 00:25:31 Yeah i love that that's natasha i don't know about you and and how it's been
00:25:31 --> 00:25:37 with with you and you lost obviously all your brothers and you lost your dad,
00:25:37 --> 00:25:39 do you do the same thing you've talked about,
00:25:40 --> 00:25:44 all of them with your family with your kids yeah so my favorite way to honor
00:25:45 --> 00:25:49 my because two of them passed away many years before my children were born and
00:25:49 --> 00:25:54 so i love to share funny memories that I had with them or funny things that they did.
00:25:55 --> 00:25:59 And they love it. They absolutely love to hear those stories.
00:25:59 --> 00:26:03 Corey passed away the week before Thanksgiving. So we actually did set a place
00:26:03 --> 00:26:05 for him at the Thanksgiving table.
00:26:05 --> 00:26:10 I have a picture of my dad on my night. It's my favorite, like two pictures
00:26:10 --> 00:26:14 of him from like his mid forties, which was like the height of what I just remember of him.
00:26:15 --> 00:26:18 And he's on my nightstand. And so I see him every night before I go to bed.
00:26:18 --> 00:26:23 I don't know why for some reason I have a hard time having pictures of my brothers
00:26:23 --> 00:26:25 around. I think it's because it's just too painful.
00:26:25 --> 00:26:32 I've talked about this before where I forget a lot that I've lost them or that many.
00:26:32 --> 00:26:38 And so I think just having the pictures is just a constant reminder that I can't
00:26:38 --> 00:26:43 have, you know, I'll remember them when I can and remember them in a positive way.
00:26:43 --> 00:26:48 I can relate to that. I catch myself avoiding looking at Alex's pictures often,
00:26:49 --> 00:26:50 because I'll go spiraling.
00:26:51 --> 00:26:54 It's hard. Yeah. Yeah.
00:26:55 --> 00:26:59 Speaking of spiraling, we talked a little bit for a second or two before we
00:26:59 --> 00:27:02 hit record about things that we were going to talk about today.
00:27:03 --> 00:27:06 And one of those things was the guilt factor.
00:27:07 --> 00:27:12 And you had some really, what I think are profound things to say about that.
00:27:12 --> 00:27:17 You did not want to shy away from having that conversation because it exists everywhere. Uh-huh.
00:27:18 --> 00:27:24 So, so many suicide loss survivors carry guilt or carry what ifs and blame and
00:27:24 --> 00:27:28 things like that. And you've talked pretty openly about that in a lot of the
00:27:28 --> 00:27:29 content that I've seen and heard.
00:27:30 --> 00:27:32 Has that been part of your experience?
00:27:33 --> 00:27:37 Oh, yeah. I mean, I think guilt is inevitable raising children,
00:27:37 --> 00:27:42 whether they pass or don't pass. But since losing him and something my therapist
00:27:42 --> 00:27:46 taught me is that guilt is a healthy emotion. It's a normal emotion.
00:27:46 --> 00:27:50 And with guilt, you can grow. With shame, you can't. It will knock you down.
00:27:50 --> 00:27:52 So I've learned to separate the two.
00:27:53 --> 00:27:57 I'm not ashamed of my son taking his life, but I was ashamed at first.
00:27:57 --> 00:28:01 I was embarrassed to talk about it. One of my children took their lives.
00:28:02 --> 00:28:07 And as time went on I thought I am not going to be ashamed of my son because
00:28:07 --> 00:28:10 I wasn't ashamed of him when he was alive I wasn't ashamed of his addictions,
00:28:11 --> 00:28:15 it didn't define him he was a beautiful person but the guilt yeah I mean the
00:28:15 --> 00:28:21 what ifs had I just sent him that text that night the one night I did not text
00:28:21 --> 00:28:22 him good night lovey thinking of you
00:28:23 --> 00:28:26 I was tired with the baby and I went to bed The.
00:28:27 --> 00:28:30 Questioning, did I do the right things when he was growing up?
00:28:30 --> 00:28:32 Was he in enough therapy?
00:28:32 --> 00:28:36 You know, he was in therapy, but was he in enough? Did I ask the right questions?
00:28:37 --> 00:28:41 You know, those questions come up and I'm learning to work through them,
00:28:41 --> 00:28:42 but they're still there.
00:28:44 --> 00:28:48 And it would be inevitable that they would be.
00:28:48 --> 00:28:54 It would be impossible to not have those things touch your life and touch your
00:28:54 --> 00:28:56 heart in this kind of a situation.
00:28:56 --> 00:29:00 And all you can do, all any of us can do, I think when they hit,
00:29:00 --> 00:29:04 which they do, is to sit with it. We don't have a choice.
00:29:05 --> 00:29:08 It's sitting with it and kind of letting it move through us.
00:29:08 --> 00:29:11 I mean, I actually, we've talked about this on the pod a little bit.
00:29:11 --> 00:29:15 I didn't really have a lot of guilt. I was 10 years old. We didn't know my dad was...
00:29:16 --> 00:29:21 Mentally ill and depressed. And so I really didn't have that guilt factor at
00:29:21 --> 00:29:26 all until I had an interesting conversation with my therapist who said,
00:29:26 --> 00:29:28 tell me about the story again.
00:29:28 --> 00:29:31 Tell me about the day again. And my father had stayed home that day.
00:29:31 --> 00:29:33 He wasn't feeling well. He was recovering from some surgery and he was going
00:29:33 --> 00:29:37 to meet my mom for lunch. And he slept downstairs in our family room.
00:29:38 --> 00:29:40 And I was going to go down and sneak down before my camp bus came.
00:29:41 --> 00:29:44 And I was going to climb me to bed wake him up give him a kiss and go and i
00:29:44 --> 00:29:48 got to the bottom step and my mom kind of leaned over the banister and,
00:29:49 --> 00:29:52 and said no no no honey god he was up late you'll see when you get home and
00:29:52 --> 00:29:56 so i i didn't and i saw his shadow and i saw his arm over his head,
00:29:57 --> 00:30:02 the way he always used to sleep and i didn't go down and it wasn't until like
00:30:02 --> 00:30:07 47 years later after having replayed that a million times that all of a sudden
00:30:07 --> 00:30:09 I started feeling guilt like, wait a second.
00:30:11 --> 00:30:17 What if what he did and my father had taken pills and what if I had gone down
00:30:17 --> 00:30:20 there and what if he was still alive and what if he could have been saved?
00:30:20 --> 00:30:23 You talk about a spiral and that's like I'm a 57-year-old woman having those
00:30:23 --> 00:30:25 thoughts for the first time.
00:30:25 --> 00:30:32 So guilt is a crazy thing and it can hit us in any way at any time and we have
00:30:32 --> 00:30:35 to just let it move through us. It's the only thing we can do.
00:30:36 --> 00:30:41 I'm really glad, though, Allie, that you have learned to differentiate between guilt and shame.
00:30:41 --> 00:30:46 Brene Brown has talked about that in length, the difference of the two and how
00:30:46 --> 00:30:51 shame is really what gets—and I would love for her—,
00:30:52 --> 00:30:57 to dive deeper into the shame aspect accompanied by suicide.
00:30:58 --> 00:31:03 If i could get a hold of her some way and and say look i need you to do the
00:31:03 --> 00:31:05 amazing research that you do,
00:31:05 --> 00:31:11 and and to dive into this deeper and see if we can somehow pinpoint something
00:31:11 --> 00:31:14 to give us a better look at what people are dealing with,
00:31:15 --> 00:31:20 and to give us some insight and see if we can better help people that are struggling. I mean, I know.
00:31:21 --> 00:31:26 I've survived three attempts myself. There's no medical reason I should be here.
00:31:26 --> 00:31:33 For me, it wasn't necessarily shame. It was, I just didn't want to, I was just tired.
00:31:33 --> 00:31:38 I was really tired of fighting to live and convincing my brain that I deserved to live.
00:31:39 --> 00:31:43 So that's why I said what I said when you hear somebody say that they're tired.
00:31:44 --> 00:31:47 Yeah. Pay attention, folks, because that's when it gets real. Yeah.
00:31:49 --> 00:31:52 Well, Renee, if you're listening, Natasha would appreciate it if you would call
00:31:52 --> 00:31:54 her and have a conversation.
00:31:55 --> 00:32:03 We need you. 911. Your advocacy and your, we talked about this earlier,
00:32:03 --> 00:32:05 but I want to kind of touch it again.
00:32:05 --> 00:32:11 Your advocacy and your presence online has reached millions of people.
00:32:11 --> 00:32:16 It is amazing the reach that your voice has had.
00:32:16 --> 00:32:22 Did you ever imagine that your grief over alex would go this far no no not at
00:32:22 --> 00:32:27 all i am such an introverted person i mean it's been a week and my husband's
00:32:27 --> 00:32:30 like our friday's like don't you want to get out of the house i'm like no.
00:32:31 --> 00:32:38 Yeah we did yeah but i am so introverted and i've always been so for me to get
00:32:38 --> 00:32:46 out onto social media was such a huge leap of faith in a sense I had no idea.
00:32:46 --> 00:32:50 I just, and I'm so glad I did because the amount of messages I have received,
00:32:51 --> 00:32:56 from other grieving parents or people that are walking with suicidal ideation and,
00:32:57 --> 00:33:01 I'm so glad that I, Alex's story is helping. You know, it's also a little intimidating
00:33:01 --> 00:33:04 at times because I'm a horrible public speaker.
00:33:05 --> 00:33:10 No, you're not. Honestly, you, you seems like a professional.
00:33:10 --> 00:33:11 You've been doing it for a long time.
00:33:11 --> 00:33:15 I would agree. So I would, I would say, you know, what is that imposter syndrome?
00:33:15 --> 00:33:18 Go ahead and put that right away. Tuck it away. Okay.
00:33:20 --> 00:33:22 My hands are just rubbed raw.
00:33:24 --> 00:33:27 Yeah, it gets, it gets better with time. I promise you that.
00:33:27 --> 00:33:33 I'm not even a year in to me sharing my story publicly. So you're doing great.
00:33:33 --> 00:33:39 I am curious, where do you see yourself in the future? Where do you want to take this?
00:33:40 --> 00:33:45 I don't know. My therapist, I've known him a long time. He keeps trying to push
00:33:45 --> 00:33:47 me into becoming a therapist.
00:33:48 --> 00:33:54 I don't know if that's my calling. I don't know. I definitely want to finish my book.
00:33:54 --> 00:34:00 There's just a lot in there that my therapist and I are talking about this because
00:34:00 --> 00:34:04 there's a lot in there with me and my sexual abuse as a child by family.
00:34:04 --> 00:34:10 And it's hard to put that out in the world while my parents are still alive
00:34:10 --> 00:34:12 and they could read that. And I don't want to hurt anybody.
00:34:14 --> 00:34:17 At the same time. So I definitely want to write my book.
00:34:18 --> 00:34:22 I just don't know yet. That's okay. That's okay. I was just curious,
00:34:23 --> 00:34:26 wherever it takes you, I know it'll be somewhere amazing.
00:34:27 --> 00:34:32 You know, as we all, in this club, we support each other and we love each other
00:34:32 --> 00:34:37 and cheer each other on because this is how we change the conversation.
00:34:37 --> 00:34:42 We change the dynamic is by, you know continuing to get out there as hard as
00:34:42 --> 00:34:49 it is and it is I just can't even talk about sometimes that's why I've switched a lot of my content,
00:34:50 --> 00:34:55 recently has become more static because putting my face out there even though
00:34:55 --> 00:35:01 I know that they perform better it's hard to put your face out there day after day after day,
00:35:02 --> 00:35:05 it is and you know people I think forget that we're human living this human
00:35:05 --> 00:35:08 experience and this extreme loss and.
00:35:09 --> 00:35:14 Even though I feel like I have pretty tough skin, I still have feelings.
00:35:14 --> 00:35:19 It still hurts sometimes to get accused of things I didn't do or the judgment.
00:35:19 --> 00:35:25 It can be painful. And I think I would have to be inhuman to not feel that. Yeah.
00:35:26 --> 00:35:30 Do you ever get to a point on some of your posts where they're clearly taking
00:35:30 --> 00:35:33 off, where you just stop reading the comments because it just gets overwhelming?
00:35:34 --> 00:35:36 I have to. Yeah, me too.
00:35:36 --> 00:35:40 Especially when it seems like there's a lot more. obviously the positive ones
00:35:40 --> 00:35:45 are encouraging but the negative ones after so many it's just like a death by
00:35:45 --> 00:35:50 a thousand cuts and there's just so much that your soul can handle in a,
00:35:50 --> 00:35:54 few days or however you know how quickly it spreads,
00:35:55 --> 00:35:59 it it's definitely hard there's some that i do just delete i'm just like i'm
00:35:59 --> 00:36:02 you're not allowed to put this on my page because i have other grieving families
00:36:02 --> 00:36:06 here and i'm not gonna let them see this good for you not just affecting me
00:36:06 --> 00:36:08 you're affecting all of us here,
00:36:08 --> 00:36:13 and i've always been just a very protective person and i would say since losing
00:36:13 --> 00:36:14 alex the grieving community,
00:36:15 --> 00:36:17 they're in my bubble and you do not hurt them,
00:36:18 --> 00:36:24 yeah stay off they are off limits yeah well you are in our bubble and we are
00:36:24 --> 00:36:27 now your protectors and we're not letting anybody hurt you so natasha will take
00:36:27 --> 00:36:29 the night shift i will take the day shift.
00:36:32 --> 00:36:33 So let me ask you this,
00:36:35 --> 00:36:39 What keeps you going on the days that feel absolutely impossible?
00:36:40 --> 00:36:43 My children. Mm-hmm. Spoken like a true mom.
00:36:44 --> 00:36:48 I battled a lot of depression, losing Alex, had an attempt myself.
00:36:49 --> 00:36:52 I just, in the beginning, thought, how did I fail so bad?
00:36:52 --> 00:36:57 And that was the beginning when I didn't understand the separation between shame and guilt.
00:36:58 --> 00:37:02 And I didn't fail him. Alex had so much love and so much support,
00:37:02 --> 00:37:05 but I had to find that again in myself. But I remember sitting with my husband,
00:37:06 --> 00:37:12 and just crying and saying, I don't know how parents do this if it was their only child.
00:37:12 --> 00:37:16 Because the one thing that is getting me through day in and day out is making
00:37:16 --> 00:37:18 sure my boys are healing and they're okay.
00:37:20 --> 00:37:24 I don't know how parents do it when it's an only child. I've had a lot of comments,
00:37:25 --> 00:37:27 with that. I just think, oh, my gosh.
00:37:27 --> 00:37:33 Not that it's hard to lose a child regardless, but they are what keeps me going. Yeah.
00:37:34 --> 00:37:37 Just knowing what I know of you, I had a funny feeling that was going to be
00:37:37 --> 00:37:41 your answer, but I can imagine that's any parent's answer.
00:37:42 --> 00:37:47 I love being a mom. I have loved being a mom since I had Alex at 19 years old.
00:37:49 --> 00:37:53 I absolutely love it. I have a lot of friends that over the years that would
00:37:53 --> 00:37:57 just say, oh, I probably wouldn't have been a mom or I don't enjoy this. I'm like, I do.
00:37:58 --> 00:38:02 I always have just enjoyed all of it. Do they drive me crazy at times?
00:38:03 --> 00:38:08 1%. Yeah, well, then you're pretty much inside my brain right now.
00:38:08 --> 00:38:12 I mean, I only have two daughters, but there's nothing else in the world I'd
00:38:12 --> 00:38:13 rather be than their mom.
00:38:14 --> 00:38:19 And even though, you know, I only got 22 years with Alex, I would do it all over again.
00:38:20 --> 00:38:24 I got 22 years and it wasn't enough.
00:38:25 --> 00:38:29 I'm glad I had those 22 years. I'm glad you have them too. What a beautiful
00:38:29 --> 00:38:32 thing to say. and I feel it I feel that coming from you,
00:38:34 --> 00:38:41 So as we kind of start to wrap the conversation, we like to close with three
00:38:41 --> 00:38:45 questions that are more or less the same that we ask to everybody.
00:38:45 --> 00:38:50 So the first question is, what do you think personally is something that people
00:38:50 --> 00:38:57 misunderstand about surviving a loss like this? They misunderstand the depths
00:38:57 --> 00:38:59 and how long grief lasts.
00:38:59 --> 00:39:03 I think I'll grieve Alex the rest of my life. Absolutely.
00:39:03 --> 00:39:07 I think we'll all grieve our people the rest of our lives. That's just the way
00:39:07 --> 00:39:13 grief is, unfortunately. We learn to integrate it. We learn to walk alongside it.
00:39:14 --> 00:39:17 It doesn't stop, unfortunately, as badly as we wish it would.
00:39:18 --> 00:39:24 So, second question. What is one thing that's helped you survive?
00:39:24 --> 00:39:26 I know you said your kids, the boys.
00:39:27 --> 00:39:30 What's something else that's helped to survive when you absolutely thought you
00:39:30 --> 00:39:31 could not survive another day.
00:39:32 --> 00:39:35 Prayer has been a big one for me. Love that.
00:39:36 --> 00:39:42 And the last question, if someone's listening right now and they're struggling,
00:39:42 --> 00:39:49 they're silently struggling, either struggling with their own ideation or they're
00:39:49 --> 00:39:53 struggling trying to cope with the suicide of somebody that they love,
00:39:53 --> 00:39:56 what would you want to say directly to them right now?
00:39:57 --> 00:40:00 Envision yourself as the ocean.
00:40:01 --> 00:40:06 The sun always shines after the storm. Ride the waves, feel them,
00:40:06 --> 00:40:08 do not ignore those feelings.
00:40:09 --> 00:40:14 And then let the wave soften. Life is constantly moving. What you're feeling
00:40:14 --> 00:40:16 right now may not be what you're feeling tomorrow.
00:40:17 --> 00:40:22 And give yourself grace. You're a human experiencing human emotions.
00:40:23 --> 00:40:26 That's beautiful. Could not have said that any better.
00:40:28 --> 00:40:32 That was a powerful way to end this conversation. Allie, thank you,
00:40:32 --> 00:40:38 thank you, thank you for just trusting us with your story, for letting us get
00:40:38 --> 00:40:40 to know Alex. I feel like I know him so much better.
00:40:41 --> 00:40:43 Is it too premature to say I love him? I love Alex.
00:40:44 --> 00:40:48 Conversations like this are saving lives. And we all know that.
00:40:48 --> 00:40:51 We don't see it most of the time because we're in our little,
00:40:52 --> 00:40:55 you know, our little square boxes on screen. So we don't often see and feel
00:40:55 --> 00:41:00 who is hearing us and seeing us. But these conversations are reaching people. I believe it.
00:41:01 --> 00:41:04 I believe it in my bones and whether they're struggling themselves or,
00:41:04 --> 00:41:06 you know, they're struggling and they're greeting somebody that they love.
00:41:06 --> 00:41:10 So please, please, please follow our friend Allie on TikTok.
00:41:10 --> 00:41:17 Her handle is alexessky, and her content is honestly some of the most important
00:41:17 --> 00:41:22 kind. So please give her a follow and let her know you're out there.
00:41:22 --> 00:41:27 Thanks for listening, friends. Allie, we love you, and we've got our arms around
00:41:27 --> 00:41:30 you, and we will be back here next week.
00:41:31 --> 00:41:34 In the meantime, keep surviving, friends. Have a beautiful day.
00:41:35 --> 00:41:39 Thanks so much for listening and for being part of the Survivors community.
00:41:39 --> 00:41:43 No matter where you are in your story, you're not alone, and you're definitely
00:41:43 --> 00:41:47 not broken. Healing takes time, and it looks different for everyone.
00:41:48 --> 00:41:52 The fact that you're still here and still trying means you're already doing the hard work.
00:41:53 --> 00:41:57 If something in today's conversation resonated with you, please share it with
00:41:57 --> 00:41:58 someone who might need to hear it too.
00:41:59 --> 00:42:03 That's how we keep these conversations going and remind each other that there's always hope.
00:42:04 --> 00:42:07 And if you or someone you know is struggling, please remember,
00:42:07 --> 00:42:08 help is always out there.
00:42:08 --> 00:42:13 You can call or text 988 anytime to reach a trained crisis counselor like me.
00:42:13 --> 00:42:17 And for more mental health resources, tools, treatment options,
00:42:17 --> 00:42:20 and content to support your mental health, visit thehelphub.co.
00:42:21 --> 00:42:24 We're so grateful you're part of the Survivors family, and we'll be back next
00:42:24 --> 00:42:28 week with another honest conversation about life after the hardest things.
00:42:28 --> 00:42:33 Until then, take care of yourself and your people and keep surviving.